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00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

7:09 PM
Yeah windows has an encryption store (maybe server only)
 
Eclipse use the SO encryption store on windows, so I assume it also works on standard version
 
user114359
I stayed up all night thinking of a way to describe my latest computer problem:
 
user114359
0
Q: Loud optical drive

SnowmanAt times, the Blu-ray drive in my computer will be very loud: it makes a grinding noise that I suspect is the drive motor. This is the computer equivalent of the sound a Honda Civic makes with an oversized tailpipe. This loud noise only occurs while reading discs, not writing. Sometimes it will...

 
user114359
I give you... the riceburner comparison!
 
Probably more appropriate for programmers.stackexchange.comJason Watkins 42 secs ago
This would be too broad for Programmers.SE: please read Where to start?Snowman 10 secs ago
 
7:21 PM
two bluray drives in one computer sounds... sketchy :)
 
user114359
@enderland Two BD-Rs, one in each of two computers.
 
oh. ha
 
user114359
Besides, I make enough money that I don't need to engage in any of those "sketchy" behaviors.
 
user114359
;-)
 
user114359
I came across this blog post: The Failure of Agile written by one of the authors of the Agile Manifesto. Interesting ideas: most organizations don't get Agile right (hammer, meet nail head); and software is grown, not built (which is what the Agile Manifesto basically says in a roundabout way).
 
7:35 PM
1
Q: C++ - why does the main function use 'char *argv[]'?

InputUsernameI was wondering why C++ uses the following function prototype for the main() function: int main(int argc, char *argv[]); instead of something like: int main(std::vector<std::string> argv); What's the reasoning behind using the first? Why not just go with the (much more modern) version using...

Seriously? Close votes? You can't vote to close as a duplicate of a question on a different site, and it's a design question, which makes it on-topic for Programmers.
I totally don't get the flags and votes being raised on this one at all.
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens The premise behind that question is painful
 
user41796
> Why not just go with the (much more modern) version using vectors and strings?
 
user41796
I fully agree with you regarding not closing as dupe of a Q on SO though
 
Allow me to do the correct thing here.
 
user55340
Copy the best so answer as committed wiki because the current one is... Poor?
 
user114359
7:38 PM
I think the cross-posting guidance is relevant here: answer fragmentation.
 
user55340
... And the delete the poor one, stick a mod notice about the comprehensive one on so, and lock it?
 
user114359
If the question is going to stay open then @MichaelT has the right idea
 
0
Q: Tornado Framework's Design Pattern

ThiagoI'm working on a article about design patterns for web applications that demand high load and performance. I'm basically trying to compare an event-based web aplication to it's correspondent multi-thread/multi-process version of the same web application made by me. I'm using Python with Tornado t...

 
Now, someone up votes my Community Wiki answer so it gets marked as answered and we're done.
@ChrisF >_<
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens Um, I can't seem to up vote your answer.... Something seems wrong....
 
7:44 PM
Yeah...one sec.
 
user55340
To the blue room!(?)
 
Problem solves.
 
user55340
One more down vote on the other answer and we can get 20k delete voted on it...
 
user41796
Would be kinder to just convert it to a comment
 
And then nuke the comment?
 
7:48 PM
What are you guys trying to do? Aren't you a mod? Don't you have absolute power?
 
Not a fit for SO, but might work on programmers.stackexchange.comj08691 10 secs ago
 
@RobertHarvey We just fixed the question.
1
Q: In C++, why does the main function use 'char *argv[]'?

InputUsernameI was wondering why C++ uses the following function prototype for the main() function: int main(int argc, char *argv[]); instead of something like: int main(std::vector<std::string> argv); What's the reasoning behind using the first? Why not just go with the (much more modern) version using...

 
@j08691 this question would be closed on Programmers for the same reason it was closed here. — Snowman 40 secs ago
 
user55340
Note that cmaster is a new user. We want to provide some pointers (beyond votes) about the expectations of answer quality.
 
user114359
@cmaster ping!
 
7:52 PM
I think now the question is in the intended state.
With the right comments and answers and stuff.
Did I miss anything?
 
user41796
@Snowman Pretty certain that won't ping them.
 
user55340
It is in a reasonable state.
 
user114359
@GlenH7 ah, don't they need a chat account linked?
 
