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12:19 AM
@SjoerdCdeVries Heh. :)
 
acl
12:45 AM
@yoda qualifying... sounds fun
 
 
6 hours later…
7:11 AM
@MrWizard Somebody had to do it!
I wanted to post the confetti two days ago already when we got the Enthusiast badges, but they shipped 2 days early.
 
 
3 hours later…
9:54 AM
0
Q: Tag for questions about constructing functions

Mr.WizardIn light of this question and its pursuant comments: Functions tag -- best usage? Please consider questions of this type: Functions vs. patterns How can I create a function with optional arguments and options? Passing down arguments I believe that these are distinct from the greater body of ...

 
10:37 AM
There are some very logical, but for me unexpected use of patterns and function definitions:
fun: f[x_] := Print[fun]
{a[x_], b[x_]} = {x^2, x^3}
 
@Szabolcs I don't like the second one (with SetDelayed rather than Set). It's not immediately clear (at least to me) on what symbol the pattern is being defined, because of special handling of List.
 
@OleksandrR I found it here (see In[29]). Of course the definition can still be split there, but what if we have something like this?
{a1[x_], a2[x_], a3[x_]} = CoefficientList[(x + a)^2, a]
It seems like a convenient solution when a function will return mutliple results as a list and these need to be assigned to a function
I use the {a,b,c} = {1,2,3} unpacking syntax all the time (in particular when functions return mutliple arguments), but to see it used with DownValue definitions, that was very surprising. I have never used that.
 
Parallel assignment is a very convenient thing...
 
It is, it just somehow never occurred to me that it can be used with DownValue definitions as well
@JM What I'd sometimes like to have is this: {a, b, ___} = valueList. This of course doesn't work but what I mean is: ignore everything above element 2. Or more complex: {a, _, b} = triplet --- get the first and third, ignore the middle one. In these cases I use valueList[[{1,2}]] or valueList[[{1,3}]]. Any better solutions?
 
10:54 AM
@Szabolcs I use that sometimes when solving DEs in matrix form.
 
@Szabolcs IMO, it should be {a1[x_], a2[x_], a3[x_]} := Evaluate@CoefficientList[(x + a)^2, a]. At any rate, it's convenient, but an exception to the general rule. For instance, q[a1[x_], a2[x_], a3[x_]] := Evaluate@CoefficientList[(x + a)^2, a] is an assignment on q, but the first one isn't an assignment on List (thankfully).
 
@OleksandrR In what way is {a1[x_], a2[x_], a3[x_]} := Evaluate@CoefficientList[(x + a)^2, a] different from {a1[x_], a2[x_], a3[x_]} = CoefficientList[(x + a)^2, a]?
 
I too though it was the same
 
@Heike what if x is later given a value?
In fact the definition itself should be wrapped in Block[{x}, ...] just in case x has a value when it's made
 
@Szabolcs Nothing compact comes to mind... (apart from what you've mentioned already) :(
 
11:00 AM
@OleksandrR I was thinking interactive work, i.e. x does not have a value now. If it gets a value later, that should not break anything, should it?
 
That still works in the Set case: Clear[a1, a2, a3, x]
{a1[x_], a2[x_], a3[x_]} = CoefficientList[(x + a)^2, a]; x=4; a1[x] returns 16
The downvalue for a1 in both cases is {HoldPattern[a1[x_]] :> x^2}
 
@Heike oops, sorry, yes, my session got mixed up a bit.
As long as x has no value when the definition is made it should be OK.
But I'd still like to know how it is that the downvalues are indistinguishable between the Set and SetDelayed cases, yet Information still knows the definition was made with Set.
 
11:20 AM
@Szabolcs: if you modified the code in my confetti answer, could you include those modifications as well?
 
OK
 
Sometimes I feel like Linux support in Mathematica was a mere afterthought...
 
@JM I don't have antialiasing on my system either. That's why I use that poor man's antialiaser ...
@JM I edited in the modifications, try it!
 
@Szabolcs Okay, waiting now...
 
