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Dave Liepmann
Dave Liepmann
3:36 AM
@RobinAshe What kind of BJJ guys are you seeing hit this guillotine?
@RobinAshe and re: "when they reach over for the [guillotine] choke, they make themselves top heavy" --the guys I see hit this are sitting back for the choke, not coming on top -- do you really see this just not happening?
 
 
5 hours later…
Robin Ashe
Robin Ashe
8:15 AM
to make the guillotine work, you need a 90 degree angle with your arm relative to their spine
the more off you are, the less likely it is to work, and you really end up more wrenching on the neck
so you'll get taps from people with bad or weak necks
to be able to get that, you need to have your spine aligned at least at 45 degrees to the ground, and that's assuming they're coming in with a bad takedown with their spine parallel to the ground, if they come in with a good head up, hips lower than shoulders takedown
it's even harder to get the right angle on the choke
it's the same problem when you're already in guard, if you just reach up for the guillotine, you'll never get it
you need to scoot your hips back first to have any chance of keeping it
then there's the issue that even if they get the guillotine in properly, all you need to do is drive forward, head up, rather than trying to tuck your chin
if they're doing a head only guillotine, you reach over and guillotine them, it creates a stalemate
if they're doing an arm in guillotine, they can finish it best if you tuck your chin in, so again, keep driving forward
and either way, grab their wrist and pull to create a bit of space, even if you can't peel it off, it's enough to not pass out
you can ham it up by throwing in some raspy breathing, make them think they're close, they squeeze harder, tire their arm out
eventually they'll have to give up, and then you're fighting someone who only has one arm
the best thing anyone can do for me with a takedown is to keep their chin tucked, best way to sprawl is to put my hand on the back of their head, and it's easier to sprawl on someone whose forehead is pointed at the ground
once I get their forehead on the ground, I've got all the options I need - head only guillotine, arm in guillotine, anaconda, darce, Japanese necktie
if they come in with head up, and I don't successfully sprawl, the only thing I have is the guillotine, it's not something I'm taking because it was the best option, it's something I'm taking because there wasn't anything else
as for dumping them over your back, if your head is pointed up, and you've got a good shoulders over hips posture, if they're at a remotely good position to get the guillotine, their head is over your butt, forehead pointing to the ground, perfect position for them to do a forward roll, so it's easy to help them over with a combination high-crotch/fireman's carry/suplex
i'm not quite so good at that myself, preferring upper body takedowns to the legs, so I go for standing up and doing a standing cradle for the optimum side-mount position before going down
fully inverting to come down in north south is also a good option
when it comes to a wrestler transitioning to BJJ, I'd never want them to modify their takedown because of the guillotine
i'd want to teach them how to counter it after the fact
because then they have a high percentage takedown, followed by a high percentage counter
I also wouldn't want them switching to an outside leg trip to avoid ending up inside guard
i'd want to teach them very solid guard passing and defense skills, as it's something they'd need to learn anyway
 
 
10 hours later…
Ho-Sheng Hsiao
Ho-Sheng Hsiao
7:05 PM
@DavidH.Clements I participate in a lot of hands-on exchanges. I've seen a lot of different types of people come and go through the practice grounds. Some are stuck in themselves, much like people here are stuck on themselves. I agree that it is good to go seeking out into the unknown. I'm also saying the SE tends to reinforce the kind of small-minded, narrow perspectives that gets brought aboard.
While I trust the SE moderation works for Q&A about software development, system administration, etc. it does not work for martial arts, though it works for martial techniques. In fact, Quora is a much better place for martial arts than SE, and even that is limited. Perhaps I can return the suggestion of the favor: look outside of Google and the Internet. You can't find the virtues of arete, perseverance, mushin, on Google. And you won't find it in SE -- only in practice.
Anyways, good luck with what you're trying to do here @DavidH.Clements.
 

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