The Whiteboard

user55340

7:03 PM

Two options: falloutshelter.com and store.steampowered.com/app/340150

whatsisname

I think today should be the day I deactivate my facebook account

user41796

@whatsisname As opposed to any other day?

whatsisname

today especially

there is this news story about this local dentist that went hunting in africa and shot an apparently popular lion

and stories about it keep popping up, and the people that are commenting on it are downright psychotic

user15026

@whatsisname The one who was being used for research with the GPS tracker on it?

user15026

Because yeah, every time I've seen it, the comments seem to go right off the deep end (for whatever value of deep end the person subscribes to)

whatsisname

7:08 PM

I don't think so, but maybe? usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/07/28/…

user15026

@whatsisname Yeah, it mentions he had a GPS collar and was being tracked by a research group in that article.

Telastyn

yeh

whatsisname

anyways I don't think seeing those kinds of comments benefits me in any way, so I should just cease facebook activity, cuz it keeps putting that sort of insanity in my face

Telastyn

too much hunting around here. It's kinda weird and creepy.

user15026

@whatsisname Knowing when to say "okay, enough of this crap" is a good skill, I think.

enderland

7:11 PM

just unsubscribe from people, I have perhaps 1/3 of the people I am friends with that I actually see posts from

whatsisname

it disturbs me knowing that the people behind the comments are real people somewhere

user15026

@enderland This is what I do a lot.

whatsisname

in a way that ordinary internet trolls do not, because people posting this crap on facebook/news articles are often sincere in their insanity

Jimmy Hoffa

> US Congress has opened an investigation into a blast at the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) facility in Gaithersburg, Maryland, that is suspected to be the result of a drug-cooking operation gone wrong.

user55340

Not going to where crazy people are helps ones own sanity. If you go off by yourself, be sure to be sane.

Jimmy Hoffa

7:13 PM

^-- if NIST out here had any drug cooking operation gone wrong, that would just mean Boulder got really ... well, like Boulder.

whatsisname

I think the facebook commenter saying the dentist and his family should be murdered is not trolling

user55340

People seem to forget about other people via text and lack of non verbal/ written to help signal "ok, you are being crazy" prevents helpful feedback.

enderland

@whatsisname the part that gets me is when people fbook post it is associated with their REAL person, too, at least the random anonymous posts could be kids screwing around

Jimmy Hoffa

@whatsisname welcome to America; many of it's inhabitants aren't joking, but you'll sleep better at night if you just tell yourself they are.

whatsisname

it reminds me of the times i've spent doing election-related canvassing and how demoralizing that is

@enderland: right, and that's what all these crazy comments are from

Jimmy Hoffa

7:16 PM

@whatsisname eww, that does sound terrible. Count me out.

whatsisname

@JimmyHoffa: Minneapolis has a newly ranked-choice election system, and recently i did a thing where we went around door to door to show people the ballots and how the ranked choice works, etc

nothing to do with candidates, issues, etc, just the mechanics of the voting system

Jimmy Hoffa

@whatsisname lots of people yelled at you for being pro-choice?

whatsisname

no, but I did have a guy ask me what we thought we should do about ISIS

and I'm like "what?!?!"

user55340

I'm pro-determisim

whatsisname

some people got really annoyed when I refused to say which candidates I "supported"

Robert Harvey

7:20 PM

public class VerificationProcessor: IVerificationProcessor
{
	...
	public Task<IVerificationResult> IVerificationProcessor.Execute(IConfig config, VerificationRules rules, ...)
	{
		var result = new VerificationResult();
		var processor = this as IVerificationProcessor;   <------
		// Do stuff with processor
		return result;
	}
}

user55340

Unless you want to start debating if electrons have free will... Which is a valid interpretation in some quantum mechanics theories.

enderland

"I support voting!"

Jimmy Hoffa

@whatsisname I feel bad for solicitors who show up at my door, it's not their fault I'm surly and angry at them for bothering me; I've been too lazy to go buy one of those No Soliciting signs. Frankly in my case, it should say something more cautionary than just "No Soliciting"

whatsisname

at least the people there, while often incomprehensibly moronic, at least weren't crazy with deep-seated violence like the facebook commenters

Telastyn

@RobertHarvey - umm wut?

