The Nineteenth Byte

It would be interesting if bf's output worked like bflak. Like, all input is loaded directly to the tape, and then everything after the pointer up to a null is printed

Conor O'Brien

I wonder how implicit input would work...

PhiNotPi

12:50 AM

@NathanMerrill you should consider writing some articles about KOTHs for the blog.

Maltysen

@DJMcMayhem would make string printing harder cuz i think a lot of them rely on being able to print, then update cell the print again

DJMcMayhem

That makes sense. I don't know a whole lot about bf

Implicit printing makes a lot more sense in bflak because pushing several values is fairly easy, but updating currents values (cells if you will) is much harder

ASCII-only

@DJMcMayhem There's probably a BF variant that works like that considering how many there are

orlp

def quadrant(x, y):
    if x == y == 0: return 0
    if x > 0 and y >= 0: return 0
    if x <= 0 and y > 0: return 1
    if x < 0 and y <= 0: return 2
    if x >= 0 and y < 0: return 3

DJMcMayhem

Hello easterly! o/

orlp

12:57 AM

is there a simpler version of this?

note the 'half-open' ranges

PhiNotPi

I just stared at a scrolling screen for too long... now I'm getting an optical illusion after effect.

ASCII-only

Hmm

@orlp (x<0)*2+(y<0)?

orlp

@ASCII-only that doesn't work

it has the wrong borders

ASCII-only

Oh, just realized where the borders are

orlp

the borders are inclusive counter-clock wise

ASCII-only

1:02 AM

A sign builtin would be handy, but there isn't one, that does look a bit long though

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

thecodelesscode.com/case/225

3

good code fable ^

DJMcMayhem

That's amazing

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@DJMcMayhem there are more

Nathan Merrill

@PhiNotPi I'm not really sure if anything I write is really going to impact anything

PhiNotPi

@NathanMerrill what do you mean?

cat

1:09 AM

can i use c++'s std::cin and cout without using the overloaded << and >> operators? i tried overloading operator() on a custom wrapper class but it didn't work

Nathan Merrill

like, most of what I would say is pretty common knowledge around here, and I don't know if we're going to have any readers outside of this site

DJMcMayhem

@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Haha these are awesome

cat

whisper because templates are bad

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@DJMcMayhem star

cat

are we at the level of begging for stars now

Nathan Merrill

1:10 AM

@cat oh, we've been there for ages

cat

lol yall wild
no but chat has changed since I was last here often

:c

ASCII-only

//x<0:0,x==0:0,y<0:0,y==0:0 or x<0:0,x==0:0,y<0:0,y==0:1 or x<0:0,x==0:1,y<0:0,y==0:0 or x<0:0,x==0:1,y<0:0,y==0:1
//x<0:1,x==0:0,y<0:0,y==0:0 or x<0:0,x==0:1,y<0:0,y==0:0
//x<0:1,x==0:0,y<0:1,y==0:0 or x<0:1,x==0:0,y<0:0,y==0:1
//x<0:0,x==0:0,y<0:1,y==0:0 or x<0:0,x==0:1,y<0:1,y==0:0
//0000 0001 0100 0101
//1000 0100
//1010 1001
//0010 0110

cat

uh.. me... too?

Conor O'Brien

@cat yeah. most of it not for the good

ASCII-only

@orlp if you can move those around and change them to get 0/1/2/3, it may be shorter

DJMcMayhem

1:11 AM

@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Well now I have officially lost all chance of potentially starring it.

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@DJMcMayhem huh?

dammit

Log: TNB is deterministic

DJMcMayhem

Semi-related:

21

Q: Is it OK to promote my own posts in chat?

Occasionally I see other users posting links to their own answers or challenges in The Nineteenth Byte. Is this OK? Can I promote my own posts as well?

PhiNotPi

@NathanMerrill I think a lot of stuff on the blog so far is like that.

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

it's not my own

cat

tnb is a deterministic finite automata

DJMcMayhem

1:13 AM

> Votes, up or down, are given out according to the worth of the post, and begging for votes does not make your post any more worthy.

s/vote/star

cat

s/star/sun/g

ASCII-only

Oh no that's wrong whoops

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@DJMcMayhem sometimes people forget to star

Nathan Merrill

@PhiNotPi I didn't say that wasn't the case :). Dunno, maybe give me a topic, and I'll see what I can do?

cat

@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC or you just think you're funnier than you are

i can see votes on 3 se sites now! woohoo

DJMcMayhem

1:15 AM

It's not a huge deal

PhiNotPi

@NathanMerrill I just thought of you because I figured you have the most experience with KOTHs. You could write a post about KoTHComm, or maybe general stuff along the lines of my first post (drawing from your personal experience).

