The Whiteboard

2:18 AM

Cool. So far, we've had one answer that says, in effect, "Don't write unit tests" (or at least ones that require mocks, which pretty much limits you to writing pure functions), and another answer (this one) that says "don't write integrations tests." Looks like I don't need to write tests at all anymore. Thanks! You guys have saved me a lot of work. — Robert Harvey 2 mins ago

CandiedOrange

?

Robert Harvey

@CandiedOrange Don't look at me. I didn't write the answers.

CandiedOrange

Just thrown off by you quoting yourself like Duga quotes others.

CandiedOrange

3:18 AM

thoughts?

Aaron Hall

12:33 PM

@AJHenderson Cool, what made it easy?

Can you please stop posting these answers. While I appreciate your efforts I am concerned that any further discussion will cause SE to decide to postpone the rename and I (and many other people) don't want that to happen. The new logo and masthead might not be perfect but they are a distinct improvement on the old logo and masthead. If you want to raise your concerns please start a new question. If there's enough interest in making the changes you propose I'm sure they'll be considered at a more appropriate time. — ChrisF ♦ 14 mins ago

MetaFight

WANT

AJ Henderson

1:33 PM

@AaronHall we never stripped out the functionality and we'd since simplified things down to one generic class that handled all the places the type of code it impacted were calling through

so I just had to switch which flag was being used in one place and everything worked

Aaron Hall

1:51 PM

Great, so elegant usage of OOP made it simple. Cheers!

I will not tolerate the removal of oxford commas. Also I demand a t-shirt. Also, I demand that I may or may not demand anything further. I also demand to not be taken too seriously in regards to demands. — Aaron Hall Oct 14 at 18:53

I called it first! :D

enderland

3:00 PM

@mbomb007 as a non-"golfer" I am pretty turned off when I see every HNQ where most of the top answers use languages built explicitly for the purpose of making convoluted and impossible to read code to minimize the total number of characters. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ That's a pretty big detraction from me being involved here with normal languages. Not sure if other people feel similarly to me or not. — enderland 2 mins ago

am I the only one who feels this way about code golf?

Thomas Owens

@enderland No.

enderland

@ThomasOwens I happened across that meta post and found myself scratching my head that they are wondering why they can't attract folks

Robert Harvey

3:51 PM

What is the name of the scrolling pattern used in cell phones, where only the data currently visible in the viewport is kept in memory and the surrounding data is loaded as needed when the user swipes?

I know it has a name, I just don't remember what it is. Something like "adaptive scrolling."

CandiedOrange

Are you talking about infinite scrolling where you never can scroll all the way to the bottom since there isn't one?

Robert Harvey

It's the "I can't keep everything in memory, nor would I want to, so I'm going to load data on demand (as the user scrolls it in), but I still need to do a bit of cache-ahead to keep the scrolling experience smooth" software pattern.

CandiedOrange

Is this what you mean?

Robert Harvey

4:10 PM

More like this: scrollmagic.io/examples/advanced/infinite_scrolling.html

CandiedOrange

That's infinite scrolling

Robert Harvey

So it would seem.

Though what I had in mind was more of an "adaptive infinite scrolling" where some of the records on either site pre-load to make the scrolling process smoother.

ratchet freak

isn't that just infinite scrolling with read-ahead?

Martmists

4:49 PM

is this stackexchanges poor excuse for IRC

Aaron Hall

5:07 PM

If one is listening to a presenter who keeps dropping consonants, is there anything one can do about it?

CandiedOrange

Make him watch my fair lady?

Aaron Hall

I didn't consider that one.

CandiedOrange

Sick 'enry 'iggins on em :)

Aaron Hall

[sic]

^^^ that's a pun

CandiedOrange

yeah I get it

Aaron Hall

5:17 PM

I just wanted to be sure.

CandiedOrange

latin jokes are always a crowd pleaser

Aaron Hall

Latin and English overlap are uncommon, I'm very proud I spotted that.

preens

CandiedOrange

We're all very proud of you. Your mother would be pleased.

Aaron Hall

gets a big head

Tom

@AaronHall do we need to get the oompa loompas in here to deflate you?

Aaron Hall

5:22 PM

can barely fit through the door

Robert Harvey

5:44 PM

-1

Q: Let's re-evaluate the Question Timer

I know this seems like a good idea, but this far into the game you should be able to tell from network behavior that I'm not a spammer.. I had a compound question. I broke it up because breaking it up was a possible -- it probably isn't even necessary in that it wouldn't otherwise get closed. ...

Ah, irony.

Aaron Hall

I don't usually fact check pictures I repost, btw - but seems legit.

