@Kuba Ah, sorry, have been away. Did you find what you're looking for?

What's happened to the Live CEOing twitch streams? Have they been stopped? I'd be very sad to see them die, I found them a really great resource

Maybe a summer break?

@CarlLange Wolfram does a summer program thing for a few weeks around this time I think (Vitaliy mentioned it a bit ago). Maybe there's just a bit of a time lag between that ending and them picking up again?

Ah, that's a good theory! I can't watch them right now anyway (I am now on trail 42/42, kilometre 3850 or so) but I noticed the lack of alerts!

Looking forward to finishing the final trail so I can get back here and cement my top ten yearly position

Man....Eclipse/Workbench is either really broken or super difficult to set up properly, this sucks.

I'm ready to uninstall the whole thing and neeeeever touch it again, can anyone recommend a real source to set this contraption up to where one can actually use it? After having installed way too much to set it up, I am left with making java files? None of the guides that exist show how to set up the environment beyond just installing the plugins that are already installed. It is far easier to just edit within Mathematica, why even use Eclipse or make Workbench reliant upon it?

@CATrevillian wlplugin.halirutan.de

@halirutan thank you!

Of course I recommend halirutan's plugin - but @CATrevillian what are you trying to do in Eclipse? I generally find it easy to use for WL projects

@halirutan oh this does make me smile, wow...I'm excited to (try to) use this!

@CATrevillian If you tell exactly what you try to do, I can give you some hints.

@JasonB. just use it at all, it seems overly confusing, I just wanted to try to edit my homemade .wl/.m packages, and I can't really even access a Workbench environment/workspace at all

@CATrevillian If you don't plan to make something bigger, you can just stick to Mathematica.

^and if you can handle how the FE does indentation

I was hoping to use something that made things easier to do what I already hackishly do in Mathematica, like making documentation pages. I previously used the MakeApplication package from a few years ago, and just self updated it to where it was stable for my uses, then I'd copy the raw WL from documentation pages I liked, and this is easier for me than trying to launch a workbench workspace

@CATrevillian For building documentation, you will need the Workbench. I'm not sure if it is still so hard to get something working, but with IntelliJ you cannot build doc at all.

@CATrevillian Literally the only thing I use Workbench for is the "Documentation: Build" button. I manage the rest of package development / documentation in Mathematica itself (with the help of the DocTools that comes with Workbench but isn't the Eclipse part)

For reference, I want to be able to 1. see line numbers, and 2. make documentation pages for my packages. I currently have two that I am working on that are representative of my two research projects, and eclipse gives me a headache every time I try to do something as simple as creating a file. I am able to get documentation to exist (on my side) using the hop-skip-and-a-jump methods I figured out using the ApplicationMaker package from some years ago

That type of automation is nice, and stable, and is very much preferred for my uses @ChrisK--If DocTools works in Mathematica proper, I will have to investigate this. Using the wolfram language usually puts me in a good mood, but I couldn't even do that in Eclipse D;

So I like using eclipse for an IDE - I edit code it in almost exclusively. But if I wanted to write documentation I would probably use this b3m2a1.github.io/…

I mean the "DocumentationTools" palette that Workbench installs in Mathematica

That part is pretty OK

Ah okay, this all makes sense then. I'll investigate all of these resources--I previously just hand made the ref pages using trial and error combos of Crtl+Shift+e, which was a task, but inevitably began to not be too much of a chore, this all seems like it will be much easier using a combo of these resources. I'm still holding out hope for the ability to print line numbers in Mathematica proper, but I do know that this is not a current FE option that exists. Just small bits of comfort!

Thank you to all of you, I still fail to even find the options referenced in Eclipse such as Documentation:Build, though, let alone where the Workbench workspace was setup, but that my be my own ineptitude when it comes to Eclipse

@JasonB. I wrote batch tabbing code to do this and overloaded the default package stylesheet to use it :)

@JasonB. I think simpler these days is this since I saw that being constantly up-to-date with WRI docs was going to be a nightmare

@CATrevillian Note that the "DocumentationTools" palette only shows up when Mathematica is called from Eclipse - otherwise it's AWOL

I just made a simple stylesheet and interface so that I could always have it version independent and look the same

it took me a bunch of futzing around with it to make it work too, which is why I don't think I could explain to you how to do it

@ChrisK You can actually extract it out of Eclipse if you look in the file layout

Or inside the Eclipse started Mathematica just do something like PacletFind["DocuTools"] and pull the "Location".

