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1:51 AM
"Ohhhhh if I had a hamm-mer, I'd close questions in the moorrrrning, I'd close questions in the evening, I'd close questions in the afternooooon"
17 hours later…
6:23 PM
@jonsca please stop singing, you're hurting my head.
His songs are like a hammer, hammering our brains in the morning, hammering our brains in the evening, hammering us all day looooong...
Been quiet in here!
Except for @jonsca's singing of course
I'm quite busy at the moment.
Testing some students, programming another experiment in a week or so.
I'm also quite tired.
6:40 PM
Busy is good!
Work's been keeping me busy.
6:57 PM
But I want to relax and do nothing for a while :P
I know that feeling!!!
Did that around Christmas, it was awesome
7:59 PM
@Jeff @jonsca and @BenBrocka: I had a conversation with an SE team member, and brought up the name change during that. I was advised to focus on growing our community first. The general feedback I got was that we should focus on adding more content to attract users, rather than focusing on the name
I don't believe the team thinks the name is detracting from visitors. You're more than welcome to try and prove them wrong :-)
But we should be concerned with dwindling usage and low active users, visits/views, and low percentage of questions answered.
Also @jonsca and @BenBrocka, I talked a bit about the Mind proposal. It doesn't seem it will be killed off at all. If we want to stop it, we should find a way to make those questions on topic here. As it stands, they are crafting out a topic niche for themselves.
@JoshGitlin Do they actually have any questions we'd want?
@BenBrocka I don't know...
> Which supplements for improving memory have solid research? Is there evidence that they work over the long-term?
> Recently, there have been claims that mindfulness-based practices can actually mitigate clinical depression - under what circumstances is this valid?
@JoshGitlin honestly I think the name might be part of that site, easier to grasp. But it being easier to grasp might have brought some of the less desirable users I see all over it's example questions
What came as a shock to me was that questions like this would be acceptable on a Stack Exchange site:
> How should one ideally help treat a friend with depression?
Apparently they're okay with medical / legal advice, given disclaimers and quality controls
So, we might not be able to stop Mind. it might become a pseudoscience junk bin...
@BenBrocka This was mentioned to me also. We're cautioned not to come up with a name that's "too basic" lest we lose academic users)
I hear everyone's concerns over the name, and I've expressed it to the team a few times. I keep getting the response "there's more important issues", so I'm going to focus on the other issues. Don't let that stop you all from voicing your concerns yourselves!
8:15 PM
@JoshGitlin Yeah, I guess better there than here
Maybe we can get non-crackpot questions closed as off topic on that site, to be migrated here
Yeah. And this is of course if it gets into beta, which is a big if.
@BenBrocka lmao, yes.
Seriously though, are they thinking something like ELL vs EL&U?
They're thinking "Let the Area 51 process work itself out" :-)
But the example you gave is a good one
They didn't say Mind was on track to get launched or be a good site. They just said that it's not a problem if the questions are wanting others to give medical / layman / non-scientific advice
I'm less concerned about the legal implications (which are probably minimal, which is why they think it's fine) and more concerned about the pseudoscience/nonscience that looks ready to proliferate all over the site
It was Anna I was talking to @Ben, you can ping her in the TL and discuss it with her specifically if you'd like. I can't really explain their logic, because I don't agree. I think we should have Cog Sci and Mind should be closed as a dupe, but...
@BenBrocka I agree, it will be filled with pseudoscience from the looks of it.
But that will be another mod's problem ;-)
As long as Cog Sci flourishes, I will be happy!
8:20 PM
I'd probably get more agitated over it than you would, I'll just leave it be
You might :-) My easygoing nature helped me say "What? really? okay... if you say so!"
I do want to start a Meta question about ideas to promote our site, something like Chemistry did
Q: How do we promote our shiny new site?

F'xOne of The 7 Essential Meta Questions of Every Beta. How do we promote our site? How to reach out to the experts and other potential users? At this stage in the site's development, we're not talking about big events or promotional material, but we need to get the word out that this site exists....