DJMcMayhem

This one is pretty good too: thecodelesscode.com/case/6

Nathan Merrill

bah, I would love to make KoTHComm official

But the state of maps is pretty bad

cat

@DJMcMayhem it's cool to me (if that was to my message)

DJMcMayhem

Oh, haha, no that wasn't to you.

cat

1:20 AM

okay c:

DJMcMayhem

Seeing votes on different sites is definitely cool.

I just didn't want to over-berate crazpython over the star thing.

Nathan Merrill

@PhiNotPi hmmm, maybe I'll write something on KoTH communication

DJMcMayhem

I don't even know how many sites I can see votes on.

Nathan Merrill

I'm getting more and more biased towards single-language challenges

cat

@NathanMerrill D:

ASCII-only

1:22 AM

@orlp int('003 103 122'[reduce(lambda a,b:a*2+b,[x<0,x==0,y<0,y==0],0)]) maybe? If you mean faster, I don't think so

orlp

@ASCII-only that's not simpler :(

cat

@DJMcMayhem as many as jon clements? :P

orlp

it's golfier

but I meant in actual simplicity

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@cat clements?

Nathan Merrill

@cat in my most recent KoTH, I had 2 alternate language submissions. Adding them in literally (I mean literally as literally) increased by runtime by 100x

cat

1:23 AM

uh, i meant ericson, i'm not sure why i typed clements?

anyways nvm

DJMcMayhem

@cat As many as jon clements squared.

:p

Nathan Merrill

and I worked really hard to get my communication to be efficient

cat

i want to see golfing languages that compile themselves to native code

@DJMcMayhem :OO

@NathanMerrill like literally literally?

ASCII-only

@cat Not too hard if you convince isaacg to port Pyth to RPython

cat

ha, that would be cool

Nathan Merrill

1:25 AM

lol, yep. It would take a second or two with Java-only, and about a half hour with alternate languages

ASCII-only

@NathanMerrill D: What happened?

Nathan Merrill

communication over pipes is slow

DJMcMayhem

@cat Actually, technically I can on 150+ sites

but I actually earned it on four.

PhiNotPi

^^ I have that installed right now

cat

I didn't know that still worked omg

Nathan Merrill

1:26 AM

its not super slow, if I remember right, its like 2 ms. But compare that to calling a function, and it doesn't compare

PhiNotPi

I've run into issues trying to communicate with command line arguments.

Nathan Merrill

yeah, command line args is even worse

because you also have to wait for the program to boot

PhiNotPi

TBH, I also agree that single-language (everything run as one big program) is the only way to go.

Nathan Merrill

I'm looking into to compiling other languages into Java. Primarily Javascript (using Nashorn) right now.

but those languages would need to be implemented incrementally

cat

Idk what kind of KoTH you made but requiring programs to write to a local file, a named pipe or your host's stdin can't be that slow or that hard, especially in Python ?

ASCII-only

1:30 AM

@NathanMerrill There are quite a lot supported by the JVM (link)

Nathan Merrill

@cat oh, its not hard. it slow.

@ASCII-only yeah, I know :)

after Javascript, I'll see if I can get Jython working

then Kotlin

ASCII-only

What about Ruby and C?

Nathan Merrill

they aren't as popular from people who like to participate

Kotlin isn't that popular, but it'll likely be ridiculously easy

and I think everybody should learn the language :)

PhiNotPi

Hmmm.... I wonder what the numbers are if we calculate the total number of moves in a KOTH.

Nathan Merrill

I did that math

let me find it

PhiNotPi

1:34 AM

As in, number of moves per game (each player's turn = 1 move each) * total number of games.

Nathan Merrill

right :)

PhiNotPi

I remember working really hard to get my Nano Core War up to speed (there wasn't even any inter-process communication). The main issue was that several thousand games were played between each pair of bots.

