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12:11 AM
I think I just came up with a pretty interesting Cops 'n' Robbers challenge.
 
waits for Mauris to clarify
2
 
Anonymous
You have my attention
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

MaurisCops and Robbers: Text Transformations Cops' challenge The cops must write a fully deterministic program that reads input from STDIN and writes output to STDOUT as its only side effects. The mapping from strings to strings performed by this program will be called f. A cop's post con...

 
I got my enthusiast badge
 
Cops write programs that perform some transformation f on standard I/O. Robbers write programs P in the same language so that P and f(P) both perform f as well.
I have no idea at all how to write a good cops for this, which is why it sounds potentially very fun
 
12:26 AM
It seems like the standard boring, unbeatable methods like RSA encryption can be used
 
Really? I don't think so
 
e.g. check if STDIN has the decryption key; if it doesn't, print nothing
 
Remember: cops have to essentially tell you f in the form of a program, and crack their own solutions
 
even a simple cryptographic hash can be used
 
Oh, hmmm...
Darn, you're right. I should've thought of that.
I really don't want to write "btw no crypto functions thanks" in there, too :<
 
12:30 AM
'How shitty do I need to make my hash for it to be considered non-cryptographic?' :P
 
Anonymous
ROT13
 
hash(n) -> 1
 
I still want to make my vault security CnR work..
I just dont know what to do to it to make it so esolangs can have a chance and to prevent uncrackables
 
Thinking about CnR's and the unusable language post gave me a new idea
Cops post an interpreter for a programming language that appears to be unusuable for programming
But there is some hidden way to achieve computations
 
12:41 AM
Robbers have to find a way to write a certain program in it
 
I could use an undocumented feature of some obscure language and win
 
I might make it a popularity contest for highest-voted surviving answer, so hash or crypto-based ones wouldn't go well.
 
So basically write Malbolge
Actually sounds fun
 
So basically write Bubblegum, more like. Or Seed.
 
See my last message :P
 
12:46 AM
So like half CnR half popcon?
 
I know, but there's no guarantee people won't upvote those :P
 
Bubblegum isnt that weird
 
It would be an example of a cryptographic hash-based answer.
 
Why is the Nineteenth Byte so quiet today anyways?
 
Weekends
 
12:56 AM
PPCG is not that fun, but it's more fun than work.
Objectively.
 
…I see
 
*Subjectively
 
I have posted 1.2k messages this week. Does that make me the most talkative person in PPCG :P
 
1:28 AM
^
*Objsubjectively
 
I drafted my idea here
 
2
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

feersumCreate a programming language that only appears to be unusable cops-and-robbers popularity-contest Cops' challenge: Design a programming language that appears to be unusable for programming, but admits computation (or at least completion of the task) through some non-obvious mechanism. You sho...

 
It needs a lot of polish, but tell me if there are any glaring holes.
 
2:13 AM
@isaacg I had a feeling you would crack that one. :P Btw, ljyG finishes in under 50 seconds on my machine, while lsyG is very slow. Even lsy<G18 takes over 6 minutes. What would be the reason for that?
 
If I wanted to start a programming blog, what would you recommend? Blogspot?
Or what if I wanted to make a "tutorial" for different libraries as I encounter them?
(because I'm often frustrated when I try to learn a new library)
 
Well, I use blogspot because it's easy. If you are willing to spend the time and energy, use something else.
(I don't know what else to use, so don't ask me :P)
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ There's things like Wordpress.
 
I loathe wordpress.
It is terrible.
 
I've heard too much bad stuff about it too.
The thing that gets me is that Randall Munroe uses it
 
2:18 AM
Yeah, it's very buggy
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT
NO WAY
 
Look down at the bottom
 
Oh. My. Gosh.
he betrayed me...
 
Does SO use their own thing?
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Don't you mean, "I think SO"?
 
2:23 AM
@feersum Just thought of great interpreter I could write for this
 
The best part about it is that afterwards I could easily turn it into a great golfing language
The more I think about this the more excited I am.
 
@Justin The favicon too.
 
^
 
2:30 AM
And I use Wordpress too. :P For both my personal and technical blogs.
I don't mind it at all. Probably because I don't try to do too much with it.
 
^ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
@feersum Before I start writing this I have a question. I am planning on writing this in Objective C but in order to make it cross platform I will have to use a library called ObjFW (basically the Foundation library but portable). Is this OK?
 
Uh, I guess.
Why Objective C?
 