@JoshGitlin that'd be nice to throw on Bio
Sadly I am not a researcher or student, and the university here is very small, so I can't do much promotion locally. But I can email professors / universities / groups and try and attract new users that way.
I also want to review our unanswered questions and see if we can find out why we're at only 81%
9:11 PM
Hey there @Indolering
How goes?
9:34 PM
@JoshGitlin Yeah I don't have much ability to spread the word myself
Maybe Steven and Jeromy can help us more there
Jeromy's reddit and blog posts helped a lot
I can email / call professors and create posters, but that's about all
10:10 PM
It's okay
Checking in on what the chat room is for
@Indolering General discussion about the Cog Sci site
And for poking at @jonsca
That's our favorite pastime here
@JoshGitlin Yeah, but there are all sorts of definitions for that : )
I like what you were saying earlier about the question quality
@Indolering Our chat's quiet enough that this single room can encompass it all
@Indolering I'm open to any and all ideas to improve!
This is also a good place to discuss specific questions
Feel free to post links to questions here
@JoshGitlin I have a hard enough time with general psych lit, I'm not sure if a Q/A format can resist the pop-psych bin
I have hopes that it can
10:17 PM
We will see!
Well, my main reason for hitting this place is for resource questions.
But that's hard to format for Q/A
Right now, I am looking for a mathematics test that has been normed to the population
Or to the GRE or some IQ tests
@Indolering You mean questions that are lists of resources, and don't have a specific correct answer?
But how is that any different from "What is the best IDE for node development"
@BenBrocka @JoshGitlin If you'd like an outsider's point of view, here's my 2 cents. I've been following the newsletter for a while now as I'm somewhat working in the area, though coming from computer science, I rarely have anything quite suitable (question or answer) - I think I managed a single question on this site.
10:20 PM
@Indolering Feel free to either ask in here, or start a new chat room (or I can do this for you). Chat is a great place for subjective questions like that
But from reading the questions in the newsletter, I get the feeling that CogSci has a similar problem to most SE sites that, in this case, just gets exacerbated by its nature: Amateurs ask questions and experts answer
We had this room, although it became inactive:

 CogSci Reading Room

Book Recommendations for Neurobiology, Psychology, and Cogniti...
@ThomasH I do very much want everyone's view!
That's great for the amateurs in most cases, but can get frustrating quickly for the experts. In an area like CogSci, it is much harder for an amateur to ask a question that an expert finds interesting (as opposed to a novice programmer stumbling across an interesting quirk of C that the experts then go mad over trying to figure out)
@ThomasH I agree. I wish I could help with this more; however, I am an amateur in this area. As a moderator, I bring great experience with the Stack Exchange system, but not much experience with Cognitive Sciences.
I think what this site is missing a lot is questions from experts
10:22 PM
@ThomasH Agreed completely.
@ThomasH I know that @BenBrocka, @jonsca and Artem all agree with you here
So the question is, how do you attract experts to pose clear and answerable questions?
I'd love to see the site be used by experts, with experts answering each other's questions. I learn a lot from reading expert questions. But I don't have the expertise to ask them myself.
@ThomasH This is the $1,000,000 question
I don't have the answer... looks at @TimStone
Josh wins the community evangelist award.
\o/ I try! :-)
I could translate all of my homework questions into stack exchange questions, flashcard style.
That's the funny bit, psych majors rely on multiple choice testing.
Maybe you should try digging through that material to classify question types.
10:26 PM
@Indolering You certainly can! Ask and answer, wiki style. More content helps us grow
Anyway, DOES anyone know of good cog-psych tests for math?
Also, @ThomasH comp-sci and cog-psych were made for each other
They had parallel development in the 70's with a lot of cross-pollination
@Indolering I personally don't, but I starred your message, maybe some of our other users do. If they respond to you, you'll get notified, even if it's days or weeks later
You could also start a chat room for recommendations, where the only thing people post are links. This way you get something similar to a forum post. No right answer, just a list of links.
@Indolering Cross-pollination is only slightly less sleazy sounding than cross-fertilisation :)
10:30 PM
@ThomasH Ahh, a true comp-sci veteran mikeholmesdraws.com/post/31818167303/…
So, take this question
A: Is StackExchange.com Addiction Dangerous?

IndoleringFor something to be considered a mental disorder worthy of it's own definition, it needs to have some really strong effects that are consistently different from others definitions and are not explained by co-morbidity of others. ADHD, OCD, and Tourettes all exhibit co-morbidity and common brain...

