The Nineteenth Byte

El'endia Starman

3:01 AM

Why does it take so long for the 36 outlier to pop up?

somebody

?

as in why is the first outlier 36?

El'endia Starman

basically, yeah

somebody

idk

El'endia Starman

Also: is there a quick way to do multiple iterations at once?

somebody

apart from opening multiple windows?

El'endia Starman

3:04 AM

Haha, yes, I mean programmatically.

We don't know what n=66 yields yet.

somebody

no, orlp's seems to be the fastest

trichoplax

@El'endiaStarman I guess for patterns where there are all zeros to the right you can use the results from a shorter wire up until reaching the right hand edge. Then similarly for patterns where there are all zeros to the left of a given point.

El'endia Starman

I don't think that'll be a valid way to go about it. The pattern on the left side might end up interfering with what develops on the right side.

trichoplax

And even for runs of zero in the middle, but only for half the number of steps.

@El'endiaStarman I mean if after a certain point it is all zeros right up to the right hand edge

The speed of light will be one square per step, so anything left of the last 1 can't interfere

El'endia Starman

hmm

trichoplax

3:08 AM

Oh - apart from the immediately adjacent square, so it isn't as simple

No actually that doesn't apply. I think it should work.

PhiNotPi

36 is 2^2 * 3^3, and it has a weird (2^19-2)/3 thing

maybe 100 has a weird /5 thing

user2284570

@Dennis : I can’t see the purpose/title of the associated meta post.

El'endia Starman

@PhiNotPi Good hypothesis. A pity we can't easily test it. :P

unless....hmm

somebody

@El'endiaStarman can't you just run it?

Cyoce

ayy my first rankup since the update ¯\_( ͡ಠ ͜ʖ ͡ಠ)_/¯

El'endia Starman

3:12 AM

@somebody How many iterations do you think it'll be?

Cyoce

somebody

idk, 30m max?

El'endia Starman

As in, ~30 million for n=100? n=52 has over 134 million.

somebody

n=60 has ~2b

El'endia Starman

Yeah. n=100 might be closer to 30 billion.

somebody

3:15 AM

then you might need a day or so?

El'endia Starman

Which is far too long.

PhiNotPi

Perhaps, for even numbers, there is a lcm() involved

f(2a) = 2*lcm(a, 2^somenumber-1)

El'endia Starman

I actually wonder if we can modify Brent's cycle detection algorithm for this special case.

somebody

@PhiNotPi what about 4^2*1^2?

*2^2*1^2

Doorknob

Anyone have any experience with Google Domains?

Calvin's Hobbies

3:20 AM

Someday Google [any noun] will be a thing

Dennis

@user2284570 What meta post?

PhiNotPi

Google Aardvark

El'endia Starman

@Calvin'sHobbies Google Buzz was and no longer is a thing.

Eridan

Google Sarcoplasm

Calvin's Hobbies

I bet there's at least an A-Z full right now

somebody

3:23 AM

Google Stack Exchange, Google Facebook, Google Reddit and Google Twitter?

trichoplax

Google Google

El'endia Starman

Don't Google Google Google

^ 2020 PPCG question

Eridan

I would very much like to have a pet Google Aardvark

somebody

*Google Alphabet

Alex A.

@somebody (Stack Exchange is two words)

somebody

3:26 AM

can't edit it

Alex A.

I can. FTFY.

PhiNotPi

@somebody Don't let the man put you down.

Alex A.

Yes. Ensure that the man holds you in his arms as long as possible.

trichoplax

@El'endiaStarman I wonder if the Hash Life approach would work - I don't know whether memory would be a problem as I don't know how much variety there is in your electron wire evolution

El'endia Starman

@trichoplax Link to where I can find out more?

trichoplax

3:27 AM

Hashlife

Hashlife is a memoized algorithm for computing the long-term fate of a given starting configuration in Conway's Game of Life and related cellular automata, much more quickly than would be possible using alternative algorithms that simulate each time step of each cell of the automaton. The algorithm was first described by Bill Gosper in the early 1980s while he was engaged in research at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center. Hashlife was originally implemented on Symbolics Lisp machines with the aid of the Flavors extension. == Hashlife == Hashlife is designed to exploit large amounts of spatial...

It's memoisation

somebody

Hashlife would work

just idk how you would detect cycles

trichoplax

It should be easy in 1D.

@somebody Good point

El'endia Starman

I think we can do a divide-and-conquer sort of thing.

trichoplax

You might be able to use it in combination with cycle detection approaches

somebody

Google Skynet D:

maybe go 2^n steps forward, then 2, 4, 8 etc. steps backward?

once it works test factors (e.g. divide by 3)

PhiNotPi

3:32 AM

Maybe we can make the assumption that the cycle length is some factor of 2^n-2

Alex A.