@Heike I ran your confetti code an the colours don't match with what you posted. There's some colour management weirdness on Macs, I think.
@JM It ran relatively quickly here. If it's slow on your machine, it must be the GIF export (i.e. actual rendering) that's slow.
 
11:29 AM
@Szabolcs I suppose; my machine is a mere netbook... :)
On that note: I had to dig up my physics textbook for that answer, as I forgot the equations for projectile motion...
 
@Szabolcs I changed the colour function to Hue in my edit, but I didn't update the gif, so the colours might be off.
BTW, I'm trying out your tea.
 
(BTW, there was a missing comma after the "DisplayDurations" option, which I have now added.)
 
:-) so you found it in the Turkish shop?
 
Yes I did.
It's nice. It's milder than the earl grey I'm used to.
 
11:38 AM
:-)
 
@Heike I tried to make a smoother version from yours too, but this GIF is pushing my browser to its limits
 
@Szabolcs Wow!
 
@Szabolcs Yes, the gif is quite large. I guess saving it at a lower resolution should help.
 
Or a lower framerate, 30 fps is really pushing it
 
@Heike: well, that's certainly a lot of Polygon[]s... :)
 
11:43 AM
@JM It's only 3 actually, but with lots of different VertexColors :-)
@Szabolcs I thought Mathematica used 15 fps by default?
 
@Heike I treat Polygon[{{{__}, {__}, {__}}, {{__}, {__}, {__}}}] as two polygons... :)
 
@Heike I don't know ... I assumed it used 10 fps and I tripled it. I'd like to know the default too
 
I've played with the idea of texturing one of the confetti with Waldo's face and see if anyone spots it.
 
Do it! :)
 
@JM I suppose you did check this, but if you didn't, go see it now
 
12:01 PM
I've seen it before. :) Actually, I wrote my own version years ago to see what was going on while I was crunching the numbers, but never got around to publishing it...
 
@JM I'd love to see a newton type fractal for that, but don't have time to make it now ...
 
@Szabolcs That can be arranged, I think. Have you encountered the work of Bahman Kalantari?
 
No, I haven't
 
(I'm pretty sure every single one of those could be done in Mathematica, with judicious use of FixedPoint[] and DensityPlot[]. And possibly Compile[].)
Meanwhile...
 
acl
@Heike no viscosity, no collission integral, no upvote
2
:)
 
12:08 PM
 
acl
@Szabolcs newton's method for 3rd order polynomial?
(or is it not newton's method, the simple iterative thing anyway?)
 
@OleksandrR I know this was at least commented upon on StackOverflow. Does anyone recall where?
 
@acl Not Newton's, but this, and for a non-polynomial function. Now look what I get when I calculate the same thing but I set RuntimeOptions -> "Speed" in compile ...
 
@Szabolcs oh my
 
12:23 PM
I think mathematica.SO is loosing significant impact or maybe I'm used to the many upvotes on mathematica.SE.
 
@Szabolcs Nice eyes. :)
 
@halirutan certainly there is much less traffic there now
 
I posted an answer at SO only a few hours ago, as an addendum to an old question...
 
One problem is that many people from MathGroup still don't know that there's a new site, and when they see an URL with "stack" in it, they think "Oh, it's just SO, I've seen that and it wasn't so great" (Someone actually told me something similar in email)
 
@acl Give me a minute. I'm still working on drag effects and Bernoulli's principle.
 
12:26 PM
That's a shame, but frankly we are doing all we can to leave sign posts to the new place, and if they cannot be bothered to read them I question the quality and persistence of their potential contribution.
 
@acl ugh. In hind sight, it was not too bad and needn't have fretted too much
 
@JM and @all Can someone please check this for me? Do you have any hints what's going wrong when I set RuntimeOptions -> "Speed"? (This was a quick and dirty experiment to plot some fractals using that root finding method) ge.tt/8lrV5lD?c
 
@Szabolcs stackoverflow.com/q/9319056/1078614 here for instance. The trick with sequence is really nice. Here you had gotten at least 10 upvotes. Not to mention, that I got an "Thanks, I like the approach" but no upvote..
I wrote lately a C++ Wolfram Library binding for a Dynamic newton fractal viewer. I think I posted it already anywhere on SO
 
@halirutan I learned that delete-duplicates trick from an old version of the docs. Did you write the core code in C++ for that? You should post it somewhere!
 