It has to be a C variant. I detest C++, suck at regular C so...
Yea. I can write it in C++ if you want.
 
2:37 AM
It meets the requirements afaik.
 
Mkay. Thanks.
 
@Dennis No wonder I couldn't crack your 4 byte Pyth challenge. My most likely candidates were using its nice structure in octal (6777777777), or the regression formula from OEIS (a(n) = 8*a(n-1)+7). But that just didn't seem to fit into 4 bytes of Pyth.
 
^^ Most CnRs have had time limits on the output I forgot this one doesn't have any
 
The structure of the number was no big obstacle, considering that an OEIS entry popped up high in a Google search. ;)
 
This does have an output size limit which gets rid of the twelve hour trillion digit number printers.
 
2:49 AM
@RetoKoradi I figured that if I dared to post a 4 byte submission, I should at least make it slow. I was going to use s instead of j, but that seemed like cheating.
I'm having an interesting day. Since Wednesday, my DSL is out, so I've been tethering my phone's internet connection. However, after rebooting my desktop, I cannot tether anymore, and the computer lost its ability to play sounds.
 
@Dennis I actually tried a super brute force approach. But all 4 character combinations were just way too much. Throughput is pretty limited with starting the python interpreter each time. And then most of them die with exceptions, and some even hang.
 
That sounds fun. Now you're making me regret giving the hint to would-be brute-forcers on my 2-byte Snails program that two certain 2-byte programs use all the memory on the system and make everything crash
 
@feersum If it's just a fairly small number that cause trouble, you can easily remove them from the list and rerun. But in this case, the original list was close to 100 million programs. It became obvious pretty quickly that it was not going to happen.
Well, at least I cracked 2 other 4 byte attempts. For me, the question in this whole contest is if a 4 byte answer will survive. I did my share to stop them. :)
 
Are there some left?
 
I think so, but they are still some time from being safe. Thomas Kwa had one that was going to be safe today, so there was some urgency on that one...
 
3:04 AM
I should post a 4-byte TECO answer. Nobody will dare to run this horrible relic from the 1980s.
 
Yeah, your best chance is probably a really obscure language. But I've seen people here with a lot of dedication.
 
I dislike the question in general but thinking of it as a contest limited to 4 bytes makes it kind of interesting...
 
Yes. At least in a golfing language, it would be trivial to write 16 byte answers that are absolutely impossible to crack (the easiest way would probably be to hack into the persons computer). I figured that 8 byte answers would be tough already, and the first set of them are about to go safe within the next 2 hours.
 
only two answers open now 4 or less
one in some proprietary APL dialect, ugh
Using a language without a free interpreter in CnR should be a standard loophole.
7
 
I would have gotten away with my 2 byte TI BASIC answer if it wasnt for that meddling Thomas Kwa
 
Anonymous
3:18 AM
You can never beat Thomas Kwa at TI-BASIC. It's like fighting a land war in Asia.
 
How can one human know TI BASIC so well
 
@feersum I was thinking about posting a Meta discussion and/or a potential standard loophole for this. It annoyed me in the previous CnRs, but I feel it finally got out of hand in this one.
 
@Dennis I was referring to your post :\
 
Huh?
Which one?
 
Anonymous
@quartata Who said anything about human?
 
3:21 AM
Dyalog APL?
 
ngn APL is 100% free. Dyalog works on TryAPL.
 
Some crippled online HTTP request thing doesn't count as a free interpreter.
 
@Dennis Do it. Not being able to do anything about the hordes of MATLAB answers is annoying.
 
@feersum I fail to see why. It interprets and it is free.
 
I'm sure it has time/memory/etc. limits.
 
3:23 AM
It's also what I use. I don't have the actual Dyalog APL.
 
@feersum regular dyalog apl is available as a shareware download + tryapl is 100% functional
 
If this is for 4.58302, I still haven't gotten that 4 byte :/ But as I commented 5 is easy though...
 
At least I think it is
 
I don't care. To me it isn't a free language unless you can install and run the interpreter on your own system with full rights.
 
Anonymous
@feersum Simple solution, post a code golf for dyalog apl interpreters
 
Anonymous
3:25 AM
Make other people do the work for you - management skills
 
@feersum You said "language with[out] a free interpreter", not "free language".
 
I meant "free interpreter".
 