Unrelated to the current discussion: @somebody, I love that your GitHub username is somebody1234. :D

El'endia Starman

Really, I think the key to speed is to not compute every single iteration.

Calvin's Hobbies

Marky's dead :/

Alex A.

3 hours ago, by Geobits

Marky died :/

user2284570

@Dennis : the one to be created.

Dennis

3:37 AM

About what? We haven't talked about a meta post.

trichoplax

Can we put an upper limit on the cycle length for a given n?

El'endia Starman

@trichoplax 2^n

PhiNotPi

I would say 2^(n/2)

El'endia Starman

Perhaps not very useful, but nonetheless... :P

PhiNotPi

Since at any given step, every-other cell will be 0.

trichoplax

3:39 AM

@El'endiaStarman Well yes, but I was wondering about a smaller upper limit :P

El'endia Starman

Actually, it'd probably be a good idea to try and calculate that upper limit directly. It's a combinatorics problem.

somebody

but for 60 it's around 2^31

puzzling.se?

user2284570

@Dennis : yes but chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/27563376#27563376

trichoplax

@PhiNotPi That seems watertight for both odd and even n

PhiNotPi

IDK if anything better than 2^(n/2) is possible, though

trichoplax

3:41 AM

It's a BIG improvement over 2^n :)

El'endia Starman

Should be 2^(n/2+1).

@trichoplax :P

somebody

are you sure? why?

El'endia Starman

Because n=60 => 2^31-2.

user2284570

@Dennis : looking at git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/fs/… I don’t see code that prevent the use of non printing characters except 0x05 and 0xE5 for fat 12 and above.

trichoplax

@El'endiaStarman That seems conclusive. I'm trying to imagine an intuitive reason. I can't understand why 2^(n/2) isn't enough

El'endia Starman

3:45 AM

For every pattern, there's a mirror.

PhiNotPi

The current state is described not only by the states of the n/2 cells, but also whether or not you are describing the even or odd cells.

That's where the extra bit of information comes from.

quartata

@AlexA. @Doorknob Any word from the CMs on graduation things?

PhiNotPi

What someone should do is write some C++ code that runs the automaton using bitshifts, for speed.

Alex A.

@quartata Nope

We'd tell you if there were

El'endia Starman

I don't know C++ well enough to do that.

user2284570

3:52 AM

@PhiNotPi feel too tired for that.

and finished c++ exam less than a mouth ago.

Geobits

El'endia Starman

Such a pity it's the Democrats' mascot that's a donkey.

Alex A.

@El'endiaStarman I think about that often

Geobits

Donkeys or rumps?

Alex A.

@Geobits Rump for Resident, 2061

@Geobits ಠ_ಠ

Geobits

3:57 AM

2061 isn't an election year >_>

Alex A.

It is for Rump

El'endia Starman

I remember asking my Sociology and Economics teacher in 9th grade(?) why the parties had the mascots they did. I remember him saying that they were originally insults.

Alex A.

Haha I think I remember reading that some where as well

Insults that have since been embraced, clearly.

Geobits

Makes sense. I can't imagine them choosing them for themselves.

Alex A.

The elephant is fine.

El'endia Starman

3:58 AM

Haha, yep.

> The now-famous Democratic donkey was first associated with Democrat Andrew Jackson's 1828 presidential campaign. His opponents called him a jackass (a donkey), and Jackson decided to use the image of the strong-willed animal on his campaign posters. Later, cartoonist Thomas Nast used the Democratic donkey in newspaper cartoons and made the symbol famous.

> Nast invented another famous symbol—the Republican elephant. In a cartoon that appeared in Harper's Weekly in 1874, Nast drew a donkey clothed in lion's skin, scaring away all the animals at the zoo. One of those animals, the elephant, was labeled “The Republican Vote.” That's all it took for the elephant to become associated with the Republican Party.

PhiNotPi

Anyone willing to donate to my Phi 2032 campaign?

Geobits

Do you just need enough to cover the ballot entry phis?

Alex A.

I'll donate my time if you plan to launch a presidential campaign

Calvin's Hobbies

Will you be 35 by then?

El'endia Starman

> Make golfing great again.

Doorknob

4:00 AM

Down to 10.2 questions per day ;(

PhiNotPi

Yeah, it's the first year I'll be able to run.

Geobits

Oh, I can run in the next one. Geobits 2020!

Alex A.

\o/

Make downvoting great again!

Geobits

Marky is my running mate.

Sp3000

Geobits 10000

El'endia Starman

4:00 AM

2028 is the first election year I could run in.

Alex A.

Bits/Markov, 2020

^ makes no sense out of context

Geobits

We have the perfect vision for the year 2020.

5

Alex A.