@Szabolcs For this one, where you can move the positions of the root and adjust the number of roots, yes.
 
12:33 PM
@Szabolcs Gimme ten minutes; my connection is slow... :D
 
Here is a pure Mathematica implementation: pastebin.com/hXgzsWQr
 
@JM I removed the graphics, now only 16 kB ge.tt/9vPq7lD?c
 
@MrWizard This is exactly the reason why I hate it when people add information in comments... Comments are not versioned, not un-deletable, not searchable, ephemeral and its existence is always at the mercy of the commenter.
 
@JM Admittedly, I spend very little time on this. But it's the first time RuntimeAttributes -> "Speed" changes the result significantly
 
@yoda A valid sentiment but if I am not mistaken it was in an answer, so you are in luck.
 
12:38 PM
A valid sentiment perhaps, but a lone sentiment.
 
I think that good comments often are rolled into the answer; at least that is often what I do (with credit).
 
@yoda: have you already seen my fake jet()? :) (That's a thank you for pointing me to your question.)
 
Also they are searchable via Google, etc. But I see your point.
@halirutan speaking of low vote totals (warning: here comes some blatant rep whoring) I think this answer of mine deserves a higher count if it works robustly, and if it doesn't someone really should have the courtesy to tell me.
 
@JM I did, I even upvoted it :) I've always thought of doing that, since jet has a simple piecewise linear structure... but as you must have realized by now, my "I want to do it" thoughts don't always translate to action :P Thanks for doing it :D
 
@MrWizard The behavior of questions with so many answers is sometimes surprising. It seems people don't go through all answers carefully enough and what is last is the list, stay behind, since it is seen too late.
 
12:46 PM
Also this one of Leonid's.
 
@JM It's caused by RuntimeOptions -> {"CompareWithTolerance" -> False}
 
While I'm waiting for Szabolcs's plots to render, I have a quick question for people who still remember old Mathematica: there was once a nice graphic displaying the colors in Graphics`Colors` in a neat grid. I can't seem to find the code for that now; anybody remember?
 
The LevelScheme package has something for that, I think
 
@yoda Okay, I just wanted to be sure you saw it; it's a bit wasteful to carry sixty-four colors when only seven suffice. :)
@Szabolcs Ah. Tricky, that Compile[]...
 
J.M. was it a palette?
 
12:48 PM
@halirutan this is the reason why "big list" questions are bad... good answers that come a month late can never catch up to the first answer
 
@MrWizard Nah, it was either a Raster[] or a bunch of Rectangle[]s with Text[]. Silly me did not save the code...
 
@JM Where did you post your jet()?
 
@JM you mean the colordata?
 
@Heike Here.
@yoda Well, the Blend[] function Sjoerd used had to carry around all sixty-four colors, no?
 
@JM I saved this from Mitch Murphy, April 18, 2006:
<< Graphics`Colors`
swatch[i_] :=
  Graphics[{ToExpression[AllColors[[i]]], Rectangle[{0, 0}, {1, 1}]},
   AspectRatio -> 1, PlotLabel -> AllColors[[i]]];
Show[GraphicsArray[Table[swatch[6 i + j], {i, 0, 29}, {j, 1, 6}]],
 ImageSize -> 600]
 
12:51 PM
@yoda Oops, sorry, wrong message.
@MrWizard Let me try changing that...
 
@JM Grid[Map[ColorSetter, Partition[Symbol /@ AllColors, 20, 20, {1, 1}, Black], {2}], Background -> Black, Spacings -> {0, 0}]
 
I would like the rest of you to tell me what answers you think have not gotten the votes they deserve.
 
AllColors = First[ColorData["Legacy", "Range"]];
swatch[i_] := Graphics[{ColorData["Legacy", AllColors[[i]]],
    Rectangle[{0, 0}, {1, 1}]}, AspectRatio -> 1, PlotLabel -> AllColors[[i]]];
GraphicsGrid[Table[swatch[6 i + j], {i, 0, 29}, {j, 1, 6}]]
The other colors get chopped off, but I think I can fix that. :) Thanks!
 
