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user55340
12:03 AM
Meta isn't that hard if you spend some time lurking to find the common questions and duplicates. Then you make sure you read those duplicates. Proposing novel solutions to existing problems can earn quite a few upvotes. Proposing repeatedly shot down and answered solutions to problems gets down votes for lack of research.
 
user55340
82
Q: Add a "don't migrate crap" migration 'path' to all sites

MichaelTDon't Migrate Crap This is the golden rule of migrations. And we do it far too often. I'll even admit to it. Its sometimes difficult to justify to one's self to spend more time drafting a custom off topic reason to say it when it is more work than the OP has spent putting into writing the que...

feature-request migration close-reasons
 
user55340
41
Q: Better "Flag for migration" interface

MichaelTCurrently, the only way to ask for something to be migrated to a site that isn't part of the standard migration path is through a custom mod note. I currently have two active custom mod notes on Stack Overflow that ask for migration that are not standard targets for SO. I believe the questions ...

feature-request migration
 
psr
psr
12:27 AM
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@psr yes and it may be the answer, but the question lacks a number of relevant constraint criteria. MEF isn't extremely efficient last I checked, also it's not completely clear to me whether it will unload/reload things in your app domain, so I'd have to google that off hand. I kind of agree with @Telastyn here - what is this application that's running constantly enough that you would want to hot-patch the assembly?
For me, if I want a dependency to be isolated enough from my process as to be able to change without me changing my process, I tend to make it a whole separate process, and communicate with it through IPC- web service request or mq messaging, whatever IPC approach makes sense for the particular service's behaviour
then if I want to update that dependency, I update it as an independent service without upsetting the other services
@RobertHarvey ---^
There's a million and one ways to do what you're asking, but frankly your question lacks detail of the broader use case / purpose that would be necessary to choose the right approach
maybe manual reflection is appropriate, maybe sticking the application into IIS, maybe separating the application into multiple applications, maybe MEF, maybe Expression Trees, dynamic call site construction, IL emit, or dynamic C# compilation make sense. I've seen all of these approaches used for runtime dynamic invocation and they all have their places.
@psr how you feel about that M...something... lib now? Played with it any more? I'm about to start on a web UI from scratch myself so I'm pondering approaches as it is
likely going with Knockout, but figure I'll peek around to see; there's this "durandal" thing which is supposed to be Knockout + other stuff...
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
1:24 AM
@JimmyHoffa The use case is replacing some classes on a server without taking the server down. It's not IIS.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@RobertHarvey what is "the server" ??
that is too vague to really decide a good solution for
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Technically, I suppose it's a REST server implemented in WCF.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
why is it not IIS? How often are these classes replaced? Does your application run continuously?
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Because they didn't choose IIS. Often enough to justify a hot-fix type solution. Yes.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
ok, why isn't that in IIS?? I'd just put it in IIS... I used IIS to host a WCF REST service at my last job, worked great, super easy...
it's like 3 lines of code
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
1:25 AM
And the WCF application can run as-is?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
in your global asax you just bind the service to a router and off you go
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
OK. I'll see if we can give that a go.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
> RouteTable.Routes.Add(new ServiceRoute("myRestService/v1.0/whatever/", new WebServiceHostFactory(), typeof(TaskService)));
something like that
toss that in your global asax's application start
and when the first request of the app comes in, it kicks on, registers your WCF rest service at that route and tada.
IIS handles unloading the worker processes app domain whenever files change, and the next request loads it back up. If the service is highly stateful - fully unloading the app domain may not be something you want to do though.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
The frontend is a silverlight clone, so stateful might be an understatement.
That said, it's all supposed to be completely RESTful.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
well if you have a stateless RESTful WCF web service, I would encourage hosting in IIS. The front-end is irrelevant and a separate piece.
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
1:37 AM
Also, how many servers are in play? Unless you only have one (not recommended) rolling deployments may get what the client needs in a more maintainable way.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
I think they just have one, but I'm not sure. They're on Rackspace. The development process is spartan, to say the least.
Though the development tools are more than adequate.
 
user55340
 
user55340
meh, link shorted too much to get full effect.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
FTFY
 
user55340
try clicking those links on the side for a bit on that page.
 
user55340
1:44 AM
Though on the subject of real news articles generated by a computer: npr.org/2015/03/23/394906521/…
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Lol
 
user55340
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
A bit paranoid, are we?
 
user55340
Nope. Just like NPR.
 
user55340
And noting a certain someone wrote an answer to a question that might be able to use some references.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
1:46 AM
Waitamminit... Am I talking to a... Machine?
 
user55340
@RobertHarvey Nope, that would be @gnat.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Heh.
@JimmyHoffa If you want to post an answer, I'll accept.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@RobertHarvey @Telastyn's answer is the correct one it sounds like, your question was just lacking details for him to address his answer to (that it's a WCF REST service currently self-hosted in an application, stateless, and needing frequent patches)
 
user55340
@RobertHarvey btw, glance at this one and consider that interview process.
 
