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12:00 AM
lol @EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ
DOWNGOATE
@mınxomaτ some of the ads are really strange
 
@Quill wut
 
0
Q: Output the first character at least ten thousand times in Lazy K

dspyzIn the fewest number of terms (application/parentheses are free), write a lazy K program that takes a single character of input and outputs it a fixed finite number of times which is at least ten thousand. Here's an interpreter you can use: http://lazy-k.appspot.com/

 
@Downgoat the bob email
 
@Quill where does it say that
 
12:03 AM
This could do with more votes/discussion
 
@Downgoat thanks
@Downgoat lol
 
It seems no one owns it
 
@trichoplax its a elephant with a heart up its nose for me
 
@Quill yeah, but I'm not going to purchase downgoat.com because I'm only downgoat on PPCG
 
@HelkaHomba I couldn't see the heart. Thanks for explaining. It all makes sense now.
 
12:08 AM
@trichoplax it better
 
elephants kinda look like giant gorillas.
with long noses
 
No hands...
 
@HelkaHomba It really doesn't...
 
@HelkaHomba that too
 
Zoomed right in it looks like this to me:
 
12:09 AM
@trichoplax ...except you
 
@Downgoat Tattoo?
 
@trichoplax are you on Edge?
 
@Downgoat No I'm fine thanks
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Hahaha. :P
 
12:10 AM
But seriously, I'm on Firefox
 
@El'endiaStarman :::p
 
🐐ofl
 
@trichoplax \o/
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ did you see the FOG program?
0
A: Hi, can you draw some odd art? Bye!

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ IʀᴋFuzzy Octo Guacamole, 58/2 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 32 byte-points "Hi, Hello!""Hello, bye!"%@0{25*!5[X2a]@}"+-+"X"| |"X"+-+" This code as-is prints Hi, Hello!. By changing the % to a space (), you get Hello, bye!. By changing the first @ to a space (), you get the list of odd numbers, starting with 5 a...

 
12:12 AM
thanks! :D
 
@HelkaHomba goat on floor laughing...?
 
FOG almost beats J!!!
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Since when did you become a spider and lose two eyes?
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ >_> y u have to golf 2 bytes on the J one... :(
@El'endiaStarman he didn't
He is a dragon, and they have 6 eyes.
 
12:13 AM
🐽 <- why does pig snout get it's own char?
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I'm wearing two pairs of glasses @El'endiaStarman
 
@HelkaHomba the same reason there isn't an avacad emoji yet
 
@HelkaHomba Where are you getting all these?? And do they have an inherent colour or are you setting that separately?
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ That was the other option I thought of. :P
 
12:14 AM
::P I took a pair off
 
@trichoplax I don't see it as having a color. That probably depends on the font.
 
@trichoplax they are in my android keyboard
🐢
 
@El'endiaStarman For me the elephant is grey, the goat is reddish brown, and the snout is shocking pink
@HelkaHomba So they aren't all monochrome. P.S. that's adorable
 
 
0
Q: On the Subject of Passwords

SpeedyNinjaRelated: On the Subject of Keypads In Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes, players are tasked with defusing bombs based on information from their "experts" (other people with a manual). Each bomb is made up of modules, one of which can be passwords, where the expert is given this list of possible p...

 
12:17 AM
 
@trichoplax 🆗🆒
 
@NewMainPosts that post looks like a great way to get on the NSA watchlist
 
@Quill everyone is on NSA watchlist
 
🔞byte
 
(removed)
 
12:24 AM
[removed]
 
UserScript idea: make removed messages say REDACTED
 
Mini challenge: print in order the first n positive decimal ints that contain the digit 9
@Quill no Dwight
 
@HelkaHomba examples pls
 
@HelkaHomba So, like 9, 19, 109, 1009, ...?
 
@El'endiaStarman yes but you forgot 29, 39, ..., 90, 91....
 
12:27 AM
Oh, I was interpreting "pos" as "position", which didn't really make sense but was sufficiently close to "length"... :P
 
@Downgoat n=4 -> 9 19 29 39
 
@HelkaHomba What a cheddar program to do that would probably look like: n->{for(c:=p:=0;p<n;(String::++c).contains(9)?print c:"")}
 
My Python is bad on mobile, but I'd imagine it'd be pretty easy with a generator
 
@Quill [].forEach.call(document.getElementsByClassName("deleted"),function(x){x.innerH‌​TML="(REDACTED)"})
Damn, I forgot how annoying JS is. I almost died writing that
 
:)
 
12:33 AM
@HelkaHomba Pytek: [n|'9' in str:n,n in \N][0..int:\input())
 
@quartata ಠ_ಠ -1 for not using bind operator
 
@Downgoat pind? oind?
 