Oh, "free" as in speech. Got it.
I always think about beer. :P
 
*hic*
 
I'm not even saying it absolutely has to be open source. But running on some remote sandbox server--no way.
Of course it has to be free as in beer too.
 
3:32 AM
I personally think tryapl is nice mostly because it lets you type in the APL chars.
 
Anonymous
Why have 2 out of the last 3 things I've said in the past 10 minutes gotten starred? You people have way too low of standards.
 
Semi dumb question but how do you reverse a string in Cjam?
 
vv Dennis answer ^^ Not-so-dumb question
waits
 
W%
:P
 
I thought you'd be faster :P
 
3:37 AM
Thanks.
 
Haha. Was busy in another tab.
I now have a score of -1 in the Mystery String challenge...
 
I have -2.5.
I tried to make creative strings. They got cracked. But my brainless ones have not been cracksd.
 
Creativity is easy to spot. Brainlessness is common. :P
 
Anonymous
Noooo Java surpassed C in the TIOBE ranking :(
 
Only exception is the PBASIC one which by the way I have posted a hint on
 
3:44 AM
:( I tried to make creative strings too - now I regret making the CJam one a number
 
4:21 AM
Safe! \o/
 
4:35 AM
⍟⍣= <--- D:
 
Initially, I was going to submit ⍟⍣=2. Then I googled it and found way too many hits for 0.31813150520476413+1.3372357014306895i. Google is a cop's worst foe...
 
5:02 AM
@Dennis Yeah, that's because s is actually O(n^2). I'm going to work on it.
 
That would explain it. O(n^2) with n=2^26...
2
 
Anonymous
5:17 AM
Should only take a few years
2
 
Still better than the O(n^n) solution I posted to your challenge. :P
 
Hey, I'm leading! I should take a screen shot, because that's not going to last long.
 
Too late. :P
 
Well, it was still on my screen. ;) I guess < 1 hour meant < 1 minute.
 
That's technically less than one hour, yes. :P
Not a very useful estimation though...
 
5:34 AM
@Dennis Fixed.
 
Anonymous
Golfing really does lead to horribly-inefficient code :P
 
That Pip 2 byte submission was more painful than I expected. Wasn't really clear at all from the documentation that anything would produce that output. Brute force to the rescue.
 
Anonymous
I have no idea what Pip even is... Google is unhelpful, only giving me the Python package manager
 
4
A: What programming languages have been created by PPCG users?

DLoscPip A golfing language created by DLosc (me), first published in April 2015. Pip is a procedural language with infix operators. It is designed to be terse but still familiar to those who know C-like languages. For instance, it shouldn't be too difficult to see why this code: Fi1,6Pi prints t...

 
There was a link to the GitHub in each post.
The most unique feature for a golfing language is that it's using infix operators, while most others seem to use postfix, and Pyth uses prefix.
 
Anonymous
5:50 AM
Ahh, suppose I should have clicked that, then
 
Running it was easy. Just a simple download, and then run it with Python, very similar to the way you install and run Pyth. Has pretty good documentation, too.
 
Anonymous
I can see why infix would be unique. Not needing parentheses for prefix and postfix is a huge help with golfing
 
@isaacg 45 seconds for all 26 letters. Neat!
 
 
1 hour later…
6:56 AM
@Sp3000 there are the number generating 8-long ><> codes too like output could be eg. `51109.1590909090909`
and you can output `1.8644067796610169` with 4-long (not that it's hard to crack, but longer than the rest we tried)
 
',n; yeah
 
7:28 AM
Just implemented a bunch more How can Pyth be improved suggestions. What's the status of that question, anyways?
 
7:42 AM
@feersum Added that as a standard loophole
 
@isaacg Hmm, doesn't say anything about claiming that free trials, crappy online versions, etc. are free interpreters.
 
0
A: Loopholes that are forbidden by default

isaacgUsing a non-free language on a Cops and Robbers challenge Most (currently all) cops and robbers challenges consist of two parts: A cop submission, where a user posts some secret property of a program, such as its output, a scrambled version of the code, etc. Then, other users, the robbers, try...

 
@feersum As long as their submission works on the free trial/crappy online version etc., I think it's valid. Online only languages would be valid, imo.
 
@isaac Seriously? You would accept a free trial as a valid interpreter?
 
I'm torn. If it's "Use for x days", maybe yes? If it's "Use for x queries", definitely no. I'm not sure.
If free trials aren't (legally) available to people whose prior free trial expired, then definiely no.
 