I do wish linking to questions across sites was better.
 
user41796
@Snowman yes
 
7:53 PM
But wasn't it in here that we agreed a CW answer with pointers was the best?
 
user41796
or a blue name to super-ping them
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens it's a reasonable approach
 
Do today's developers only have the ability to speak in GOF patterns?
 
@RobertHarvey Maybe.
 
superping doesn't work for someone without 20 rep though, afaik
unless you specifically invite them to a chat room
 
user55340
7:54 PM
@RobertHarvey college is an Abstract Developer Factory now.
 
When I TA'd the object oriented design course, the book was the GoF book. But I tried to get people to just think about good designs.
 
user55340
@enderland the user is an 11k on SO.
 
I don't really care about patterns. I just want to see a reasonable, implementable, testable design.
 
user114359
I actually just reread the GoF book with an eye toward "how has this aged 20 years later?"
 
user55340
@ThomasOwens ever read the book that inspired it?
 
7:55 PM
@MichaelT The architecture book about cities and buildings? No.
 
user55340
I recommend it. Third link in my profile.
 
user114359
To sum it up in one idea: the GoF patterns are quite relevant today, but most of them are buried in frameworks and APIs that already implement them. Focusing on "design patterns" is almost counterproductive in my opinion.
 
@MichaelT .... well that's definitely enough
 
user55340
GoF, I feel set forth too rigid of a structure with the language and examples in the book.
 
GOF pattern: "My braindead language won't do this thing that I can do readily in a more expressive language, so here's a workaround."
 
7:57 PM
Just added it to my amazon Wishlist. I wonder...if I put my Amazon Wishlist in my profile, do you think anyone would buy me books randomly?
 
user55340
It made them look like building blocks rather than organic solutions.
 
user55340
@ThomasOwens who knows. One way to find it out.
 
@RobertHarvey A friend of my describes it that way, too.
Anyway, I'm out. Good night, all.
 
Isn't that stack overflow? — Meitar 5 mins ago
wow. Just... wow
 
user114359
I think the GoF book is valuable though, it pointed out the fact that the languages and technologies of the 90s were inadequate to express our designs without a lot of extra work.
 
user55340
8:02 PM
They still are... Just that work is in frameworks that are easily accessible on ways they weren't in the late 80s and for another decade or so.
 
user114359
@MichaelT Which sums up my previous post :-)
 
we used the head first book...
i dont know how i feel about them
 
8:28 PM
You can feel just fine about them, so long as you don't start parading them around like they're gold coins.
Software patterns are tools, just like any other tool. You don't ask "Which tools should I use to fix this roof?" Because if you have to ask that question, you don't know enough to fix the roof.
5
Egad, I finally found an adequate way to express my cognitive dissonance about them.
 
user41796
Yeah, that's a pretty good metaphor
 
I think I finally understand why C++ exists. It's all about "You don't pay for what you don't use." That explains all of its inherent complexity.
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey That's a fairly accurate statement regarding C++
 
user41796
And C for that matter
 
hey cool about to repcap here
 
user41796
8:35 PM
Some of the zealots will argue about whether foo belongs in a particular standard library or not, and will go so far as to roll their own version of the standard library. But the premise behind your statement is correct.
 
Like it says in GoF (good if highly, highly overrated book), design patterns are communication tools, not recipes.
@GlenH7 The "D" problem
 
user41796
C and C++ came out of times when every single resource mattered. And bloat was to be avoided like the plague
 
I think that, if I started with C (which I consider more or less smart assembly language), added classes to it, and continued improving it with the singular focus of not paying for what you don't use, I think I would wind up with a similar language to C++, minus the templates perhaps.
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey Yep, pretty much
 
@GlenH7 technically resources matter still, just a lot cheaper to scale up to make the language choice less relevant
 
user41796
8:36 PM
@enderland correct
 
user41796
The fundamental prism has shifted.
 
I'm curious if/when it'll shift back
 
user41796
Previously, equipment resources were the constraining factor. Programmer time was effectively infinite. Now that's reversed.
 
one of these days, I'm gonna try for a C with prototypes
just to see what happens
 
@WorldEngineer Javascript?
 
user41796
8:38 PM
@enderland I don't know that it ever will. I don't see that as a cycle - just an evolutionary shift.
 