@quartata doesn't work :(
 
It does for me
@Downgoat Isn't that an ES7 thing?
 
@quartata yeah, it is
but babel is a thing
 
12:34 AM
@quartata Array.from(documents.getElementById('deleted')).map(elem=>elem.innerHTML="(REDAC‌​TED)")
 
@Quill es6
I wouldn't have to do [].forEach.call otherwise
 
And the browsers are almost fully ES6 compliant. Safari has 100% ES6 support
 
@Quill you can use [...dsifuachsdualjsd] instead of Array.from(dsifuachsdualjsd)
 
My Chrome version doesn't support => at all
Then again I'm on Chrome 44
 
@Quill im on el capitain so i cant safari nightly ;_;
 
12:36 AM
@Downgoat darn, outgolfed and outgoated
 
Need more votes: strawpoll.me/10284434
 
well that got awfully serious fast
 
That was weird.
There we go
 
@trichoplax We could have a challenge to dynamically generate the meta bg and save SE thousands
 
12:41 AM
> fixes the long standing castling bug
I lost my shit, thanks @quartata :D
 
@HelkaHomba And add that to the thousands they've been saved since PPCG implemented their own site design...
 
@Quill hehe
 
@HelkaHomba do it
 
@trichoplax Maybe we can petition them to skip our real design and just send us the would-be designer's salary instead, weighted by rep
 
12:44 AM
@HelkaHomba Weighted by contribution to the userscript would probably be fairer, but I wouldn't complain at being paid in proportion to rep :)
(since my contribution to the userscript has been zero)
 
eww, then a goat would get it all
Sorry @Downgoat. Just my neighbor is a well-off goat and he lords it over me
 
@HelkaHomba ಠ_ಠ
 
@HelkaHomba pls no
 
1:00 AM
Or maybe all they could use all that money they save on designers to make lots and lots of PPCG swag
 
@Quill even better: they could takeaway from the CR swag budget to make PPCG swag :P
 
There's not an ongoing swag budget, they make more for one off events but those don't really exist outside of SO going to cons
 
@HelkaHomba There are well-off goats?
 
what should syntax for constructing a class be?
juicr:(avocad, thritee_minut)?
 
@Geobits Plenty of cans to chew on, long fluffy beards, no one scaping them, etc.
 
1:06 AM
Ah, so truly a goat among goats. Noted.
 
@HelkaHomba s/cans/tin cans/
we are not savages!
 
1:20 AM
@Downgoat s/tin/aluminium/
 
I don't like what you're implying with that, so I'm leaving.
5
 
@Geobits I am noticing you haven't left yet :P
 
1:40 AM
@Geobits Oh, you don't like the implication that you're thoughtful?
 
> I'm sorry, I can't come to chat right now. If you'd like to leave a message, please do so with a ping attached. I'll get back to you in the order you deserve.
 
Cheddar> juic_typ := "avocad"
Cheddar> juic_typ
"avocad"
\o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ I got assignment working in cheddar!!!!!
 
does 5 := 4 work?
 
@Downgoat turophile -.-
 
1:56 AM
@HelkaHomba ..........
@PhiNotPi that throws an error that 5 is not a reference
Cheddar>  5 := 4
T_REPL:ERROR - Left side of assignment is not a reference
 
Those are usually called lvalues
 
nah
 
k
 
@Downgoat :DDDD
DDDDD;
Cheddar:T_REPL..expr.exec> juic_typ := "avocad"
━━ Execution Instruction ━━
[ CheddarPropertyToken { Index: 8, _Tokens: [ [Object] ], Type: Symbol(Property) },
  CheddarTypedLiteral { Index: 20, _Tokens: [ [Object] ] },
  CheddarOperatorToken { Index: 11, _Tokens: [ ':=', Symbol(RTL Operator) ] } ]
━━ STDOUT ━━
━━ T:eval..EXEC ━━
━━ Implicit Output ━━
T_REPL:ERROR - `:=` has no behavior for types `nil` and `String`
Cheddar:T_REPL..expr.exec>
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ you need to update
 
1:59 AM
I just did.
 
oh wait, I forgot to push to GH
 
Like 30 seconds ago.
>_>
 
This probably sounds really weird, but is there a way to call id( on the current lambda in Python?
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ ok, pushed, but give it a minute for cache to update
 
okay, thanks.
 
