ELL's Cabin

Question Titles isn't the only thing that needs sweeping. We need to retag like 25% of the overall questions. None of the new questions I see are properly tagged.

tchrist

Didn’t I already explain all this? You need to edit every single incoming post as soon as it comes in to normalize and sanitize it.

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M i.stack.imgur.com/5zRyS.jpg

tchrist

Every. Single. One.

You’ve let it go too long, and now you’ll simply never catch up.

Now, as for tags themselves being poor, that’s something else.

By which I mean badly named tags, not badly chosen ones.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@TCh I think Shog or Jon is the person responsible for setting up migration paths, or prolly A.Lear (who is easy to contact in the Tavern) We™ can get to agreement with them.

@snailboat That's not too bad.

tchrist

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Sure they can. That isn’t the issue.

Anonymous

7:10 PM

We did a tag cleanup on Japanese.SE a couple months ago, and it went fairly well, although there's still a lot of retagging that could be done. But we got rid of a lot of bad tags, renamed or merged tags where appropriate, worked on tag descriptions, did some retagging as we went.

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M No, it's okay, but maybe it's fixable.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@tchrist I'm almost certain 70% of the ELL don't care; 20% say yes and 10% say no. I don't think us pessimists are at an overwhelming disadvantage.

tchrist

@snailboat A lot of it simply has to be done by a mod.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

A cool mod.

Anonymous

@tchrist Yeah, I was participating on Japanese.SE, so I did a lot of the legwork :-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

7:12 PM

@snailboat It makes me uneasy to say this, but many ELLers are just showing apathy.

Anonymous

japanese.stackexchange.com/tags/synonyms

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

They're saying "I wanna get my question answered" and the answerers say "I wanna help you"; not every one not every time says "Let's take a look at the bigger picture and see how my tagging, title-writing or question content contributes to ELL."

Anonymous

I wonder if people would be willing to use the tags written in Japanese as primary these days, if I brought it up again.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Which kinda annoys me.

Damkerng T.

A tag cleanup would be a tough job on ELL.

Actually, I use a different set of tags to tag ELL questions in my bookmarks.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

7:15 PM

I've written the dang "how to title"; and the only people that visited it are the ones that didn't need the guidance in it. And this, is annoying me.

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M No one on ELL has a duty to edit, clean up tags, and so forth. If they help even a little, that's a positive thing, not a failure to do more.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat No one on SE site has such duty.

Damkerng T.

Basically, they're not about "what" the question is about, but "why" the asker asked it.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

But they should at least cooperate.

Anonymous

I think that with a rallying cry, you can get folks who care to help out.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

7:16 PM

@snailboat Let's see what happens on Sat.

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M This kind of thing takes time to propagate, I believe.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

If the only ones volunteering to help brush up the germs in titles are chat regs, what did I need the event for?

Anonymous

I would give people a very specific call to action. Like, you could create a set of questions to look at, divide them up among volunteers, and ask each volunteer to start going through the list. Are you doing anything like that?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

But hopefully, we'll get some 5-10 people willing to help.

tchrist

@snailboat I made the Portuguese primary, but you still have issues. You can up having like 8 tags apiece that way. Singular and plural. With and without accents. Brazilian or Portuguese.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

7:17 PM

@snailboat Yep.

tchrist

Then there's the English. And that isn't even counting actual synonyms.

Anonymous

There's a bit of a terminological mess to sort through in any case, even in just one language. I can't imagine that's not true as well in Portuguese.

tchrist

@snailboat There was an argument against that, if I recall.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Snail we can have two possible approaches: 1. Search-based cleanup. (Which could leave a few questions unnoticed if not very precisely planned) and 2. Page based cleanup. As in, starting the cleanup from the very beginning of the questions.

Hullo @Knotviz! Welcome to the chatroom!

Anonymous

The Japanese infinitive―no wait, continuative―no wait, conjunctive―no wait, Vmasu form―no wait, -i form―no wait, "the stem"―has as many names in Japanese as it has in English.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

7:20 PM

"no wait, continuative" is the coolest grammar terminology ever.

tchrist

@snailboat There is, there is. Just try figuring out what to call disjunctions in a way that both sides of the Atlantic will be happy about. It isn't just different accent marks reflecting different vowel sounds (econômico in pt_BR vs económico in pt_PT) but completely different terms altogether.

Anonymous

@tchrist At the very least, beginning learners can ready particle-yori but not 助詞「より」, while speakers of Japanese can generally read either.

tchrist

That's a good argument for English primary.

Well, Latin.

Catija

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Um... it was linked in my ELU answer...

tchrist

Rōmaji?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

7:21 PM

@Catija ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm not a meta reader when I'm not a meta reader.

tchrist

@Catija He doesn’t read posts, just headlines. He already has his mind made up so does not dare risk reading.

Enjoy the parse.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Mumbles I don't need to read.

Seriously though, if you have some news about someone who gets tortured or whines about downvotes or rants in meta, call me in.

