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12:00 AM
But each cell is 1x2 blocks
Can't over HTTPS :(
Good night guys.
Anyways that's the current consensus on disallowing languages
@Quill I should have just bought the box set of Friends. Instead I bought all ten seasons separately.
12:00 AM
Q: Disallowing Explicit Exclusion of Languages

MegoWe've had discussion on a related topic before, where the general consensus is that challenges should be language-agnostic by default, but specific-language challenges were also acceptable within reason. Spurred by this question (which was closed for an unrelated reason), the discussion was brou...

I was going to do 2x2, I don't remember why I changed it
It depends
I think there are (at least) two very different cases, and the question as posed doesn't distinguish them.

Case 1: banning languages the OP doesn't like
Penalties for using "golfing languages" have a number of problems. For one, the question "Is XYZ a golfing language?" is subjective. For another, borrowing from a phrase about bringing a knife to a gunfight, on this site it's like going to a rifle range and insisting that people should use epées.

Case 2: banning a specific language which trivialises the question
@AlexA. that's kind of the point of a box set
12:01 AM
@Quill I know. I think I bought them before I knew such a set existed.
@Zizouz212 What's your challenge?
Keep quartatertots safe from tornadoes
I'm safe, don't worry.
Okay. I am genuinely concerned so I'm glad to hear you're safe.
The tornado warning was canceled so
It was just amusing that we got one honestly
12:03 AM
I've never seen a tornado. I want to chase storms when I'm older.
The idea of a tornado in California is very novel, to say the least
@Hosch250 Protip: Don't
BTW, those are only issued when one is seen.
@Hosch250 I want to run from storms always.
I love storms. They are wild, they have a power that I admire.
@SuperJedi224 I have 2^21 ideas to run past you...
12:04 AM
@quartata I could maybe imagine it happening east of the Sierras but idk.
I'd need a much larger display
I don't really want to build one right now
@Hosch250 They can also kill you
So you might want to weigh those options
@quartata That is the least of my worries.
in The 2nd Monitor, 5 mins ago, by Phrancis
Although, you'd have to define "passing" Code Review... guess not being VTC?
Especially when you do it safely, but I'm not worried either way.
12:05 AM
Python, Java, C/++/#, Pearl, Ruby, Javascript, HTML/CSS (if people could even use that), Rails, Swift, Fortran, Cobol, Bash, R, Julia, J, APL... Anything else?
The circuitry behind this one already looks like this:
I can get a CR mod to post in VBA, maybe.
@Hosch250 Mat's Mug?
I like that guy. :)
12:06 AM
@Zizouz212 Bash
@AlexA. Me too. I've learned a lot from him.
@Zizouz212 Pyth/CJam.
@Hosch250 Eww
@Zizouz212 Julia, R, Java, ...
I think I better language list would be this: tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html
@Zizouz212 Disallowing those will get people so salty
12:07 AM
basically anything you can apply for a job in
@Zizouz212 J
@AlexA. That's fine. :D
Hey :)
prepare for salt @Zizouz212
@Phrancis Hello
12:08 AM
Whoa, beta look again (just teasing)
@Hosch250 He provided two answers to my CR question that got me gold. Nice guy and very helpful.
I see you are from CR
@Zizouz212 APL
2 mins ago, by Quill
in The 2nd Monitor, 5 mins ago, by Phrancis
Although, you'd have to define "passing" Code Review... guess not being VTC?
^^ yes
12:09 AM
I was just curious to see if you were really going to do that
Python, Java, C/++/#, Pearl, Ruby, Javascript, HTML/CSS (if people could even use that), Rails, Swift, Fortran, Cobol, Bash, R, Julia, J, APL... Anything else?
@Zizouz212 You forget VBA, VB.NET, and others.
@quartata Oh nice. Thanks :)
@Phrancis Anyone who did that would get kicked out of the Nineteenth Byte. We do not mingle with you plebian code reviewers
12:10 AM
BTW, can I post an entry in C#, then translate it to VB.NET and resubmit it?
@Hosch250 yes
People translate between python and pyth all the time
OK. I'm not likely to do that, but just curious.
@Phrancis Btw, welcome to The Nineteenth Byte! We're not as hostile toward Code Review as we sound. hides knife
I mean, I could have two, essentially identical submissions at the same time?
@quartata they also get downvoted
12:11 AM
I don't see that happen much
I won't do it. It seems cheaty.
@grc I've never seen that happen.
Here, lemme show you:
@Zizouz212 Is your intent to disallow golfing languages? What's the purpose of this language whitelist of yours?
A: Alex-style Addition

