Grand Rounds

4:16 AM

@anongoodnurse Hey :) I've nominated you for moderator pro tempore. I hope that you'll think about it

4

A: Who should our Moderators Pro Tempore be?

anongoodnurse Meta Anongoodnurse (aka medica) has been extremely helpful in advancing this site. In my encounters with her, she has been very friendly and polite and she has also helped me improve the quality of my questions and answers. She is also a Parenting.SE moderator, so she is fami...

anongoodnurse

5:12 AM

@michaelpri - Thank you. That's really kind of you. I haven't been here long, so your trust in me is doubly appreciated. :-) I will think about it. I like SE and like to participate in its communities, so even if I don't run, I will still be involved. But, again, thank you.

michaelpri

@anongoodnurse I really hope that you will accept

anongoodnurse

@michaelpri :-)

I will really think about it.

michaelpri

This site really needs people like you

anongoodnurse

And you.

You're a great contributor to this site.

michaelpri

Thanks :)

anongoodnurse

5:15 AM

I think you would make a fine mod.

michaelpri

But you seem to really understand Health more than me

anongoodnurse

Seriously. You're everywhere.

Well, I'm a doctor, so there's that.

But you're a community-oriented user, which is invaluable.

michaelpri

Yeah, I'm only a student, but maybe I will be a doctor someday

anongoodnurse

What country?

michaelpri

United States

anongoodnurse

5:17 AM

Really? What zone?

michaelpri

ETC, near Philadelphia

anongoodnurse

Wow! We're neighbors!

I'm in PA too.

We're night people, I think.

michaelpri

Haha, we really are :)

anongoodnurse

Shiftwork messes with my circadian rhythm, so I'm up all hours.

Life hacks, that's a fun site.

You have moderating experience. Valuable.

michaelpri

Not much, only about a month, but it has been useful to me so far

anongoodnurse

5:20 AM

I think Susan would be a very good choice for mod, as well.

michaelpri

I do think that moderating Health would be a lot different than moderating Lifehacks, though

anongoodnurse

Yeah. Might be really hard, I don't know.

michaelpri

Yeah, Susan's contributed a lot

anongoodnurse

I've never been (yes, she really has!) in on the ground floor of a site like this.

I think it's a tumultuous time, potentially, when people have strong opinions of what a site should be.

michaelpri

I think this site has has a lot less disagreement than many other sites

anongoodnurse

5:23 AM

There's pulling in several directions. It can be hard on users.

Hmm.

Parenting is the most gentle site I'm involved in.

It's really a pleasure.

Some sites are harder. Some easy. They all seem to have a personality all their own.

michaelpri

SO is probably a bit harder to be a mod on than Parenting or Lifehacks

anongoodnurse

I've heard stories! :-)

michaelpri

From what I can tell, they have to deal with a wide range of crazy things

anongoodnurse

EL&U, too, I'd bet. Busy site, really hard to try to "enforce" (well, impossible, actually) "standards".

New users come in so fast, it's impossible to... define ourselves well.

I don't know that there's any way around it. I think most sites face similar struggles.

michaelpri

Wow, you're very active there, surprised you're not a mod

anongoodnurse

5:29 AM

We'll see that here as well.

EL&U?

michaelpri

Yeah

anongoodnurse

No, there are a lot of high rep users there. And a lot of people who have been on the site for 3-4 years!

I ran once, though.

michaelpri

Did you come close?

anongoodnurse

But I was up against people who had been there for years.

No, not even!

Let's see...I came in 6th, I think.

michaelpri

That's not that bad

anongoodnurse

5:31 AM

For three positions.

Nine candidates.

michaelpri

Hey, you beat out 3 people :)

anongoodnurse

It was a really interesting experience.

lol, yeah, someone has to be 6th.

better than 9th!

Actually, the person who was eighth is really a wonderful person.

Would have made a great mod.

michaelpri

Well, not everyone can win

anongoodnurse

:-)

The right people won. They are an excellent, hard-working team.

How about you? Are you goin to run for mod here?

(Did I miss your accepting the nomination?)

michaelpri

I haven't accepted yet, but I probably will soon. LH isn't that busy, so modding two sites wouldn't be a hassle at all

anongoodnurse

5:35 AM

Yep. Same with Parenting.

Ultimately, it won't be decided by votes, but by Robert, no? Or am I wrong?

michaelpri

Votes matter a little, like if someone has 15 more votes than the next person then that makes a difference, but if it's close by 1 or 2 votes, then the SE team looks at how good of a user you've been on beta and meta

anongoodnurse

Susan has mod experience too. There are a lot of good candidates.