@RobertHarvey kinda?
Javascript looks nothing like C under the hood
 
True that.
 
user41796
<rant> what an afternoon for endless crap questions on the main site. </rant>
 
So C with prototypes. Sounds cool.
Although, I think you can sorta do that already with ordinary functions, and perhaps structs. Not sure how closures would work though.
 
@RobertHarvey not a clue
it's more a thought experiment than anything else. C++ = C with simula style classes, Objective C = C with Smalltalk style classes/objects
totally separate note, the other day I realized that Shaman in WoW are basically that game's bards.
I then realized that I am a god-tier nerd
and humble too :P
 
user41796
8:43 PM
@WorldEngineer exceptionally so
 
im feeling pretty BOBed right now
I think ill start using that as a feeling
 
user114359
Could we remove the downvotes and close votes from this?
 
user114359
0
Q: In C++, why does the main function use 'char *argv[]'?

InputUsernameI was wondering why C++ uses the following function prototype for the main() function: int main(int argc, char *argv[]); instead of something like: int main(std::vector<std::string> argv); What's the reasoning behind using the first? Why not just go with the (much more modern) version using...

 
@Snowman close votes I can remove by closing and reopening. I can't do jack about up/downvotes
 
8:50 PM
@Snowman Well one minus became a plus.
 
user114359
@WorldEngineer I was hoping the people who cast votes would retract them
 
user114359
And with CVs it will end up in the queue, and someone might create more work for @ThomasOwens to undo... again.
 
user114359
@JoeP I am still trying to figure out that question: was the asker referring to Microsoft Bob?
 
@Snowman BoB could be "Band of Brothers" from EVE but they've not been around in nearly a decade.
 
@RobertHarvey Hope you don't mind me linking to this post in my profile. You're in good company with Eric Lippert!
 
user41796
8:52 PM
@WorldEngineer I think it would be appropriate to roll off the close votes on the question. Thomas did some finagling with the question to make it workable.
 
@GlenH7 way ahead of you :)
 
user41796
roll off == close & reopen
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer I blame caching
 
@WorldEngineer are you able to see who close voted a question prior to closure?
Actually I guess any blue name could answer that q
 
yes
though I have never once looked at that unltil just now
 
8:55 PM
@enderland is that a new feature?
 
@WorldEngineer goto the timeline
20
Q: Having trouble working with a programming buddy, do I just let poor design choices go, or keep endlessly fighting over it?

douglasg14bI've found myself in a tough spot as of late. Been working on a game with a programming buddy for nearly 8 months now. We both started off as newcomers to programming around August of last year, he is a 2nd year CS student, I'm an IT support tech by trade and am a self-taught programmer with mult...

I made a pretty significant edit to this to bring it back on scope here
 
@Snowman I honestly have no idea.
 
user114359
@enderland +20 and on hold. Eh?
 
but being BOBed just sounds like a depressing state... 'man,, i got laid of today and Im just so BOBed'
 
user114359
8:57 PM
Also, Office Space. Man, I got Bobbed today... the Bobs laid me off!
 
@Snowman that one still feels like it'd be a good question over on The Workplace, not sure if we should try to move it there or not...
 
@MetaFight Link away.
 
@Snowman it seems like a good question with a bit of scope, basically, "when is a project/software team a lost cause?"
 
user114359
@Ixrec That would be for @enderland to decide: @WorldEngineer could migrate there if they agree.
 
true
 
user114359
8:58 PM
But from what I remember I think it was too software-specific
 
user114359
I don't feel like reading that wall of text again.
 
it was pretty software-specific
I guess that answers my question of where do you ask the programming-specific "Workplace-style" questions
 
@enderland I don't see close votes in the timeline. Is that diamond only? Do you see close votes in this timeline @enderland ?
 
@durron597 mods have a lot more fancy timeline
 
user114359
@Ixrec Back when there were two or three SE sites it was pretty easy to know where to ask stuff. There are quite a few gray areas and overlaps now.
 