2:01 AM
@quartata ...probably not? Why would you need to do that?
 
I figured
 
@quartata like from inside the lambda?
 
Yeah
 
@Downgoat :DDDDDDDDDD IS WORKEEEING
 
I'm 99.99% sure there's a better way though so
 
2:03 AM
And I am very proud of the script to install it. Makes life much easier.
 
I'll try something else
 
@quartata What you tryin to do?
 
Basically I have a function that returns a lambda that looks something like lambda foo: x(foo) or y(foo), but x might modify foo so if I backtrack to y I need to have the original foo
I was going to store it a dictionary with the keys being some unique identifier but I think I could do something better with a stack
 
I don't understand... I must be a foo
 
@Downgoat make print print nothing/newline if no argument?
 
2:06 AM
This is what happens whenever I envision a great way to do something with currying
 
...huh, interesting.
 
@quartata you can't do foo[:]?
 
@Maltysen I need them to modify the original foo though.
I was going to reassign the original state back to foo so something like
x(foo) or y(foo = magic_time_travel_function())
 
@quartata can you pass two args to the lambda?
 
@Maltysen Sure but I can't assign in a lambda
 
2:08 AM
like lambda foo, foo2isthesameasfoo
 
Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, I could do that.
 
I was thinking you could do y(foo, foo[:]).
Then you check for equality.
 
Can I do something like y(foo = x) in a lambda or does that count as an assignment?
 
Counts as a keyword argument.
 
Oh right. Pretend I put that in parens
anyways screw it I'll just use a real function #sideeffects
 
2:16 AM
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ cna't print doesn't woerk that way
 
Nevermind I just figured out a better way to do this
 
@Downgoat make it work that way
 
@quartata i figured it out
 
Unprintable object of class "Object" with literal value [object Object]
thanks js
 
@quartata lambda foo: (lambda foo1, foo2: x(foo1) or y(foo2))(foo,foo[:])
 
2:22 AM
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ it's not like it's hard to do print""
 
@Maltysen Don't bother I just made it so x and y peek and only pop if they succeed. No need to copy anything
It shouldn't be consuming anything if it fails anywys
 
My colleague just blasted me on bitbucket about using incorrect versioning in one of my open PRs... I was like "I just haven't pulled in latest yet" and he was like "oh".
 
halp, how reference variable
 
?
 
like how to make a variable copied by reference and not copied
like do i make a giant runtime hashmap and pass "pointers" to a value in that giant hashmap?
 
2:38 AM
How are you handling variables currently?
 
they are stored in a global scope hashmap in the form of var_name: var_val where var_val contains variable information along with the variable's actual value
(assuming the variable was declared in global scope)
 
Why can't you just assign var_val to the new key? That won't copy it in a sane language
 
> sane language
I'm using node, so :/
 
I think JS doesn't copy on assigning objects so
 
but for some reason that isn't working
Should an array make it's on scope? e.g.
> [a := "foo"]
> a
what should be the value of a?
 
2:43 AM
Don't even allow that syntax
 
what syntax? why?
 
Assignment inside of an array? shudders
 
javascript allows it
oh wait, that's never a good reason to do anything
ruby allows it
 
Assignments should not be allowed at expression level really except in lambdas
 
but like lots of languages allow is
 
2:45 AM
Yeah languges allow it but that is mostly because of C allowing it
just because languages let you do it doesn't mean it's good
 
why would it not be good?
@quartata ok, I've changed how I'll do it. I'll allow assignment within arrays but not creating new variables
variables will need to be defined like: var juic_typ := "avocad"
@MarsUltor do you want to help develop more tokenizing things for Cheddar?
\o/ \o/ I guess assignment marks the end of expressions! I guess I finished Cheddar's expressions!!!!!!!!!!
Should I require parens around the condition in an if?
 
3:02 AM
I tried to tell you not to allow passing by reference <_<
 
@Quill you're saying everything should be passed by copy?
 
value, yeah.
quartata knows more about pointers than I do though, if you have questions
 
Variables will be passed by value by default in Pytek, though there will be a way to explicitly pass by reference.
 
@El'endiaStarman that's probably the best way to do it imo. what's the syntax for passing by reference?
 
Uh, I don't know if we determined one yet. Lemme search the Pytek room.
 
3:06 AM
C style & and * works fine if you're not already using them
 
quartata suggested &, like x = &y means that x stores the pointer to y.
 
@Quill I'm already using & for binary AND and * for multipication
 
* in Pytek will be Python's splat, so that's not really an option. Well, actually, that could work. It's just an unary operator, and if the element being operated on is a reference, then...
 