I'm too new here, I think.

michaelpri

The Health mod team could be all people who have been mods before ;)

anongoodnurse

:D

michaelpri

There are other good candidates though, too

anongoodnurse

5:39 AM

Have you ever noticed how much the top mods around?

michaelpri

Like the CM's?

anongoodnurse

There are people who have been mods on 6-7 sites

No, regular mods.

Some start on slower sites and move to more active ones.

michaelpri

Oh wow, I haven't seen anyone with more than 5 I think

anongoodnurse

At least, I've seen that.

Let me check brb

Yep. Rory Alsop: "I only actually have 68 helpful flags on this site, but I have been an SE mod for nearly 4 years now - across the Stack Exchange network I currently moderate 6 sites (5 as a pro-tem, and one as pro-tem from beta to graduation and then voted in as a mod) and am very active on quite a few sites, both in reviewing and editing and in questions and answers (current network-wide rep of >150k)"

So, I think it's seven for him now.

michaelpri

Oh my goodness that's a lot of sites

anongoodnurse

5:44 AM

Makes me look like an infant. :-)

Very good mod! Knows all the ins and outs.

michaelpri

I might nominate him here even though he might not even have an account :)

anongoodnurse

Very even handed, and yet decisive when needed.

LOL!!!

That would be hilarious!

He'd be a good mod, I'm sure of it.

:-)

michaelpri

Many people would probably be very confused :P

anongoodnurse

:D (I still think it would be absolutely hilarious! Imagine his surprise!)

I'm laughing just thinking about it!

michaelpri

Imagine a mod with 101 rep

anongoodnurse

5:48 AM

@Rory: you've been elected to moderate Health.SE.

lol! 101! hahaha

Ah, that is too funny.

michaelpri

He'd probably manage to get that number up pretty quickly though

anongoodnurse

I'm sure he would!

michaelpri

I'm surprised SE hasn't hired him yet

anongoodnurse

Yeah, I'd be surprised, too, if he didn't get offered a position.

michaelpri

SE has hired a lot of people recently, usually people who were mods before

anongoodnurse

5:51 AM

Yep. They have.
You are our top user here. :-)

michaelpri

It's only because I have 30 something answers

anongoodnurse

That's a good reason, I think! Proves your interest and dedication.

Asking questions is so much harder than answering them.

michaelpri

Asking high-quality questions is hard.

anongoodnurse

You ask questions, too.

michaelpri

Only a few

anongoodnurse

5:53 AM

Yes. I was trying to think of good questions earlier.

Oh, I think I'm going to answer that zinc question.

michaelpri

Your question about the zinc lozenges?

anongoodnurse

I'm taking zinc right now (blushing)

Yes. I think they're great!

The studies are interesting, too.

michaelpri

I remember being up until 2:00 a.m. researching about that. It was very interesting

anongoodnurse

I think it's a strange element, zinc. Toxic in larger doses...

@michaelpri I'm glad you thought so! I upvoted your answer, but I realized I didn't really ask it well.

If I edit the question, do you want to take a stab at it again?

michaelpri

Sure

anongoodnurse

5:56 AM

For instance, the studies favor zinc gluconate.

OK, that's great!

I don't want to make more work for you, but I think it's really interesting.

michaelpri

No, I've been waiting for something to do :)

anongoodnurse

The US is somewhat lagging on "alternative" medicines, even those with good track records in Europe.

I'm not well versed in alternative medicine, but I tey to keep up on things that might actually work.

In the US, that's few and far between.

OK, I'll rewrite, and thank you!

I hope it's worth your while.

Nasal zinc, which was initially pretty effective, turned out to be too toxic for your nose. :-O

Scary.

It is nice chatting with you.

michaelpri

You too :)

anongoodnurse

I should try to get some sleep. :-)

Kinda have a full day tomorrow.

CU soon.

:-)

michaelpri

Goodbye

Cya :)

anongoodnurse

6:02 AM

(oops, today)

Goodnight!

michaelpri

1:19 PM

Anyone on?

Tim

kinda :)

michaelpri

@Tim Hey :)

Tim

1:32 PM

Hi :)

my sister's God mother is round so I'm on and off

michaelpri

Oh ok

Tim

you doing much today?

JohnP

2:07 PM

argh.

Feeds, M.D.