Duga
Duga
SO isnt suitable for this kind of discussion. Perhaps you have better luck at programmers.stackexchange.com — Rosdi Kasim 24 secs ago
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
2:02 AM
@RosdiKasim No no no no! — Jimmy Hoffa 22 secs ago
I just didn't feel like saying any more, I think I got my point across though.
 
Duga
Duga
@RosdiKasim: Programmers isn't solely about discussions. Is the post about one of these topics? — Robert Harvey ♦ 39 secs ago
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
2:58 AM
huh, purescript looks awesome
time for another beer; just to verify my findings.
 
user55340
3:34 AM
 
Hawk
Hawk
8:34 AM
Hello everybody, May I know what is the best practice in terms of development projects planning. We usually have more than 2 projects at the same time, and our boss gives each of us one project to focus on. Although we are being asked to collaborate and that one will lead, usually the project lead will get too absorbed and everybody will end up with tunnel vision.
For example, one of the guys has been working on a game on his own for almost a month, another one was asked to work on mobile App on totally different platform, and so on. So, what is the best? to work in this way, or to finish projects one by one as a team?
 
Duga
Duga
9:17 AM
Because someone probably thinks your question is too broad or opinion-based, and is voting without leaving a comment suggesting that it might be a better fit for dba.stackexchange.com or programmers.stackexchange.com — geofftnz 50 secs ago
 
Stack Exchange
Stack Exchange
9:48 AM
-4
Q: Php vs MEAN Stack technology

SfAnkiI'm Php developer from last 2 years and hybrid and mean stack app developer from the last 4 months. So Can i get reviews or share some articles on Php vs MEAN Stack technology pros n cons in terms of modern development, Future scope,Application scalability and performance.. and market demand. Tha...

discussion programmers-se
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
 
 
2 hours later…
gnat
gnat
12:21 PM
@StackExchange folks, do you by chance know why "Stack Exchange" bot feeds garbage from MSE into our room? I noticed it first yesterday, when it "advertized" a spam question dumped over there. Just a few minutes ago it vomited that "php vs blah blah technology that was -4 at the moment of posting here and was later quickly removed (and soon after that reposted at Programmers). Did I miss something?
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
@gnat the bot's feed filters on the programmers-se tag so if a new question with that tag gets posted then it will appear here
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
> Active questions tagged programmers-se - Meta Stack Exchange posted by Stack Exchange
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@gnat Because people are feeding garbage into Meta.SE.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
To the business of why I came here: if you are not already aware, please be warned Rogue Sharukas has been trolling on a few sites on the network. I don't have 10k here so I don't know whether they've already done anything here and been dealt with, or simply haven't acted yet. I'd be flagging, but they have nothing for me to flag.
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
12:35 PM
@doppelgreener doesn't seem that bad stackexchange.com/users/6616384/rogue-shakuras?tab=activity (unless it's been cleaned already)
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@doppelgreener We know already. The mods talk.
Well, the mods are aware of problematic users across sites.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@ratchetfreak It's their QA. The one from RPG.SE already got deleted, the one from English.SE got edited, the remainders are downvoted to oblivion.
@ThomasOwens Thanks, good to know.
(Just realised that link doesn't point where I thought - check their Posts, not all activitiy.)
(but this in the hands of the network's mods, which is great news)
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
1:08 PM
Who wants Programmers EBooks made on Twitter?
 
user55340
@gnat I put that feed for the room because people were posting meta questions about us in MSE. For the most part it's quiet. Other times, that feed has pinged about people complaining about us closing questions (to which some response was needed)
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@MichaelT I think it's generally useful.
Except when people aren't.
But, anyway, a Programmers ebooks twitter account. Awesome or not?
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
1:23 PM
what would it do? auto tweet hot questions?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@ratchetfreak Are you familiar with horse ebooks?
It would be that. I'd take a Programmers data dump of questions, answers, and comments and just run it through the bot.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ThomasOwens horsey books? Horses can't read!
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
A friend of mine made one that consumes tweets about Boston 2024.
He said it was easy to make.
The only work I'd have to do is massaging the data dump to put it into a text file .
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
I wrote a twitter search / display client for an interview test once, it was pretty easy to use
 
user55340
-2
Q: How to perform triage on candidates coding assignments?