Umm... pretty sure that's not what I should be getting...
 
@yoda expand that....
 
12:59 PM
what?
 
Yeah, you have to resize; the default size doesn't cut it for color swatches... :)
 
Drag the resize handle.
 
ooh
lol
I thought it was an invasion of weird fonts...
 
You could use Grid but it will be large.
 
Hey, I like these colours...
 
1:02 PM
Have you not used them before?
 
Nope. I guess these were in v6 and earlier? My first version was v7
 
There are named colours for atoms as well
 
Yeah, that's the instant periodic table in mma
 
yoda, correct
@Heike I'll ask you directly: which answers, yours or otherwise, do you feel have not received the attention they ought?
 
AllColors = First[ColorData["Legacy", "Range"]];
swatch[i_] :=
  Graphics[{If[i <= Length[AllColors], ColorData["Legacy", AllColors[[i]]], White],
    Rectangle[{0, 0}, {1, 1}]}, AspectRatio -> 1,
   PlotLabel -> If[i <= Length[AllColors], AllColors[[i]], ""]];
GraphicsGrid[Table[swatch[7 i + j], {i, 0, 27}, {j, 1, 7}]]
Beautiful! Thanks Mr. Wizard!
 
1:14 PM
Nice update.
Okay J.M., will you answer my question?
 
@MrWizard Which?
 
"I would like the rest of you to tell me what answers you think have not gotten the votes they deserve."
 
@rcollyer I've set you on course (possibly) for a gold badge on MSO =)
Also, I hate that filter :)
 
acl
@Szabolcs But you are plotting something that's practically designed to focus attention on the effects of numerical noise
 
@MrWizard Only two here, thank goodness. On math.SE however...
 
1:27 PM
7
A: How do I draw a triangle given the lengths of the sides?

J. M. I'm not sure how to draw a triangle if all I care about is the length of the sides. (I'm happy to place one of the vertices at the origin and place one of the sides on the nonnegative side of the $x$-axis, but that doesn't really matter.) Is there a straightforward way? Given a triangle with...

This for sure :) Both the other answers are not complete!
 
I wasn't actually thinking of that, but... :) I got seven votes; can't complain...
A lot of my good answers in math.SE are lucky to get five votes, so my expectations on an SE site have always been low...
 
I haven't voted on that one but it's on my "to review" list (what I've been using Favorites for on the new site, in addition to some actual favorite questions).
 
@JM well, math.se definitely has more volume... and I got the impression that folks generally compartmentalize themselves and restrict to their subject area
 
@yoda Well, there are 47 "Generalists" there, but otherwise... yeah.
(On that note: I definitely wasn't expecting the "SVD on pictures" answer to get a crazy amount of votes...)
 
@JM that was the easiest 20 votes earned (for me)... the work was already done =)
 
1:35 PM
I like the hummingbird better than Lena
always just women women women, too much!
 
Perhaps an SVD of the full Lena would've been more convincing ;)
 
@yoda I wouldn't risk it... :P ;)
 
Happy to see fruitful discussion in my useless topic. ;-)
(What does AWOL mean? The thing that Heike is?)
 
@David Nah, it's fine. I had to dig out my old physics textbook to answer your question... ;)
@David "absent without leave"
 
Absent WithoutOut Leave
 
1:37 PM
(though MIA might be slightly more appropriate)
 
@David it's the hottest question, so job well done!
 
Using the site as a discussion forum again ... mathematica.stackexchange.com/questions/1910/…
 
Cannot close question: question is closed
Oh well.
 
We must not scare away people with good intentions though ...
 
closing early is like mercy killing before the downvotes pile on
 
1:42 PM
I think Verbeia is in the best position to talk to him...
 
Especially knowledgeable people who are just not yet familiar with the site format
This should go in the performance-tuning wiki, I guess
 
We need to get him into this room.
 