Catija

@tchrist Then he won't mind if I opt not to read his five-page treatise on question titles.

Damkerng T.

Perhaps the description for the close-reason should include this warning: please only migrate to ELL if you know ELL well and are sure it would fit there. — Cerberus 3 hours ago

Ahh... that's our Cerberus.

tchrist

@Catija He was supposed to get that down to four discrete points.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

7:23 PM

Anyhoo, I've read up enough on migration that I realize you shouldn't lend it to any kid with 3k rep.

@Catija You don't need to read that.

Catija

@DamkerngT. Yeah... that would be really confusing to the person who asked the question.

Anonymous

@Catija I'm lost in this discussion, but you can probably read any post you like and judge it on its own merits rather than by who wrote it.

tchrist

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Site meta.

Catija

@snailboat I'm teasing @inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M because he's telling @tchrist and me to read an answer on Meta.SE that has really useful information... which we've both linked to in our answers :D If he's not going to bother reading our answers, I'm not going to bother reading his :P

tchrist

@Catija Je n’ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n’ai pas eu le loisir de la faire plus courte.

Anonymous

7:26 PM

@Catija Oh, I missed the subtext, as usual :-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@tchrist Per site metas are full of enthusiasts who'll shriek when they see something new and shiny. If you don't get to have someone with Martin's discipline, you're overwhelmed. It's not always easy to make them realize "Ahh, that means this sucks. Seems legit" though.

Catija

@tchrist HA HA. Indeed.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Catija I'M NOT TEASED I SWEAR!

@tchrist Are you saying I'm cool or something close to that?

Catija

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M This is how I imagine you right now:

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Catija Not you and TC, you and Stoney. There's a difference. ಠ_ಠ

Catija

7:28 PM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M My bad.

tchrist

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Chulo chulo chulo, te quiero chulo, chavalín.

Anonymous

Searching Google Images for 'frizzy hair' is amusing.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Catija I wish this was close to reality, but I met the barber two days ago.

Anonymous

I think this is my favorite:

Anonymous

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

7:30 PM

@tchrist Yes, chaval(letter unavailable)n indeed. I dunno what that is.

Catija

@snailboat That's a lot of hair :P

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat Nice pillow.

But rain will render it dysfunctional.

tchrist

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Chavs never do.

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Don't put your pillows where it rains!

Catija

@snailboat Advice to live by.

Anonymous

7:32 PM

I'm full of useful advice.

Damkerng T.

I wonder how she would look like when she wakes up in the morning.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. Reverse pillow style.

Damkerng T.

My hair never looks good when I wake up, and it's not very long!

Catija

Damkerng T.

LOL

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

7:34 PM

My face never looks good when I wake up.

Anonymous

My hair is about a meter long.

Catija

HA HA HA... pillow head.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

My hair is about 1 centimeter long.

Anonymous

Ahahaha! Wow.

Anonymous

What a great picture.

Damkerng T.

7:36 PM

Hahaha!

Anonymous

(Note: exclamative without an exclamation point!)

Catija

She looks like she's in a runway show...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Catija That's an organic escape pod.

Anonymous

Zombie eye makeup, too.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Wig makers need you. :P

Catija

7:37 PM

@snailboat Mine never gets that long... even if I don't cut it it stops at about two feet.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Anyone who comes near my hair with scissors is going to end up very unhappy.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat Maybe we need chainsaws?

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Just a moment, I need to warm up my eye lasers.

Catija

Damkerng T.

7:40 PM

Haha!

Catija

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

So you were a cat!

Anonymous

Wow!

Damkerng T.

I should teach my cat to do that sometimes!

Catija

Sorry, needed a snail one.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

7:40 PM

I knew that hippo was a disguise!

Anonymous

Who knew there was a snail emitting eye lasers picture online?

Catija

@snailboat There's like... five... drawception.com/pub/panels/2015/5-13/z7nqwTrKXp-10.png

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. Teach him to do this:

Catija

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M So cute!

Damkerng T.

Aww

He was quite like that before.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

7:43 PM

@DamkerngT. Then you can make him do this:

Damkerng T.

Oh, that's a counter-attack!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Show that image to Hagu and tell what he does.

Anonymous

That image is terrifying.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Will he go crazy and try to take over the world?

Will he try to concentrate like master Yoda does?

Damkerng T.

おっさんのように寝る猫 - Cat sleep like a man

►

Hmm... and I thought my cat was unique...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

7:46 PM

@DamkerngT. He looks like me when I try to sleep. Except my eyes would be open.

There are weird GIFs all over the Net.

Damkerng T.

This one is cute!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Anonymous

Hey, ELL and Japanese.SE have the same number of 20k users. Just six!

Damkerng T.

8:03 PM

Oh, wait. What is the minimum rep to vote?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. Vote to what?

Upcoats?

VTCs?

And in which site?

Anonymous

It's different for upvotes, downvotes, close and reopen votes, and delete votes.

Damkerng T.