@b3m2a1 that PacletFind just give me {}

Oh maybe they call it "DocumentationTools"...

Try PacletFind["D*Tool*"]

This is all awesome, thank you @b3m2a1 @ChrisK @halirutan @JasonB. all so much, these put me in an immensely better position to truly make and integrate these packages into the WL/Mathematica functionality--Eclipse was making me feel so defeated! These & you all, quite the opposite :D

I remember pulling it out of the layout but can't remember how

@CATrevillian as someone who has spent a while working on all of this, it might be worth not going too overboard with the integrated-ness of your package just yet, since at least per John Fultz WRI is working on tools to make this better.

Definitely make it adhere to the paclet format

Definitely write it well

But just keep in mind that life might be significantly improved in the not-so-distant future

only got DTWTools and DemonstrationsTools

@ChrisK odd... here's another thing to try to find the location:

docuNB = Notebooks["Documentation Tools"][[1]]; NotebookFileName[docuNB]

That will be in the Palettes subdirectory of the paclet

And you can copy out the paclet into your regular $UserBaseDirectory paclets folder by repacking it and calling PacletInstall.

@b3m2a1 thank you for that advice, I've been taught KIS(s) but I can't help making things look pretty and seemless (as best I can)--Can you reference what the proper paclet format might be? I've got two "suites" which have a few different reliant functions, some with internal options (implemented using switch), and I hope to widely distribute & update them both for some time

@b3m2a1 Part::partw: Part 1 of {} does not exist. / NotebookFileName[{}[[1]]] is all I get

@CATrevillian mresources.github.io/tutorial/package-usage-and-development/…

anyhow, I'm OK with firing it up from Eclipse on the rare day I'm writing docs

@b3m2a1 I can't wait -- in both senses of the phrase

@b3m2a1 sweet!! I'm bathing in the exact level and kind of resources I've been needing (or forgot about) and this has truly turned my day around, as silly as that sounds :D:D:D:D

@ChrisK I've been working in python almost exclusively for the past many months and except for the fact that I need to re-implement a large swath of Mathematica functionality, life is much nicer.

I still enjoy Mathematica, but writing even medium sized code bases in it just drives you nuts since developers are not well supported.

@b3m2a1 unfortunately I'm past the age when I can learn new languages, so I'm stuck for life :)

anyhow, I still think Mathematica's the best for my work

but package development is rough

@ChrisK I'd rather use Mathematica... I just can't justify making my coworkers use it

And I write a lot of code that's used by all of us

luckily I can corrupt my grad students when they're starting out -- postdocs can be harder

@ChrisK and happily grad student brains are still young and pliable. They can learn python when they need to find jobs after graduating.

see yall later

@b3m2a1 I hope to be corruptable at any age. Currently only know WL, trying to learn php and python as I enter my PhD @ChrisK see you later! Thank you to all of you again, especially all of you.

@halirutan is there a way students might be able to access your wlplugin for Jet Brains IntelliJ IDEA? Seemingly it is free of charge, but I am having trouble with it saying no suitable licenses for my account. It looks like it will be awesome to use, though! I must be made of difficulties today haha maybe food will fix it! All the research work I do is publicly funded, if that helps! Thanks again all

@CATrevillian do you have the community edition of IntelliJ?

That's the only thing that needs a license

If not you can also get a free version of the JetBrains IDEs if you are a student (this is particularly important for CLion for which there is not community edition).

@CATrevillian php and mathematica, now there's a combination sure to get you hired 🤮

@CarlLange ;_;

@CarlLange actually it’s for development of assistive/accessibility technologies lol @b3m2a1 I was able to get the free JetBrains account, and installed the Ultimate IDE, but when I go to add the WLplugin, it prompts me for an account to validate the plugin license, and my JBA doesn’t work for that apparently

Hmm... it worked for me when I did it a few years back.

@CarlLange I’m not in this life to get paid lol just make cool science while someone pays for me to (preferably) not die haha —@b3m2a1 I think this is on a new JetBrains marketplace platform, which may be the issue, seemingly the IDE itself is useable? Having been validated with the edu JBA