@MrWizard use @@ to lure the lamb
 
I don't think the downvote was appropriate here. I am happy that this is a much friendlier community than SO and I want to keep it that way. This had to be closed, not downvoted.
I don't like to downvote when the intention is good
 
(I assume you guys have been told about the @@ ping...)
 
1:44 PM
I downvote drive-by questions where the asker has put in no effort at all or is just asking for the code. That is a different situation.
 
@Szabolcs It's a system downvote that's automatically given out for NaRQ
 
Oh
 
What's the @@?
 
Community at work? :-)
 
@yoda I have a feeling I should understand that but I don't.
 
1:45 PM
I read it and though "wait, can you apply to users on SE? That's not a list!"
 
@David That's how moderators can ping anyone in chat, even those who have never joined the room before
 
So I can't do it? Meh
@JM your confetti code is really slow when you use 1000 of them.
 
@yoda Who can use @@ ? It is moderator-only, isn't it?
 
@MrWizard What Szabolcs said. If you just type @@, it should give you a pop-up. Choose the second option (network user) and enter his user ID. You can't use the first because I assume he hasn't visited chat and created an account yet
@Szabolcs yeah.
 
@Szabolcs Care to explain your poor man's antialias? Why is it necessary (compared to using automatic antialias)?
 
1:47 PM
No rep thresholds then, or anything of the sort. We plain users will never have it
 
@tedersek please join us in chat
 
\o/
 
@David Because many people don't have access to antialiasing. You need a good graphics card with good drivers to have it. (And you know the situation on Linux)
 
One way of quickly identifying an @@ ping (assuming they always autocomplete and didn't type it out) is that it'll be in all lowercase
See here: @mrwizard
 
My situation on Linux got fixed after two years of searching. And switching licences to get access to the Wolfram support. ;-)
 
1:49 PM
Meh, FrontEnd crashed. Had to retype half the notebook again.
 
@David I have Intel integrated graphics, which means no antialiasing on Windows, and I'm happy if it doesn't crash on Linux (even though the Intel drivers are actually opensource---but something's wrong with then in Ubuntu 11.10)
 
Oh. Okay, makes sense then.
Didn't know about those issues.
 
That will teach me from setting the upper bound of an Animator control to Infinity in Manipulate.
 
All, on my way skiing. I'll drop in now and then if I get some internet. Cheers!
 
@Heike "I'm a physicist, infinity is just some number" ;-)
Meanwhile: JM's confetti is still rendering
 
1:51 PM
@SjoerdCdeVries ski safe :)
 
Which reminds me --- I must get some work done before my supervisor returns from his skiing trip ...
@David I'm the one guilty in making his confetti so slow ... just remove the antialias part---your graphics card does support it natively anyway (and the minor quality loss is negligible for animations)
 
Why do you use ImageResolution anyway?
Shouldn't ImageSize make much more sense?
There's no inches on a raster graphic after all, seems like a rather inaccuate thing to use to me
 
@David No. Offset-coordinates (i.e. font sizes, AbsolutePointSize, AbsoluteThickness, etc.) don't scale then.
 
Oh.
 
ImageResolution is the correct option to use here. It still has the problem that tick marks in 3D won't scale properly. I think this is a bug.
I'll also make fonts blurry, so it's not really ideal. But I did try to implement a simple subpixel scaling to ameliorate the problem. I don't have the code here now though ... and MrW complained that on his rotated screen there was a lot of colour fringing (of course, since it wasn't horizontal RGB)
The subpixel scaling was based on this: code.google.com/p/windjview-subpix (if you read the algorithm, it's obviously inaccurate and thickens lines slightly, but in practice it worked well for me)
 
2:13 PM
@David Yeah, that's why I limited it to only a few Polygon[]s. 3D is slow as heck.
Also, what Szabolcs said.
 
@JM Mind me updating your anwer with a longer timeframe and 1000 confettis? :-)
 
@David can you post the animation here? I'm curious!
 
Just started rendering
Needed the kernel earlier to trial-and-error-answer some question
Curiously enough, the number of particles does not seem to have much influence on rendering time
50 is very slow, 1000 is very slow.
How does exporting to GIF work by the way? Simply use a list of Graphics?
 