Mawg[Update] (after the question was put on hold). How bets to rephrase the question? Basically, I fear being buried under the effort of what my boss refers to as "taking a look at the submissions". How can I perform triage, sorting the wheat from the chaff, while still being fair to candidates? ...

c++ web-applications websites static-analysis
 
user55340
1:31 PM
Any chat discussion on the subject?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Not that I've seen.
But it does need more editing to reopen, I think.
To get rid of that old question whatever.
 
gnat
gnat
@MichaelT I see, thanks! Suspected something like that (I even vaguely recall discussion about this) but couldn't figure because feed didn't show that it's "our" tag over there
 
user55340
For me it's separate them into the 10% and everything else with a 30 second glance.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
This tool called MobaXterm is all the rage at work.
It's like putty, but on drugs.
Integrated X11 server, tabs, cool stuff.
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
and plays a moba for you on another screen
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
1:34 PM
I wish.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ThomasOwens do tell? I'm actually going to have to do some deployment/testing over ssh today...
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@JimmyHoffa There's a free version. But what do you want to know?
It has built in sftp, too.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ThomasOwens does it require the server run anything more than sshd? What is this "integrated X11 server" it's running?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
So after you log in using ssh, you can copy files right into your directory structure. As you cd around, the file tree even changes.
@JimmyHoffa Not sure which one. I'd have to look. One sec.
But no. The server just needs sshd. It needs X installed if you want to do X forwarding, though.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
don't mean which, I mean what is it...what does it do? What's it useful for?
this mobaxterm runs on windows, aye?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
1:37 PM
Yeah.
It's a Windows ssh / sftp / xdmcp client.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
awesome
Totally going to grab that so I can do my testing more easily today
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
SSH, telnet, rsh, xdmcp, rdp, vnc, ftp, sftp, serial, file, shell, browser, and mosh.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
The Whiteboard++
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Browser is an embedded internet browser. Mosh is "mobile shell". Both are experimental.
 
André
André
mobaxterm does brew coffee too?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
1:38 PM
Shell is a local shell.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ThomasOwens 'Chelle is a Taco 'Chelle?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
It supports bash or Windows cmd.
 
André
André
cool
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ThomasOwens dependencies? cygwin? minsys?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
The installer includes everything.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
1:39 PM
w-t-f oracle wants me to create an account just to download JDK 1.6?
@ThomasOwens cygwin? minsys?
(I hate cygwin...minsys is actually just fine though)
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
It uses cygwin for porting utilities to Windows, MinTTY for the native Windows terminal, TurboVNC and TightVNC, Busybox, and UPX.
But it includes the cygwin files it needs as part of its install.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
ok
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
I didn't need to install or configure cygwin on my own.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
I just don't like cygwin conceptually more than anything, their approach is way too invasive; minsys isn't
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Oh. You can detach the sftp pane from following the terminal folder and use it to copy file paths.
This is the best thing ever.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
1:44 PM
gods damnit, oracle can't even write functioning javascript... they just crashed the tab I opened to create an account so I could get java
 
durron597
durron597
@ThomasOwens What do you think about migrating this to security.SE?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@durron597 How is it off-topic for us?
If it's not off-topic for us, there's no need to migrate unless the OP asks for it and it's a legitimate migration.
 
durron597
durron597
@ThomasOwens It has two CVs, one as unclear, one as too broad.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Neither of those are off-topic.
If it's unclear or too broad for us, why should we migrate it? Rule number 1 of migration: don't migrate crap.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ThomasOwens rule number 2 of migration: RUN!
 
durron597
durron597
1:49 PM
You're right, I'm only thinking about it because it came up in the CV queue. Reviewed as "leave open"
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
So, MobaXterm guys,
You just don't know how happy this app makes me.
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
careful or you might get flagged for advertising
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
I'll dismiss them all with a passion.
 
durron597
durron597
@ratchetfreak Just like @MichaelT IDEA flags get dismissed, too.
 
user55340
2:20 PM
@JimmyHoffa migration = run south in winter and north in summer?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
0
Q: How do we control which features get released?

canisrufusI'm working in an environment where we regularly start working on a feature and then are directed not to release it. We then create other features that we do want to release. My typical workflow is write feature -> commit to default. This workflow has worked well historically but in this envir...

version-control issue-tracking
I think my comment is almost the right answer. Why would you ever commit to a release branch if you aren't committing to releasing that feature or bug fix. Should I expand on it?
 
user55340
It's the right answer. Answer it. Mention branches and future release branches.
 
user55340
There is nothing wrong with merging the code into 3.0 branch if you intend to release it as such - while still at 1.0 with the next target as 2.0.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
I've never thought about future release branches before.
 
user55340
When 3.0 becomes the next target, that gets merged to the next target / release branch. When it gets released, next target merges to trunk / master and a new next target is branched.
 
