The Whiteboard - 2016-02-15 (page 1 of 2)

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5:30 AM

@JimmyHoffa: That "Readability" plugin is unsigned. Firefox blocked its installation, not once but twice.

5:43 AM

This question is better suited for (programmers)[programmers.stackexchange.com/]. Read #5 of stackoverflow.com/help/on-topic — Tyress 15 secs ago

5:57 AM

@tyress: This question is too broad for Programmers. "What is the process of object oriented analysis and design" is the subject of an entire book, not a Q&A. — Robert Harvey ♦ 27 secs ago

^^ one hour on StackOverflow, zero close votes. Sheesh.

6:07 AM

@RobertHarvey eh, it's meant for Chrome not Firefox...

Any version for Firefox would be pointless, just like Firefox :P

@JimmyHoffa OK. But it said "Readability for Firefox" at the top of the page you linked.'

I don't even have Chrome installed on this particular laptop.

user15026

7:02 AM

@KitZ.Fox if you're still up for writing me a story, can I have one that involves cupcakes and dinosaurs? I just feel like those two things might be fun in some combination.

10:27 AM

@RobertHarvey Firefox comes with a built-in readability mode. In the address bar, there should be a book icon you can click. There are also a number of Readability competitors, namely Pocket and Instapaper which you could check out.

3 hours later…

1:20 PM

Pet hate #102: giving someone a carefully constructed shell command to perform, then listen to them moan for an hour that it doesn't work on their system, only to find out that they arbitrarily changed the command for no reason, based on a faulty assumption, and didn't bother to mention it. Or to try the original even once.

1:50 PM

Yo, @KitZ.Fox. You may also want to check out Scaled Agile Framework v4. It seems to want to accomplish the same goals as Disciplined Agile Delivery, but it's a little different.

Happy Coffee Day.

@AshleyNunn Yes.

@ThomasOwens Thanks.

@KitZ.Fox Keep in mind, I'm only aware of its existence. The early versions were...lackluster. 3 and 4 were supposed to start incorporating a lot of in-the-trenches feedback from companies and teams using it.

OK. I think that was one of the things DAD mentioned that I thought might be useful to learn more about.

It may have. But v4 is very new. The supporting documentation was released a few months ago and the rest has gone up this month.

So anything mentioned in the book was about v3. I'd like to do a comparison of DAD and safe v3 and safe v4.

2:17 PM

sweet. 2x monitors now

Day 11: got monitors.

2:34 PM

Woo!

user55340

2:54 PM

@enderland day 2, got 11 monitors. Day 3; had 10 of them taken away?

3:10 PM

Happy Coffee Day Whiteboard!

And also to you.

How's that saying go? The beans are always better roasted on the other side of the cube wall?

@MichaelT LOL

Wish I knew the name of that company... they were doing everything wrong

3:33 PM

I'm in my first kaizen meeting.

Awesome! What's that?

Remember, the hardest part of punching through the board is realizing that you can

What belt are you?

Yellow.

3:50 PM

> Kaizen is the practice of continuous improvement.

I thought it was continuous integration but never mind

4:01 PM

This is going to be harder than I thought.

that's what she said

4:25 PM

@MichaelT 2550x1440, 1920x1200, 1600x1080 (abouts) are pretty awesome

4:41 PM

Everything seems so futile today.

2560*

@KitZ.Fox have you tried resistance?

wait, no, nevermind.

Strangely, yes.

Then I yielded. And remained silent.

@KitZ.Fox yeah :(

Me: "This isn't going to work the way you are envisioning it."
Him: "Yes it will."
Me: "OK. We'll see how it works."

@RobertHarvey I doubt there are many people following ooad

4:43 PM

His stance is that it was working fine in the other meeting. He's not considering that now he's talking about a four hour meeting and including unfinished work.

But it doesn't matter. It will do what it will.

user55340

@JimmyHoffa changed were good. Thank you. Jekyl has the ability to launch locally with --draft which will show those posts in the feed. GH pages doesn't run in draft mode so those don't seep out into the main site.

4:59 PM

@amon oh? So I am behind the ball on this readability thing. How does that one I found stack up compared to the 2 you listed?