7:48 AM
I should start charging money for whatever esolangs I'm developing and make a bunch of CnR posts with them.
 
Anonymous
My stance is, if I can only use it for x length of time, x runs, or with limited functionality, it's out. Free and full only.
 
@Mego What about if there is a free interpreter with limited functionality, and all CnR answers using it only used the functionality available to the free interpreter?
 
Anonymous
For example: Visual Studio is proprietary, but VS Express runs C#, VB, C++/CLI, and F# code just as well. The only restrictions are on distribution of your code. Also, there's Mono for cross-platform support.
 
Anonymous
@es1024 That would be a difficult grey area to deal with. With this theoretical interpreter, there is the possibility that having the full version would make it easier to crack the cop's answer. It's much simpler and easier to enforce to ban them.
 
8:04 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Beta DecayGet the APOD! code-golf internet Challenge When the program is run, display today's Astronomy Picture of the Day. Rules You may use URL shorteners. Languages which run in the browser are disallowed. Meta: This is may change if a good enough reason is given Winning The shortest program in ...

 
Anonymous
The point is for everyone to have an equal starting point in regard to languages. The potential for people to have advantages due to having purchased proprietary interpreters is enough to warrant their banning.
 
@Mego Alternatively, there could also just be a restriction that whatever functionalities used (for both cops and robbers alike) be available in a free interpreter, rather than a restriction on the entire language
 
8:31 AM
@es1024 then the language you use is just the language of the free interpreter
 
9:07 AM
0
Q: Koopa Shell Sequence

Calvin's HobbiesIn various Super Mario games green and red Koopa Troopa shells can slide frictionlessly on flat surfaces and destroy brick blocks that are in their way. When a shell hits a brick block the block breaks, turning it into empty space, and the Koopa shell reverses direction. As an example, watch the ...

 
9:21 AM
nice challenge, and a sequence that's (probably) not present in the OEIS
 
I've found that OEIS is woefully unimaginative
 
Are you kidding me? OEIS is perfectly imaginative.
3
 
> KEYWORD dumb
3
 
keyword:dumb is basically the best way to get laughs out of OEIS :)
 
9:34 AM
@MartinBüttner My turn?
PS: For all the quine lovers: github.com/mame/quine-relay
 
@flawr that's a link
 
Oh, I just read your message when highlighted yellow, you almost cannot see the blue.
Howw???
 
12
Q: How long is your (language) snake?

LembikFollowing on from the third order quine challenge, your task is to write an Ouroboros program that uses as many languages as possible. That is, in language A, write a program pA which outputs program pB in language B. Program pB should output program pC in language C, and so on until eventually ...

Unfortunately, we didn't try hard enough on that question
 
People might get the notion that you are worse at golfing than I am, if you have to improve your submission so many times!!
@Sp3000 The top comment has exactly that link=)
 
There's also an answer
I somehow like the irony that one didn't see the other
 
9:39 AM
Oh this looks nice:
I wonder whether this guy spent more time writing the code or figuring out the design.
 
9:56 AM
@MartinBüttner It's your turn again.
 
@MartinBüttner q~2b{_1&}{({W%0+}{0+_}?}w],( maybe?
 
@flawr ugh
@Sp3000 oh, yeah, that's better. thanks
 
9
Q: Why do I get a train when I run 'ls'?

Paranoid PandaI have recently noticed something odd that I don't like very much: So why am I getting a train upon running ls? And how can I stop this and make it behave normally? Is this an Easter Egg that I have discovered? I am running Ubuntu GNOME 15.04. Information Update: Running which ls gets me the...

XD
 
I need that package!
 
sudo apt-get install sl methinks
 
10:02 AM
@Sp3000 How the hell can something like this get approved?????
 
Lunacy.
@MartinBüttner Ahaha nice - I somehow swear {}{}? might not be needed though
 
yeah, I'm looking into that right now
I have an idea
hm, I tried e&, but I'm having trouble leaving something on the stack for 0
 
10:18 AM
Slightly too long: q~2b{_1&}{W%)!{W%_}*0+}w],(
Equal: q~2b{_1&}{(W\"\%"=~0+}w],(
Actually... this maybe? q~2b{_1&}{W\('%*~0+}w],( @MartinBüttner
 
@BetaDecay Wait, you haven't installed that already? >.>
@BetaDecay Also look into this. c:
 
10:41 AM
You guys had me browsing Ask Ubuntu for a moment there and... well... :/ (link)
 
@Sp3000 heh, I had the same idea while having lunch :D
the '%*~ is neat, but it doesn't seem shorter than {%}*
 
Ah true - that'd be better CJam style ;)
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE I'm sure I have at some point.
@MartinBüttner Or any other PPCG vets, is Get the APOD a dupe? I'd be surprised if it isn't
 
@Sp3000 That just makes me sad to look at. o-o
 
@BetaDecay You might want to explain what the APOD is and where to get it.
Anyway, it might be some indirect dupe of something else, but it doesn't seem terribly interesting to be honest. Won't it just be fetching a fixed URL, and maybe a bit HTML scraping?
 