0

Q: Question that should not be closed is being closed

At the time of writing, my question here is on the verge of being closed: Sudden neck pain when leaning back This is exactly the kind of thing I was worried about when I wrote this meta post: Should we try to reword "personalized" questions instead of closing? This question is, IMHO, not off-to...

discussion

Feeds, M.D.

3:28 PM

0

Q: Are asking for users experience off-topic here?

Is it here allow to ask users about her own experience about something like medications, illnesses, operations, therapies etc? Example questions could be: Have you ever made a mandibular osteotomy operation and how what it? Pain after the opeation? Something who got wrong with that etc. What i...

discussion allowed-questions

Feeds, M.D.

4:18 PM

0

Q: How can we help the community to develop a more discerning approach to ideas presented here?

This was prompted by Mad Scientist’s recently updated Meta post, a Meta answer by Anongoodnurse that has received disturbingly little attention, and my own recent response to a question on Main that ended up revealing as much about my interests in site-wide education on critical data analysis as ...

discussion

Tim

5:51 PM

@JohnP ???

michaelpri

6:35 PM

Hello everyone :)

Tim

hi :)

What do you think of this:

Desk Fan Speed Design

►

michaelpri

@Tim Looks pretty good

Tim

:) Is it too long?

I'm going to do a desk accessories series.

michaelpri

Not really

Jez

hi guys, how's it going?

michaelpri

6:47 PM

@Jez Hey

Jez

@Tim talking of furniture, how about you (and anyone else here) follow my Furniture proposal? area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/86175/…

michaelpri

@Jez I'm not really interested in furniture, but I'll check it out

Jez

cool

follow it please

michaelpri

I followed it

Jez

yay thanks

michaelpri

6:57 PM

I'm not sure if it'll make it though

Jez

shrug

you could say that about any proposal

michaelpri

Yeah, but it might not be a broad enough topic

Jez

@michaelpri do you know anyone else who is interested in furniture? i wouldn't be surprised if it were more female-centric, actually.

@michaelpri possibly, although i think it would be surprisingly broad. there's quite a lot of info about the design/cost/etc of different pieces of furniture, and how to lay it out

it is, after all, stuff that people use every day

michaelpri

I wouldn't really know that well, I don't usually think about that kind of stuff

Jez

well that's the point

not enough people do

we just had an office redesign where i work, and the new chairs suck

they hurt my back.

Joe W

7:04 PM

well was that more of a cost based issue or poor choices?

Jez

hmm

not sure. I'd say poor choice, because i heard they cost a fortune

and my boss chose them, not me

Joe W

i know a lot of choices get made on cost

got lucky where I am and have good chairs

ones that I would actually use at home

Jez

that is lucky.

the main gripe i have with the ones they just bought at work is the back.

it is one of those backs that reclines - not a problem except for one thing - you can't lock it in position

normally, when i have a chair whose back reclines and doesn't lock in position, I think it's broken. but these ones are by design. ffs.

I want to lean back to a certain degree, then lock the back there. can't do it.

it's a terrible design

Joe W

ah

i like mine in the free mode position

Jez

sigh

just why?

you lean back and thing gives

Joe W

7:14 PM

on another topic wonder how long people will have to accept/decline the moderator nominations

Jez

dunno, but i won't agree with medica being in there

pfft.

Tim

it would be nice if you gave us a link @Jez and if she gets it by vote then she gets it.

you just made a claim with no evidence at all.

michaelpri

@JoeW Depends

@Jez I saw what you linked to, but personally I think she'd make a great mod

Jez

@Tim go check. i did link.

@michaelpri she get in temper tantrums over stupid little things.

good mods don't do that.

Tim

Umm different site for a start...

Joe W

7:18 PM

I don't see an issue with any of them atm

and if there is an issue there are ways of dealing with it

Jez

@Tim what does that matter?

@JoeW yeah like not choosing them for mod

Joe W

@Jez I mean if there are issues with a mod there are ways of dealing with it

and people can change behaviors when they become a mod

act one way when not a mod and change when a mod

being a mod doesn't mean you can't have disagreements with others

Jez

well she told me not to ask her anything again. so i think she would be biased against me from the start.

so much for a good mod.

Joe W

just means how you handle them where you are a mod has the be fair

Tim

I don't think that chat transcript backs up this claim that well:

She has shown a volatile and at times hostile attitude to me. I would recommend against her being a moderator. — Jez 20 hours ago

Joe W

7:21 PM

whats wrong with that?

you can't be a mod if you don't want to help everyone?