So how do I write a user story that should go something like "As a product manager, I want the internal management interface to be styled like the external interface so that IT doesn't look like a bunch of schmoes who used the ASP.NET wizard to create the website."

lul

"As the product manager, I want a new job"

As an agile consultant, I want Kit's boss to quit fucking everything up and making agile look bad, so that I can continue to charge people to teach what I enjoy.

kek

5:03 PM

I'd argue for a top kek, but that's just my opinion.

The page titles had " - My ASP.NET MVC Application" suffixed.

@Ampt He's not my boss.

Also, he wasn't the one who screwed this part up.

@JimmyHoffa I haven't done any in-depth comparisons. They all extract the main site content and apply their own style sheet, kind of like a reverse adblocker. I use Instapaper to manage my reading list, and it mostly works quite nicely. However, if any of those reading mode thingies would support MathJax, that would be a reason for me to switch.

Still, it would be nice to take the time to make it not look stupid, and I'm having trouble getting the devs to agree. Mostly because it's superficial bullshit. But it's important superficial bullshit, because it makes us look like doofuses.

Here's another one: As a content creator, I want to be able to access the URLBuild functions from the management interface so that I don't have to bookmark some weird url.

I should probably take a break from writing user stories today.

user55340

@KitZ.Fox take the time to convert a filing cabinet to a minibar.

dear JS devs - how do I ensure that a variable I make in a $(document.ready) block is available for hooks that get run elsewhere?

I.E. on button press

both the object and the hook are created in that block if it helps at all...

5:14 PM

Have you tried jQuery?

Speaking of $.

user55340

Dear jquery: a return code of 200 is successful. Please don't send it to error.

user55340

262

Q: AJAX request return 200 OK but error event is fired instead of success

I have implemented an AJAX request on my website which I am calling from a webpage. It always returns 200 OK but jQuery executes the error event. I tried a lot of things but could not figure out the problem. I am adding my code below: jQuery Code var row = "1"; var json = "{'TwitterId':'" + row...

javascript jquery asp.net ajax json

I am using jQuery, yes

(hence the dolla dolla bills yall sign)

but I'm not sure that JQuery will help scope my object lifetimes appropriately?

Then you shouldn't ask about JS, cuz not the same thing.

jQuery is a JS library, Kit.

5:16 PM

:/

They're not separate languages.

I know. I've used it.

Common misconception (for some unfathomable reason)

And most of the problems I had with jQuery were jQuery, not javascript.

Kit, I think you're confused.

user55340

5:16 PM

Boost and qt are C++ standard libraries that everyone uses.

Still a question you'd address to JS devs.

I'm asking about object lifespans and destruction in Javascript. The fact that I'm using JQuery or not doesn't really impact the question, unless JQuery manages those things for me (which I doubt.)

I think you are missing my point.

@Ampt Should already work?

Hard to tell without a MINIMAL TESTCASE FFS

;)

user55340

I'm still waiting for java.lang.spring

5:18 PM

@PreferenceBean will it? I haven't tried it. I'm worried about the object being destructed at the end of the Document Ready block

@Ampt just define a global variable: window.florp = 42

and then my hook calling back on it and dying

@amon that's the answer I was looking for!

@Ampt Not if a closure captures it

@PreferenceBean now you're just trolling me.

0/10 not nearly as good as jimmy

@Ampt No... you don't generally need to worry about your object references becoming dangling in JS. Because they won't.

if anything you're more likely to have the opposite problem thanks to lack of block scope

5:18 PM

But if the other hooks are defined within the document.ready hook, use a closure.

@Ampt yeah I made the mistake of bringing the facts

@amon they are. how do I closure?