Yes.
 
@David Oi.
 
2:18 PM
Well that's easier than I expected. Why have I never done that?
(Oh, because I hate GIF. But here it's neat.)
 
If you make it work, sure. My computer is too underpowered for such luxuries as 1000 polygons... ;)
 
@JM May I ask what is your native tongue? I was always curious.
 
@JM You've got a graphic card as opposed to a graphics card?
 
@David It's a netbook. I'm apparently the only guy nutty enough to run Mathematica on a netbook.
@Szabolcs Sure. "Filipino", it's called...
 
@JM You mean Tagalog?
 
2:20 PM
@Szabolcs That's not what it's called nowadays. :)
 
@JM Netbooks are as large as graphical calculators and run Mathematica. That automatically makes them superior to ... every graphical calculator.
 
(But most of the words came from there.)
@David FWIW I used to write numerical methods on a Texas Instruments calculator. Just for giggles.
 
user image
3
 
OK, I know three people from there and and least two of them have a different mother tongue (the third I don't know)
 
BOOYA
1.6 megs gif ;-)
 
2:21 PM
Should be possible to optimize it with the right tools (I think ImageMagick has something)
 
I like how they disappear automatically after some time.
"Something"?
imagemick -makegifsmaller?
 
@David Well, you could adjust the value of tf in the code; I just wanted the projectiles to have a limited run...
@David Beautiful! :D
(I only saw it now because my connection is soooo slow...)
 
Let me see whether I can shrink that to reasonable file size.
 
@David Really pretty
 
2:30 PM
@JM Found that site already. Looks mean.
However, I found out that Heike's image is 1.5 megs as well.
 
@David: if you manage to shrink it to a reasonable size, then yes, please edit it in. :)
 
So might as well ... ;-)
@JM How do I edit the frames per second of the animation?
Maybe I'm using 50 fps right now.
{tf = 5, frames = 160}
Does that mean 160/5 fps?
 
@David No, tf just controls the range of the parabolas.
 
I don't understand.
I haven't read the code and don't feel much like it either ;-)
Pasting longer sections from SE is kind of painful to read in the frontend
 
@David I just implemented projectile motion in 3D there. All the polygons are following random parabolic paths. :)
 
2:35 PM
and tf determines the range of t those particles stay on the parabola?
 
@David Yep.
 
So what do I have to change to get n fps?
 
You'll need to tweak "DisplayDurations" in Export[] I think. It's duration per frame, so some arithmetic will be needed. ;)
 
Oh, I was just reading about that.
The help on GIF says that's only available for Import. Good to know.
Should I simply post it as a new question? :>
"How to optimize GIF export"
 
@David No, that works in Export[] as well.
 
2:41 PM
How do you use it?
 
Well, if you need to do 50 frames per second, then "DisplayDurations" -> 1/50...
"DisplayDurations" -> 1/50 - "display one frame for 1/50 of a second."
 
This is a very annoying thing to do. Back to hating GIF.
(I can't really test it because of the rendering time.)
 
?
 
@David I have to agree it's rather hit-and-miss.
 
2:47 PM
If you can come up with some code I'm happy to render it, otherwise I'm done with confetti for now.
Poor long animation above, made to be see on chat only ;(
 
Okay. That other link was with the exponential fitting question you answered....
 
... yes ..?
 
I mean I posted a nongraphical method. ;) But again, it was a good call to remind him to plot his data.
 
Nongraphical? In my Mathematica?
I really do the plotting all the time.
And even if it's just a remainder that what you do can be represented by something pretty every once in a while.
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Bachelor spam? Seriously?
 
Well feck, if there were only a way to make income double by the day...
 
2:58 PM
Seeing I have 0 income that wouldn't help me much
(I don't think another Bachelor's will improve my scholarship much)
 
@Szabolcs Heike was first by a mile, but her solution doesn't work on version 7 so I am keeping my answer as it is.
 