user55340
2:27 PM
Be careful to avoid the cascade branching structure where it never merges to trunk or master.
 
user55340
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
@MichaelT You mean avoid that the trunk stays at 0.0.0.0.1 with just a readme while branches get released
 
user55340
>
Organizations are commonly tempted to try the promotion model for very logical reasons. It is valid to think that future versions are built upon past versions. However, it is illogical to presume that one should reflect the dependency between successive versions with piggybacked branches. The fallacy of this logic is subtle and easy to overlook; logical and physical representations of a system rarely reflect each other precisely.
 
user55340
Yep. Don't do that.
 
user55340
>

Two of the primary deficiencies in the promotion model are the continually escalating complexity of merge policy and the lack of a rendezvous codeline for multiple paths of derivative development. In addition to making the management of a larger release environment more difficult, this further complicates the kinds of development discussed below, particularly distributed development.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
2:30 PM
We use the promotion model because we only support one version of our software at a time.
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
in other words with future release branches merge to the downstream often
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Once 3.6.1 is out, for example. The next release will either be 3.6.2 (bug fixes), 3.7.0 (enhancements, perhaps with bug fixes), or 4.0.0 (architectural or breaking interface changes).
 
user55340
read that paper and reconsider.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
We're migrating away from ClearCase in the next year. So I'll save it and read it soon.
Yeah, we aren't using a promotion model.
Everything has a single main and gets merged in. Some prototype releases may not get merged back in if they aren't accepted, though.
There may be a huge breaking prototype or proof of concept that kind of hangs out on a branch. But everything else gets merged to a release branch.
 
user55340
@ThomasOwens employer^^^ had a team using the promotion model. Their branches were a mess. It took weeks to fix (merge and cherry pick and resolve conflicts) once they hit a point of not being able to do work because of the broken builds.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
2:45 PM
@MichaelT my ant javac task has source=1.6, my java_home and path both indicate 1.8, I have 1.6, 1.7, and 1.8 JDKs installed. Does the 1.8 bootclasspath rt.jar file change statically linked code in the output jar, or just make the 1.8 method calls dynamically available to the 1.6 code?
 
durron597
durron597
-17
Q: Why SO is so disgusting?

Your Common SensePHP 5.6, MySQL, SSL and self-signed certificates Why these people always ready to answer 1000000th stupid question on silly syntax error but close, due to formal reason, a really useful post they can't even understand? Why these people tell the OP to add an answer and at the same time take away...

discussion
^^^ Trainwreck alert
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa it compiles to the 1.6 api and jvm specs. It should error if using 1.8 method calls at compile time.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@JimmyHoffa Does your ant task also have target="1.6"?
I think you need source="1.6" and target="1.6".
 
André
André
you need to indicate the target jvm level too. @ThomasOwens is right @JimmyHoffa
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Otherwise, I think it just makes sure that your compatible at a source level with 1.6, but your binaries are still tagged as being for 1.8. And when you go to run, it'll be all version mismatch.
 
user55340
2:51 PM
(This is why I like maven - keeping build and development environment in sync)
 
André
André
@ThomasOwens nods
 
user55340
3:03 PM
0
Q: Do I want an index if all I care to query is field "not null"

ecoologicIn SQL, do all the common considerations about indexes apply if everything I'll ever want to query is if a field is "not null"? Is there a special configuration of the index I can apply to cover this specific case? Eg: select id from Accesses where token is null; Is it worth to add the index...

performance sql
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
you're all just saying these mean things
 
user55340
Dba migration?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
ah yeah target also
so what the hell is the bootclasspath indicating?
(or not, since it's omitted)
if it uses 1.8's bootclasspath will it actually grab any of the code from the 1.8 rt.jar and stuff it into the resultant jar?
 
user55340
Cross compile.
 
André
André
When you specify the target to 1.6 and you have the 1.8 jars, the javac compiles the .class to a JVM compatible with 1.6. There is some version information in the .class file.
 
user55340
3:07 PM
For a different jvm than the one javac runs in.
 
André
André
There is some gotchas in this process if you have a source level higher than the target, but usually works okay
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@André source and target are both 1.6, but the javac is 1.8 and the bootclasspath is omitted...
presuming the resultant jar will be wholesale fine in a 1.6-only environment
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
It should be fine if you do that. I omit the bootclasspath all the time.
 
user55340
Think more "running this on a Java on a chip environment " rather than hotspot.
 