9:01 PM
@Ixrec some of those can be on topic here, as long as they are very scoped to software dev related issues (not "I'm a software dev with a workplace issue" but more "I've a software dev specific issue")
 
user114359
That makes it even more important to check around when asking a question that could possibly be on-topic in more than one place
 
too bad we can't agree on whether it's too opinion-based or not
I'm tempted to reopen-vote but I can't really deny that it's attracting the answer-spam typical of an opinion poll
 
@enderland Next time you make a significant edit like that, can you remove tags like too please? ;)
 
I ALWAYS forget tags when I do those sorts of edits
is that pretty on topic here now? I'm not sure what your line is for that sort of thing
 
user114359
Now that I can edit tags inline I always forget when editing the subject/body
 
9:03 PM
@Snowman +1
 
#hax
 
@enderland If you have any left you can nominate for reopening zee old fashioned way
 
@durron597 I don't have 3k rep...
 
@enderland Ah right crap. I keep waiting for you to post more answers so I can upvote them.
 
okay I reopen voted
 
user114359
9:05 PM
I think that question is technically on-topic, but validly closed as opinion-based even with the edit. I think it is a perfect example of How do I explain ${something} to ${someone}?
 
user55340
Proposal: mod association bonus gives +3k rep on all sites. (No not serious)
 
I thought the crux of the question was whether to keep working with this person, not how to explain things to them (the OP is convinced he cannot be explained to)
I guess this means it needs further editing to clarify what the main point is
 
@Snowman we've had really good success turning "what do I do?" questions to "what factors should I use to make this decisino?"
 
@enderland now you only have to vote down / flag all the answers invalidated by the edit, possibly along with all bikeshed answers it attracted at all
 
I clarified this some in hopes to make it more on-topic - if this changed your intent too much feel free to edit it and clarify. I'm trying to make it less "tell me what to do?" and more "what factors can I use to decide this?" which is more easily answerable in a Q/A format. — enderland 5 secs ago
 
9:10 PM
community protection could be there already if it wasn't so friggin' insenstitive to upvotes from hot list lemmings...
1
A: How many questions escape community protection because of reputation gained within checked question?

gnatObserving for last 5-6 months how protection works (or more precisely fails to work) leaves me quite disappointed. Unless stats show that my observations somehow miss the big picture, I would say that it is probably broken, at least at the sites I am active at (Programmers and Workplace). As an ...

 
Korpiklaani (Finnish Folk Metal) released their newest album like a week ago
Sahti for reference is home-brewed beer
Sahti is a traditional beer from Finland made from a variety of grains, malted and unmalted, including barley, rye, wheat, and oats; sometimes bread made from these grains is fermented instead of malt itself. Traditionally the beer is flavored with juniper berries in addition to, or instead of, hops; the mash is filtered through juniper twigs through a trough-shaped tun called a kuurna in Finnish. Sahti has a distinct banana flavor due to the production of isoamyl acetate by the yeast. Sahti is a top-fermented brew (ale), and while baking yeast has been used traditionally, ale yeast may also be...
 
@WorldEngineer That is a strange brew.
 
@RobertHarvey appropriate since so many of their songs are about getting shitfaced
 
Accordion and thrash guitar. Mind blown.
 
See: Vodka, Tequila, Happy Little Boozer, Wooden Pints
 
9:24 PM
^^^ video reminds of Programmers front page today
 
@gnat I was never terribly fond of Tarja
the new album though, most metal thing Richard Dawkins has ever done
 
@WorldEngineer The new album makes me so happy
 
user55340
/me puts on headphones playing yo-yo ma
 
@WorldEngineer well I am fond of her, because she helped me to seduce my wife
 
@gnat I'm not saying one should not be fond of her :)
I am not but I also started listening to Nightwish around 2004ish anyway
 
9:28 PM
For me it was later than that even. Post 2006 for sure.
 
user55340
Suite for solo cello #1 in g major (bwv 1007: Prelude)
 
@WorldEngineer if memory serves, their popularity exploded around that time, 2003-2004
 
@gnat that and I went to college in 2004
so I had absolute control over my media environment
 
@MichaelT Holy shit, my ears, they are so happy right now.
 
I honestly can't recall who introduced me to them
I know who introduced me to Korpiklaani
that was the former and possibly current webmaster for 40k Radio
 
I forget his handle but he worked as a game dev in SoCal
 
Most of my like of metal and things of that ilk came from my ex-wife. Before that my life was pretty much entirely country music, with some dipping into CCM stuff in my teens before I got bored of it
Country is still my go-to genre though.
 