Uggghhhhhhhhh

I already know that someone is going to use that in an actual campaign in 2020.

It'll be hell.

Geobits

They damn well should. It's just too bad a pun not to.

El'endia Starman

Taking bets now on whether the Democrats or Republicans use it first.

Geobits

4:02 AM

Odds or straight up?

El'endia Starman

[shrugs]

Alex A.

I'm odd and straight. Does that count?

Calvin's Hobbies

@AlexA. If you're lucky the next president will remove that pesky election-every-4-years rule

El'endia Starman

And make the office into a dictatorship? I don't think so.

Alex A.

@Calvin'sHobbies That'll be such a relief.

Geobits

4:03 AM

Elections every prime year.

Alex A.

We could be like the American Statistical Association and elect a new president every year. None of the presidents have time to do anything.

Geobits

Sounds good. That way Congress would have all the power. Oh wait...

Alex A.

Kim Jong Un 2020 >_>

Calvin's Hobbies

How about every pi years? Keeps people on their toes about the dates

Geobits

@AlexA. I think he was born in Kenya, so he can't.

Calvin's Hobbies

4:06 AM

Among other less technical reasons

Alex A.

haha

El'endia Starman

@Calvin'sHobbies Alternate Feigenbaum's constant and pi. Then elections will happen in roughly the same years as usual.

Geobits

Presidents every pi. Senators every tau. Congressman every phi.

Alex A.

Ah yes, the election system that will confuse everyone but mathematicians.

El'endia Starman

Ha, I actually got close-ish! δ + π ~= 7.811.

Calvin's Hobbies

4:08 AM

@Geobits Course then everyone will make puns about the irrationality of American politics

Alex A.

@El'endiaStarman Whoa, nice!

El'endia Starman

@Calvin'sHobbies Bahahaha.

Geobits

I don't think anyone believes it to be rational now ;)

Alex A.

@Calvin'sHobbies I guess we'll have to elect every i years then.

El'endia Starman

I wonder how feasible it would be to convince enough mathematicians to be vocal enough that this actually becomes a thing.

@AlexA. How about i^i? :P Oh wait, that's a real number.

Alex A.

4:10 AM

Mathematicians are barely vocal enough to speak to anyone but the whiteboard they're writing their lectures on. :P

4

Geobits

>_>

Doorknob

Elections every e^(pi*i)+5 years.

Calvin's Hobbies

And mathematicians won't win any sort of majorities

El'endia Starman

@AlexA. Thankfully, I only had one professor in my college career that did that.

Alex A.

@Doorknob Sounds perfect! Oh wait.

somebody

4:11 AM

@Doorknob you need a rand()

Geobits

I think Rand dropped out.

Alex A.

Nice!!!

Calvin's Hobbies

rand(paul)

Alex A.

^ returns 4

Guaranteed random, somewhat Paul

Geobits

Every now and then it throws a Ron.

somebody

4:12 AM

wait, i mean e^(pi*i)+1+1e-999 years

Calvin's Hobbies

@El'endiaStarman Speaking of mathematicians, hello Zgarb

Alex A.

greets Zgarb by pinging El'endia

Calvin's Hobbies

that was kinda a oops

Zgarb

Hello normal people.

somebody

@El'endiaStarman @Adnan @orlp @PhiNotPi @trichoplax chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/35699/electrons-in-a-wire

Geobits

4:16 AM

I'm not sure who you mean.

somebody

@Zgarb wait, i'm sure @AlexA. said he was odd

Alex A.

@Zgarb ( ͜ಠ ͡ʖ ͜ಠ)

Calvin's Hobbies

@Zgarb Is "Zgarb" some kind of futuristic clothing brand?

Alex A.

@somebody >_>

Geobits

Nah, it's just bragz backwards.

Zgarb

4:17 AM

@Calvin'sHobbies One day, I will reveal the story behind my username.

But not today.

Alex A.

D:

Geobits

dun dun DUUUUN

somebody

Nah, it's just qjedZ upside-down.

El'endia Starman

There will be a day where Zgarb's username is explained! But it is not this day!!

Alex A.

Zgarb's real name is El'endia Starman, and El'endia's real name is Zgarb.

Geobits

4:18 AM

:N

:O

:P

:Q

:R

:S

4:19 AM

:T

:U

:V

:W

:X

:Y

4:19 AM

:Zgarb

:Z

:D

Damn ninjas

I'm surprised that was the first ninja. Well done, people.

2

Thomas Kwa

Poll: Vote on your favorite emoticons from the second half of the alphabet by starring the above posts!

Alex A.

4:20 AM

Agreed. That was very well coordinated.

Geobits

There's no :N though :(

somebody

:N

Alex A.

@ThomasKwa Did I do it rite

Zgarb

But I was actually on my way to sleep, so night everyone.