André
André
I don't fiddle with the javac so I'm not familiar with the bootclasspath
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
3:10 PM
I just finished some tasks at work and it's 20 minutes to lunch time.
I don't want to start my next stuff. :\
Anyway, you do have a Java 1.6 environment somewhere, right?
You need one to test in, especially if you have performance requirements or use some of the included libraries. Things like JAXB (from personal experience) have been updated and changed between 1.6 and 1.8, so you can expect some behavior differences. They shouldn't matter in 80% of the cases, though.
 
user55340
Ug. I recall that jaxb change. Broke things at employer^ painfully.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Ours was stupid.
One of the applications doesn't use a real XML parser. The change was an underlying change to the data structure used to hold attributes of an element. It changed from one that maintained attributes in insertion order to one that sorted them based on attribute name. Unfortunately, an application expected the attributes in a specific order. We're still using an old version of JAXB to work around this until the other application is fixed or replaced.
What broke in JAXB for you?
 
user55340
Annotations not present on generated classes in run environment.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
That seems very problematic.
I still don't like how they haven't added a human-readable toString, equals, or hashCode to JAXB.
 
user55340
Dev updated jdk. Ran jaxb. New classes generated. Big mess.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
3:21 PM
I need to use JAXB Basics to do simple things.
JAXB, out of the box, should provide equals, hash code, to string, and clone.
JAXB Basics also provides a real setters for collections. I'm not using that plugin, though. I had already written a bunch of code that used the standard calls.
 
psr
psr
@JimmyHoffa I'm in the process of rewriting a data entry page of our application that has tons of business logic, lots of configurability, and can include up 1o 1000 questions - which they want without paging or scrolling. So far the initial rendering is much faster but it's looking like I may need to re-write the default behavior of diffing the entire virtual DOM against the old version each rendering pass, and mark sub-sections dirty instead.
Hasn't been bad to work with so far and rewriting bits of it seems feasible in a way it wouldn't be with a monster like Angular.
@MichaelT Sports and financial reporting may actually be improved.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@psr very cool
 
psr
psr
3:40 PM
@MichaelT @gnat has already been programmed to communicate via YouTube music clips and close votes in a way indistinguishable from a human.
2
 
user55340
@psr more coverage for small things.
 
durron597
durron597
4:04 PM
I'm trying to decide if I should propose a char to character synonym on SO. You guys r purty smrt so I was wondering if you had thoughts
Before I take it to MSO
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
4:19 PM
@durron597 they are dupes IMO
just look at the exerpt
 
gnat
gnat
@psr "indistinguishable from a human" wasn't intended, it's an implementation bug
 
durron597
durron597
@ratchetfreak Which direction would you do the synonym?
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
good question...
char is the keyword most would recognize but character is what it's about
how is int handled?
huh? also not a synonym of each other?
if you want precedent there is bool -> boolean
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
char -> character
To me, "char" is a specific data type to represent characters.
Not all languages use this data type, but I may be more generally interested in working with characters. It's something that binds questions together.
 
user55340
4:36 PM
10k fun - look at bounties now owned by community.
 
user55340
Both for pink background and some which should go away.
 
user55340
14
Q: Help me catch up on what I've missed since Java 1.4.2

DGHI am about to start my first professional career position as a software developer, and I'm likely going to be writing a lot of Java code. I don't know that much about what specifically I'll be writing, and besides, I have fairly broad interests when it comes to code anyway. For reasons not wort...

java language-features
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
All the bounties owned by community have been awarded.
 
user55340
Yep. Deleted users. Things of nostalgia and some pink "those were different days"
 
durron597
durron597
"My theory is based on the observation that the higher the reputation the less helpful and more pedantic the person." I guess that must mean I've never helped anyone. I do close a lot of bad questions, but that doesn't mean I don't help out on good questions. And yes, you need to put some effort into writing a good question, and you should do research before asking. (SO isn't a substitute for trying to do your work yourself.) — Jon Skeet 5 mins ago
 
Ampt
Ampt
4:44 PM
Happy Coffee Day Progs!
 
durron597
durron597
yesterday, by Ampt
@JimmyHoffa every day is coffee day
Though I guess I shouldn't give you a hard time for wanting to celebrate it :)
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Happy birthday, Optimus Prime!
 
Duga
Duga
How about moving it to Programmers? — Paulo Madeira 59 secs ago
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
#PrimeDay
 
Ampt
Ampt
#InAnotherUselessMeeting
"User centered design is a real thing! Seriously, it's a real thing. We promise. There's even this ISO about it! Look at how real it is!"
 
