The Whiteboard

1:07 AM

Posted by Joel Spolsky on February 6th, 2012

Stack Exchange co-founder Jeff Atwood announced that he is leaving the company to spend more time with his family, including his twin daughters Maisie Jane (5lb2oz) and June Adeline (5lb 7oz) who celebrated their 0th birthday (and joined Twitter) last Friday, to the great joy of their parents.

It has been a great honor for all of us to have worked with Jeff over the last four years as Stack Exchange grew from absolutely nothing to a world-changing resource with over 30 million monthly visitors.

When I first met Jeff, I told him that when Stack Overflow was built, it would become a standard part …

user20683

1:24 AM

@MarkTrapp Sadface

user20683

@digitaloday This site's chat is proneto long downtimes with furious uptimes in-between

user20683

though I'm usually around when I'm on a computer

user20683

unless it's at work and my boss is looking/we are busy

user20683

2:43 AM

@Rachel you can take out the question mark from "Husbristic?" It's the correct form when used as an adjective.

Yannis Rizos

3:04 AM

@ThomasOwens I think you'll find this MSO question interesting (not in itself, but as an index of the SU FAQ rewrite process)

user20683

@YannisRizos Now that's what I"ve been talking about

Yannis Rizos

@WorldEngineer I think you'll find this MSO question interesting (not in itself, but as an index of the SU FAQ rewrite process) :P

@WorldEngineer I don't think we need a major rewrite of the FAQ, but the process is interesting nevertheless.

user20683

@YannisRizos They don't mention us for Programming

Yannis Rizos

And of course I wrote SU, but Super User has nothing to do with it... The rewrite is for Server Fault's FAQ...

@WorldEngineer Just noticed myself, and I was wondering if it's actually a good thing

user20683

@YannisRizos how so?

Yannis Rizos

3:12 AM

We don't overlap (much) with Server Fault, I think most of the crowd there when they think of programming they think of code, not whiteboard decisions

user20683

@YannisRizos true

user20683

your average system control scripts are rather different from typical user apps

Yannis Rizos

And in any case, SO is very liberal with what they migrate to us, if a good P.SE question gets there from SF, I'm sure they will send it to us (along with all the usual crap)

user20683

@YannisRizos I vote we rename ourselves "The Slag Heap" :P

Yannis Rizos

So we won't be missing any good questions from not being mentioned on SF's FAQ... If we were, we might had to fight quite a few incorrect migrations from SF...

user20683

3:15 AM

truth

Yannis Rizos

25

Q: Modifying the faq, shopping edition

The 'product recommendation' question occurs here a lot. I propose we modify the existing FAQ language: and it is not about … Networking outside the professional workplace Running servers at home for personal use General personal computer troubleshooting … then you’re in t...

We need something along those lines...

Aaaaaa! Best badge ever! Generalist!

user20683

@YannisRizos yeah

user20683

I need to get better at drawing, coding and speaking German

user20683

or French or Russian

Thomas Owens

3:33 AM

@YannisRizos Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, I'm kind of swamped for the next day or two. Took on what I thought was one side project, turned into two, and now I'm organizing. I'll try to monitor that, though.

Yannis Rizos

@ThomasOwens Yeah, don't worry about it, I didn't mean you should see it asap :). I don't really think we need a massive rewrite, but the process is interesting. In any case, it's still ongoing, we should give it some time and evaluate when the SF people can actually tell us if it was worthwhile.

Rachel

3:52 AM

@WorldEngineer lol sure :) I looked it up shortly after but never bothered updating it

Yannis Rizos

4:35 AM

We have a Marshal! Good job @jonsca!

user2334

9:24 AM

New list on meta: Users sorted by activity

Yannis Rizos

9:42 AM

Related: Listen to Your Community, But Don't Let Them Tell You What to Do...

Yannis Rizos

12:32 PM

New silver badge! Research assistant

John Shepard

1:56 PM

Hi all

Rachel

2:34 PM

@YannisRizos Congrats, I was wondering what was with all the tag wiki edits. Nice edits though.

Rachel

2:45 PM

@YannisRizos You should stop putting logos in tag wikis....

Yannis Rizos

3:13 PM

@Rachel :P Yeah, when I added the first logo, I immediately thought: Ok, that's a sign you should stop. :P But went ahead and added a couple more... Only added logos from open source projects though, and did check SO tag wikis, they all have them.