In the coming election on JSLE.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. 150 rep.

Damkerng T.

Oh, looks like I can vote. :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

8:05 PM

Hmm OMG I need to get repz to vote for SNAILBOAT!

Arigado!

Anonymous

Oh!

Anonymous

Sorry, I misunderstood.

tchrist

Obrigado

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

^ @Snail is that enough Japanese?

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I wasn't clear. Sorry!

Anonymous

8:06 PM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M It's arigatō :-)

Anonymous

Or ありがとう in Japanese writing.

Catija

@tchrist That's Portuguese.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ That must mean I'm a Japanese linguist.

Anonymous

@Catija There are still people who believe arigatō is related to obrigado, though it's not actually.

tchrist

@snailboat You know these furry folk caint spell.

@Catija Não sabia.

Catija

8:07 PM

@snailboat Wha? Seriously? How interesting.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@tchrist I'm like a bird in a cage when I don't have LaTeX.

Anonymous

@Catija Yeah, it's a popular folk etymology. They're false cognates.

tchrist

I keep waiting for the question. :)

Anonymous

20

Q: Did ありがとう come from Portuguese "obrigado"?

I have heard before that ありがとう came from the word "obrigado" in Portuguese. Is this true and is there any evidence to support this, or is it an old wives' tale?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Urban legetymology.

tchrist

8:11 PM

tempura

Damkerng T.

Yummy.

tchrist

That one might be real.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

BTW @snail is the election really comin'?

Catija

@snailboat Hey, the answer has a comment from another Snail :D

Anonymous

@Catija Yes! I miss Mechanical Snail.

Anonymous

8:12 PM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yes?

tchrist

@snailboat Did something . . . happen?

Anonymous

6

Q: Congratulations! Japanese Language is graduating!

It's a big day. You've been cleared for graduation by the Stack Exchange Community Team! Japanese Language met our threshold for graduation-worthy sites and after a review, the Community Team determined that you're good to go. Reaching 'mature community' status is a big milestone, and you should ...

discussion featured graduation

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Is it over?

Anonymous

@tchrist Not as far as I know. He stopped being active on language sites quite a while back, and then I think stopped being active on tech sites a little while later.

Anonymous

I'm not aware of any sort of incident that could have caused him to leave.

Anonymous

8:14 PM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M This announcement is from today, so the election is in the future.

Anonymous

We'll see if I end up blue or not after it's over :-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat Weird; since ELL's announcement is also for today while its election is over.

@snailboat Pro tems have a goooooood chance of retaining the blue name.

Catija

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M The announcement had to wait until the technical stuff was over. ELL was farther ahead in the queue for graduation, I'm guessing, and it had louder voices over on Meta, so it got early tracked.

Anonymous

Maybe ELL was beta testing the new process. :-)

Anonymous

And now the process has graduated!

Anonymous

8:16 PM

(Maybe we can get rid of this whole "beta" label.)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Catija Or maybe the template was waiting. O.o Well, it's early September, so ELL's must have been unofficial while Japanese.SE is going to graduate in an official way.

Catija

@snailboat You mean entirely or for some sites? I know Robert wants to get rid of "graduated"...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Weird: Why aren't your meta posts in Japanese @Snail?

-6

Q: Site name “Japanese Language and Usage” is illogical

The site name “Japanese Language and Usage” sounds like a logical error to me, and it should be changed to either “Japanese Language and Its Usage” or simply “Japanese Language.” I can parse the current title only as either (1) “Japanese [Language and Usage]” or (2) “[Japanese Language] and [Usa...

discussion

Huh x 2?

Anonymous

8:34 PM

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M When I joined Japanese.SE, there were some people with the opinion, stated rather strongly, that the site should be in English but about Japanese.

Anonymous

If you ask a question in Japanese, though, you can generally expect an answer in Japanese.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat Weird, since AFAILC French and German are in French and German, though CM's sometimes have a hard time finding out what they say.

Anonymous

8:46 PM

French.SE is in a mixture of French and English.

Anonymous

German.SE is in a mixture of German and English.

Anonymous

Say, what's AFAILC? I've encountered a lot of variations on AFAI*, but I'm not familiar with that one.

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M The suggested parses are [Japanese [Language and Usage]] or [[Japanese Language] and [Usage]]. I do think it's true that the "and usage" part doesn't really mean anything.

Anonymous

A while after that was posted, they dropped it from every language site except ELU (which I suppose needs "& Usage" because the ampersand is the heart of the site) and ELL (which never had it in the first place).

Anonymous

I think their actual rationale for keeping it on ELU was different, but that's the rationale that makes sense to me :-)

Anonymous

8:54 PM

6

Q: What does "usage" mean in "English Language and Usage"?

What in the word usage adds scope to the site name English Language? The topic of language includes its own usage, doesn't it? And if the usage is redundant, is there a reason why we thought it helpful/necessary to emphasize that part of language in the name of the site?

discussion site

Anonymous

To be honest, I miss writing JLU.

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