Duga
Duga
4:52 PM
@ThomasOwens, I beg to differ. As seen clearly on SO's help site and Programmers help site, it's the other way around. This question seems to fall right into Programmer's topic: software architecture and design. — Paulo Madeira 50 secs ago
@PauloMadeira I didn't say it was off-topic. I said it was too broad. To me, it reads like a discussion starter, rather than a question about understanding a concept or solving a problem. Since I'm a moderator on Programmers, I think I have a pretty good idea about what would be closed if posted there. — Thomas Owens 28 secs ago
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Ampt replacement keurig arrived yesterday since mine went kaput recently. Finally had a nice cup made at home before work again today.
 
durron597
durron597
@ThomasOwens Ughhhh the sales are so crappy
 
gnat
gnat
5:55 PM
hot questions now advertise blatant cross-posts, nice...
both are in hot-questions indeed. EL&U (one with 20+ answers) currently at #26, ELL (with 10+ answers) at #61 in the list — gnat 16 mins ago
 
durron597
durron597
I smell an MSE post in your future
Let me know and I'll upvote it
 
gnat
gnat
@durron597 unlikely. I am close to completion of my crusade over there, just one more bounty left to go and I'm done. Enough people are educated of nuts and bolts, if they find a need to get further, they can take it from where I finished. (similarly to how I took that topic from MadScientist back then)
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@gnat What's the big problem with cross-posting? I think the bigger problem is that there are two English language sites and I couldn't explain to someone which one they should post on, since segregation by experience level isn't a good idea.
Cross-posting crap is abusive. I fail to see how posting a question on n sites where it's on-topic for all sites and otherwise meets the criteria for a good question is an issue.
 
gnat
gnat
@ThomasOwens no big problem really, besides that it just smells bad. Tell people outside of SE network that two identical questions are advertized as different and they will laugh at you. Outside of SE, nobody gives a sh!t about tiny puny differences between ELL and ELU
...that's about how they introduced shuffling. People were simply laughing at Atwood when a bland PHP question stuck at top of hot list for almost a week. No big deal, it just smells bad
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
The bigger problem is that there are multiple sites in the network with such extreme overlap. In most cases, a question should fit squarely onto one site. I'm very much opposed to segregating by experience level, like Theoretical CS / Computer Science, Mathematics / MathOverflow, and ELL / ELU.
I think it takes experts away from sites where they could be useful to the people who need help and makes it harder to find the site to post on.
 
whatsisname
whatsisname
6:06 PM
agreed
 
user55340
El* split because of very different audiences.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
The problem shouldn't be solved with new sites, but better ability to find questions to answer. Better following of specific tags, better notification of new tags, better presentation of questions that I may be able to answer based on my past questions and answers.
@MichaelT I think that's silly. The content of questions is roughly the same.
Some are more nuanced than others, but it's like that on every site.
 
user55340
The answers proto ell got on elu were not appropriate for the person asking who didn't know what a gerund was.
 
durron597
durron597
@gnat You've offered 24,400 rep in MSE bounties???
geez can I have some?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@MichaelT That seems to be a matter of people not targeting their answer to the right audience.
On Programmers, I write my answers differently based on how the question is asked and what I think the asker knows.
Everyone should really be expected to do that. At the end, it will show up in the accepted answer - who can best help the asker.
 
user55340
6:13 PM
The thing is we have a continuum of experience. Elu had two distinct groups.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Where are the true experts, though? How many English language experts from ELU are on ELL?
 
user55340
This was to the point of the people answering one group didn't want to see the questions of the other. Sure a meta tag would work...
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
I say tough to them.
I don't want to see half the questions on Stack Overflow and would have a better experience without them.
But you don't see them fragmenting SO by language.
 
user55340
Consider merging so and pse. How hard would it be to find the architect questions. Can't? Tough.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
That's a distinct difference in topicality, though.
English language questions are English language questions.
Math questions are math questions.
Computer science questions are computer science questions.
 
user55340
6:17 PM
It's a matter of making it easy for people to find questions they want to answer.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
No. It's a matter of framing it to make it easy for people to find answers to the questions they have.
Then, you make tools on top of that to make it easier for the experts to find questions within their scope of knowledge.
 
gnat
gnat
"Oops I did it again occupied positions #26 and #61 in our charts, ain't it c00l"
@durron597 MSE rep turned way too easy to get :)
 
durron597
durron597
I just want 3k there, which you seem determined to give away to get below
 
user55340
3k on MSE is boring.
 
gnat
gnat
@durron597 if I get below 3K, it ain't going to be for long. BTDT, my MSE rep regenerates quite quickly
was only uncomfortable when I once dropped under 2K and lost editing privilege. Didn't last long though
 
durron597
durron597
6:23 PM
Well I really want 10k but I'm too lazy to actually answer stuff.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Recruiters are getting lazy:
> Thank you for taking the time to read this. Currently I am looking for a Senior Software Engineer in Waltham, Massachusetts. If you or anyone you know has interest kindly contact me on my direct line or email me. Have a great day!
The rest is a one line salutation and then a signature block.
There are punctuation errors in the message, no information about the company or the job, and he wants me to put others in touch with him (meaning do his job)?
WTF. Seriously. WTF.
 