Jimmy Hoffa

7:21 PM

@MichaelT but everybody knows those are all just commie theories, in the proper quantum capitalist mechanics theories the electrons will is for sale at a fair market value

user55340

arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0604079

user55340

Basically: if we have free will, so do electrons.

whatsisname

@JimmyHoffa, yeah, when canvassers show up at my door I'll usually let them give me their thing, and ask them a few questions just to give them the chance to speak about it

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT sounds a little too red to me

whatsisname

even if I disagree with what they're doing, I at least acknowledge the person is passionate about it

user55340

7:22 PM

Free will theorem

The free will theorem of John H. Conway and Simon B. Kochen states that, if we have a free will in the sense that our choices are not a function of the past, then, subject to certain assumptions, so must some elementary particles. Conway and Kochen's paper was published in Foundations of Physics in 2006. They published a stronger version of the theorem in 2009. == Axioms == The proof of the theorem as originally formulated relies on three axioms, which Conway and Kochen call "fin", "spin", and "twin". The spin and twin axioms can be verified experimentally. Fin: There is a maximum speed f...

user55340

@JimmyHoffa I'm either green or yellow depending on your color model.

Jimmy Hoffa

@whatsisname I would only feel more guilty if I wasn't rudely rushing them off - they're only wasting their time at my door and I figure they've better things than spending pointless air molecules staring at my mug

enderland

Eh, a moderately friendly response is probably way above average even if you do usher them off ASAP

Jimmy Hoffa

Market economy

A market economy is an economy in which decisions regarding investment, production, and distribution are based on supply and demand, and prices of goods and services are determined in a free price system. The major defining characteristic of a market economy is that investment decisions and the allocation of producer goods are mainly made by negotiation through markets. This is contrasted with a planned economy, where investment and production decisions are embodied in a plan of production. Market economies can range from hypothetical laissez-faire and free market variants to regulated markets...

Robert Harvey

@MichaelT So basically, if information can be transmitted instantaneously in some way, then the whole thing collapses?

whatsisname

7:25 PM

@JimmyHoffa: even if they're wasting their time, you don't have to tell them that, and while they're talking about their thing they're enjoying themselves

user55340

High school English teacher told of college roommates (mixed gender) answering the door for door to door types naked. Jehovah witnesses only showed up once.

Jimmy Hoffa

@whatsisname you have got to be kidding me - solicitors actually enjoy what they're doing?

enderland

> will be retiring from [redacted] as of April 30, 2016, with his last day in the office August 25, 2015

Jimmy Hoffa

Seriously?

enderland

wat

user41796

7:26 PM

@enderland That's a lot of banked vacation time....

whatsisname

the times where someone asks them some relevant good questions is the time they enjoy it

user41796

Although most companies just pay that out

enderland

I have no idea what happens at that point, but srsly dude take vacation!

user55340

My father had 10 months banked when he retired. And then he earned some more significant vacation when that was up.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 most companies don't allow that kind of banking these days

user55340

7:34 PM

Neither I, nor my father work(ed) for a company

Ixrec

@JimmyHoffa yeah, mine has a limit on how many days can "roll over" each year

user41796

I blame the IRS for all of those issues

user41796

Companies used to let employees accrue a lot more vacation than what they currently do now.

Ixrec

well, I'm in the UK

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 and companies used to hold onto employees for years, give pensions, and healthcare used to be worth a damn, lots of things used to be, I don't think the IRS is to blame for the numerous used-to-be's that all invariably benefit corporations

enderland

7:37 PM

my megacorp still offers a pension for salaried folks...

@Ixrec the IRS has its reaches, you cannot escape!