10:50 AM
I was thinking that the actual display of the image would be more interesting
 
"interesting" as in "limiting the challenge to languages which can render graphics to the screen"? ;)
btw: "http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html"~Import~"Images"
 
Damn it haha.
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

muddyfishAcronyms can really obviously narrow your message sensors. code-golf Because of this, you need a better way of working out if a phrase is an acronym of a word. You also think it would be worthwhile to see if the phrase and word in question are recursive acronyms. Your task: Given a word and ...

 
11:11 AM
-1
Q: Find if the characters of the sample string is in the same order in the text string

Show StopperHi I have a sample string . I need to find if the characters of the sample string is in the same order in the text string TextString: abcSjhgAhCjhAaaHaaaIfhN Sample string :SACAHIN Output : True

 
Fun fact: Despite having an awful load of last month, there have only been 5 this month so far
 
11:30 AM
challenge idea: input is a word [a-z]*, output is a permutation of letters, where no two adjacent letters are the same (if that is not possible remove the least amount of chars to make it possible), is it a duplicate?
eg. aabbaacd-> ababacda
 
11:59 AM
I just noticed there is still just one answer 0.o
26
Q: Home improvement for the Minotaur

flawrHome improvement for the Minotaur The cretan labyrinth is quite easy to draw. Just start with a symmetric shape (here in red). Let us call all the endpoints of those lines 'nodes'. Then you begin drawing the arches (black): The first one alway begins in the top middle node and connects to the n...

I just do not get how so many people upvote but do not answer???
 
It's a good question that nobody wants to attempt to answer due to complexity.
Also: how do I use super text?
Like, how TIs represent 2^3, the ^3 bit.
 
But it cannot be so complex???
 
@flawr I was considering doing it in CJam, but I don't have any better idea than Anders's solution and I don't like porting existing answers to golfier languages to beat them.
 
I see. It is just somewhat disappointing if you put effort in a challenge, and almost nobody participates. I mean if it gets downvoted you know you did something wrong, but this got upvoted quite a few times, so people seem to like it!
This is what grinds my gears =)
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Sp3000*Overwrit*labels string code-golf If you've ever tried adding labels to a really dense plot, then you'll realise that sometimes labels will overlap one another, making them hard to read. We're going to do something similar but in 1D. Input will be a sequence of (label, x-coordinate) pairs, and ...

0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

VTCAKAVSMoACELearn a New Programming Language golfing-advicegolfing-languagestipscops-and-robbers I've been here a few months now, and I've noticed the ridiculous amount of languages used and exploited in code-golf. However, documentation can sometimes be lax, and understanding can sometimes be limited, but...

 
12:14 PM
@Sp3000 have you tried your own challenge in CJam?
 
No, and actually I was curious how it could be done in CJam
Seeing how setting to an array slice doesn't seem to be something people do often
 
@Sp3000 I have 24
 
Oh? Nice, that sounds pretty decent for a first attempt
 
Is taking a list of strings and then a list of their x-coordinates too much preprocessing of the input?
oh wait, that wouldn't even save anything
 
@NewSandboxedPosts Well that was down voted quickly. o-o I can see the broad part of it being a problem, but seriously - it may be of interest to a lot of users.
 
12:21 PM
@VTCAKAVSMoACE Apart from what Sp3000 mentioned in the comment, I don't see how this is really related to learning a new language... i.e. how do you actually encourage using languages you don't already know really well?
 
0
Q: Make your language unusable

jimmy23013Try to write some code in your language and make it not satisfying our criteria of being a programming language any more. A language satisfies our criteria (simplified version for this challenge) of being a programming language if: It can read user input representing tuples of positive integer...

 
@Sp3000 Lq~{~0c*'*+\+\.e|}/0c/S*
 
The whole idea behind it is just make something you want to make. They get to choose what they want to create, which means that they might be more tempted to try it.
 
