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2:00 AM
Oh god, you're right. It really does work that way. How terrible.
@Downgoat seriously why can't you use json or even better yaml or xml
@quartata json is shit
I thought we already established this
INI is not very popular as a format or many good reasons
@Downgoat I was not aware of this.
@Downgoat > or even better yaml
2:03 AM
Let me fix that
@Downgoat I was doing it in ES5
@quartata I don't know of others, but if the one I just found is any indication... yikes.
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ah, okay. I'm using babel so you can ES6 away
@Downgoat oh yay
did you modify the one on c9?
what is the best way to clamp a value to 0, 255 in Pyth?
You realize that you're making this way too difficult for yourself right. I guarantee you there is an INI node package
2:05 AM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ yeah
I made it ES6
Really though yaml is like a better ini
I actually think Downgoat ignored me, lmao
wait really? XD
I'm 2 points away from a new privilege.
Why reinvent the wheel? That's all I'm sayin
2:07 AM
It's fun
That means I have to go and actually contribute something.
@quartata I don't like yaml syntax
@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ or accept an answer
@quartata INI has existed for a very long time
He's talking about the parser
2:08 AM
I like that idea better.
@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ Usually when people need two points for something they just mention it in chat and for some reason it just... happens.
@Downgoat YAML basically is INI so I have no idea how you could not like the syntax but ok
What about XML?
@Geobits ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯ I'm at 5003 right now and I have no idea what you're talking about.
@quartata hahahahahahaha
that was a joke right?
(1) quartata does not like INI. (2) YAML is basically INI (3) quartata basically does not like YAML. Q.E.:P
2:09 AM
No....? XML is great for serializing things
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ The reason I don't like INI is because it makes it difficult to cluster things cleanly. YAML makes that very explicit
also it just screams windows
@quartata you mean the "no empty lines" rule?
This is the first time I've had access to site analytics.
@quartata even if I were to switch to like yaml, I don't think @CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ wants to rewrite a new parser
Apparently, we get a lot of traffic from reddit.
@Downgoat yes, I really don't.
2:11 AM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ No I mean like nested objects
@quartata for what we're doing, I don't think we'll need nested objects
Even Microsoft started recommending not using INI files, some time in the 90s.
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ they are empty lines allowed in INI?
@Downgoat I'm allowing them, but the spec says there shouldn't be
@Downgoat There are node modules for both yaml and ini
2:12 AM
@quartata but cheesecloth's ini has cheesecloth specific features
@Geobits PHP
What are you doing anyways I thought you were serializing things
@Quill I actually liked the way PHP used = for pushing
2:13 AM
@quartata nom, im storing configs
> [ "downgoat", "upgoat" ]
@Quill That's... pretty much what I said :P
\o/ \o/ \o/
do objects work?
2:14 AM
nope they don't
can I haz example?
@Downgoat what special features do you need
goat[downgoat]=upside down
@quartata please just don't try to convert him. I'm afraid you'll succeed and I've already spent too much time on this
also I guess ini is ok for that
@Downgoat okay, will do
2:15 AM
@Geobits I didn't see you say that
@quartata objects?
screw good practice, I'm using regex
code explodes
@Quill I said ugly syntax. I didn't explicitly say PHP, but in hindsight it is implied >_>
2:16 AM
lol the quartata & downgoat dialogue in the transcript
Some people, when presented with a problem think "I know, I'll use regex! Now they have two problems."
@Quill I don't see what's so lolable
@Geobits PHP is implied in all programming insults :p
Nah... gotta let JS in on the fun too ;)
2:18 AM
@Downgoat Well that's fine. Just realize that this has transcended beyond INI into your own config format which is exponentially more effort then just slapping yaml/json/something people already know how to use and calling it a day
@quartata I'm just adding [] it's not going to require learning a new format or people not understanding it
It's working! :D
goat[downgoat]=upside down
Object { downgoat: "upside down", chatgoat: "idiot" }
but quoted properties don't work yet
\o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
OHHH I forgot escapes
@Downgoat I would have required comments to understand the array format (objects were fine though)
2:20 AM
I quite clearly didn't understand it at first ;)
What behavior should pretzel have for interpreting an array (of numbers) as a (singular) number? For reference, the inverse is array(n) = [1..n]
it should throw an error
golfing lang
what the fuck are you doing that you need to cast a array to a number
@Cyoce length
2:21 AM
Figure out which reduce is the most common? Go with that.
