The Whiteboard

And they are kind of unbelievable how they went from a 12-week release cycle to a 2-week release cycle and they are still complaining about things not happening fast enough.

But whatever. I think it's an improvement and the team seems to like it.

We're starting to broaden our skillset. That's our new challenge.

Ixrec

is there a specific reason they wanted an emergency release?

Kit Z. Fox

One of them wanted the button back that she wanted an emergency release to take out two weeks back.

And the other one wanted a fix to a button that accidentally got replaced with a different button.

ArtOfCode

o/ @Kit

fancy seeing you here

Kit Z. Fox

Hi! I know you!

Aaron Hall

ok, I just got a 128 GB SD card, and I checked it out with f3, and I got an error while writing...

ArtOfCode

4:16 PM

@KitZ.Fox :O

Ixrec

lol, Kit usually has more to say in here than any of the other regulars

Aaron Hall

>>> (128 * 10 ** 9)/float(2 ** (10*3))
119.20928955078125

but my error was at 116.99 GB

Kit Z. Fox

I'm not sure if I've ever mentioned that particularly after I have excess coffee, I feel the need to prattle endlessly if there is no conversation going on.

Aaron Hall

those 116.99 GB read back ok though

user41796

Depeche Mode - Enjoy The Silence (Official Music Video)

►

Aaron Hall

4:17 PM

do I declare the chip good or bad?

Kit Z. Fox

@AaronHall The thing, with the little bit of the GBs that is used for the um. thing.

@GlenH7 I know. I know I do it too. It's an irritating habit.

Aaron Hall

I think I'm being shortchanged 2.2 GB

Kit Z. Fox

Try it again.

Ampt

@AaronHall reserved space for system info?

Aaron Hall

It took over 4 hours to write, and about 2 hours to read.

for an SD card?

Ampt

4:19 PM

don't they still have index headers to tell the system where files are at?

Kit Z. Fox

@Ampt That's the thingy I was trying to think of.

The file index stuff.

I got "OS" and "Sharpies" stuck in my head.

Aaron Hall

it's got the exfat file system

I don't know the overhead for it.

I did have to install the exfat utils from the repos

bigcodeszzer

I have returned.

Input command

Ampt

ExFAT

exFAT (Extended File Allocation Table) is a Microsoft file system optimized for flash drives. It is proprietary and Microsoft owns patents on several elements of its design. exFAT can be used where the NTFS file system is not a feasible solution (due to data structure overhead), yet the file size limit of the standard FAT32 file system is unacceptable. exFAT has been adopted by the SD Card Association as the default file system for SDXC cards larger than 32 GiB. == Overview == exFAT was first introduced in late 2006 as part of Windows CE 6.0, an embedded Windows operating system. Most of ...

Aaron Hall

exfat is MS. crap.

bigcodeszzer

4:22 PM

For vengeance

woah arraon

you said a bad word

ban that

MS?

flag that

sorry, I won't take it back

e, plz...

Ixrec

...

really?

Kit Z. Fox

4:23 PM

@bigcodeszzer Knock it off.

user41796

@bigcodeszzer Echoing Kit, knock it off

enderland

I was going to say that @KitZ.Fox :(

Aaron Hall

Yeah, don't flag silly stuff.

bigcodeszzer

knock what off?

He said a bad word.

user15026

I think that's the first time I've seen a crap flag from this room.

bigcodeszzer

4:24 PM

I got flagged for saying less

user41796

I'm reading through this AM's transcript and it doesn't appear that you've got much ground to stand on

Aaron Hall

less is a stupid utility. - just kidding, I use it all the time...

Ampt

Stop while you're only slightly behind.

Kit Z. Fox

@bigcodeszzer It's not a competition.

Ampt

I think the mods are pretty done with people using this room to goof off

5

bigcodeszzer

4:25 PM

I was talking about exceptions

Ixrec

I think he got the message

Hosch250

Go goof off in the Trash, or create a room for goofing off.

user41796

@Ampt Yep, exactly

Hosch250

CR had to--the Nth Monitor. Filled with trash, it is.

Kit Z. Fox

So I'm using MS Paint to create a mockup for a new page template.