If I remember correctly, replacing a modulo function with a bitwise mask (since the playing field was a power of two in length), cut several minutes off the runtime.

Nathan Merrill

hmmm, I can't find it

DJMcMayhem

I know self-promotion is frowned upon, and I have complained about it a lot before, but I'm extremely proud of this answer. It uses a ton of tricks I've picked up from Lynn and udioica.

Nathan Merrill

aha!

Sep 1 at 20:27, by Nathan Merrill

but yeah, I'm doing 1000 rounds, and each round has 3 method calls, so that's 3000 round trips for each game

Sep 1 at 20:28, by Nathan Merrill

which adds up to about 60 seconds, which is a bit longer than I was seeing, but still in the right ballpark

Sep 1 at 20:21, by Nathan Merrill

@Rainbolt ok, I measured it, and I'm getting responses in appx 20 ms

there are all the stats

so, each game would take a minute. When you want to run 5K games for a good average, that makes for a 3 day runtime

Anonymous

1:47 AM

@cat I'm working on a compiler for Actually to Python, which is sort of like native code

ASCII-only

But Pyth already does that

Anonymous

@ASCII-only Pyth compiles to Python, which is not the same thing as RPython

Anonymous

RPython is a subset of the Python language that compiles to machine code

PhiNotPi

We should invest some time in making "smart" pairing algorithms, and also something that can, given the results of games so far, determine how many more games are needed to be statistically significant.

ASCII-only

@Mego Oh, you mean RPython?

@Mego I know, but you didn't mention that in your message

Nathan Merrill

1:50 AM

@PhiNotPi already done that. I've got a couple of algorithms to do that, but I could certainly use some more

Anonymous

@ASCII-only I think there was some miscommunication there. I thought you were saying Pyth compiled to RPython (replying to a different message).

PhiNotPi

@NathanMerrill for which of the two things?

Anonymous

Pyth compiles to Python. Actually will compile to Python (and possibly also RPython)

Nathan Merrill

a smart pairing algorithm

I've got two similar ones: They select a random player, then find players with a similar score

the first has a "range", and tries to grab everybody who has a score within the range

the second grabs a fixed number of adjacent players

so, if your range was 50, it'll grab players with an overall score of +-25

games can set a maximum and minimum player limits, so it makes it a bit more complicated

actually, that's not entirely true. I actually randomly order the players, then queue through them (instead of selecting the first one at random)

PhiNotPi

Idea for how MAM can be "fixed" for regular 1v1 competitions, if you haven't implemented it this way already: instead of placing all bots which did not compete in the bottom of the match results (like you would for elections) simply consider the pairs of bots that did compete and increment only those pair counts.

IDK why I haven't done that before.

Nathan Merrill

1:55 AM

wouldn't that mess up the tiebreakers?

New Main Posts

0

Q: Real Chebyshev Rotation

This is a challenge inspired by Chebyshev Rotation. I suggest looking at answers there to get inspiration for this challenge. Given a point on the plane there is a unique square (a rectangle with equal sides) that is centered on the origin and intersects that point (interactive demo): Given a...

code-golf geometry

PhiNotPi

What were the tiebreakers again?

Anyways, this leads me to another possible smart pairing algorithm.

Which is to figure out which pairups would have the greatest effect on the MAM ordering, and then play those.

Anonymous

Since we're on the subject of KotHs, does anyone see any issues with Yahtzee before I post it to main?

Nathan Merrill

besides mine? :)

I don't see any reason to close it :)

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill :P Like I said, I don't think the points you brought up will cause issues

Nathan Merrill

2:00 AM

@PhiNotPi I've separated scoring and pairing in my controller. This would basically mean that my pairer would need to implement its own MAM

(obviously I would put common code in a single class, but you'd still be keeping track of it in one spot)

Dennis

OK, I got used to the occasional anonymous downvote on my esolang answers. But zsh???

PhiNotPi

Regarding a "smart stopping" algorithm: maybe one that detects how often the ranking order changes as the number of rounds increases, and stops the tournament once the rate of change is slow enough.

orlp

have you guys ever seen a chebyshev rotated martin?

the doctors couldn't save him :(

Nathan Merrill

@PhiNotPi there's likely some stat algorithm that could help us

ASCII-only

@orlp Would have preferred an animation

orlp

2:09 AM

if we rotate everywhere by the same flat amount (instead of a percentage) we get this

imgur is begin super slow...