Ixrec

@enderland ...sadly, this is true

user55340

Puts big numbers in balance sheets that annoy accountants. Makes for larger hits when they lay people off and pay it out. Makes for protracted periods where less can be done when someone is on vacation for a month or two.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa On accruing vacation time, it is actually the IRS's fault.

user41796

They changed how they wanted those hours accounted for and the hours became a liability to the companies. As that affected the bottom line, out they went.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 perhaps initially; but if whatever they did was reversed tomorrow- no one would get more vacation allasudden. Corporations wouldn't go back

enderland

7:40 PM

course retirement age going up affects this too, if you are 65 right now with 40 years service at my company you get a crazy vacation amount (35+ days I think) but mine will top out at 25, even if I hit 50 years service

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Different issue there

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland haha "crazy vacation amount" == 35+ days... or the absolute minimum in much of the world

user41796

You used to be able to roll over a lot more vacation hours from one year to the next. It was actually in the company's interest as they got more work out of you "this year."

enderland

@JimmyHoffa well plus holidays, you're talking basically 10 weeks off a year or 20% of the year

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland ...so 2 more weeks than the bare minimum in most first world countries

user55340

7:42 PM

At 4 weeks of vacation/year, I can start banking all but two weeks each year.

Jimmy Hoffa

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2730947/…

whatsisname

my first job I had only 10 days vacation, now 20 with ability to do unpaid time off

i can't imagine only 10 days now

or 0

user55340

Employer^^, I only had 3 after a full year and a half working there.

user55340

Days. Not weeks.

Jimmy Hoffa

I've been 10-15 at each job I've had, this job it's 15 but there's zero buckets so that's sick also. Last place was 10 days sick on top of the 10 days vaca and 2 floating personal days.

I think last job was the most I ever had if you accumulated it all

whatsisname

7:49 PM

that sounds rough

Jimmy Hoffa

eh, I haven't used PTO in ages, it's always been for family doctor stuff - some day I'll go on vacation again

Duga

If you don't know where to start then post this on programmers.stackexchange — UnknownOctopus 57 secs ago

user15026

@Duga This strikes me as terrible advice.

Ixrec

@AshleyNunn indeed it is

user41796

Wretched advice for a low quality question

Robert Harvey

8:00 PM

@Telastyn Does that make any sense? This is how my predecessor was implementing interfaces explicitly.

Seems like he didn't quite understand what "explicit interface implementation" meant.

Basically, he was using explicit interface implementation to create "containers" for different class responsibilities.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey it's a bit overboard but it does make sense. I wouldn't do it - but I do know why somone would do it

The idea there is: working only with the facilities made available publicly by using that processor variable, it constrains him to working with the guaranteed portion of the object. There'll be no hacky add-on pieces just for that little bit of processing without them being added for all implementors. Same reason the person used explicit interfaces to begin with; to constrain the coding possibilities. Frankly I never use explict interfaces because they just cause problems...

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa In this particular case, there's only one method on IVerificationProcessor: Execute. According to the code, he's calling it recursively, so I guess he wants to hide all that from the rest of the class.

Jimmy Hoffa

If I don't want something visible to consumers I won't make it public...

@RobertHarvey wait what

Robert Harvey

Execute(). It's being called recursively using that processor variable.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey no that doesn't make sense, that wouldn't compile - or rather it would just stack overflow...

Robert Harvey

8:06 PM

Well, there are exit conditions.

Jimmy Hoffa

where?

Robert Harvey

VerificationRules has a Children member.

No Children is the exit condition.

It's a hierarchical rules engine, in other words.

enderland

@JimmyHoffa yeah... the bright side is we (Americans) theoretically make more ;)

Jimmy Hoffa

oh that's perfectly fine then

@enderland if only I could pay for things with theoretical money

enderland

@JimmyHoffa =P I guess

Jimmy Hoffa

8:10 PM

@RobertHarvey so it's looping and the exit condition is the end of the traversal. Makes perfect sense to me. The cast to it's explicit interface just guarantees if the interfaces signature ever changes compilation will break and it'll let him know. It's a habit from the other coder probably - a very thorough and expansive coder... not my cup of tea but it's not without reason

Robert Harvey

OK.

Jimmy Hoffa

I'm a fan of shortened code, the code base you're in was written by people who were fans of comprehensive convention

I bet they put interfaces on their dumb property bags too, aye?

Lots of classes implementing IEquatable<> and IComparable<> ? Manual implementations of IXmlSerializable ?