@Rachel Wasn't a badge run though :) We've postponed the tag cleanup for after the election, which ends today, so I thought of adding tag wikis to the popular tags that had none... Went a bit overboard, obviously...

@Rachel And now I'm resisting the urge to add a recursive tag wiki for recursion...

Rachel

3:49 PM

@YannisRizos Feel free to add tag wikis, just don't add images to them unless they help clarify things :)

Yannis Rizos

@Rachel (resisting the urge to add related xkcd to tag wikis) :P

user20683

4:50 PM

@YannisRizos I've tried that, they get deleted

user20683

5:14 PM

@MarkTrapp for this question meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/3064/… why no mention of Math.SE?

user20683

they take Algorithm questions as long as they are mathematical in nature and not the design or implementation thereof

user2334

@WorldEngineer Math tolerates a very small subset of CS questions (algorithms) insomuch as they originate on their site. They don't encourage them, and encourage people in their FAQ to ask on SO instead

user20683

@MarkTrapp yeah that's why I didn't add it to the question. I figured as much

user20683

NP questions would be on topic for TCS IIRC

user2334

As long as they're theoretical in nature and at a graduate-level or higher. They don't entertain undergraduate or applied questions

user20683

5:18 PM

@MarkTrapp I actually think an undergrad CS site is a bad idea

user20683

since it will become a homework trap

user20683

and most undergrads don't really understand what CS is really about/need to be in Software Engineering programs

user20683

it's admirable to want to program games

user20683

that's fine and dandy

user20683

games don't make the world go round

user2334

5:33 PM

Non-graduate level CS has been underserved on the network, even in a professional setting. I think Physics.SE and Math.SE are both good test cases in how to prevent a similar site from being overrun with homework help

user20683

@MarkTrapp yeah I'd agree. What do you think a good cut-off is for including a programming language on my graph of doom? I think if it's on Stack Overflow (with say more than 5 tags) it should definitely be there.

user20683

I'm debating the idea of relational lineages

user2334

6:04 PM

@WorldEngineer graph of doom?

user20683

@MarkTrapp I have this insanity laced idea for making a graph/chart/flowchart thing for the "What Programming Languages should I learn?"

user20683

for the blog

user20683

trying to figure out how to structure it as things like that are prone to exaggeration/kruft

user2334

Step 1: Learn any language that uses curly braces to designate scopes Step 2: learn other languages as they strike your fancy :P

user20683

@MarkTrapp just because its how we were taught doesn't make it right :P Also this thing is designed to handle what language "next" questions rather than just "I am newbie, hear me whimper"

user2334

6:12 PM

Oh if we're going to go by how we were taught, then QBasic comes first. I think higher of people learning programming now though

user20683

@MarkTrapp once you filter out systemic variants (the Iron Family or Jwhatever) the list of actual widely used languages is quite small

user20683

Also I have a fool proof noob test. "Do you think knowing HTML makes you a programmer?" If yes, you are noob; take two Python and call me later.

Thomas Owens

Part of me wants to answer that licensing question now, but I'm sick. When I'm sick, I tend to have really weird thought patterns and the answer would probably come up really weird.

user20683

@ThomasOwens If it comes out weird you can always edit it later.

Thomas Owens

Yeah. And I've got nothing better to do.

user20683

6:25 PM

You could also wait until after the election finishes in an hour and change to answer it

user20683

just in case you are worried that the answer might turn people off

Thomas Owens

It won't.

At least, it shouldn't.

user20683

@ThomasOwens If it does we are a far more judgmental lot than anyone suspects.

Thomas Owens

So I read that article and looked at the date - this year. I'm kind of excited about it, especially in the kind of work I do. The engineers at work are split, but most (if not all) of the project engineers are PEs, I believe. It might make it easier for me to move into a project engineering position. So much nicer than the business PM side, IMO.

user20683

@ThomasOwens At Georgia Tech management is what you do if you suck at everything else

Thomas Owens

6:31 PM

There was a phrase at RIT.

user20683

that's the stereotype anyway

Thomas Owens

If you can’t hack it, pack it; if you can’t pack it, sell it; if you can’t sell it, draw it; if you can’t draw it, take a picture of it.

user20683

Georgia State though is renowned for the rigor of some its programs in the business domain

Thomas Owens

The business school at RIT is up and coming, but it's usually graduate degrees and minors for scientists and engineers.

user20683

And if you can't take a picture of it, Photoshop it

Thomas Owens

6:33 PM

Actually, apparently Packaging Science majors make a ton of money. And I still don't even get what packaging science is...