xnorPyth, 11 bytes +sQ-18l`hO0 A direct Pyth port of my Python answer. + Add up sQ the sum of the input and - the difference of 18 18 and l` the string length of hO0 one plus a random number in [0,1)

no downvotes
@quartata Hey, don't get me wrong, I think it could be fun, personally; but I've seen golfed code questions get heavily DV/VTC on CR, and any answers will usually point out first and foremost "Make your code better by not golfing it"
12:12 AM
@Phrancis I was thinking more "no improvements are suggested"
Python, C, C++, C#, PHP, .NET, VB.NET, VBA, Javascript, Assembly, Perl, Ruby, Swift, Visual Basic, Matlab, Pascal, Groovy, Objective C, R, J, Julia, APL, Rails, HTML/CSS, APL, Fortran, Cobol, Rails, SQL, Lisp, Lua, Haskell, Bash, Applescript...
So it's as short as possible while still being perfectly readable and standards compliant
@Phrancis That's why we try to avoid mingling with you
@AlexA. Yep. :)
@Phrancis Isn't code golf explicitly off topic on Code Review anyway though?
12:13 AM
A: The Many Memes of PPCG

DoorknobMeme: Code Review Originator: unclear / syb0rg? Cultural Height: up to CR's graduation :( Background: Ever since around March of 2014, Programming Puzzles & Code Golf and Code Review have had a friendly rivalry of who could graduate first (which has expanded to become a friendly rivalry in gen...

@AlexA. It's one of those grey areas
@quartata I had porting someone else's answer in mind
@Zizouz212 In that case, it'd be way easier to build a list of languages you don't want.
also, it didn't get upvoted much
@grc Ah.
@AlexA. I think TIOBE top 100 is a fairly decent whitelist
12:14 AM
@AlexA. Ummm... I don't think I would do that :/
@AlexA. More esolangs than you think
@Zizouz212 Why not?
The aim of this list of programming languages is to include all notable programming languages in existence, both those in current use and historical ones, in alphabetical order, except for dialects of BASIC and esoteric programming languages. Note: Dialects of BASIC have been moved to the separate List of BASIC dialects. Note: This page does not list esoteric programming languages. == A == == B == == C == == D == == E == == F == == G == == H == == I == == J == == K == == L == == M == == N == == O == == P == == Q == == R == == S == == T == == U == ...
An esoteric programming language (sometimes shortened to esolang) is a programming language designed to test the boundaries of computer programming language design, as a proof of concept, as software art, or as a joke. The use of esoteric distinguishes these languages from programming languages that working developers use to write software. Usually, an esolang's creators do not intend the language to be used for mainstream programming, although some esoteric features, such as visuospatial syntax, have inspired practical applications in the arts. Such languages are often popular among hackers and...
@AlexA. The list would be too long, and someone will get around with a language I don't know.
I'm against these 'esolangs'
@Zizouz212 Esolangs are usually not golfing langs.
12:15 AM
Or that.
What you don't like our weird esolangs?
@Zizouz212 What about them don't you like?
I personally think it's interesting to see the kind of solutions in the myriad languages people dig up or create themselves on this site.
12:17 AM
Someone should try Mythril.
But hey, before I get that challenge done, I'm going to get my other challenge (which is... kind of evil actually)
@AlexA. And if someone solves a challenge in Brainfuck, it is not going to win anyway, but they still deserve the votes.
@mınxomaτ Yep
I can tell you right now that excluding anything for no reason whatsoever will be met with immediate backlash.
12:18 AM
We've already told him multiple times now :P
@mınxomaτ I'm resilient.
@Zizouz212 We'll see :)
So encouraging
@Zizouz212 Just exclude all languages until someone writes a controller thing for that language.
20 mins ago, by Zizouz212
I will down vote the community into oblivion >:D
12:18 AM
Why don't you like them?
@Hosch250 That's fine. As long as the thing isn't written in the language
Is it important to your challenge that there be a limited number of languages, or is the whitelist just ones you would prefer? You could have a bounty for top whitelisted answer without having to exclude others (if that fits with your question)
Make them write it in the controller language. I usually see Java for that.
@AlexA. Make an answer which contains a golfed esolang interpreter and then appends the rest of the code in that esolang ಠ‿ಠ
@trichoplax I personally dislike the 'esolangs', cause they're not readable... I think it's more... use a conventional-type language
12:20 AM
What is your challenge idea?
Oh if it's a KotH then this makes more sense - especially if you'd need to download dozens of interpreters to run the challenge
Of course, it doesn't have to be code golf :)
What is your challenge idea?
@Zizouz212 Then you'd be better off on Rosetta Code frankly.
If you do something like or similar, you're unlikely to get esolangs because they're very rarely optimized for speed.
12:21 AM
In fact, I kind of forget what I was planning to make the challenge about -_-
For anything but esolangs not designed for code golf will never win.
@Zizouz212 If you know them they are easy to read
@RikerW That's not true at all. Pyth and CJam are esolangs and they routinely win code golf contests.
Pyth for example is actually really readable (at least for me)
12:22 AM
@RikerW They win code-golf all the time.
@RikerW I wrote a poorly thought out code challenge once, which was won by an optimal answer in CJam...
@Zizouz212 I can make C an esolang: pastebin.com/t1j5ZdMu :D
@AlexA. I think he means more like Hexagony
Wow, you all ninjaed each other replying to me.
@mınxomaτ lol... That's why I love macros
Favourite macro:

    #define ever (;;)

    for ever {
12:24 AM
@Zizouz212 If you resolve the macros you still couldn't tell me what that program does without running it.
I kind of which Java had macros :)
Now this is C as an esolang.
where is @phase anyway
@AlexA. 4/10 readable compared to the J interpreter
12:25 AM
@Dennis I think it rivals the J interpreter in unreadability but J still wins.
The J interpreter is absolutely, in no way readable.
Link to J interpreter?
I actually had to read the O interpreter once to figure out how String subtraction worked
I'm still scarred for life
You can subtract strings??
12:26 AM
I feel you pain. ^^^^
Someone should send it to CR
Wow. That is a seriously problematic language if it can subtract strings.
@RikerW AFAIK it isn't hosted somewhere, you have to download the source as a tarball. I forgot where I got it.
Yeah. It's basically like Ruby's x.delete(y)
AFAIR you mean?
12:27 AM
Removes all instances of the string
AFAIK = As far as I know
So you can't do "three" - "two"?
I just dislike AFAIK.
@El'endiaStarman wat?
Ah, like C#'s .Replace, where you do .Replace("text", string.Empty).
12:27 AM
Just finished a metal model of the Millennium Falcon! :D
Dec 27 '15 at 16:36, by Dennis
@RikerW Would AFAIR be an acceptable alternative to AFAIK?
@El'endiaStarman metal \m/
@mınxomaτ Laptop camera. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
12:29 AM
@Hosch250 pretty much
Supper time.
       _.,--'" ||^ || "`z._
      /_/^ ___\||  || _/o\ "`-._
    _/  ]. L_| || .||  \_/_  . _`--._
   /_~7  _ . " ||. || /] \ ]. (_)  . "`--.
  |__7~.(_)_ []|+--+|/____T_____________L|
  |__|  _^(_) /^   __\____ _   _|
  |__| (_){_) J ]K{__ L___ _   _]
  |__| . _(_) \v     /__________|________
  l__l_ (_). []|+-+-<\^   L  . _   - ---L|
   \__\    __. ||^l  \Y] /_]  (_) .  _,--'
     \~_]  L_| || .\ .\\/~.    _,--'"
      \_\ . __/||  |\  \`-+-<'"
        "`---._|J__L|X o~~|[\\
@Hosch250 Bye.
@RikerW That looks like a most unaerodynamic profile.
@Hosch250 Which is pretty much intentional.
The Falcon is supposed to be a piece of junk.
12:30 AM
And it is. :P
Hopefully above makes a reasonable thumb guide on what a reasonable language could be ;p
@Phrancis Since when is a language?
Q: Why does everyone think that the Millennium Falcon is a piece of junk?