I don't see any variables in there

that's my function. I'm almost positive that I'm reinstantiating the form every time I call $(vendor-registration-form).parsley()

there's nothing to "close"

@Ampt you are

so cache a variable that holds it instead

5:20 PM

I want to not do that

@Ampt By nesting functions. Here, the function(e) thingy is a closure over all variables you would define in the document.ready(function() { ... })

just var myForm = $(blah).parsley()?

yes

& referring to it within those callbacks is enough to ensure it lives long enough

that's a closure

ok sweet, thanks

np

5:21 PM

Sorry for calling you a troll (jk not really)

so glad I could be of service

2

Sorry, no rep in chat room, just these useless stars

if this works, I'll even pin it.

holy crap that made a world of difference

NO MORE 6 SECOND LOAD TIMES WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

yes it's amazing what stars can do

man I hate JS. Why did we ever drop the FEDs from the budget?

how the hell big is your DOM that that made a SIX SECOND difference??

5:28 PM

what the heck are you doing

#JUSTINDUSTRYTHINGS

perhaps developing for IE4 on a stone tablet?

I have like 2000 checkboxes in the dom that parsley is iterating over

lolol

lol

5:29 PM

well if you have any more questions about complete and utter JS basics, you just let me know :)

because, you know, when you register to be a vendor with my client, they want you to check off a box for every possible service you could feasibly provide.

In all seriousness, do not claim to hate JS if you don't understand closures yet. That's like hating C++ without understanding that std::vector<int> instantiates a template

2

@PreferenceBean I'm a backend dev - I make all the pretty modules and components that the client uses to author the page. This parsley validation JS bullcrap? That's why we have FEDS

in hindsight, that was a pretty spectacular definition of a closure I gave you up there. yay me ^_^

@Ampt I thought Feds like arrested people and stuff

it generally helps to do a bit of JS stuff away from the DOM for a while, then the JS language itself makes way more sense

5:30 PM

That's The Feds.

@Ixrec starred despite comma splice because facts

@KitZ.Fox Ah!

fixed the splice I think

It's a common misconception.

@Ixrec haha thanks <3

phew

@KitZ.Fox oooh burrrrrn

@Ixrec I get that I'm very novice in JS stuff - it's just that the vast majority of the stuff I do has nothing to do with JS. this is a one off kind of situation where I got stuck doing the JS for this form because requirements (and budgets) shifted very rapidly with very little warning

I get that it's not an awful language - I just don't have the time or budget to learn it right.

5:32 PM

@PreferenceBean ;-P

@Ampt you can get the basic stuff in a weekend easy, I'd recommend it at some point

FEDs = Front End Developers (round these parts)

@Ixrec It's on there right next to haskell

What's wrong with Turbo C++? It works just like any other IDE would work. — stackptr 5 mins ago

oh god

psh, I used Atmel Studio for 3 years. You wanna talk about bad IDE's, you aint seen nothing yet.

OK, let me ask again to make sure I understand. Is it common practice to have the product stakeholders come to the sprint planning session? Not the product owners who are responsible for the backlog, but the business owners who have the ultimate authority over the product.

This is the thing that feels futile today. My argument is that it is a very long technical meeting and that business owners will not be able to or want to participate like this.

5:44 PM

@KitZ.Fox Nope.

He told me twice that I'm not being very Agile.

lol

I see you've met the agile inquisition.

He also told me that I should watch the video and read the book. It's not hard.

LOL

I'm sorry, I know you find this 0% funny

I'm trying to keep a clear head.

I'm trying to not feel targeted.

The point is for us to work this out as a team.

The reason I feel like I'm being bossy is that no one else is owning change.

And the project lead doesn't want it to be me, but there isn't anyone else.

5:49 PM

@Ampt dear @Ampt, this is why everyone in JS needs to use a modules system. It's the absolute only reasonable way to know your dependencies are available before you. That said, a button won't be available for pressing until the document is ready. Furthermore, why are you accessing a variable directly from a button click?

are you dangling variables in the window?

I know that Agile generally has daily interactions with business and developers, but the point is that we work it out with what we have, right? I mean, if business can't invest that kind of time, then we work it out with what they can commit.

argh. I'm going to go make more coffee

That is an excellent idea.

@JimmyHoffa apparently I'm using closures

I'm trying to instantiate a library to do form validation

@Ampt ok, I know what you need. You have a variable in $(document.ready)(function() { var hereIsVar = 'woo'; }), but you don't realize the button click event should be done in the same way such that you should be doing $(document.ready)(function() { var hereIsVar = 'woo'; $('#buttonId').click(function(){hereIsVar = 'notWoo!'; }); })

that is how you make sure the function attached to a button click can access a variable available in document.ready

assign the button click event while inside the document.ready closure, and the closure attached to the button click will be lexically scoped to have the parent scopes variables available.