Nathan Merrill

@PhiNotPi I'm curious if the algorithm sports use after the group stage could help us

orlp

@ASCII-only the code is fairly slow :(

PhiNotPi

My avatar rotated looks about the same, I assume.

Nathan Merrill

Sports rating system

A sports rating system is a system that analyzes the results of sports competitions to provide ratings for each team or player. Common systems include polls of expert voters, crowdsourcing non-expert voters, betting markets, and computer systems. Ratings, or power ratings, are numerical representations of competitive strength, often directly comparable so that the game outcome between any two teams can be predicted. Rankings, or power rankings, can be directly provided (e.g., by asking people to rank teams), or can be derived by sorting each team's ratings and assigning an ordinal rank to each...

orlp

@PhiNotPi that's with % rotating

Nathan Merrill

2:15 AM

oh, this is clever

we could use a system similar to page rank to rank teams

PhiNotPi

how?

Nathan Merrill

you give rankings to any team that beats you

ASCII-only

So basically a dominance matrix?

Nathan Merrill

nah, because that doesn't work with cycles

so, if you are a top player, and player that beats you gets a "link" from you to them

its fairly similar to ELO ratings

but I imagine the equations would end up slightly different

PhiNotPi

Is it similar to elo ratings that ignore the effect of order of games?

As in, if you repeatedly calculate elo ratings using the same data over and over again, but with the previous results as the next starting values, the ratings start to converge to their "true values."

Nathan Merrill

2:21 AM

hmmm, I'm not sure

I only know how PageRank works on the high level

PhiNotPi

Regarding the idea of statistics from earlier, I'm looking at this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spearman%27s_rank_correlation_coefficient

@orlp very nice BTW

orlp

ok

the script is a lot faster with smaller images

4

Anonymous

@orlp You spin me right round baby right round like a Chebyshev rotation baby right round right round

Anonymous

Now try it on Downgoat :P

PhiNotPi

@NathanMerrill I think here's what we need to mathematically model for a smart-stopping algorithm. Imagine you have a normally-distributed random number, and a single "tournament" consists of averaging 5 samples. If you were to run the tournament 20 times, you'd expect to get a range of results. It makes sense to calculate the "average squared difference" of these results.

In that case, "average squared difference" = the variance.

If each tournament consisted of 100 random samples instead, the "average squared difference" of the tournament results will be significantly decreased.

Nathan Merrill

2:35 AM

hmmm...unfortunately, that requires playing a bunch with variables

PhiNotPi

In this way, there is a way to compute the "variance" of the results of a tournament, and also a way to determine how the variance decreases as the sample size of each tournament increases.

Nathan Merrill

another feature I'd like to do is saving historical scores of games

that way, you can run different scoring algorithms across all of the games without actually running the games

PhiNotPi

So the question is: how do we measure the "difference" of two rankings? I suggest Spearman's rank correlation coefficient.

Nathan Merrill

wouldn't (rank1-rank2)^2 work?

rank1 being your rank on the first "tournament", rank2 being your rank on the second

orlp

I don't like standard deviation and 'squaring' that statisticians often use

it's nicer for analysis

but there is no reason to use it over absolute mean in most cases

PhiNotPi

2:38 AM

@NathanMerrill I'm talking about the distance between two entire sets of rankings.

Anonymous

Couldn't you just do the sum of the squared differences?

Nathan Merrill

hmmm...another problem actually is that I can't guarantee every player is going to be in every tournament

PhiNotPi

@Mego That too... the exact metric might not matter very much.

I'm not talking about comparing two tournaments, this is more about finding equations to model it.

orlp

2

is it a @Downgoat? is it an upgoat? no! it's chebyshevgoat

Anonymous

goatspin

PhiNotPi

2:41 AM

We know the mathematical relationship of "variance of underlying variable" + "sample size" -> "variance of mean"

orlp

and here's a nicer version of martin

with more fps

never mind that

upload failed

Downgoat

@orlp this is my life in a nutshell

orlp

probably too big

PhiNotPi

For a uniform random variable, the variance of the tournament result = the initial variance / number of samples.

orlp

or imgur is failing

I dno

PhiNotPi

2:44 AM

This describes how much of a difference increasing the sample size will do to the quality of the results. If we want to halve our variance, we have to double the sample size.