Duga

Questions that ask "where do I start" are typically too broad and are not a good fit for this site. People have their own method for approaching the problem and because of this there cannot be a correct answer. Give a good read over Where to Start, then address your post. — gunr2171 32 secs ago

Telastyn

@RobertHarvey - not from that example. Generally speaking, relying on explicit implementation is a smell. Fragile and easy to miss/forget.

like doing crap in explicit conversion operators.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Telastyn that's only a problem if you have implicit implementation too - but since there's no way to guarantee implicit implementation isn't also there... I completely agree, explicit implementation is really not good. It has reasons, just not ones I would agree are anywhere near worth the problems

Telastyn

8:20 PM

ah, yeah, probably true.

user55340

@Duga whee! Another false positive from a link to my meta post about where to start. Thank you for the warm fuzzy.

durron597

@MichaelT It's from the same person.

@MichaelT He's one of the room owners in SO Close Vote Reviewers

user55340

Still a warm fuzzy.

user55340

(Has he seen the "explain this code" essay?)

durron597

35

Q: A guide to Code Review for Stack Overflow users

You're on Stack Overflow and you've found a question that seems to be about improving code. You are trying to be helpful, and you put a comment in the question: You should try asking on CodeReview.SE instead. —YourName 2 minutes ago … and suddenly, out of nowhere CodeReview.SE users swoop i...

user55340

8:31 PM

7

Q: How to ask "how to understand some code" questions

Often we find questions along the lines of Help me understand this C program #include<stdio.h> main() { printf("Hello World"); } Well, that one may be a bit simplified - but its not an uncommon form for a question that is asked here. How should one prepare and ask a "what does this c...

discussion closed-questions asking-questions

durron597

8:42 PM

@MichaelT That should really be on MSO.

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa More interfaces containing one method ("Execute" or "GetSomething") than I am comfortable with.

But as you pointed out, they're mostly guarantees for method signatures.

Task<IVerificationUnitOfWork<IEnumerable<IExternalData>>> GetCandidates(IVerifyConfig config);

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey yeah - it causes bloat, increases maintenance cost, has all form of negative side effects like that - but I don't classify that sort of nasty as the ignorant/reasonless sort, so it at least indicates the system was coded by folks with some forethought rather than people flinging vermicelli at a computer to make spaghetti

user55340

9:03 PM

@durron597 mso was less receptive and harder to find. Gnat wrote a version on mso- note it isn't not in a site faq and not as often referred to.

Robert Harvey

I can't figure out what this line of code does:

 var param = Expression.Parameter(typeof(T), "e");

Ixrec

@RobertHarvey that code looks like the start of a joke

Robert Harvey

Ah, I got match from Google.

blog.csainty.com/2008/04/linq-to-sql-generic-primary-key.html

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey it's creating a parameter expression with a generic type and the name "e" (I think that's name and not value...)

Robert Harvey

Yeah, apparently it eventually gets used in a "computed" lambda expression, as in e => { }

So the e is an arbitrary letter.

durron597

9:19 PM

@MichaelT Most sites don't have nearly as well maintained faq as programmers does.

Telastyn

Woo, expression trees!

Expression trees are great.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Telastyn yes - but they perform horribly if you recreate them often. Create a few of them - and make them parameterized so they can be reinvoked with different parameters or you're going to hate everything about everything.

user55340

@durron597 nor policy essays written with intent to explain the consensus.

Jimmy Hoffa

Alternatively - use dynamics and simple manual call-site generation to do exactly the same thing as what people usually use expression tress for with less code and an easier to cache system (just cache callsites rather than some complex expression tree key)

Robert Harvey

It appears that my predecessor implemented a whole bunch of "Fetcher" classes that re-implement EF CRUD.

Robert Harvey

9:42 PM

They get plugged into a Fetcher Factory.

durron597

@RobertHarvey Is this bad enough for you to be willing to diamond delete or at least close this?

Robert Harvey

Deleted.

durron597

@RobertHarvey Thanks!

Ixrec

10:01 PM

those new feed items are just begging for close votes

enderland

@Ixrec good call

Ixrec

wasn't quite sure about the "uniform distribution" one but eventually decided to leave a comment and VTC as unclear

I managed to work out what he's trying to say with his example but it remains underspecified

Telastyn

11:30 PM

@JimmyHoffa - oh yeah, all true. But the idea is you make them once at startup, compile to delegate, then run as expected.

psr

@JimmyHoffa Sorry about the late response - I was engaging in a respectful silence for the brave souls risking injury or death to establish national standards for drug cooking.

Transcript for