And a friend majored in it.

user20683

@ThomasOwens it's the design and engineering of packaging

user20683

like how to design egg cartons and Office Depot Boxes

user20683

also artsy stuff like how to design appealing cans

Thomas Owens

It's apparently pretty intense, too.

Yeah, it's half physical engineering and science, a quarter art, and a quarter business. They learn a bit of everything.

user20683

Architecture at Tech is so much work they are the only building on campus that's not residence or gym to have showers

user20683

6:35 PM

Eat, Breathe, Live Studio that last year

user20683

I wish GSU had a SE program

user20683

I like CS but I think it underserves a lot of students who just want to be developers and don't care about rigor

Thomas Owens

Do they have an SE track or concentration?

That's something that a lot of schools that didn't want an SE program started doing.

user20683

@ThomasOwens neither really

user20683

They have one class

user20683

6:39 PM

Software Engineering

user20683

it's a result of the department being a 12 year old spin off of the Math department

user20683

cs.gsu.edu/?q=BS_requirements

user20683

part of me giggles at "BS requirements"

user20683

every single time

user20683

I really need to switch from CSS to Graphics or Databases

user20683

6:43 PM

I want to do AI/Database work on visual images/visualizations and programming language work

user2334

@yannisrizos Please do not copy and paste Wikipedia articles into tag wikis, especially tag wiki excerpts: we cannot meet the attribution requirement in them

user20683

@MarkTrapp could you elaborate on the attribution requirement? ours or theirs?

user2334

@mapleshaft Please stop blindly accepting things in the suggested edit queue: you're approving content for which we are violating the license on

Yannis Rizos

@MarkTrapp Most excerpts I did today were copied from SO. I'll revisit tomorrow and revise those that are blatant copies from Wikipedia

Thomas Owens

I think it's both. No one can see the person who wrote the content on a tag wiki, which I think is against the CC licenses.

user20683

6:47 PM

@ThomasOwens that makes sense

user2334

@YannisRizos You can't do that either without proper attribution.

Thomas Owens

But don't quote me on that - I'd have to read the CC license carefully. But there's just generally poor attribution/historical tracking of tag wikis and exerpts.

user2334

@WorldEngineer Tag wiki excerpts have no means to attribute the content to an author (because they're short excerpts). Copying and pasting from Wikipedia violates their attribution requirement (just like someone copypasting from SE without adding a direct attribution violates ours)

Yannis Rizos

@MarkTrapp I'll do a couple and ping you to check them out. I'll revise... heroically :P

Thomas Owens

Speaking of tag wikis, am I the only one who doesn't like that the tag wiki is put on a tag page, and not the excerpt?

programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/web-development as an example.

user2334

6:50 PM

@YannisRizos The goal in tag wikis is to explain how to use the tag on our site: copying and pasting from Stack Overflow and Wikipedia tells people nothing about what the tag is for on Programmers.

Thomas Owens

Do the moderator election results get posted automatically?

If I wasn't sick, I'd be throwing a party. But I'll have to settle for slowly sipping a ginger ale and eating a couple of crackers.

user2334

@ThomasOwens Automatically yes, immediately no. Usually happens after a couple of hours. The data is available immediately though

Thomas Owens

So I can grab the data and see who won. After I finish this answer.

psr

7:23 PM

@ThomasOwens - If you feel like sharing the data in chat it would be appreciated.

Thomas Owens

It'll be posted.

So everyone will have it.

If I can compute the results, I might post those. But I don't know what is needed to do so.

Jarrod

@ThomasOwens Don't worry - I'm doing exit polls.

Thomas Owens

@Jarrod Do you have a magic wall and holograms and touch screens?

Jarrod

@ThomasOwens Totally. Its called my white board.

Thomas Owens

@Jarrod I did math for that Scrum question on my whiteboard. I was failing at dividing two numbers earlier.

Jarrod

7:35 PM

@ThomasOwens You're sick. Sick + Math = fail.

Thomas Owens

Yeah. I know. I'm feeling better, though. I had some applesauce.

Jarrod

I use sick days to learn new programming languages - last time was Haskell. Can't remember a thing from it. Wonderful day.

After awhile your mind gets so numb you just fall asleep without even realizing it.

Rachel

8:01 PM

Only 297 votes, I thought there'd be more

user2334

Congratulations, @ThomasOwens and @YannisRizos!