@MartinBüttner Yeah I think so. I'll see if I can word it okay, but thanks for pointing that out
 
@MartinBüttner For example, if I set a challenge, it would have to be fairly simple if I wanted to make it fair, but then I'd have to remove the byte count limit. It then becomes simple tedium in most languages to do simple tasks.
 
12:28 PM
I'm not sure if I just complicated things with that shrugs
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE I don't understand. What byte count limit?
 
> Cops' code must be at least 8 bytes.
 
@MartinBüttner Ah, e|. Totally forgot about that
 
@Sp3000 doing it manually is shorter (so that I don't have to use null bytes): Lq~{~S*'*+\+.{_S&@@?}}/
@VTCAKAVSMoACE Oh, by "if I set a challenge" you mean if you set a fixed task for the cops?
 
Precisely.
 
12:36 PM
There there, you've got at least a day to think about it before I post :P
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE I don't understand what the second sentence has to do with the byte limit though.
 
@MartinBüttner In most golfing languages, simple tasks are fairly short, so having a byte limit gives an advantage to the robbers.
 
but with the 8-byte count limit, most answers in normal languages will be impossible to golf
especially if the cop can choose what the program should do
 
No, no - they must be at least 8 bytes.
 
12:39 PM
Oh.
 
I'm saying the limit is irrelevant for normal languages, because any program will be longer than 8 bytes anyway
 
This challenge will mostly be directed at golfing languages, to be fair.
 
I doubt the cops who want their submissions to be safe will care about that :P
 
The limit is there to prevent people using golfing languages from doing something super easy, not really much else.
Again, though, the cops won't (supposedly) have used the language. There's likely a shorter way to do it.
 
You know, the way this conversation is going makes me think that you'll have more deliberately-must-be-safe submissions than actual learning attempts
Might be wrong though
 
12:42 PM
@VTCAKAVSMoACE "the cops won't (supposedly) have used the language" - I think that's the problem here. how are you going to ensure or even encourage that?
 
There's no way to do that, but, again, this isn't really about winning.
It's about finding shorter ways to do code in languages you want to learn.
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE I'm not sure a PPCG challenge is proper medium in that case. ;)
 
@MartinBüttner So should I post this as a wiki question and only allow votes to be the deciding factor, not making it a , but perhaps a with a focus on golfing? (i.e. no winner)
 
I personally don't really think it fits on PPCG in its current form at all, and would expect it to be closed as too broad very quickly.
 
Hmm... okay then. The reason for posting it here rather than another location is that the creators of a lot of golfing languages peruse these places. It would be easier to get advice here than anywhere else.
 
12:49 PM
@VTCAKAVSMoACE True, but as Sp said, this is happening already. If someone has a question, they can usually find the creators of the language here in chat, and if someone posts an answer in a language they are not familiar with they will often get golfing advice in the comments anyway.
 
But people won't want to post in a language they don't know very well, so there's no way to get suggestions.
Except by reading a lot and having a basic foundation for it in the first place.
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE If people aren't interested in learning new languages, then I don't think your challenge would change that. People who are interested in learning new languages regular do so (I learned Ruby and CJam just to use them for golfing, and probably a dozen less useful esolangs as well).
 
@MartinBüttner Mm. True enough. Alright, question deleted.
 
I learned way too many languages thanks to Martin's stupid quiz :P
2
(for varying degrees of "learning")
 
Dammit I was hoping I'd get the first answer on the unusable language challenge
 
Anonymous
I may have conceived the best (or worst) challenge idea yet. Posting it in sandbox
 
Don't worry, it can't be the worst :)
 
0
A: Make your language unusable

quartataJava class D { static { System.out.close(); } public static void main(String[] a) {} } You can insert your code pretty much anywhere; it won't matter. This closes STDOUT, which makes Java no longer a programming language since it does not have a transformational model.

Hahaha
 
@quartata "Your code should print the result (that can practically contain at least 1 bit information..."
 
1:38 PM
@Sp3000 Wait, what?
 
I admit the spec's a bit confusing to me, but it sounds to me like submissions need to be able to output at least two different things (1 bit of information)
Might be good to check though
 
OK just read it again...
That's really strange.
I don't get it.
 
@jimmy23013 ^^ clarifications?
 