user55340
The ones who respond are more desperate and have lower salary expectations.
 
user55340
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
> Sorry, this page is temporarily unavailable for technical reasons.
Never mind. Works now.
 
user55340
6:39 PM
Had that glitch too. Wasn't just you.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
7:03 PM
....mobaXterm was left idle in background for an hour or so, I go back to it and find little penguins floating down the screen, some jackhammering through the text to create holes, others with little propellers...
@ThomasOwens what have you done to my SSH?
It's still not altogether clear to me, what purpose the built in x server has, or what it's functionally doing...
 
user55340
X over ssh isn't uncommon. Especially for graphical admin tools sometimes needed.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@MichaelT but what is it ?
I mean...what is that thing doing?
 
user55340
Screen saver?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
am I hosting an x server locally in moba x term? What would connect to it? Am I hosting a client?
 
user55340
You are hosting a display possibly. Check the display environment variable on the ssh system.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
7:08 PM
"Terminal with built in x server" is just vague to me because I've never heard of such - it's not clear if it's running an x server remotely, or locally, connecting to one or accepting connections or ... and the why/how of it.. explain?
@MichaelT no display anything variable
 
user55340
I used such in days of old - spim was gui. I needed to run it remotely. Log in, set display to my machine. Launch and see the windo on my machine.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
is it a feature that's specifically for scenarios where I'm connected to a UI capable host as opposed to a CLI-only server?
 
user55340
It allows you to run a gui app on a headless or remote machine.
 
user55340
Think of it like Citrix.
 
user55340
But for just one window rather than entire desktop.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
7:11 PM
ohhh you know, that kind of makes sense, so if the x server is hosted in the terminal, and connections come in to modify it - the UI will display on my local? I always think of the idea of X server to bring a remote UI local, rather than for a host to have UI projected into it
 
user55340
X Window System
The X Window System (X11, X, and sometimes informally X-Windows) is a windowing system for bitmap displays, common on UNIX-like computer operating systems. X provides the basic framework for a GUI environment: drawing and moving windows on the display device and interacting with a mouse and keyboard. X does not mandate the user interface — this is handled by individual programs. As such, the visual styling of X-based environments varies greatly; different programs may present radically different interfaces. X originated at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) in 1984. The protocol version...
 
user55340
Look at the architected diagram in that article.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
right; I get it confused with VNC perhaps
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Oh. Turn off a setting.
 
user55340
NEC even used to make thin xservers as a machine with network boot and no HD.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
7:17 PM
That's Tux Consolesaver.
 
user55340
(Had those at a university department I was a student sysadmin in)
 
Duga
Duga
This question would be better suited for Programmers. — Brian 6 secs ago
 
user55340
Ug.
 
user55340
-6
Q: How to become a hobbyist programmer?

EricI just finished up a class on programming for engineers and loved it. I want to start programming games as a hobby. I've done some research, and it seems that Java is the best language for this purpose. Is that correct? Also, does anyone have an opinion on the merits of taking classes vs self-te...

java 2d-games
 
durron597
durron597
@MichaelT Eh? That's deleted
 
user55340
7:20 PM
Be prepared to see it here then.
 
user55340
That was the duga post.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
But how are you liking MobaXterm so far?
 
9000
9000
What's a 'duga post'? BTW I wish someone gave that would-be hobbyist a few helpful links before closing the question.
 
durron597
durron597
14 mins ago, by Duga
This question would be better suited for Programmers. — Brian 6 secs ago
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
> 1. Find another hobbyist programmer 2. Stab other hobbyist programmer 3. Eat other hobbyist programmer 4. Subsume other hobbyist programmers life
 
9000
9000
7:34 PM
Thanks. I suppose that question is going to get a bunch of downvotes here too, as 'primarily opinion-based'. What would be the right forum to direct such people to, with their open-ended questions?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@9000 reddit
 
9000
9000
Ah, well, yes :)
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
The /r/programmers subreddit really has a ton of very experienced and skilled coders discussing shit constantly. For folks who want to learn through discourse with experienced engineers that's probably their best bet
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@9000 chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/21/the-whiteboard
 
Ampt
Ampt
Aka Here!
 
user55340
7:53 PM
@9000 duga is a bot that monitors SO comments for certain key words pertaining to P.SE or CodeReview and posts to the chat room.
 
user55340
Many times it helps us avoid a bad migration.
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
8:20 PM
and educate people that still believe progs is SO's toilet bowl
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
 
durron597
durron597
@ThomasOwens downvoted
 
André
André
I think rackspace control panel had feature flags for the development process, thoughtworks developed the control panel.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@durron597 I'm not going to down vote it. It's not "not useful".
@André It's so annoying to manage code like that, though.
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
I can think of a few projects that use feature flags but mostly because compat or legacy reasons
 