So the question is: what's the mathematical relationship between variance of rankings and sample size?

Nathan Merrill

I feel like assigning statistical significance is much easier if the algorithm has knowledge of the scoring metric

For example, with an ELO scoring system, a scoreboard of 1000, 999, 500 is totally different than a scoreboard of 1000, 750, 500

but you can't do that sort of thing with MAM

PhiNotPi

I think my auto-stopper would be most applicable to MAM.

AKA black-box ranking algorithms.

Here's how it would work: by measuring the changes in rank as the tournament progresses, we can determine how quickly it is approaching the true value.

Nathan Merrill

Right, black-box statistical analysis is great because they'll work on any algorithm, but we also lose information that way

even with MAM, you can often times determine how close a ranking was

PhiNotPi

The rate of convergence would be roughly governed by whatever mathematical model we decide upon.

And so we can do some curve-fitting to determine when the convergence is likely to be "close enough."

New Main Posts

0

Q: How to take console input of an array in Python 2

Here n is length of array and in next line are subsequent n elements Input 3 1 3 4 Output 1 3 4

array-manipulation python

PhiNotPi

2:56 AM

Simplified example of how it would work, if our goal was to determine the mean of an normal random variable with unknown variance. By simply watching how much the cumulative average changes over time (no access to individual trial data), we can estimate the variance of the variable, from which we can determine how many trials we need.

Anonymous

I'm considering using Jython to allow Python submissions to my KotH

Nathan Merrill

3:12 AM

tell me how it works out!

I'd also be interested in runtimes with/without the Jython submissions, if you have the time :)

Anonymous

Sure thing

Anonymous

So far it seems to be working pretty well

Anonymous

I've re-implemented the dummy player in Jython, and realized an issue with it in the process

PhiNotPi

@NathanMerrill I'm gonna write a program to try to implement my hypothetical algorithm... to see if it's any good or not.

Nathan Merrill

that'd be great. If you want to integrate with KoTHComm, feel free. That portion of the controller is fairly stable now.

@Mego how are you passing variables?

Anonymous

3:26 AM

@NathanMerrill Via Jython magic

Nathan Merrill

so, if you pass an ArrayList<>, does it come out as a python list?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

3:38 AM

160

Q: Managing a Medieval Low Orbit Ion Cannon

Sometimes I hate my players. My table is currently composed of five diabolically inventive players. They come from a mixed IT/Engineering background, so more often than not, I have to deal with some really weird solutions that they create for the problems I present them. This is one of those c...

pathfinder gm-techniques plot

10/10

the answer is especially good

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill No, it comes out a java.util.ArrayList

Anonymous

In Jython, you get access to all of the JRE library

Anonymous

So you can do from java.util import ArrayList

Nathan Merrill

ah, that's the same as Nashorn

if they return a list()?

Anonymous

Unfortunately, I couldn't get Jython to play nice with the project, so that will have to be another time

Nathan Merrill

3:43 AM

can java do import Jython.structures.list or somthing?

@Mego what happend?

New Meta Posts

0

Q: How can we attract experienced golfers?

There are people who have already been golfing for a while on other golfing sites, language-specific forums, local groups, and so on. I think we'd benefit a lot from having them here to contribute their knowledge and enthusiasm. What can we do better to attract experienced golfers to join us?

discussion new-users

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill Too much complication dealing with build paths

PhiNotPi

@xnor Somewhat related to your meta post: I feel like I sometimes "get bad vibes" when an experienced golfer (as in, long-time veteran of some other golfing site) joins the community. Does anyone else feel the same?

ASCII-only

@PhiNotPi bad vibes?

PhiNotPi

That reaction is probably drawing from a couple experiences in which people have "looked down" upon this website/our members.

Ehh.... nevermind what I was saying, it's just anecdotal.

Dennis

3:56 AM

Well, we're not a traditional code golf site. Our rules are vastly different from other sites (very lax and, in some cases, ambiguous). We prefer friendly collaboration over fierce competition. We mash different languages together in the same competition. We have voting, and scores are usually unrelated to the quality of the golf. I can see how that could be off-putting.