Oh, length is good too.
@Downgoat No! Errors are a crutch for the weak. An error is simply the mark of a lazy developer who didn't want to think up a behavior.
thar's what perl does when going from list to scalar context
@Cyoce huh, that's what the people who made JS typecasing said...
@Cyoce sqrt("notanerror")
@Geobits it should sum the sqrts of teh code points :D
2:22 AM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Close...
@Cyoce Length is the only thing that really makes sense imo :p maybe first or last element
@Cyoce sqrt the sum of the code points?
@Cyoce It could also yield a number that's the concatenation of the results
I think that's what jolf does
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ do comments work in the INI Parser?
@Downgoat yes, as ;
or they should anyhow
2:27 AM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ It will iterate over the code points. So it will be a string with codepoints equal to the square root of the original code points.
Actually I'm not sure.
Either A. the string interpreted as base 256, square rooted, turned back into a string, or B. what I just said
For golfing languages it'd make sense to not have errors. For an actual lang, you'll want to be careful of pitchforks at your house.
@Sp3000 this is most definitely a golfing language :)
@Sp3000 RIP JS devs, 2016, assaulted by pitchfork-wielding programmers.
2:30 AM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ aren't you a dragon, why didn't you breathe fire on all of them?
@Downgoat Oh, I did. Not until it was too late though :(
Maybe that's what happened. JS was originally intended to be a golfing language, and it just got out of control. It would explain a lot.
I got a few python programmers >:D
> if we burn, you burn with us
2:31 AM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ :D
@Cyoce o_o I cannot burn.
@Cyoce ಠ_ಠ dragons are immune to fire
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I said actual lang, right? (in all seriousness, surely there's something that throws errors in JS, apart from user-defined ones)
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ pythons are really snakes, which are really rip-off dragons.
Q: Minimize Those Ones

codeputerYour task is to build a natural number using the fewest number of ones and only the operators + or -. For example, the number seven can be written 1+1+1+1+1+1+1=7, but it can also be written as 11-1-1-1-1=7. The first one uses 7 ones, while the latter only uses 6. Your task is to return the minim...

2:32 AM
So it makes sense.
@Sp3000 yes, of course.
@Cyoce yes. now you can see why I dislike python.
@Sp3000 of course! Try doing {} / {}
I always thought of it the other way round. Dragons being pretentious snakes, that is.
@Downgoat That's just NaN :/
2:33 AM
{} / {}
SyntaxError: unterminated regular expression literal
@Sp3000 no it isn't
It's interpreted as "block , begin regex"
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Language Idea: Dragon. It's python, but lines of code can "fly" to new places and can annihilate other functions with their fire breath.
@Doorknob do you know what irc daemons support svsnick?
@Cyoce Like Vigil, but with more destruction?
2:34 AM
> {} / {}
@Cyoce which browser, etc?
@quartata I have no idea what that is so
(Chrome here fyi)
I'm on firefox
2:34 AM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ node.
But I don't mean syntax errors btw
@Cyoce As long as they don't call themselves dragonistas it'll be less insufferable at least :P
@Doorknob I thought you were good at irc
InvalidCharacterError: String contains an invalid character
2:35 AM
There we go
@quartata You were mistaken
I only use IRC for #nethack and #lojban
Does anyone know what IRC daemons support SVSNICK?
2:35 AM
Interpreted as division, highlighted as regex
A+, chrome
Firefox is at least consistent -- no syntax highlighting, and is a regex :P
@ArtofCode I think we need to change our ircd but i'm not sure to what...