Alex A.

Good night!

El'endia Starman

4:21 AM

G'night!

Doorknob

@Zgarb :Night

Alex A.

It's the Vim way to wish someone goodnight

Thomas Kwa

@Dennis Please edit a :N into Geobits' post above

For symmetry's sake

Alex A.

Why Dennis?

Thomas Kwa

Oh wait, you're here

Alex A.

4:22 AM

As is Knobbers

Geobits

Unfortunately, it was too late for me to edit myself.

Knobbers! I like it!

Thomas Kwa

I keep forgetting who the mods are here

Alex A.

Dost thou wisht it be edited?

Doorknob

@ThomasKwa [status-completed]

@ThomasKwa we have blue names

Geobits

And attitudes :)

Alex A.

4:23 AM

:O

Geobits

Don't start that again :P

Doorknob

Haha yeah :Q

Geobits

Seriously though :R

Thomas Kwa

@Doorknob Never noticed that before.

somebody

you forgot :N again :S

Alex A.

4:24 AM

Seriously? :T

For realz :U guys

No. :

#fightthepower

@ThomasKwa There's a less obtrusive way to do this - strawpoll.me/6812304

Thomas Kwa

@Calvin'sHobbies I was mostly joking.

Although having that poll is a good thing.

Alex A.

4:26 AM

@ThomasKwa People in chat with blue names are moderators on at least one site in the network. Examples in here are myself, Doorknob (mod here and Puzzling), El'endia (mod on Christianity), and trichoplax (mod on Computer Graphics).

El'endia Starman

dat pie chart doe

Alex A.

Anyone who's a mod on any site has mod powers anywhere in chat

Thomas Kwa

@AlexA. Hmm, interesting.

Calvin's Hobbies

Did someone vote for every single one?

Thomas Kwa

Beta sites counted equally to regular sites?

Alex A.

4:27 AM

Yes

Stack Overflow has its own chat network where mods on the other sites aren't mods in their chat.

Calvin's Hobbies

@AlexA. :R <- what is this?

Geobits

Badly pierced tongue

Alex A.

@Calvin'sHobbies Guy sticking his tongue out while drinking a smoothie

somebody

Dog nose

with dust? or weird whiskers or something

Alex A.

Dogs have fantastic noses.

Calvin's Hobbies

4:29 AM

:U is quite popular

Thomas Kwa

I think I'll start using :U more, considering how popular it is.

Alex A.

:U 2016

Geobits

He's got my vote.

Alex A.

It's not entirely clear to me what expression it's attempting to portray.

Calvin's Hobbies

🎂

:U

Alex A.

4:30 AM

Oh right, vertical eating

I feel that emotion frequently

Calvin's Hobbies

get a vertical stove

Geobits

I thought it was a yelling one, like "Hey!"

Alex A.

>:U

somebody

obviously it's a duck

apparently it's just a sideways face

Calvin's Hobbies

@somebody Ooh, good deducktion

somebody

4:35 AM

someone needs to create an emoticon golfing language to keep this relevant to PPCG

*ASCII emoticon

Alex A.

One already exists

esolangs.org/wiki/Emoticon

Geobits

This does not surprise me.

ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ

Anyone know how to transpose input in Retina? (Still asking b/c I haven't found a way to do so.)

Geobits

Like to put it in another key?

somebody

as in col 1 becomes row 1 etc i'm pretty sure

ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ

4:39 AM

Like
ab
cd
ef

to

bdf
ace

and vice versa

somebody

@ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ you mean:
ab
cd
ef

to:
ef#
ga
bc

Geobits

yesterday, by Dennis

(If I just start trolling, it means that I cannot help, not that I don't want to.)

ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ

No my example is correct.

@somebody As said here.

Alex A.

@somebody Not musical keys

Calvin's Hobbies

Everyone name an uncommon kitchen tool/gadget that you own that you think everyone should own.

Geobits

4:44 AM

I don't have any uncommon ones I can think of.

To paraphrase Alton Brown, the only unitasker you should have in your kitchen is a fire extinguisher.

ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ

This sandwich maker

Geobits

That is one impressive, if unholy, contraption.

Alex A.

hahaha

@Calvin'sHobbies Uh, immersion blender? Not that uncommon but when it comes in handy it comes in real handy.

Like making blended soups and stuff.

@Calvin'sHobbies Do you have any particular gadgets in mind that you'd like to share?

ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ

Anyway, no one can transpose input in Retina? I'm sorta surprised.

Alex A.

The primary Retina experts aren't currently in the room.

somebody

4:57 AM

i.e. @MartinBüttner

Alex A.

randomra is also quite good at Retina.

El'endia Starman

@Geobits I remember seeing him say that.

ӍѲꝆΛҐӍΛПҒЦꝆ

Aw darnit.

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