I think that the question is totally inappropriate
@Indolering You can tell a technology is maturing when porn is taking it up :)
@ThomasH Exactly.
Since Cog-psych involves a lot of construct validity, maybe we could have a question closer for that.
Are there types of question closing tags?
@Indolering I saw a flag for that question. I didn't close it, because the question has some value, and I think it can be on topic. I might try my hand at editing it to improve it
It's a borderline question, it already had my down vote
@Indolering Agree, this is, unfortunately, the kind of question most visitors to the site see all the time, along with "I sometimes have the same thought as my dog at the exactly same time, what's the scientific explanation for that?"
@Indolering What do you mean by "types of question closing tags"?
10:36 PM
@ThomasH It's a chicken/egg problem though. How do you get experts when a site doesn't already have those expert questions, so experts look around and think "ahah, this is a site for experts in X!"
@BenBrocka This is a constant frustration for me
@BenBrocka Indeed, I'm pro tem moderator at the Robotics Beta and we have similar problems.
Especially as discouraging amateur questions could potentially turn away a lot of people, experts included
@ThomasH favorite silly newbie question?
@Indolering We get a lot of shopping questions a la "What's the best sensor/motor/doohickey for my robot"
@JoshGitlin Might? Hehe, well, they are welcome to try, but I think it will sully the good SE name when it becomes Brainzforumz.com. If they start doling out medical advice, it may be time for me to turn in the old moderator hat
10:51 PM
@jonsca I was surprised that medical advice was OK with the team
@JoshGitlin Without being insulting, they don't have anyone remotely versed in science or medicine
Anna proved that by the responses to that science sites question on MSO
(don't have link handy)
@jonsca I agree, and Anna said as much to me, she has no experience in Psychology
Yeah, I shouldn't call her out but I will anyway
They do have experience in building Q&A Communities though ;-) And they have the final say on our status, and if they tell me that as a mod I should be focused on things other than the name, then, I'm going to focus on things other than the name.
But like I said, don't let that stop you from speaking out!
This community belongs to all of us, we should all have a part in shaping it to be what we want
@JoshGitlin I missed the start of that discussion, what is the problem with the current name?
10:57 PM
Q: Whither a more inclusive site name?

Chuck SherringtonDuring discussions about a possible merger with the Neuroinformatics proposal see this Meta.cogsci question, on the related discuss.area51 post a comment was made about whether the name of the site is inclusive enough. (More on evidence of name confusion) While I have always "gotten" that Cognit...

@JoshGitlin Yeah, I'm more concerned about the Mind bit than our name.
@jonsca What specifically is your concern?
Legally they may be in the clear, but you never know what may happen, and ethically it's certainly not sound
I agree about the ethics. If they start gaining traction (I.E. get to the next phase) you might want to email team@
If someone asks "How can I stop my friend from killing him or herself?" or even "How do I get them out of depression?" and it backfires
I know there will be people smart enough to respond "GET THEM HELP", but some jackass will say "take 16 gallons of Ginko Biloba extract" and somehow that will be easier and make more sense to the person asking the question
11:03 PM
I hear you
And worse if the person is allergic to Ginko Biloba or has a genetic predisposition to X, Y, or Z
I was chatting with Anna, you can ping her in the TL and discuss your concerns with her directly if you like @jonsca
@jonsca I'm not sure, I think parenting.SE gets a lot of self-help and somewhat medical questions and it seems to be a fairly decent site (judging from semi-official comments about it, I've never actually been to the site)
Well, just like you guys though that I was full of shit when I got pissed off about drug recommendation questions on our site a long long time ago, I think they probably view me the same way.
@ThomasH This was exactly the example given to me by the team
11:05 PM
@JoshGitlin I see about the name now. To me (an amateur) CogSci has always been fairly umbrella, too. I still wouldn't be able to give a definition of it. Brain and Behaviour, while catchy, would, in my opinion, deter a lot of the more academic clientele, I would wager
@ThomasH Yes, I was warned that we should not choose a site name which is too basic
@JoshGitlin I do agree though that there's an awful number of depression-related question on the mind proposal already, and they got a far bigger potential to backfire than "Help, my toddler won't eat anything but carrots, should I go see a doctor?"
Mental illness and "my pediatrician told me my child can't digest peas" are two different realms though
@jonsca Hehe, great minds think alike ;-)
@jonsca I share your ethical concerns. I wasn't ready to make a fight over Mind today (I was more concerned with Cog Sci's current status), but if it continues to gain traction, let's talk. I'll bring up my concerns again.
11:07 PM
I didn't even notice until a second ago
Well, I'm concerned about the old Coggy Sci, too, but I feel like we're making progress
I've killed off my Alex Stone sock puppet, so our answered questions rate can start increasing now
No one is doing worse than SmugMug!!
Until they shut that down, we should be safe

Beta Q&A site for smugMug developers and end users.