Tom

John Stubbs

John Stubbs (or Stubbe) (c. 1544 – after 25 September 1589) was an English pamphleteer or political commentator during the Elizabethan era. He was born in the County of Norfolk, and was educated at Trinity College, Cambridge. After reading law at Lincoln's Inn, he lived at Thelveton, in the County of Norfolk. He was a committed Puritan, and he opposed the negotiations for marriage between Queen Elizabeth and François, Duke of Anjou, a French Roman Catholic who was the brother of the King of France. == Publication of French Marriage pamphlet == In 1579 he put his opinions into a pamphlet entitled...

Aaron Hall

5:59 PM

I don't usually fact-check wikipedia either, but sometimes I do.

Tom

it's usually accurate enough for my purposes. I don't expect everything to be 100% there, but it's still cool to read about the histories of some people (Jack Benny, Mel Blanc, etc)

enderland

@AaronHall it's fun to look at the, ah, quality sources it sites sometimes

Aaron Hall

Yeah. Why do outlook alerts fail me half the time?

Tom

6:17 PM

Because Microsoft heard that you used a Mac one time, so they've increased the entropy of your system for you. If you ever deign to touch a linux box, they'll make your system about as stable as Windows ME on the original Pentium Processor

enderland

@AaronHall my biggest problem with that is when you dismiss a reminder but the meeting gets moved further into the future

Aaron Hall

They've already lost my personal OS completely to Linux.

Tom

mine as well. unfortunately, for work, I'm still on Windows 7 and Visual Studio

Duga

6:46 PM

This might be a good question for the Programmers Stack Exchange, but it's off topic here. — Brian 51 secs ago

Aaron Hall

6:58 PM

When you have to blow away preexisting data to bootstrap a release, that's symptomatic of doing something wrong, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

It's like, the data lifecycle hasn't been well thought out.

Tom

I'd be very concerned about blowing away data at all. if there needs to be a change, it needs to be updated to the new format.

Duga

kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/… — Biffen 21 secs ago

Robert Harvey

8:39 PM

@gnat: Why do you keep insisting on referring people to Stack Overflow with questions that are going to fail there?

gnat

8:58 PM

@RobertHarvey I told you already that these references are only your imagination. I ask simple questions of users who can answer them

you seem to think that nonsense repeated thousand times will eventually turn into truth for those who see it. this may actually work, I saw that before. Keep trying

Robert Harvey

9:32 PM

@gnat How is "Why didn't you ask at Stack Overflow" not referring them back to Stack Overflow?

How does that not imply that their question belongs over there and not here?

enderland

9:56 PM

course bad questions on SO from PSE are a drop in a bucket

gnat

@RobertHarvey nice way to use selective quoting, huh? "your SO profile says last seen 5 mins ago", how convenient of you to omit this part. Because if you included it, this would make it 200% clear that refering-back is only your imagination. User is already there and the question turns into simple why they picked to leave the site they were just in

CandiedOrange

10:09 PM

I found gnat to be annoying as all hell when I was learning. I also found him more informative then any of the close reasons I was hit with. Fixing them often just bumps you into another close reason. I'd rather gnat was yelling at me.

Robert Harvey

@gnat If their question is off-topic on Stack Overflow, your question is irrelevant. Asking it only confuses the issue.

Doesn't matter when they visited SO.

CandiedOrange

@RobertHarvey Being off topic isn't the same as a question being the kind that won't do well there. You have a specific example?

Robert Harvey

The last three times gnat posted his comment "your SO profile says last seen 5 mins ago, why didn't you ask over there?"

Last one was this gem:

-2

Q: How to create a groupbox xamarin forms in xaml?

Code does not build. I am unable to create a simple group box that displays a frame around a group of controls with an optional caption. Is there an error with my code? Is there another option? This code is for xamarin forms. I have seen that creating a panel maybe an option rather that a grou...

c# xaml xamarin

enderland

@RobertHarvey you know that he's using the same canned comment to basically "tag" posts which suggest a Q-blocked user, right?

Robert Harvey

@enderland He says that's not what he's doing.

in Discussion between Robert Harvey and gnat, yesterday, by gnat

@RobertHarvey no it is not "an attempt" at anything besides wondering why user left the site they are active at. And it doesn't imply anything, as I already told you. The user ignores on-topic here and there is no reason why they would respect it there, any implications you may imagine are only in your imagination

enderland

10:33 PM

@RobertHarvey that question is +3/-1 ?