4

user20683

@MarkTrapp precisely who I figured would win

Thomas Owens

Wow. Thanks.

Less than 300 voters, though? That's a shame.

Rachel

Congratulations Thomas Owens and Yannis Rizzo (if I'm reading the results right)

user20683

What were the parameters used? Scottish and San Francisco?

user2334

8:04 PM

@WorldEngineer Meek and SF

Jarrod

Where are the results posted at?

user2334

@Jarrod Right on the election page

user20683

you use OpenSTV to run them

Jarrod

@MarkTrapp Good call. The link disappeared so I was confused.

user20683

I'm impressed but not surprised by how things stacked out vote wise

user20683

8:06 PM

I figured they'd win it but not by those margins

Rachel

Hrrrm 5x the number of eligible voters visited the site during the election since last year, but only a 1.3x increase in actual votes

user2334

@Rachel We have now broken the record for the worst turnout in an SE election

2

user20683

@MarkTrapp sorry but Rofl

Rachel

@MarkTrapp # of users, or percentage of users?

user20683

probably both

Jarrod

8:12 PM

@Rachel Looks right - Thomas and Yannis

user2334

@Rachel Percentage. Just above 5%

user2334

@WorldEngineer Nah: there are sites far smaller than ours, but have much higher turnout %s

Rachel

There's a lot of people who participate in the site, but are unhappy with the direction the site is going. That's probably part of it

user2334

@Rachel If you're unhappy and you don't say anything, it's your own fault.

user2334

Democracy is for those who show up

4

Rachel

8:14 PM

I almost voted for Glenn as my 1st vote because he was the only candidate who had a more relaxed stance on moderation, however in the end my votes were for Thomas, Maple, and Yannis since they'd make better moderators and are much more active

user20683

Autocracy is for those who don't

user20683

and Anarchy is off topic and not constructive

Jarrod

Dang - endowment of powers sure is fast.

Yannis Rizos ♦, Thessaloniki, Greece

8.3k 1 2 18

discussion support tags feature-request status-completed on-topic-definition closed-questions

user20683

@Jarrod This isn't Gaming, Lazers don't run things here :P

Rachel

Anyone know if you can use multiple @name in a single chat message?

user20683

8:22 PM

@Rachel @MarkTrapp I think so

user20683

I can't recall

Rachel

@MarkTrapp @WorldEngineer I know you couldn't, but I think someone pinged me once along with someone else, so I wanted to see if that changed or not

@WorldEngineer I got that ping, but I was also first on the list :)

user2334

Double ping works in chat, but not in comments

user20683

@MarkTrapp is it 2 max or something larger?

user2334

@WorldEngineer It's at least 14: we use a bot to ping all the mods for a site, and it works for SO

user20683

8:26 PM

To the meta stack overflow!

Rachel

@MarkTrapp Thanks :)

user20683

8:41 PM

@@@@

user20683

So apparently there's no upper limit

Anna Lear

8:58 PM

@ThomasOwens @YannisRizos Congrats, guys.

@Rachel I can't say it better than Mr CRT already did here.

Steve Jackson

The election results are funny because I spent alot of time agonizing over my third vote and it didn't matter. Congrats to @Thomas and @Yannis and thanks to @Rachel for putting the results on meta so I didn't have to grab em.

Rachel

@SteveJackson For the most part, its your first vote that matters (or since we're electing two moderators, first two votes). Any additional votes only get used if one of your first choices are knocked out of the race. At least, that's the impression I got last time I checked :)

Steve Jackson

I like how you're encouraging me to be lazy in future elections :)

Rachel

9:16 PM

@SteveJackson We had less then 300 votes total, so I felt that my vote was actually worth something. I definitely wouldn't recommend anyone be lazy at election time!

Jarrod

@Rachel Definitely.

I'm compiling some statistics on our election - we may not have performed as badly as we thought.

Rachel

@Jarrod I'd be interested in seeing the results when you're finished.

Jarrod

i'll post them on meta sometime tonight

Jae

10:03 PM

13

Q: Congratulations Yannis Rizos and Thomas Owens: Our Newest Community Moderators!

Congrats to Yannis Rizos and Thomas Owens! They are our newest members to the P.SE Moderator Team. I have a feeling this site is only going to get better.

discussion moderators

Jarrod

11:48 PM

@Rachel meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/3075/…

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