3:18 PM
@MrWizard It's difficult to correct it for version 7 unless you give some indication of what fails or what messages you get
 
3:42 PM
@Szabolcs sorry, that's true. ImageCorrelate doesn't not accept distance functions I guess.
ImageCorrelate::nonopt: Options expected (instead of EuclideanDistance) beyond position 2 in <<1>>. An option must be a rule or a list of rules. >>
 
@MrWizard umm.. it should
 
okay I'll revisit that later (someone remind me if I don't .. assuming you care)
 
4:16 PM
@yoda are you still here?
 
@MrWizard I am a bit surprised you posted an answer here: mathematica.stackexchange.com/q/1917/12
This is not even a question, just complaining, isn't it an obvious candidate for closing?
 
@MrWizard yeah
 
@Mr. Wizard: thanks again for the swatch routines; I managed to produce this.
 
@Szabolcs on darn, forgot to wear the moderator hat. Okay it's probably not the most fitting question, but darn, it's going to come up sooner or later. Now I've put my foot in it.
 
Well, three votes to close is damn fine enough for me. Thwack!
 
4:22 PM
@yoda I'd like to figure out what is different about ImageCorrelate and if it is unexpected.
 
sure
 
J.M. I make my answer a CW so that I am not getting points and so that if anyone has something they simply must add they can. Does this seem reasonable?
@yoda in v7 the docs read:
 
@MrWizard It's your call. I don't really have a problem with your answer.
 
ImageCorrelate[image,ker]
gives the correlation of image with kernel ker.
There is no mention of a third argument, outside of Options.
Are you saying there is a way for me to use code like Szabolcs and Heike posted somehow?
 
oh hmm. I'm used to the v8 one now, and didn't realize it was different from v7. I wouldn't be surprised though, because Image processing functions got massively improved (and added) in v8
 
4:27 PM
My point is that this was not a question. It was put in the form of a question, but the motivation of the asker came from annoyment, and not wanting to solve a problem. There's no good answer that can be accepted and there's no good answer that can be useful to people (other than "yes, others are annoyed too, and others are complaining too, but there's still no undo")
 
In that regard, it does sound like that "what's up with this cell business" question from a week or so ago...
 
It does.
 
@MrWizard you're right. The third argument is not possible in v7
 
Regarding whether or not this kind of question can be answered I think it reasonably can be, but it requires either an official answer or something carefully reasoned. I have myself asked question about the design of Mathematica and I hope that others will be able to do the same without getting hammered. This one has been argued so much that I think the only answer can be to direct someone to past arguments.
 
acl
@MrWizard Are you referring to the undo question?
 
4:32 PM
yes, pardon me for not being clear
 
speaking of that... is it possible for you to say, copy a particular function (built-in) from v8 and run it on v7 (assuming you have all other functions it depends on)?
 
Here is a question of mine that I would not like to see closed, for example.
@yoda I suppose if the code is available in a .m package or by unsetting ReadProtected, and the code does not depend on anything else that is unavailable by these means (or easily implemented) then yes.
 
acl
@MrWizard This is simply my personal opinion, and others will have different opinions, but I very much do not want to see such questions here. One can go to the mathgroup for that.
 
@acl thanks for your opinion. As a moderator it is my duty to listen, and care. :-) For clarity, you are referring to mine, correct?
 
I don't think the real question (the motivation behind the question) was "Why did they decide to do this? What's the advantage?" I think it was "Do you agree with me that this is so annoying?". Every other word processor has multi-level undo, at this point it's quite clear to anyone that there's no good reason not to implement this except maybe technical difficulties (the design of the front end may make it difficult to implement)
 
4:39 PM
@MrWizard Funny, I was wondering the same about FoldWhile vs. NestWhile.
 