Seriously. I am.

Hosch250

4:26 PM

@KitZ.Fox For Programmers?

user41796

@bigcodeszzer You weren't. And petty attempts at trolling won't garner you anything except a lengthy chat suspension.

bigcodeszzer

I was invited to this room from a question

Kit Z. Fox

@Hosch250 For business.

bigcodeszzer

which I was consistently addressing

I /was/ talking about exceptions.

Hosch250

Oh.

Kit Z. Fox

4:27 PM

It's kind of fun.

Aaron Hall

yeah, so now we've changed the subject - why don't you try reddit/r/exceptions or something like that?

Kit Z. Fox

Also time consuming.

bigcodeszzer

Weak aaron.

user41796

Paint is horrific for templates

Kit Z. Fox

I'd rather write the code.

Hosch250

4:27 PM

Yeah, the mockup is the hardest. I usually just make a template webpage, then change the text out after the HTML is done.

Duga

SO focuses on specific programming problems, not strategy problems such as you present. Your question might be more appropriate for programmers.stackexchange.com — John Bollinger just now

Kit Z. Fox

But that's part of why I'm making the mockup. It's a delay tactic.

Aaron Hall

I've used powerpoint since I don't have vizio. But anyways, that 2.2GB is due to exfat?

user41796

@AaronHall possibly. Could also be due to marketing

Kit Z. Fox

Oh right, that autoexecute download drivers thing.

user41796

4:28 PM

1 KB being 1024 bytes. The error propagation can throw numbers off

Kit Z. Fox

Oh that.

Aaron Hall

13 mins ago, by Aaron Hall

>>> (128 * 10 ** 9)/float(2 ** (10*3))
119.20928955078125

I'm pretty sure that should be the minimum actual memory I should get on a stick of memory advertised as 128 GB.

that means 2.2GB is missing due to formatting overhead or an error on the chip - or both.

Duga

This is a bit outside the scope of Stack Overflow. You may want to look at one of the other programming related Stack Exchange sites, like programmers.stackexchange.com — Archer 11 secs ago

Aaron Hall

but when f3 finished writing, it said Write to file ...117.fff failed: Input/output error

user41796

4:44 PM

@AaronHall IO error implies something bad on the device, I'd agree

Aaron Hall

When I finished f3 read, I showed Data OK: 116.99 GB Data LOST: 0.00 Byte (same for Corrupted, Slightly changed, and Overwritten)

user41796

So you're getting 117GB on a nominal 128GB drive?

Ampt

honestly, to me that sounds normal

Aaron Hall

just under

116.99

Ampt

between marketing overplaying everything and overhead from filesystems, I usually just chop off 15%

Aaron Hall

4:50 PM

it cost me 35 or so with shipping on Amazon.

user41796

Yeah, running the numbers myself, I'd agree that they lied by about 2.2 GB

user41796

Yes, I know you pasted them. Doesn't mean I didn't feel like double checking. :-)

Aaron Hall

That builds credibility, not a bad thing.

Ampt

again, that doesn't account for the filesystem

Aaron Hall

As well as verifying my numbers.

My wife hates it when I check what she tells me, as if she can't possibly be wrong ever.

user41796

4:53 PM

@Ampt That's about 1.8% in overhead for the FS which seems high. But .... maybe not when you consider marketing-lies overhead + FS overhead

Ampt

I mean it is a MSFT filesystem format

and there's CRC checking done

not sure if that's allocated at format time or not

Aaron Hall

I got it for audio recording, I figured slow write speeds wouldn't be an issue.

user41796

Little did you know that they would lie to you!!!

Ampt

@AaronHall errr... hopefully your device does compression then?

Aaron Hall

As long as it just goes to overhead, I'm ok with it.

Ampt

4:55 PM

raw .wav files are something like 3200KBps?

Aaron Hall

It can compress to MP3, but I'm going to try to record at high quality - wife's a violinist, and I want to podcast myself.

user41796

@AaronHall A good RAT shouldn't take up 2.2GB, so I wouldn't worry about it. :-)

Aaron Hall

The recorder is a Zoom H6

I think I bought it straight from the company on ebay.