Object { r: "a", =: "3" }
@Downgoat It works now
my bot will definitely need svsnick though
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ :D \o/
2:37 AM
okay so how do I commit in my name?
commit from your computer
make sure to git pull origin master first though
I'll check and see if ircd-hybrid supports it
@Downgoat you can just git pull it defaults to origin and current branch
@quartata usually, but not always
I don't have git on my CPU, remember?
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ you should get git
@quartata I tried.
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ brew install git?
plz I g2g soon XD
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ do you use GH Desktop?
2:40 AM
just do git clone git... wait a second
@Downgoat no, but I may have it
:o I think the GH desktop is auto-installing git
@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ btw what works?
Helkas challenge.
Output is slightly off though. =(
@Downgoat I have the git shell. now what
2:48 AM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ go to the folder with the files, and do ls -a. Does it have a folder named .git?
@Downgoat with which files?
@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ How different are your images?
Only slightly.
Lemme upload one of them
Ok. So I'm writing a BF interpreter. Let's say I have a variable dp that determines what index of my cells array I'm pointing at. < goes to {dp--}, > to {dp++; cells.push(0)}. Right? Now, if I switched it so < is {cells.unshift(0)} and > is {dp--}, would that still do the same thing?
2:50 AM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ did you clone/download Cheesecloth from github?
@Cyoce sounds right
@Downgoat how do I do that?
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ if not do git clone https://github.com/cheddar-lang/Cheesecloth.git
Oh, the difference is bigger than I thought.
2:51 AM
I can use GH windows >_<
@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ Interesting...
@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ If that's when offset is 0 then something is wrong. The top and bottom of the image are barely offset and should still look blue
Yeah, something's clearly wrong.
Note that you should be adding to the hue that's already there, not overwriting it
Hue is supposed to be a float in [0, 360.0] right?
2:53 AM
Yes. Though depending on your graphics library it might be from 0 to 1 or 0 to 2pi or something
@Downgoat So I make a pull request, right?
or do I sync
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ you should be able to just push
okay cool
so I have to edit from my computer and not on c9?
or what
if (!ERROR)
    spawn('rm', ['-rf', '/'])
I should totally add this
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ you can edit from C9 but I don't think the commits will be logged by you
okay I pressed sync but it isn't syncing
2:56 AM
what error is it?
@Downgoat none. what commands should I use with git? I just got it
@Helka Don't have time to answer now, but this might make a "cool looking test image":
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ so cd to the cloned directory (the Cheesecloth dir)
not of the file? just the dir?
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ you can't cd to a file?
2:59 AM
like, where should I cd
/Cheesecloth, or /Cheesecloth/utils?
once you've updated the files. Run: git add -A then git commit -am "<commit message>"
then, do git push and that should be it
\o/ \o/
3:02 AM
2 cycles
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ it's bleeding?!? O_o
@HelkaHomba What does mine actually look like?
@Downgoat I chomped it. :P
@Doorknob Hmm?
3:03 AM
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Aaahhhh
@Doorknob With 2 cycles?
@HelkaHomba Yeah
Well, know that that's done, I gotta go do HW. :/
3:05 AM
@HelkaHomba Hmm. I was hoping the sky wouldn't be so hue-y, so the tower would stand out more :/
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ :D
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ bai
@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ must be Doorknobs evil twin from a parallel universe
3:13 AM
Yeah definitely that.
Man, I wish I had an evil twin...
Has anyone here used Vala before? I've heard it of but never tried it
@HelkaHomba you're not allowed to take in the offset in radians?
@orlp No (sorry, I know that's annoying but I'd prefer not to edit it anymore)
@HelkaHomba would've been nice if you had disallowed built-in color conversion though :(
3:26 AM
rainbow kitty mea culpa
The keyboard layout's almost there! Only 16 characters to go!