@El'endiaStarman s/Python's splat/scatter op/
 
@Downgoat those are binary operators, the operators used for pointers are unary operators
 
3:09 AM
@Quill I know, I was joking
 
~glares intently
 
ಠ_ಠ
 
@El'endiaStarman is pytek a golfing language?
 
Nope.
Should be golfier than Python though. :P
 
Oooh, add another language to list of ones I need to try.
 
3:12 AM
@El'endiaStarman is pytek strictly typed? How will pytek do casting
 
I should do a GitHub repo with a fizz buzz in every language
 
I dunno how to do casfting for cheddar
@Quill already exists I think
 
@Downgoat goaty avocady pls??
 
@Downgoat yes but the objective isn't to collect them, it's more to have fun in a whole bunch of languages
 
3:14 AM
@Downgoat Remind me again what strictly typed means?
 
You have to define the type explicitly like int goats = 4
 
11
Q: What are the key aspects of a strongly typed language?

Chris SuttonWhat makes a language strongly typed? I'm looking for the most important aspects of a strongly typed language. Yesterday I asked if PowerShell was strongly typed, but no one could agree on the definition of "strongly-typed", so I'm looking to clarify the definition. Feel free to link to wikiped...

 
Strongly typed == strictly typed?
This is why I'm asking Downgoat. :P
 
@El'endiaStarman like will variables implicitly cast?
 
@Quill Optional in Pytek. If you don't specify a type, then it can be changed, a la Python. On the other hand, if you do specify a type, then it's restricted to that type.
@Downgoat In some cases.
For instance, since << is concatenation, "5" << 5 will cast the second 5 to string, and then concatenate. User-defined types will have to define these casts, if applicable and/or desired.
 
3:18 AM
How are you going to left shift?
 
^
 
@El'endiaStarman on a side note, that's what JavaScript's + does (cast the right value to the type of the left value)
 
@Quill Word operator. Something like bitshiftleft.
 
@El'endiaStarman no.
157
Q: Static/Dynamic vs Strong/Weak

Dan RevellI see these terms bandied around all over the place in programming and I have a vague notion of what they mean. A search shows me that such things have been asked all over stack overflow in fact. As far as I'm aware Static/Dynamic typing in languages is subtly different to Strong/Weak typing but ...

 
@El'endiaStarman okay
Wtf autocorrect tried to correct okay to moist
 
3:22 AM
That's not too bad, pretty close actually
Skip the m and you have an edit distance of 3 :P
 
That makes a distance of four
 
I mean, ignore the m and the rest are a total of 3 keys away on QWERTY, i.e. k->i, a->s, y->t are all 1
 
Oh, I thought you were talking about levenstein distance
 
3:41 AM
should constants be let or const?
 
I'd say const, because let isn't quite so immediately clear.
But y'know, I've made several design decisions for Pytek that have the same issue.
 
const
 
So really, it's about the trade-off between initial confusion and later usefulness.
 
Why is let useful later except for being shorter?
 
@MarsUltor does CheddarShuntingYard work with CheddarExpressionTokenAlphas?
 
3:46 AM
(I should probably clarify that what I mean by "later usefulness" is whether the functionality you're looking at now will help you better express ideas in code once you understand it.)
 
okay, I'm just using const
 
 
1 hour later…
5:14 AM
O_o only 11 people... I think that's the least amount of people I've seen in this room
 
just for that, I'm not talking in here.... oh wait
any C programmers in here?
 
@Quill kinda
 
@Downgoat If Alpha has isExpression set to true, it should
@Downgoat Okay? But I think it would be a lot easier if we left parsing/lexing to an actual performant lexer
 
@Downgoat how do I clear a char array of values
 
@Quill what do you mean? do you want to free it, or like set all the bits to zero
 
5:21 AM
@Quill Clear?
 
@MarsUltor what do you mean by that?
 
would I just need to set them all to \0?
 
@Quill you can just write over existing values really
 
@Downgoat I mean use something like Jison, and hope it's a lot faster
@Quill Pretty much
 
@Downgoat it's a dynamic length, so the next iteration gets old stuff past its length
 
5:22 AM
@MarsUltor oh, ok, yeah, I am working on a PCRE-binding for node, so you can use PCRE (?(DEFINE)) blocks to define lexers. That will make tokenizing a breeze
Jison doesn't give Cheddar the flexibility it needs for errors and all
 
But \0 is the end of string, buffer[0] = '\0'; works apparently
@Downgoat ?
Really?
 