Robert Harvey

Hm? The Xamarin one is +1/-3. The "Java Comparison Tool" one is +0/-3

enderland

wait. that's what I meant

I need a beer

gnat

@RobertHarvey confusion is only in your imagination, I ask legitimate question. Topicality is irrelevant here as I already told you. Unless you believe in users who ignore Programmers topics and in the same time respect these of SO. I already told you about that and no matter how many times you repeat this nonsense it won't become true. Only thing you can achieve with this repetition is make others believe that this is true. Keep trying and you may succeed, I won't waste time explaining this again

CandiedOrange

cause that'll help you think straight :)

Robert Harvey

@gnat There's nothing to explain. You're referring people back to Stack Overflow with their shitty questions. I know that's not what you think you're doing, but you are.

Just stop it.

gnat

10:46 PM

@RobertHarvey just flag it. I am not going to waste time on you anymore. Let moderators handle this

CandiedOrange

@RobertHarvey wait a sec, are you saying you're against mentioning any other site we think a question might be better suited for?

Robert Harvey

[sigh]

1. User asks his crappy, off-topic question here.

2. It's just as off-topic on Stack Overflow as it is here.

3. Gnat asks: "Why didn't you ask it on Stack Overflow?"

4. Head explodes.

CandiedOrange

Exactly why are you claiming it's off topic on stack overflow?

Robert Harvey

Which one?

CandiedOrange

Well lets do the comparison tool one for now

Robert Harvey

10:52 PM

That question is essentially unanswerable.

He's having memory management problems, and thinks we can use our psychic powers to divine what the problem is.

If it migrates, it will just get kicked back here.

CandiedOrange

As it currently stands it likely is unless someone out there has run into this. But being unanswerable isn't a topic issue. It's a quality issue. The only reason it would be migrated back here is that we're not supposed to migrate crap. Suppose it was improved but retained the same subject?

Robert Harvey

The same principle applies to site recommendations as it does to question migrations. "Don't recommend crap questions to other sites."

If it was improved, it might possibly be answerable on Stack Overflow. But not in its present form.

CandiedOrange

Right, the there's a real person with an issue right now not getting help because they don't understand why two of our high rep users are arguing with each other. Tell me a story that leads to this person figuring what to do and where to go to ask a question worth answering.

Robert Harvey

Asking "your SO profile says last seen 5 mins ago, why didn't you ask over there" is certainly not going to accomplish that.

Frankly, I don't know how that question is salvageable, and I don't know how I could explain why to the OP without going into a lengthy treatise. I stopped doing that awhile ago, because it simply consumes far too much time for people who won't listen anyway.

CandiedOrange

It has. I've watched it happen. Some people engage with gnat. Some end up admitting they were question banned. Some, like me, were honestly just exploring hoping to find better luck. Gnat is a pain in the ass but sometimes it's a pain in just the right spot.

Robert Harvey

11:03 PM

I'm fine with that, so long as he stops referring people back to Stack Overflow with their crappy questions.

CandiedOrange

Well not explaining the problem to the OP is your prerogative. When gnat tries it opens him up to getting message notifications. At least he's giving them a chance to ask. Yes when you mention another site your endorsing a move. Yes it would be better if he mentioned all the issues. But we mention stackoverflow in a close message anyway. At least this way the OP has a chance to ask questions first. Should we just close everything as to broad?

enderland

"optimize for pearls, not sand"

Robert Harvey

If I thought there was a way to salvage his question, I would have done it. But I've had to learn to conserve my time for those situations where I might actually make a difference.

If people really want to make it work, they'll figure it out.

CandiedOrange

@enderland I stopped caring about salvaging questions a long time ago. I'm looking at how we're dealing with humans getting their first impression of us. The clueless newbs are the future of the site.

What I'm saying is there is more on that page than an unsalvageable question. There's a person who has no idea what the hell our problem is.

enderland

@CandiedOrange if we turn away 20 new people and get one person like yourself, from the people asking questions here that's a win to me

Robert Harvey

11:14 PM

That first impression needs to be impressed before they ask their first question here. If we wait until they begin asking questions, it's too late.

CandiedOrange

well, blush, thanks :)

I know, I think your intersticial page is a good idea but until it happens we deal with what we have.

BBIAB

Robert Harvey

We can start by refraining from referring people back to Stack Overflow for questions that are just going to get closed there. Gnat would never put up with that from the Stack Overflowians; why should they put up with that from us?

enderland

@CandiedOrange also don't forget we get probably 20+ crappy questions a day. the bar for 1/20 isn't really that high ;-)

CandiedOrange

11:53 PM

@robertharvey well I think the message could be improved. But I think were all better with it as is than without it. The point isn't to get the OP to move the question. It's to get the OP to understand the problem before they post again. Saying nothing doesn't stop them from posting again. I'm in favor of close voters saying SOMETHING even if it isn't perfect. But you're right. This isn't a perfect message.

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