Tim

I wouldn't call that hostile, and it was one time.

michaelpri

Maybe she was having a bad day

Tim

you seem to have over reacted. she is entitled to be annoyed if you question what she does for a living, especially after 7 years of training.

Another good explanation ^^^

Joe W

and she does have mod experience

but that might also mean she doesn't have the time to add another site for mod duties

Jez

@Tim it was clearly a joke

Joe W

7:23 PM

so have to see if she accepts before it matters

Tim

That doesn't mean it is funny.

michaelpri

@JoeW I was talking with her last night and she said Parenting.SE isn't very busy

Joe W

yep

Jez

"mod experience", great

Joe W

figure it wont be an issue but I didn't have any knowledge about how busy that site is and she is

Jez

7:24 PM

but do we want people having lots of power over many sites?

if anything, i'd want to avoid giving people overarching power

might go to their head

michaelpri

I think two or three sites is fine, there is even someone who is a mod on 7 sites

Jez

and that's a good thing? that's merely a fact

michaelpri

Good mods won't let power go to their head and if they do, you can kick them out

Jez

it's pretty hard to kick them out

Tim

weeel, no it's not that hard

michaelpri

7:26 PM

If they do something really bad it's not

Joe W

mods can be removed if they are not doing what they should be

Tim

72

A: Handling Calls to Remove a Moderator

Moderator Action Review Process After much discussion, debate, reflection, consultation, frustration, revelation, constipation and inspiration, we've settled on the following process for allowing a team of moderators to remove one of their own. It is, by necessity, somewhat formal: this process...

Jez

2/3ds of mods have to agree to remove the mod

and as mods get to be all buddy-buddy that's less likely to happen

that actually seems like a really bad idea

it should be down to a community vote, not a mod vote

or maybe a community OR mod vote

if either doesn't have confidence in the mod, the mod goes

Tim

they voted them in

not how democracy works.

michaelpri

If she's hostile and volatile as you said, then the mods wouldn't get buddy-buddy with her

Jez

7:36 PM

@Tim ever heard of recall elections?

@michaelpri oh, she'd be selective in who she was hostile to, i'm sure

Tim

Nope, I'm from the UK, "There is no recall procedure in the UK, although following the MPs’ expenses scandal the main political parties proposed introducing different forms of recall."

Jez

quite.

Tim

@Jez well if she is selective then those that dislike her can flag the behaviour. To those she isn't, no problem.

michaelpri

If you really don't want her to be a mod, but other people do, then she will become a mod

Jez

it may be about to happen. people elect someone (although not ALL people), and then they may discover that person isn't who they thought they were

Tim

7:37 PM

Just down vote her nomination

michaelpri

Has she ever been hostile to you besides that one time?

Tim

fine, she gets elected, the other 2 realise she is bad and kick her out?

Joe W

Mod's don't become buddy buddy because they are mods

and most will want to get rid of a bad mod

Jez

@Tim you don't think a mod would ever brown-nose the people they need to?

that's kind of how most people work

Joe W

one thing you need to remember is that it is hard for a non mod or non se employee to see everything that a mod is doing

Tim

7:39 PM

Ask @michaelpri says, currently your argument is "once she got offended at me when I made a non funny joke".

Jez

@JoeW well maybe it should be

Tim

I wouldn't call her response hostile

Joe W

And you don't think they wont listen to the community if complaints about a mod are raised?

Jez

@Tim ahem, non-funny is subjective

Tim

@Jez then make a feature request.

Joe W

7:40 PM

nope there is a lot of private infromation that mods deal with that not everyone needs to know

Jez

most people in the chatroom found it hilarious

@JoeW who cares whether they "need" to know it?

Tim

yes it is. and you made a bad judgement, and she found it offensive and she is entitled to. I wouldn't have done.

Joe W

stackechange cares

Jez

this site should be as open as possible. it doesn't even allow private messages

Joe W

and the mods have to sign agreements with what they are allowed to share

Jez

7:41 PM

they seem to care about avoiding secrecy

another thing i don't like about medica is that she seems to be in the camp of "aggressively closing questions" if they're "too personalized"

it's gonna get like StackOverflow where no-one can ask anything

Joe W

pretty sure there have been posts on meta stackexchange on why they don't show all of what a mod does

Jez

she was even talking about not joining this site because it might be too permissive of questions

Tim

lol don't bring that up

Jez

erm, why?