@AshleyNunn I've introduced you to all manner of oddball stuff
 
@WorldEngineer Yeah, you really, really have :D It's wonderful
 
user55340
I like my metal and singer songwriter... But for some reason here Bach cello solos are the right music for headphones.
 
9:32 PM
My mom scrolled through my mp3 player the other weekend and was like "is there anything you don't listen to" and I was like "rap, because I find the lack of melody uncomfortable, and opera, because the sounds are too high and wobbly"
@MichaelT I'd never listened to this before - I love it, I think it would be a good thing to study to
 
user55340
@AshleyNunn magic flute?
 
user55340
@AshleyNunn ever watch Master and Commander?
 
@MichaelT I am really bad at classical - I like the idea of a lot of it, I just never know what to try because I don't know how to articulate the sounds I find appealing
@MichaelT I can't remember if I have. I don't think so.
 
@MichaelT played by Pablo Casals?
@AshleyNunn try Wagner's overtures
 
okay so the next one is Korpiklaani's cover of possibly one of the most familiar songs that you've no idea who sang it
 
Points for the first to figure it out
without looking at the net
 
...and Beethoven's 5th 3rd movement
 
@WorldEngineer A Billy Idol song, but I can't remember the title.
 
@AshleyNunn he's famous for covering it
most people (me included) think it's his
 
9:40 PM
@WorldEngineer Well, then I did pretty well for a blind listen.
 
this is the original
The question is: "What the hell is a "Shondell"?"
 
yeah, I've only ever heard it as a Billy Idol thing
 
@AshleyNunn yeah, because he's way more interesting than this crew
I'm not fond of the late 60s as a musical period
rolling stones and a few others excepted
 
@WorldEngineer "In 1964 James renamed the band the Shondells because the name "sounded good."", says Wikipedia
 
@AshleyNunn I probably should have done some research :P
 
9:44 PM
Robert and the Rutabagas.
 
@RobertHarvey Robert and the Routers
:P
 
For the record, hitting a guitar like that makes a terrible sound.
Also, "Crimson and Clover" is better, even though it's two different songs with different tunings pasted together.
 
@WorldEngineer original is good and cover is a real killer, thanks!
 
The Routers. I'll have to remember that. Complete with Cisco product placement.
 
^^^ @MichaelT meets @WorldEngineer
 
9:52 PM
@gnat Apocalyptica! <3
This reminds me I really need to expand my music collection as I have time and money
right now I am relying on things I get from other people (which means mostly mom, so mostly country)
 
@AshleyNunn Patsy Cline?
 
@gnat Some, yes - my dad is responsible for anything classic country I have, mom is more recent country
 
@AshleyNunn I know she's (very) old fashioned but haven't heard better country than her
 
@gnat I like a lot of ladies of her era - Loretta, Dolly, Patsy, all of them make me a happy me
 
9:56 PM
@AshleyNunn others of that era are good, too, but Patsy is... special
 
There is definitely something about her, yeah :)
 
user55340
(Much prefer BG over the Uriah version... Watch if you dare...)
 
user55340
The hair should be warning enough...
 
10:00 PM
@MichaelT reminds me of me about 5 year ago
 
user55340
Same shirt(less)?
 
@MichaelT there is one person in the room who has shirtless privileges with me ;P
 
@MichaelT interesting. I like BG's cover, but prefer UH. Guess I just got used to Byron's vocals :)
 
livin' is easy but getting used to their vocal ain't
 
user55340
@gnat I'd put it on the excessive voice manipulation at the end of phrases in UH that gets to me.
 
10:20 PM
@MichaelT @gnat They are still at it
 
@WorldEngineer I just tested, UH is best to listen when reviewing in SO close queue. Brings easy to vote garbage questions and apparent audits. Eddie Murphy and Children Of Bodom work much worse
 
10:55 PM
@WorldEngineer Polishing a turd.
@WorldEngineer Looks like Uriah Heep has gotten better over time.
 
@RobertHarvey given that they have exactly one member in common with the group from the 70s...
 
11:11 PM
The vocalist?
 
user55340
11:40 PM
I need to learn / be able to cook things like this...
 
user55340
 
user55340
Bacon wrapped pineapple stuffed with boneless ribs.
 
@MichaelT If I could still eat pineapple I would be all over that
Tonight I made my own tortillas and then my own bulgogi and now am making tacos with bulgogi and kimchi
 
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