Currently in public beta.

@jonsca lmao
@jonsca Good point
19 users with 200 rep after 428 days
I would love thoughts on how to increase our percentage of answered questions though @jonsca
Besides removing Alex Stone ;-)
I've got to roll up my sleeves and handle a few. I have pulled articles for a couple in the past few months, but I haven't had much of a chance to read them enough to do an answer justice
@jonsca I can't share specifics as you know, but, we actually are down a bit recently. We were doing better, then we started slumping
11:19 PM
Well, clone Jeromy is the obvious second wiseass answer
But having some sort of contest would be fun and educational
We need a few more jonscas!
@jonsca Two baldies? That's too much!
I have yet to reproduce, and the incubation period would be too long
They'll have to settle for the Jeromy Anglim hat
Some sort of a "find a good answer to this question using only open access journals" or something
@jonsca You could give one of your two diamonds to @TimStone, they're clearly taking too much of your time away from good ol "Coggy" :-)
11:21 PM
or at least freely available
Clearly. I spent at least 2 hours the other night coming up with funny acronyms with Ashley, so yeah, it's a time sink
The ol' Coggy. I was going for that "I'm a 70 year old British man looking back on my university years" effect
@TimStone Should be an honorary mod anyway
He keeps the chatroom warm
I know right?
@jonsca I've been saying this for years
I didn't even know there was a "Libraries" SE...
Yeah, it's rough. Lots of angry librarians crying out for a forum instead of a Q+A site.
In place of the "self-help" we have the "what does your library do" question
Wow it's old too, 310 days
And the shopping recommendation thing haunts us
While a handful are probably semi-okay, making that distinction opens up the door for the "buttt miiiinnneeeee isss nott a shopppping reeeeec"
LOL, yeah. Chem.SE looks like it's doing okay though!
11:27 PM
So we have to pull the adult version of the third grade "no, you may not subtract 4 from 3, it just doesn't exist"
Chem is doing very well, and there are some strong users getting ready to take the reigns if it graduates
and people are starting to flag and police it on their own
@jonsca Do I read that as you're not going to run for mod?
I probably will, but we'll see
I bring a good "general purpose" science perspective
and I'm not that bad at chem, though I don't answer a lot of questions
And you're very well versed in Stack Exchange
11:30 PM
but a know a "y u no make Co2 in wtar" when I see one
I'd vote for you except I loathe Chemistry and thus have no rep there
Well, nothing like a voting ring to start off one's permanent modship! ;)
Very good insight acsnoj, I mean hsoj gitman
You too, Josiah Gittles
@jonsca This is my major concern about Cog Sci closing: I love my diamond and don't want it taken away! ;-)
Thusly, my #2 concern is that we graduate and you all don't vote me in :-p
We'll revive an old 1.0 site for ourselves cogostars.com
@JoshGitlin We'll be taking you down like Christmas decorations in March
11:35 PM
I predict we finally get an answer from a neuroscience celebrity and we'll take off like a rocket
In all seriousness that would be awesome
Even if you do vote me out! XD
(Maybe my mom would join then, lol)
I totally want your mom to join anyway
even if just for the chat
"Joshua, mind those flags"
"Yes, mother"
"Are you wasting time in your office again, Joshua??!"
"No, mother, I wouldn't dare"
It'll be the Bates Motel of chatrooms
I'd be in real trouble if my mom joined the chat! "Josh, you always tell me you can't call me because you're so busy working, but you're always in this chat thingadongdong!"
Also I think I would die of laughter if my mother said "thingadongdong" (CC @TimStone)
11:39 PM
I would mail you a crisp $20 if you recorded your mother saying "thingadongdong"
"Joshua, are you talking to your friends on the cellular modulator again??"
"I've heard that AOL is nothing but trouble with all of its bulletin boards"
"Are you on that alt.anarchy I keep hearing about at school?"
"Next thing you know, you'll be dropping Mentos in Coke, you little delinquent"
Ok, now that I've had a good laugh I am hungry! Time for dinner
Also I am dissapont that we couldn't wake Tim up by saying his favorite word
I'm about to craft an off color comment, but people might mistake it for something hateful, so I won't
(as I don't mean it that way)
OK, I'm off. Catch you guys later!
11:47 PM

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