Geobits

@PhiNotPi It's not just you ;)

xnor

@PhiNotPi yes, sometimes there is some "well that's not the way we do it at X"

i do sympathize because our rules are pretty arbitrary and hard to find

i would like them to take us more seriously though, and a large part of that is to deserve to be taken seriously

Geobits

If someone doesn't know the rule, that's one thing. If someone is upset by the rule once they know it simply because it's done differently elsewhere, that's different.

Downgoat

> very lax and, in some cases, ambiguous

I would say we're rather the opposite

Geobits

Really?

PhiNotPi

4:00 AM

We're very lax compared to other golfing sites. (which can have auto-scorers and stuff)

ASCII-only

@PhiNotPi Examples?

We can't be extremely strict since we have multiple languages, but it seems we've settled on a ruleset that's pretty much as defined as we can get it

Anonymous

We lack restrictions other golfing sites have (usually they require full programs, only in a specified language, and I/O is only done via STDIN and STDOUT or CLA and STDOUT), but we're also more restrictive on challenges (stricter dupe rules and specification requirements) - at least some of that is due to our laxness on submissions.

Nathan Merrill

we have a very broad definition of language. Other golfing sites typically add golfing languages one by one, which limits language-based abuse

Anonymous

That too

ASCII-only

@NathanMerrill Language-based abuse?

Nathan Merrill

4:03 AM

meta-golfscript has introduced a host of rules

xnor

i wonder how much a top-tier golfer would be noticed if they joined without having a well-known name like Ton Hospel

i think if it's not in a language i know, i wouldn't recognize top golfing at all

Nathan Merrill

@xnor I'd expect that the top-tier scores would get noticed

Anonymous

@ASCII-only Using a feature introduced after the challenge was written. We allow that here, but require submissions to be non-competing if they use newer features. Other golf sites have strict language version requirements.

xnor

@NathanMerrill i'm not so sure of that, actually

i'd need to have other answers in the same language to compare

and even then, can I really tell "this person golfed better" from "this was an amazing golf"?

Geobits

Unless they were really active, I think a top golfer could go quite a while without being noticed. Now if they went through every challenge and beat every X answer in a wekk, that would get noticed for sure.

Nathan Merrill

4:05 AM

really? If they are programming in a common language, then they will already have competition that will notice them. If they are programming in a unique language, then the fact that its even there will pique interest

Anonymous

We also have the allowance that, if it works on some generally-available machine/configuration, it's allowed. Other golf sites have one master setup that your code is required to work under.

ASCII-only

Only in a specified language won't work here - we don't have the numbers, I/O is done in any way because some languages don't support STDIN input, plus I don't think input method really affects solutions that much

Geobits

Input methods hugely affect scores in some languages.

Anonymous

Like Java

Geobits

The difference between taking an int as a method argument instead of reading it from STDIN is insane.

ASCII-only

4:07 AM

Sure, but there's pretty much going to be one best input method for each language

Anonymous

Being able to do a[0] to get the first input rather than wrapping a Scanner around System.in or whatever is massively helpful.

Nathan Merrill

also, code pages. Jelly (as we write it) would do terribly on the automated scorer

Anonymous

@ASCII-only Not necessarily. In Python, a long list of string inputs might be better to be taken via CLA (since sys.argv is shorter than a=input().split() if you already have sys imported).

Lynn

@Dennis 14 bytes!! :D

Geobits

Showoff :P

xnor

4:11 AM

i can see how having flexible formats can make us seem less worthy of competition, though i'd find that unfair

Geobits

It's a difference in atmosphere for sure, but there's room on the internet for both.

Lynn

(I mean, his Jelly answer on Chebyshev got down to 14. It’s magic)

Geobits

Oh. Then I'll redirect my comment to him ;)

Nathan Merrill

allowing flexible formats comes as a natural consequence of allowing any language

aka, what's the difference between "2" and 2?

in terms of input/output

PhiNotPi

I just upvoted the "Real Chebyshev Rotation" challenge mainly because I felt sorry for it.

Dennis

4:20 AM

@Downgoat Re: ambiguous. For example, it's not always clear how to interpret truthy/falsy. For example, if the output is 0, it could be treated as the number 0 (falsy in, e.g., Python) or the string "0" (truthy). Other languages have if-zero and if-not-zero or don't have conditionals at all. That a consequence of allowing all languages (which I applaud) rather than a tiny subset of them for which we have clearly defined rules.