I also don't have to time to refactor the entire tokenizer, as I want to get the language done, and then refactor parts of it
 
@Downgoat Not refactor
You just need to provide token definitions + an EBNF grammar for Jison
But that's not exactly easy unless you already had a spec in EBNF
@Downgoat Cheddar syntax is like JS, right? Or Java?
 
I wrote them in chomsky normal form not EBNF but I guess they are close enogh
it took me so many tried to spell chomsky right ._.
@MarsUltor Cheddar is like if swift and javascript had a baby
 
^ We should be able to extend that JS grammar
 
5:28 AM
@MarsUltor oh god
 
@Downgoat That's like the same length Rennet was
But it has plenty of whitespace
 
what happens if you run browserify on a console lib...
okay... I'll do this tomorrow I need sleep
 
so I just did a inclass code challenge in my C class
read in lines of chemical formulas like ClCh3 or whatever
and convert them to atomic weight
Which probably could be onelined in JS, but C is painful
 
@Downgoat Probably uses browser console
@Quill How?
 
just handling the strings mainly
 
5:37 AM
@Quill It's all input at once, right?
 
yeah
 
Wait, no parens, right?
Also, you're not given the weights in a C-readable format?
*no parens/plus in the formula
If you aren't given anything, just have isLowerCase, isUpperCase, isDigit, and read until another uppercase -> lookup the hash in a switch-case or something
 
@MarsUltor that's what I have
it works fine, I'm just not used to allocating and caring about memory <_<
 
@Quill You usually don't need to
Why do you need to allocate memory?
 
I don't actually think I need to allocate memory
yeah... I don't know why I was doing that <_<
 
5:47 AM
@Quill your website is broken
Blog tab always shows as active
 
6:21 AM
Halp how i do brush hardness on js canvas
 
6:39 AM
0
Q: How should challenge authors be rewarded for creating exemplary challenges?

MegoOver on Puzzling.SE, the community there has been discussing various ways to reward puzzle authors for creating exemplary puzzles. Given that we're like Puzzling.SE in that we're not a Q&A site, and that we've discussed increasing reputation gain/loss for challenge upvotes and downvotes, it seems...

 
 
1 hour later…
7:48 AM
Hello
 
@MarsUltor yeah, it's on my list to fix ;-;
 
@Quill How did that even happen
@Quill Also, TIL you're just 17
When I see job I automatically assume >20 for some reason
Also, are websockets the best way for continuous communication between server and client?
 
Depends on the type of continuous connection
@MarsUltor please don't hold it against me, I'm still cool <_<
@MarsUltor CSS sins, they're both Bootstrap headers
They just have a different class for colour scheme
 
0/10 bootstrap
bootstrap = jQuery for CSS
 
8:06 AM
Yeah, I know. It's also on my list to get rid of it, they force a very horrible quote and code block style as well as the footer... Goddamn is that footer ugly
 
I have a folder of JS stuff that I want to create a repo from because I need help, but then it's got horrible (CR would probably rate it -5/10) code quality
Also, everything in it is ~90% unfinished
Mainly, I'm not sure how many people 1. actually use JS, and 2. want to help
 
I think you tend to find if the repo and idea is quality then you draw people who are interested
 
> repo and idea is quality
?
 
Like if it was a really shit idea like finding your the nearest stop sign to your location
And as for the repo, some people are turned off repos where the contributors are assholes
There's quite a few JavaScript devs here, I'm willing to guess some of them would help out
 
Well, what is it about? Just "JS" is rather unspecific.
 
8:20 AM
@mınxomaτ It's a bunch of JS stuff
about a lot of different things
 
@MarsUltor if you'd seen the horrors I've seen on code review you wouldn't think that
 
@MarsUltor Then you should probably split it up into more sensible chunks.
 
Here, IDK where to split it @mınxomaτ
Warning: has prototype modification
Also, I overload non-constructor Array in one of the files (meaning Array(foo) doesn't work as expected)
 
Well, make a sane directory tree and edit the README to reflect what part does what, so anyone can jump to the code they want.
 
Sane directory tree?
@mınxomaτ ^
 
8:33 AM
yes
 
How could I do that?
 
Create directories with descriptive names that contain the relevant source files.
 
But the source files are mostly standalone
I'd basically be just putting one file in each directory
 
Then create an overview of what's what in the README.
 
8:51 AM
I had to login again just to start chatting on the PC for today. ಠ_ಠ at QtWeb.
 
Hodor
 
@MitchSchwartz Hodor hodor. Hodor hodor...
 

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