@Szabolcs Okay, let us grant that. What about a question like mine?
@Heike that one I assume is because NestWhile allows one to write certain common loops in a more Mathematica way; "FoldWhile" doesn't match an existing paradigm that I am aware of, but I believe it can be fairly easily implemented with Throw/Catch or Return.
 
acl
@MrWizard Not at all, I am referring to the undo thing. Yours is thought-provoking (although again it is not "I am trying to solve this problem") and the answer you accepted was insightful. "why no undo" is not thought provoking and I literally cannot imagine what a helpful answer would look like (apart from "I work at WRI, am responsible for all frontend development, and I won't put undo because X", which won't happen and anyway is not the kind of answer this site is for, in my opinion)
 
@acl okay, thanks for the distinction.
 
acl
@Szabolcs How does it make it difficult? If I ignore the state of the kernel, then it becomes matter of multi-level undo in a fancy word processor. If I don't ignore the state of the kernel then it is a different story.
 
What @acl said. @MrWizard Your question looks like the motivation behind it was to learn/understand the design of the language (and perhaps become a better programmer). To be honest I don't think a lot of interesting things would come out of your question, but I would not have though of closing it because it looks like an honest question that stems from thinking about the design decisions behind the language (and not a complaint)
 
4:44 PM
@acl If they haven't given a concrete answer on MathGroup after participating all these years, they probably are never going to do that here either... so better to close than invite rants and guesses
 
What yoda said.
 
acl
@yoda Yes, I simply ran out of space to add that. Also perhaps someone (a moderator, or one of the closers) could explain to the person having asked the closed undo question that it was not closed because "undo is not possible" but because X Y Z. Otherwise it looks like an arbitrary closure.
(he posted a comment under his question)
 
@MrWizard your question is also relevant when you're thinking about implementing a package and the kinds of functions that it should export. It has relevance.
 
@JM I've updated my question here
6
Q: RootSearch for complex or multiple equations

Eli LanseyFirst the background. I'm trying to solve for the roots of a rather messy complex equation. This is not the exact equation, but it's a decent (simpler) stand in: Tan[x - I a] + I == I (x - I a)^(-1/2) I can use FindRoot to solve for a particular root, i.e. FindRoot[Tan[z] + I == (I) (z)^(-1/2...

I think your suggestion might work (it works for the original sample I suggested), but I'm not sure how it might be generalized for the more complicated example.
 
@acl Szabolcs already said what had to be said...
@EliLansey It wouldn't, I think; solving simultaneous complex equations has always been a nasty affair; more so if the equations are transcendental.
 
4:48 PM
yeah, tell me about it
MMA can "happily" solve them numerically using FindRoot
but it just finds a single root
 
One should really try to do as much analytical effort (root asymptotics, etc.) as can be mustered if one is going in the business of solving transcendental equations repeatedly.
 
the problem is
in reality two of the factors in the equation come from experimental datasets
(optical properties of metals)
which you can sort-of come up with analytical approaches for
but not always
 
acl
@JM OK, but within ten minutes of it being posted, two people think that the OP's comment "Interesting that this was closed even though links to five satisfactory, concrete answers were provided. I'm glad the closers waited long enough for those to get posted. If the answer to a question is "that's not possible," does it cease to be a question?" is a great comment.
 
Wait... these factors, are we talking numbers or functions?
 
@JM some numeric (physical dimensions, i.e. a, b, wavelength, some interpolated functions, ie nm km)
 
4:51 PM
@acl I've given up understanding voting patterns on SE sites... stuff can get voted for the silliest reasons.
 
acl
@JM Fair enough.
 
@EliLansey "some interpolated functions" - aye, there's the rub. There's no plausible functional form for those?
 
@JM for some materials there are possible functional forms
but
ultimately, there's going to be some numerical values in there somewhere
 
Well I was thinking as long as in fact none of your functions is an InterpolatingFunction[] or something, there might still be hope for analytical attack...
 
@JM Last night I tried the Reduce approach, leaving everything symbolic
killed my computer :)
8gig RAM, not enough
i might try it again over the weekend on a 32gig machine
that would be freakin' awesome
but i suspect it's unlikely
 
4:55 PM
@EliLansey Maybe there are common subexpressions you can try simplifying first?
 
@JM not anything i'm aware of... not that is worth much of anything
 
In which case... good luck.
 
@JM lol, gee thanks :)
 
@EliLansey Well, you've made it sound as if your equations were refractory to analysis... :)
 
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