André
André
8:24 PM
they had a agile process with CI with the staging and test-production server, it was pretty neat. I saw a tech talk about it from one of the dev's responsible for it.
He didn't mentioned how.. hard was to manage it
they probably had integration tests to test the feature flags itself
such overhead, but they had 10-25 deploys per day
 
Duga
Duga
Possibly something for SE: programmers. — Pixelchemist 33 secs ago
 
durron597
durron597
My own CV expired away somehow grr
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
#SilverReviewerBadge
 
durron597
durron597
8:41 PM
@ThomasOwens Sweet I love when mods go through the CV queue
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
If you guys keep the mod flags low, I have more time to do that.
 
durron597
durron597
8:55 PM
6
Q: Allow tag wiki to be referenced in duplicate close vote

Chris BakerSeveral tags, namely PHP and javascript, have extensive tag wiki entries, complete with FAQ answers and links to relevant documentation. If a user asks a question that has been addressed many, many times, we can choose to close it and link some other question as the duplicate. Sometimes, however...

feature-request
Oh man that would be great.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Tag wikis need major love from SE.
Like, yesterday.
Anyway, I'm out.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
9:37 PM
@ratchetfreak same here, there's a certain portion of the codebase where I work where we always use feature toggles and I've had a positive experience with them, but it's obvious we're only using them there because it's such a ginormous legacy code blob that backing out the entire thing is disruptive for the entire company
 
durron597
durron597
	private void takeProfit() throws OrderException {
		for(LevelContainer l : levels) {
			l.takeProfit();
		}
	}

	public void cancelEntries() throws OrderException {
		for(LevelContainer l : levels) {
			l.cancelEntry();
		}
	}

	public void cancelEntriesAndExits() throws OrderException {
		for(LevelContainer l : levels) {
			l.cancelEntryAndExit();
		}
	}

	public void handleEntry() throws OrderException {
		for(LevelContainer l : levels) {
			l.quote();
		}
	}
I'm a bad programmer.
there's got to be a better way to do it than that.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
I'm tempted to suggest a Javascript-y way of dynamically building a class out of a list of method names, but that's probably not what you want
 
durron597
durron597
Anything that uses something approaching reflection is not "better way than that"
@Ixrec Do you think this would be a "main" appropriate question
My problem is "I have all this nearly duplicated boilerplate code"
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
if that's not a good Programmers question, I don't know what is
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
no it's a codereview question
 
gnat
gnat
9:56 PM
@ThomasOwens I recall 2 or 3 times when feature toggles were useful in projects I used to work in. Not exactly as answer describes - features were complete and fully tested, and there were no ugly checks - but "toggle features after installation" was there and was helpful (we integrated with up/downstream systems that had their own upgrade schedules). These feature toggles were very expensive and we fallen back to them only because we'd lose even more if we didn't
feels funny to get a Mortarboard... at MSO. "Earn at least 200 reputation" - really?
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
where I work we also have a kind of feature toggle specifically intended for the business people to flip, because they often want to visit clients or recruit beta testers and other stuff as part of a very slow controlled rollout
 
 
1 hour later…
psr
psr
11:06 PM
@durron597 Have a function that loops through the level containers and takes a lambda? Though I imagine given your speed requirements that probably won't fly.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
11:44 PM
@ThomasOwens ? why?
@psr why would that be slower than what he's doing?
you know full well lambas aren't dynamic, and their dispatch is just the same as any polymorphic dispatch
 
psr
psr
@JimmyHoffa It might not.
@JimmyHoffa Java
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
Java or not, an implemented IExecutable for a strategy pattern would be identical, and though he's not in 1.8 (no one is, if they could upgrade they wouldn't be writing Java), a lambda is compiled to a real class that's dispatched in the same fashion as a hand-spun strategy pattern
@durron597 there is, want to know it? All you have to do is say "JavaScript is actually pretty good!" just once, and I'll show you how to get rid of your boilerplate on that
ahh I entertain me
 
psr
psr
@JimmyHoffa A typeclass?
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
handleLambda(Function<LevelContainer, Void> foo){
    for(LevelContainer l : levels)
        foo(l);
}
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ratchetfreak is that available before 1.8?
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
11:50 PM
it requires lambdas
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
aye
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
though the rest becomes 
public void cancelEntriesAndExits() throws OrderException {
    handleLambda(LevelContainer::.cancelEntryAndExit);
}
or really levels.stream().forEach(LevelContainer::.cancelEntryAndExit);
and no need for the handleLambda
 

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