ಠ_ಠ you cannot have leading zeros on numbers in JavaScript
e.g. 0777 is an invalid number
that would be 0o777
> 0777
@HelkaHomba I did it without built-ins
@Cyoce it works in browsers but babel throws an error
3:33 AM
A: Rainbowlify An Image

orlpPyth, 86 bytes, full program =N.tE7=Z*6*.n0cEl.n'zMmhtS[0255ss*VG.>+Lc-1.tH1 3[.tH1Kc.tH0@3 2_K)d)3.wmmgk~-NZd'z Pyth doesn't have built-in color space conversions - this is the real deal. Takes input in the following format on stdin: input_filename.png offset cycles The output image is wr...

Quick! Someone find me a unicode character that is not already used in pretzel and is not idiotic (like 2) and makes some degree of sense for a doubling function (x -> 2*x)! The prize is a free pretzel!
@Cyoce oh, I want a free pretzel!
@Cyoce 𝕩
@Cyoce »
maybe 𝑥
or x̿ (x with double bar)
3:37 AM
@Downgoat lol double-x. very clever. +1
@Cyoce pretzel pls
@Downgoat I'm poor so it won't be overnight delivery... I hope stale pretzel is ok for you.
@HelkaHomba can we output floating point RGB tuples?
@Cyoce :(
e.g. [1.5, 2, 103.253]
or do we have to truncate to integer RGB values?
3:39 AM
@Cyoce Not double arrow » double bar ∥ double cross ‡? :(
@orlp if the image format is ok with that then that sounds ok
@HelkaHomba there is no image format
I'm writing a function that takes the raw pixels as an array
@Marv No. I mean the raw bytes of the image (in your chosen common format, say ppm) can be piped direct to stdout. — Helka Homba 2 hours ago
@HelkaHomba sorry, they're already used for things
@HelkaHomba that is irrelevant, I'm not using stdout
you said you can write a function
but it still needs to output or save the image file content
3:42 AM
that seems unnecessarily restrictive
and limits the challenge only to languages (or libraries for those languages) that handle image I/O
why can't I just write a function that takes an array of pixel values, a width, a height, offset and cycles, and returns an array of pixel values that are rainbowified?
I'm writing my answer in Python, and if I can't do that then more than 50% of my answer is just image format I/O
that seems pointless to me
@QPaysTaxes That's fine. You could return the image data as a string instead of printing it to stdout
@QPaysTaxes no it's not
what are you talking about
to clarify: I'm talking about an array of RGB pixel values
not other color spaces
@orlp This issue comes up in lots of challenges. Allowing people to choose their most optimally convenient i/o formats can get confusing and contentious. The idea here is that at least a common image file format can be easily opened in an image viewer
@HelkaHomba and I'm sure such a format exists that has HSV stored
that's not the point of the challenge
Hey I'm taking my first AP test tomorrow, any suggestions?
3:47 AM
@HelkaHomba if more than 50% of the answer is I/O (in a non-esoteric language) for every answer, the I/O provided in the challenge is bad
@GamrCorps Get plastered first
I argue that an array of RGB pixel values is a perfectly fine I/O format for your challenge
I'm ok with providing a helper program that read/writes images to test the answer
@AlexA. Had to Google that one, never heard that terminology before
but including that in the score is silly
@QPaysTaxes Already planning on it :P
3:48 AM
@GamrCorps Oh really? Interesting.
@orlp It hardly applies to just my challenge. Go take this up on meta with all graphical-output/image-processing questions
TIL I'm glad I didn't take any AP classes :P
(Not that I would have put as much effort as Q is describing into them anyway >_>)
Well the hardest part will be not using calculus on an algebra based physics exam
@HelkaHomba nah
I really can't be bothered
3:51 AM
The best part about knowing the calculus is that you can rederive the algebraic formulas if you forget them.
@QPaysTaxes 4/100?
My main problem would be that I would try to use calculus when there is a simple algebra way to do it, but it definitely helps to rederive stuff.
@QPaysTaxes 4/10 very misleading
@QPaysTaxes but I also did convince my parents to let me go to school late to get more rest and have time to eat more than half of a bowl of cereal for breakfast.
@Downgoat parseInt('0777') (you don't need the optional radix flag in modern JS) or Number('0777')

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