@Lynn Pretty happy I finally found an approach that goes with Jelly. The edge cases (pun intended) still contribute a lot of bytes though.

ASCII-only

You could (probably?) say they're corner cases as well

Maltysen

ughhhhh i hate race conditions...

PhiNotPi

Just... rename it to PRNG and call it good.

ASCII-only

RIP me I think I need to do 64 functions and (at least) 64 testcases for rotation (each combination of rotation number and anchor)

Would anyone mind writing up some testcases?

Anonymous

@ASCII-only Write a test case generator

ASCII-only

4:34 AM

To do that I'd actually have to implement it correctly first

mınxomaτ

4:45 AM

In case you've missed it:

Launch of Manned China Mission with Shenzhou 11 to Tiangong-2

►

Anonymous

I think I've finally squashed all the bugs in my Yahtzee controller

Nathan Merrill

do you know how many times I've said that?

ASCII-only

@NathanMerrill "I think I've finally squashed all the bugs in my Yahtzee controller"?

Nathan Merrill

when everything is a "black box", those small little logical bugs can kill you :)

yep, that phrase exactly :)

El'endia Starman

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I upvoted the top four answers. Mostly because I didn't feel like reading more.

Anonymous

5:04 AM

@NathanMerrill I could be more certain with more eyes looking at the code :)

betseg

@orlp is this 20000th starred message

PhiNotPi

@NathanMerrill right now I'm trying to do some curve fitting, to figure out how variance changes based on sample size.

Unfortunately I need to go to bed now, hopefully I can solve this problem tomorrow.

Sometimes it looks like 1/x, other times it looks like e^-x and I need more data.

@betseg woo! I cast that star.

IDK if your statement is accurate or not.

ASCII-only

> show all 20003

The 20000th one should be this one, (El'endia's)

betseg

5:20 AM

It's higher because it has more stars

ASCII-only

@betseg this page, 20000 is the fourth one down

Also 3h ago vs 11h ago

betseg

El'endia's is higher on the list because it has more stars

ASCII-only

Exactly, which is why it's the 20000th one

@anyone I need someone to review (at least part of) some Python code, and I think it's too long to post to CR

orlp

@MartinEnder I'm afraid you've been Chebyshev'd

El'endia Starman

WOOO 20,000th starred message! (Temporarily. :P)

DJMcMayhem

5:31 AM

The boats get afraid when the water comes, so they jump

5

El'endia Starman

@DJMcMayhem Oh, that's so cool.

DJMcMayhem

@El'endiaStarman I know, it's pretty sweet. It's called the bay of fundy

betseg

@DJMcMayhem read as goats, disappointed :(

betseg

5:48 AM

Challenge idea: A087246

DJMcMayhem

What does "squarefree deficient" mean?

nvmd, I googled it.

betseg

When prime factoring none of the factors duplicate

Ninja'd by Google

DJMcMayhem

CMC: Find the n'th squarefree number

betseg

Btw 8=2²×2

DJMcMayhem

And?

betseg

5:55 AM

So cubed doesn't mean it's squarefree

DJMcMayhem

Yeah I know

Anonymous

7

Q: Square free Numbers

Given a number N, write the shortest complete program to find the number of square-free integers below N. Sample Input 100000 Sample Output 60794 Constraints: Should work for all positive N below 1,000,000 Should not take more than 10 secs. Please do not use built in functions, please.

code-golf

DJMcMayhem

That's from 5 years ago

betseg

Woah

Dennis

6:30 AM

@Lynn s/14/12/

mınxomaτ

6:42 AM

One can no longer uninstall even more apps in the latest Win10 build. What fun...

ASCII-only

@Dennis I'm wondering if you've taken a look at Charcoal yet/when you could take a look

Dennis

Shoot, I forgot. It's almost 4 AM now. Could you remind me in ~12 hours?

orlp

23

Q: List of first n prime numbers most efficiently and in shortest code

Rules are simple: First n primes (not primes below n), should be printed to standard output separated by newlines (primes should be generated within the code) primes cannot be generated by an inbuilt function or through a library, i.e. use of a inbuilt or library function such as, prime = get_n...

code-challenge primes

holy crap that bounty message

ASCII-only

@Dennis I'll be asleep then, but I can ping you before I sleep

Dennis

OK. :)

Transcript for