So basically it says "make your language unusable" but "make it so that inserted code runs normally anyways"
 
Martin's Emmental one is a good example
 
1:42 PM
I think what he's saying is that the inserted code has to be able to run...
But I don't get all the other stuff
 
e.g.?
 
Your code should print the result (that can practically contain at least 1 bit information, for example, not restricted in the type struct {} or struct {private:int x;} in C++) of the inserted code, if a code block cannot output things directly in the language you are using.
 
@Sp3000 I don't think he's been in chat recently enough
 
I guess this is just for if it can't output directly. Still strange
 
Ah, does it not ping?
 
1:44 PM
@Sp3000 if it doesn't auto-complete it doesn't ping
 
@MartinBüttner Is my deleted Java answer OK?
 
@quartata For a start there are other valid output methods.
"Programs may output using their exit code...", "Programs may output to a file"
 
Output using their exit code is only for output with an integer though which means there are inputs it can't turn into outputs
Output to a file I hadn't thought of though
 
@quartata output via a single integer is still sufficient for the tasks a language needs to complete to fulfil the criteria
and you can define any encoding on a single integer (e.g. Funciton only has integers as data types, but can still encode strings and lists in such an integer)
 
Anonymous
Besides, that Java code could be usable again: ideone.com/OvYFdt
 
2:22 PM
I should have saved my mystery string solution. Now let's try to crack it from some shady memory...
 
@Mego I know next to nothing about OOP. Could you clarify a few things about your question for me? I want to make sure I got it right...
 
Anonymous
@Dennis Sure, what do you need clarified?
 
First, B is a A. is not the same as A is a B., yes?
 
Anonymous
@Dennis Correct.
 
Great.
 
Anonymous
2:29 PM
You can think of it as an acyclic digraph, where the nodes have an ID field (consisting of the name of the class) and a set of contained items.
 
Haha, I don't know much about graphs either...
Second question: Can your statements begin with a member name? For example, criminal_record is a document or criminal_record has ink?
 
@Rainbolt Smeagol and Deagol aren't brothers
 
Anonymous
No. The is-a statements are strictly about the class hierarchy. Member objects do not belong to a class hierarchy for the sake of this challenge, though that would be a fun extension.
 
Phew. I think I would have gotten criminal_record is a document right, but criminal_record has ink would have messed up my entire idea.
Thanks for clarifying! :)
 
Anonymous
No problem! I can add those clarifications to the question if you'd like.
 
2:36 PM
The first one seems obvious. Stating that statements cannot begin with a member name might be a good idea though.
Fifth safe cop! \o/
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

MegoGolfing Golf Golfing is hard. Even the best of us miss stuff that can shave off a few bytes. Inspired by this question, I decided what better way to improve our golfing than to write programs to do it for us? The Challenge You must write a program (or function, it doesn't matter) that, when gi...

 
Anonymous
@NewSandboxedPosts Like I said, either the best or the worst I've thought of. The jury's still out.
 
I swear we've had a question like that...
 
Anonymous
I looked but didn't see anything. Granted, I'm not great at the search function. EDIT: or spelling "function"
 
24
Q: Write a code golfer

Mateen UlhaqYour job, should you choose to not refuse it, is to write a program that will "golf" a piece of given code in your language of choice. Basic functionality: Remove extraneous whitespace Remove comments 'Advanced' functionality: Combine declarations (int x; int y; int z; to int x, y, z;) Use...

 
2:48 PM
@Sp3000 I swear we have too
 
Anonymous
@Sp3000 I'd argue that my challenge is different from that, because it is a code-challenge rather than a popularity-contest, has a scoring system, and the additional constraint that solutions must golf their own language
 
@Mego One last question: Could the input contain Cop is a Cop? and, if yes, what would be the correct answer?
 
Anonymous
@Dennis Yes, and true.
 
OK. That, I'll have to fix.
 
Anonymous
I didn't even consider adding that to any of the test cases. I should do that now...
 
2:55 PM
@NewSandboxedPosts Looking through the tag may help too
 
Anonymous
@trichoplax I wasn't even aware of the existence of that tag until now, thanks
 
@Mego I wasn't either, until I posted to the sandbox suggesting a challenge to automatically golf an input program. Peter Taylor pointed out the tag to me
 
Anonymous
@trichoplax Helpful to know. I still assert that my challenge is different enough from the others that have been posted to not be a duplicate
 
@Mego If my Python answer was print input(), then my score would be 13, right? (I'm assuming lower score is better btw.)
 
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