Daniel RosemanIt’s a running joke in Star Wars: A New Hope (1977), and carried over into Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015), that the Millennium Falcon looks like a piece of junk: Luke, “What a piece of junk!” when he sees it for the first time, and Leia later says sarcastically “You came in that thing? You’r...

12:31 AM
Q: Why does everyone think that the Millennium Falcon is a piece of junk?

Daniel RosemanIt’s a running joke in Star Wars: A New Hope (1977), and carried over into Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015), that the Millennium Falcon looks like a piece of junk: Luke, “What a piece of junk!” when he sees it for the first time, and Leia later says sarcastically “You came in that thing? You’r...

OK, I can't guarantee all of them are languages, only that their Body text contains "language"
dang, ninjaed.
I like the language.
CURSE YOU @El'endiaStarman!!!
12:32 AM
@RikerW ^_^
@Hosch250 Cut me a break dude, you know tags don't have categories otherwise I'd use that ;p
@El'endiaStarman ಠ_ಠ
No breaks shall be cut
How about cheese?
(╯ ಠ ͜ʖ ಠ)╯︵ ┻━┻
12:34 AM
OP has clarified a bunch of things about the 2016 question, if people want to take a look
༽つ۞﹏۞༼つ ─=≡ΣO))
@AlexA. *brakes
OK, I just realized how bad my query is, that doesn't even come up even though it's very common. Ironic huh.
@Phrancis I was suspicious that a round number of results were returned too...
12:42 AM
Huh, there aren't any esolangs/golfing langs on there...
But unhappy though.
should be in there
It isn't.
Well, there ya go, guess you'll have to use normal languages like the rest of us ;p
12:44 AM
Maybe it needs more than 41 questions tagged brainf**k?
Hm, my query is still wrong
Oh shit, I know why now I think
What was wrong?
Just now realized Tags has a Count column so no weird join needed
It works now BTW.
Wow, only 12 julia questions?
How is there more BF than Julia?????
@RikerW Not sure, I'd guess the BF name has to do with it
Everyone loves the word F%%K
12:51 AM
When run for PPCG, it doesn't work very well.
We don't have questions tagged with languages.
Yes we do
Yeah, but fewer.
Right. We require at least one language tags for all questions
We, on the other hand, only use language specific tags for tips questions and KOTHs which require a certain language.
12:54 AM
Oh sorry
King of the Hill
It's a challenge type here
Oh gotcha
For competitions that are bot vs bot.
How much time do you spend here?
On PPCG? Not very much, on occasion I'll browse/vote but I've never posted
@RikerW Brainfuck has been around a long time. Julia is still pre-version 1.
12:55 AM
@Phrancis Okay.
@AlexA. Yes, but it is much easier.
@Phrancis what is your opinion on this?
1 hour ago, by Sp3000
Cross-site challenge idea: Shortest golf which still passes code review.
My opinion would be that making it on-topic will be challenging
@AlexA. It's still amazing to me that J people legitimitely call that code a "style" and think it's more readable or whatever
I like J recreationally, but I wouldn't touch the APL mindset with a 10-foot pole.
@Phrancis And what is your opinion on golfing langs?
@Mauris Agreed.
(I've had discussions with people who make J/K/APL look like a scary religious programming sect. :()
Like NBZ. His profile basically treats it as a religion.
12:59 AM
If you do make a contest Q out of it, make sure to include links to How do I ask a good question? and What topics can I ask about here?

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