Ampt

wow

Aaron Hall

Not the cheapest seller, but it seemed the safest.

Ampt

4:58 PM

is it going to assimilate you?

Aaron Hall

I hope so.

MS docs:

> To clear an environment variable In a command prompt build window or a batch file, type the following command:
(Note Ensure that you do not enter a character or space after the equal sign.)
set <environment variable>=

significant white-space

how about that?

user41796

In MS land? Happens all the time

Aaron Hall

I wish there was a way to follow that with a command for a one-liner. I hate having to paste it, hit enter, then paste the actual command I want to run.

Thomas Owens

@AaronHall Why is that a problem? Including a space at the end would set the environment variable to a space character.

Which is something that you may want to do.

Aaron Hall

why isn't there an unset?

Thomas Owens

5:04 PM

That's a good question. But the problem isn't significant white-space.

Aaron Hall

that's what MS could have done. Instead, no, they're stupid. And now we finally have bash on windows. Maybe I can get us to put that in our system...

We'd probably have to pay Canonical and MS for the privilege, wouldn't we?

I develop stuff that runs on Linux. Why can't I just have a native Linux development environment?

rages against the machine

whatsisname

why don't you?

Thomas Owens

You're trying to develop Linux applications on Windows?

Why?

At least use a VM.

whatsisname

there are plenty of decent linux IDEs

and plenty of other stuff if you don't use IDEs

Aaron Hall

My boss said he approved my 16 GB of ram, and I still haven't heard anything about it, so I think the wheels of progress turn slowly here...

I use emacs, dagnabbit, you kids get off my lawn.

Ampt

5:09 PM

how much ram does your VM need?

Aaron Hall

IDK, as much as I can give it, assuming I have it, which I don't.

user41796

@Ampt He's doing some ETL into tableau

Thomas Owens

A development machine shouldn't need that much RAM, should it?

user41796

So he needs as much as he can get

user41796

@ThomasOwens depends upon what you're running

Aaron Hall

5:10 PM

my dev environment and everything costs up to 3 GB just idling

Ampt

lol what

Thomas Owens

@AaronHall Why?

Ampt

3GB to just sit there?

user41796

my system has 16, I routinely have 10 - 12 in use at any point in time

whatsisname

a development machine should have at least that much RAM

Aaron Hall

5:11 PM

Yeah, we're appy.

Ampt

@GlenH7 yeah, I agree that ram is great, but for a use-specific vm running emacs....

user41796

@Ampt Emacs is an OS. It'll use whatever you give it. :-)

whatsisname

you should put 32G in there instead of 16

Aaron Hall

My work IDE is built in Python, tying together a bunch of commercial C++ libs (dev express or something) and made to work like eclipse

I have emacs on it just for fun.

I'm trying to use emacs fairly exclusively on my personal laptop, though.

whatsisname

i think its lunchtime for me

Thomas Owens

5:40 PM

Apparently, this really old Java bug is biting some coworkers.

Aaron Hall

out of memory - :(

gonna reboot

ciao!

user41796

6:11 PM

And now it got all quiet again...

Thomas Owens

We're all out of memory and rebooting.

user41796

Apparently

Thomas Owens

Is JSON Schema something invented by people who wanted the safeness of XML but the coolness of JSON?

user41796

Nah, more like an abuse of what JSON was originally intended for

user41796

Crockford never meant for JSON to be used the way it is

user41796

6:16 PM

It was more of a "XML is too heavy for tiny messages, just use this instead"

Thomas Owens

There is something to be said for schema validation, especially when sending messages between two separate parties.

Kit Z. Fox

OHAI!

Thomas Owens

But yeah, it does seem to go against JSON. If you are thinking of using JSON Schema, maybe you should just stop and use XML instead.

user41796

Which is what XML is good for

Kit Z. Fox

Someone need me to fill up space?

user41796

6:17 PM

ding!

user41796

A few more comments and the current page will be all blue user comments

Thomas Owens

A few projects use JSON as internal messages. Just about every external message is XML, though.

user41796

I'd apologize to @AaronHall, but it doesn't look like he survived the reboot

user41796

@ThomasOwens small, lightweight, minimal needs? Use JSON. Need things like validation and shared formats across teams? XML

Thomas Owens

Oh. Almost bumped the last non blue message off of my screen.