Joe W

strange I see lots of new questions getting upvoted there all the time

Tim

7:43 PM

-3

Q: Question that should not be closed is being closed

At the time of writing, my question here is on the verge of being closed: Sudden neck pain when leaning back This is exactly the kind of thing I was worried about when I wrote this meta post: Should we try to reword "personalized" questions instead of closing? This question is, IMHO, not off-to...

discussion

Jez

@JoeW I see lots of questions getting closed there, and comments saying "this shouldn't have been closed. it was useful, and so were the answers"

Tim

You mean the funny ones? examples?

Joe W

useful does not mean it is a fit for the site

Mad Scientist

I don't really see any benefit to continuing this discussion. The SE employees choosing mods look into the history of the users, they will be aware of any such issues. You commented on the nomination, that is sufficient. And we don't even know if we get any mods, the site is still not out of private beta

Joe W

:)

Jez

7:45 PM

@JoeW fit for the site, sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

what is "fit for the site" has been being reduced all the time, and for little-to-no reason

the fact is, Stack Overflow would never have been that popular if they originally took the same question closing policy as they do today.

people wanted to go and ask a very broad spectrum of questions, and they could

they got a bunch of questions, then they cracked down. i think it sucks.

Joe W

then take it up on the meta site

Jez

no, i can't be bothered. it's one big groupthink there.

waste of time.

michaelpri

@Jez If you want to really change the site, run for mod

Joe W

then stop complaining about it

Jez

i'm not complaining about it. i'm talking about this site's policy.

Joe W

7:47 PM

this site is different

Jez

and how it should frankly be different and more inclusive.

yes, i know.

Joe W

if you got problems about a question that got closed then bring it up

otherwise don't worry about it

Jez

so people like TIm can tell me to shut up?

hum.

Joe W

you seem to be complaining about something that hasn't happened yet

Tim

I didn't say shut up

my mother says that is rude

i said that based on your recent meta posts, you may not enjoy participating in this site - there may be a better one for you. This site may be a bad fit because you want it to be something it isn't

Jez

7:51 PM

i find your attitude hostile

Tim

Hmm, you find a lot of things hostile

"showing or feeling opposition or dislike; unfriendly."

Mad Scientist

To whoever flagged this, please only use those flags for truly offensive posts

Tim

yeeh, maybe

Jez

i have already participated in this site plenty

one question comes up and you suggest i "might not enjoy participating"

how ridiculous

Tim

@Jez and continue to participate, but please ensure you keep to the voted rules.

Jez

7:53 PM

the voted rules a) do not necessarily make my question off-topic and b) are not settled on yet

Tim

21

A: OMG... A site about Health?

Regarding personal advice, some other sites have close reasons for this. Judaism.SE has a close reason for "ask your rabbi". Christianity.SE has a close reason for "ask your pastor". I think that when Health moves out of private beta we could also have a close reason for "ask your doctor".

Currently, we are closing based on them

Jez

i already read that

yes, there is a rule about "ask your doctor"

Tim

I'm just posting it so people know what I'm referring to.

Jez

so what?

it just means that some questions are not appropriate for the site

Hakase

guys if you feel like using SE sites upsets you and you have better things to do, I know it's gonna sound obvious, but you would probably enjoy doing other things better

peace!

Jez

7:54 PM

well i could've told you that before it started

Tim

so what? I deemed that question to be too personalised and beyond editing to make it broader, and it fits under that umbrella.

Jez

neck pain is a very general thing and a very common thing

Tim

And 4 other agree on that

Jez

it is not a particularly personalized question.

yes, once there is one close vote, i have noticed a tendency for people to dogpile

Tim

Well then again, bring it up on meta.se that the system needs to change

"I was leaning back in my chair and I got sudden neck pain. It's a sharp pain" sounds to me like it is about you that makes it very personalised.

Jez

7:56 PM

in this case it was about me, but it can and does happen regularly

there's no reason general advice cannot be given out about this phenomenon

Tim

Well the community has said there is a reason.

Joe W

How can we know what is the root cause? All that was posted is when leaning back a sharp sudden pain happens

there is more then one cause to that issue and no idea of knowing how serious it can be

Jez

you can't know what the root cause is, but that post TIm linked to actually has Robert saying that we shouldn't worry too much about that

> We are not your doctor and we do not dispense PERSONALIZED medical advice here. But I've been watching this self-inflicted moratorium on legal and medical advice permeating this network for years, and it's just not prudent to freak out over someone asking how to remove a splinter… followed by all the grave concerns that such "medical advice" could cause infection or cause the loss of the entire arm... or worse.
>
> That's just nonsense.

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