Ideally you won't destructively update parent scope variables, you should call a pure function instead but I'm thinking that's a bridge too far

5:59 PM

what's going on now

@KitZ.Fox that should not happen. that's like having the family in on a meeting to decide what temperature at which to run the body-burning stove

6 seconds executing a snip of JavaScript is not indicative of too much checkboxes, it's indicative of some JS code doing something it really shouldn't.. you have tons of nested loops or something going on blowing out your runtime complexity or..who knows what..

@KitZ.Fox more importantly, you lot don't want them in on it. you cannot possibly be objective about everything when you have stakeholders listening in

@PreferenceBean See? That's what I was thinking and also isn't it a bit rude to demand that they 'take an active role' by investing four or more hours sitting in a meeting to discuss work that doesn't belong to them?

@KitZ.Fox yes. they don't understand the process at all.

it's micromanagement of the worst possible kind

they should provide their requirements (be that on paper or through meetings or whatever) and then GTFO

It seems abnormal to do user story estimations in the sprint planning meeting as well. Why bother if you're going to create and estimate tasks?

But if not then, then when?

6:06 PM

eh

what else are you there for

To plan the sprint.

how can you plan the sprint without knowing what's going to be in it?

and how do you know what's going to be in it until you know what can be in it?

which involves estimating tasks

How can you know what's going to be in it if the stories aren't estimated?

by estimating them

this is literally the purpose of the meeting....

In the same meeting where you estimate the tasks?

6:07 PM

what else would you be doing?

Estimating the tasks.

well then yes you are correct - you estimate the tasks in the same meeting in which you estimate the tasks

glad we got that straightened out

You didn't read that well.

ok

I'm talking about estimating the stories.

Not the tasks.

6:08 PM

how can you estimate the stories without estimating the tasks

that's the same thing bro

a story is the sum of its tasks. find out how long the tasks will take and you know how long the story will take

then you know whether it can fit in this sprint

next story

It's my understanding that the product backlog consists of prioritized roughly-estimated user stories and that the sprint backlog has the estimated tasks attached to the stories that fit into the sprint.

broke the build. #success

@KitZ.Fox you're talking about high-level estimates?

Nice job, @enderland.

those should be done as the stories hit the backlog

far too late by the time you get to sprint planning

6:09 PM

the best part is it was a delayed breaking-the-build and only took effect later. hah.

@PreferenceBean This is what I'm saying.

@KitZ.Fox ok so what's the problem

wait, someone's doing high-level estimates in a sprint planning meeting?

But it can't be every time I write a story. That's all I do all day.

And if not during sprint planning, then when?

hmm. we did that for a while to get the backlog up to date. but once your process has settled down that should be done as a matter of course outside of those meetings

I wouldn't worry too much about that

tries to think what work will be like when things settle down

I have around 50 items still to enter.

6:11 PM

an organisation that depends heavily on formal meetings to make any group decisions may as well high-level estimate new stories at the start of the sprint planning session. it's not technically sprint planning, but since you're all there...

though that way it's gonna take all day

Maybe once a week planning poker.

see we just don't bother with this now. too much overhead. at least considering how disorganised the rest of our firm is (and how swiftly requirements change as a result)

just no point

@KitZ.Fox good example of why 2+ weeks sprints are better :)

Better than what? one week sprints?

We're starting with 2-week sprints, but story estimations are outside of that.

I take it back. I've got it down to 30ish more items.

you're doing two sprint planning meetings per sprint?

that's only because you have the entire backlog to "initialise", I hope...

We're doing none so far.

@PreferenceBean Yeah, I hope so too.

6:16 PM

well now you've lost me

We've been lurching through the process, trying to figure out what to do as we go.

The last "sprint planning" meeting was not really one.

sounds like you could do with a career planning meeting

jk

We have one scheduled for an hour every week, so I don't know what it will be like this week, although I guess we're supposed to be planning the next sprint, but we're not finished with this one yet.

lol an hour

I know, right.