Like 2 or 3 more lines.

user41796

6:20 PM

We can do this!

Thomas Owens

His name is off the page now.

And so is the last message! VICTORY!

user41796

Success! A page full of blue users

ArtOfCode

have another one

user41796

Woo hoo!

user41796

@ArtOfCode - thanks for helping out in the room earlier

ArtOfCode

6:22 PM

No worries :)

user41796

After reviewing the transcript, I think longer suspensions would be warranted for that user should they create problems again

user41796

And yes, I'm intentionally leaving that as a public comment.

Ixrec

we use JSON Schema where I work, everyone's loving it

Thomas Owens

@Ixrec Why aren't you using XML?

Ixrec

I'm not understanding the "if you want to validate stuff, go to XML" argument at all

ArtOfCode

6:23 PM

@ThomasOwens Why aren't you using jQuery?

Ixrec

well, for one our code is in Javascript

user41796

Curse you @Ixrec - you broke our string of comments from blue users!

Ixrec

and not that weird branch of Javascript with native XML support

for another JSON is still way less verbose than XML

though we are using XML for other stuff

user41796

I think you have a point with preferring JSON when you have two javascript apps communicating

Ixrec

if this was meant to be a format exported by a public API that apps in any language from any company might consume, then I'd see a strong argument for XML because it has the one standard schema format everyone knows about

our use case is some fairly large JSON objects which will be used by whatever teams in the company integrate with our app, but probably always in frontend Javascript code, so...why bother with XML?

oddly enough our JS framework doesn't come with either XML or JSON validation built-in right now, so that's another reason XML doesn't just win by default; not sure if infrastructure just hasn't gotten around to it or if they found existing schema formats lacking or what

Aaron Hall

6:55 PM

I'm back, going to see if I can deserialize a big table...

nope, big fat fail

it worked before...

maybe I should do it in a cmd shell...

Aaron Hall

7:10 PM

fail

Adam Zuckerman

7:27 PM

@GlenH7 what are blue users?

Thomas Owens

@AdamZuckerman If you're a moderator on an SE site and that account is your chat account, your name is blue. See mine?

whatsisname

they're sad

they've got the blues

Thomas Owens

I'm Blue da ba dee da ba daa Da ba dee da ba daa, da ba dee da ba daa, da ba dee da ba daa

Adam Zuckerman

I am using the mobile interface, so no I don't.

Thomas Owens

Oh.

whatsisname

7:29 PM

Gary Moore: Still Got The Blues (lyrics)

►

Adam Zuckerman

I do now that I have switched back

Aaron Hall

7:46 PM

we should automagically change youtube videos to nocookie.

Aaron Hall

8:43 PM

zzzzz

DeliriousSyntax

8:56 PM

@AaronHall your the only one left

Aaron Hall

Long day. I think I'll go home and go to sleep...

@DeliriousSyntax oh yeah, DS, do me a favor will you, look up the overhead for an exfat file system on a 128 GB harddrive?

DeliriousSyntax

sure

Aaron Hall

9:27 PM

how's that coming?

Find it out?

Duga

9:59 PM

Fairly broad question for SO. Might be a better fit over at programmers.stackexchange.com — mccainz 27 secs ago

Aaron Hall

10:09 PM

^^^^ IDK

user15026

@AaronHall I thought I'd try to find this out just for something to do and I just got very confused

Robert Harvey

10:38 PM

57

Q: Examples of math hoaxes/interesting jokes published on April Fool's day?

What are examples of math hoaxes/interesting jokes published on April Fool's day? For a start P=NP.

[sigh] HNQ strikes again.

Really surprised that MO allows these sorts of questions.

user15026

@RobertHarvey Eeergh, I hate questions like that.

user15026

I get why people keep asking them (especially if the site allows them) but I don't like them one bit.

DeliriousSyntax

@AaronHall no, but I looked. I had no idea what any of that really means. I did copy and paste the question into google and click a few links though. Then I tried googling what overhead meant and exfat

Transcript for