6:19 PM

how can you plan the next sprint before you know what's left over from the current one

that's the least agile thing ever

your conclusions have a shelf life of like two days

The project lead is now pushing that I will lead the sprint planning meetings because he doesn't have time, but he wants to tell me how to do them.

sprint, retrospective, planning, sprint, retrospective, planning ...

Hence the disagreement and accusations of how I don't know what I'm doing.

that's not very kind

this is your manager?

Kindness is not a requirement.

Not my manager. My manager is very kind.

6:21 PM

tell him to stfu then

The three of us are meeting to talk it over later. What I need to have happen is that I run the sprint planning meetings, period.

If I need help, I will ask for it. Those are my terms.

sounds good

if you want something done right, etc

@psr too fast!

@psr that's awesome

:(

what's awesome

Making him eat the pudding.

6:23 PM

@PreferenceBean At work management has begun to understand the reality and importance of technical debt more so than before.

nom nom

indeed, having technical debt is very important

2

That's called job security!

Which is helpful, because I figured out a seam in our code were we can fool it into getting out of our way and write new stuff, but still function properly for things we don't want to change. There's still a big meeting ahead about it, but now there is some understanding of why it's worth a little jumping through hoops to avoid dealing with high debt code. So, I am hopeful.

optimism. I like it

@PreferenceBean I'm giving it a try, but I doubt it will work.

6:30 PM

haha. Aww. It's good to feel hopeful sometimes.

@JimmyHoffa - Lenses seem to have a certain amount of magic going on. They look pretty nice so I'm trying to figure them out. Not sure if I should worry about higher kinded polymorphism and template haskell or just trust the magic.

psr drunk. thinks glasses are made from haskell now

It's just the rose tint. It takes some time to adjust.

insert joke about the blind leading the blind

I think the rose tint is because the haskell glasses only see things that are pure.

6:37 PM

don't much like the frames though

not very sexy

very functional

As a customer, I want to see the most commonly viewed relationship first so that I something something dark side.

HNQ here I come... please? hah

user41796

@KitZ.Fox "... so that I don't have to think for myself." :-P

@enderland what did you tell someone new to quit their job

4

A: Can the interviewer apply for the same job?

It's not poor form. It seems likely you are worrying about nothing. But why not just ask that management who previously was surprised? "Hey, I know I previously had not wanted to apply for this role. I've been reconsidering and would like to apply for it. I recognize I just served as an inter...

no :P

6:47 PM

so yes!!

@enderland In this interview you will be competing with me for a job I really want. I will be evaluating your answers and reporting to management. Before we begin, let me state that you disgust me and I can already smell the flop sweat. Let's begin.

BRING IT

found the bug in the library and hotfixed it because upgrading is out of the question

too much alpha in this room right now, switching to beta.

three minutes to go time.

I've got the Agile manifesto open on my browser.

too much alpha?

6:59 PM

Yes. Everyone is doing very well.

That is a good thing.

I want to describe it as cocky assertiveness, but you can't access my emotional reaction to those words, and it is likely that you will interpret them differently than I mean them.

well that was certainly enlightening

It's a nice feeling of camaraderie to me.

it's called being in a good mood

I actually did interview with someone who wanted the same job. He was a consultant and the company he was working for asked him to bring on help to cut down his hours. The interview consisted of having an hour to fill a difficult ticket on their real system, with no documentation or internet access, on a provided VM, with the guy watching. The ticket did not have enough information for a new hire to understand what it meant.

At the time I didn't realize he wanted the job, so I did fix their issue (years outstanding) that they couldn't get visual studio to run it with breakpoints, so they had to debug with print statements. Obviously that didn't help, but of course it was already looking like a sketchy job at that point.

~~... and that's how the Visual Studio team came about~~ nah not funny

7:02 PM

@psr oh, that was you?

:D

I don't want to bring down the mood - but this form validation might kill me

I could offer you a tumble with a soothing lavender-scented dryer sheet if you think that would help soften your mood.

I've had a poor day too

not terrible

but not productive and I know the next few won't be much better

omg

I think I've got it

I can't handle this emotional roller coaster today

Apparently some layoffs happened yesterday. Now when I hear people laughing in the office I double check to make sure it's not actually sobbing. sigh

user41796

7:19 PM

@Ampt tears of joy?

ha, could very well be, yes.

"you're fired"

"THANK YOU!"

Sadly one of the people I worked with closely during my last tenure in devops is leaving us. I've been repeating her advice to me for the past two weeks - "We're not saving lives here, it's just a website."

@GlenH7 frak, meant to delete that msg. oh well

Granted she worked at NASA in flight control and actually held life or death situations in her hands before so... she had some more perspective than I :)

user41796

7:21 PM

yep, sage advice. Gotta keep things in perspective

user41796

@PreferenceBean What message? :-P

hah thx

I should totally be room moderator [sic]

our friendly neighborhood censor on duty as usual.

doesn't help you delete older messages

only mods can do that

all room owner does is let you see what others delete

29 secs ago, by PreferenceBean

I should totally be room moderator [sic]

also there's a 2 year hazing period before room ownership is decreed upon a person|sock|whatever jimmy is

would you like to submit your application into the queue?

7:22 PM

don't wanna be room owner

I want moderation powers so I can delete old messages and ban people and stuff

but I don't want to be a moderator

TOO BAD YOU'RE IN THE QUEUE

and also some fries please

haha I said "fries". enjoy it. it won't happen again.

as opposed to what? Chips?

yeah the real word

@Ampt no, that would be crisps.

7:25 PM

I admit "joints" such as McDonalds have trained us to say fries instead of chips under certain circumstances

user55340

@GlenH7 you want to write blogish posts... Right?

well, basically, when we're at McDonalds I suppose

user55340

the-whiteboard.github.io

user55340

github.com/the-whiteboard/the-whiteboard.github.io/issues

@PreferenceBean Sorry, I don't understand your units. Could you explain that in freedom units? Thanks.

7:30 PM

@Ampt sure! just one thing... how many freedom points are there per story point?

user41796

Things are complicated.

is there an easy way to set an environment variable for $PATH like $PATH=${foo}/bin when $foo=/my/path/one:/my/path/two ?

does $PATH+= work?

it works fine, but I want to append /bin to both values of foo

that does something liek PATH=${PATH}:/my/path/one:/my/path/two/bin

oh, then you need magic

user41796

7:36 PM

@enderland regex

user55340

@GlenH7 fair 'nuff. That said it's something that I write slowly- over the course of several evenings.

user55340

@enderland UNIX?

@MichaelT yeah, bash

user55340

Make a list. Iterate over list modifying the path each time.

user55340

Something akin to: (bash is rusty... so not bash)

user55340

7:39 PM

list = (foo bar qux)
for item in $list do
  $PATH = $PATH:$item/bin
od

0

Q: Environment variable concatenation and append

If I have an environment variable: $foo=/my/path/one:/my/path/two How can I set: $bar=${foo}/bin where: $bar=/my/path/one/bin:/my/path/two/bin ? Doing what I have done above only does (not lack of /bin on first path): $bar=/my/path/one/:/my/path/two/bin I can manually set this, or it...

that falls into the "unnecessarily complicated" realm, though it'd work

user55340

Oh, the things I've done in rc files.

yeah... that's where it's going (well bash_profile but same thing on mac as linux)

user55340

Had a home directory that was on three different architectures. Hpux ultrix and Linux.

user55340

So I had a ~/bin/$arch/

7:46 PM

@MichaelT This should work, but lose the spaces around =. Bash does not like that. Also, you don't need the list here, as you can write the values into the for-loop.

user55340

Hard to syntax check bash on an iPhone.

user55340

But it's the idea.

-5

Q: How to get data from yahoo finance

I am writing a programm in C++ which needs to get data from yahoo finance. How to do this in C++? Are there any special library?

c++ yahoo-finance

this guy has a promising career in banking ahead of him

7:59 PM

my hopes were so high when I saw it was closed

then I realized it was closed as a dupe. of a question still open. with 20+ votes

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