The Whiteboard

9:00 PM

That isn't what this site is about, we don't write programs for you. If you want that, there are places on the internet where you can hire programmers. — Ron Beyer 10 secs ago

Aaron Hall

Hey, I've got a great idea for another SE site! - weprogramforyou.stackexchange.com

enderland

@AaronHall have you tried programmers.stackexchange i heard they will give u teh codez

Aaron Hall

yeah, but sometimes they're grumpy about it, that's why we need a new one.

Dude, why haven't we thought of this before!?

durron597

Hey did I ever tell y'all what I'm working on?

user114359

@durron597 does it involve bringing the dead back to life?

whatsisname

9:04 PM

developers.slashdot.org/story/15/12/11/1556222/…

durron597

@Snowman We don't get any snow here, I can't help you

user114359

@durron597 not for me, I have a cat I would like to turn into a zombie.

user114359

and I don't have a Pet Sematary nearby.

enderland

@whatsisname that seems like a complete joke idea, basically trying to monetize open source?

Ampt

@durron597 nope

whatsisname

9:08 PM

it probably is just trying to get in on some IPO cashmoney

Ampt

@whatsisname yeah, that idea has 0 traction

I mean that's essentially what my company does, and the whole "Idea to development and back" is why we have mountains of lawyers and business analysts

Aaron Hall

weprogramforyou.stackexchange.com would be the perfect migrate target for gimme teh codez questions.

Ampt

> After converting product requirements into a development plan, they let their group of remote developers start hacking away at the code.

AKA We have a ton of idiots offshore who will make crap code for pennies

hacking away is probably an apt analogy

Aaron Hall

Nah, that's hack in the positive sense.

user55340

Friday - Rebecca Black - Official Music Video

►

user55340

9:12 PM

@enderland there - auto tune

Ampt

@AaronHall hack is only positive for pen testers and rookies

Aaron Hall

Friday, Friday, Friday - oh... I thought you'd always be mine...

whatsisname

alright gotta hit the road

catch ya'll later

durron597

@Ampt amazon.com/imdbasks

Ampt

@whatsisname Have a good weekend man

enderland

9:13 PM

@MichaelT flagged as offensive

Ampt

@durron597 oooh that's right you work there

@enderland yeah, WTF @MichaelT. She had a lot of surgery to sound like a robot!

Aaron Hall

"hack", strictly speaking

Ampt

@AaronHall you work in software development, right?

Next time you have a problem and you're telling your boss about it, mention that you have this really great hack that'll solve the problem

user41796

@Ampt Nah, he pretends to work, just like the rest of us.

Aaron Hall

:)

Ampt

9:16 PM

@GlenH7 sorry but that position has been filled.

user41796

Mr. Consultant is going for more billable hours?

enderland

@Ampt they are always hiring more professional slackers

SE helps you go for Senior Slacker

moderator might put you to Staff Slacker

Aaron Hall

Job title: Senior Hacker

Ampt

@GlenH7 Mr Consultant is also the dev assigned to maintenance on this contract

enderland

@Ampt is that code for playing ping pong until something breaks? ;)

Ampt

9:17 PM

@enderland Nah, we only have an air hockey machine

user41796

@durron597 - did you see the eventual blow-back on MSE from the Lounge exploding?

durron597

@GlenH7 no

Ampt

@GlenH7 I didn't - what happened?

user41796

Very long read - meta.stackexchange.com/questions/270587/…

Aaron Hall

Hey, quit (removed)ing stuff. I can't keep up.

Ampt

9:18 PM

I mean I would figure they did, but it's new?

durron597

@Ampt No click the link

user41796

@AaronHall Hazing. :-)

durron597

well, i mean now they do

Ampt

I dont' see any chat?

durron597

it's off because the show isn't live

it was on last night

user41796

9:19 PM

SE is going to revise some chat policies and Shog was soliciting feedback on other aspects of chat to reconsider

durron597

@GlenH7 Oh, that I saw

I didn't realize it was related to the lounge exploding

user41796

Buried in there, yours truly opined that they should unify the chat servers.

user41796

@durron597 yep. 110% directly related

enderland

@GlenH7 I think it's the combination of SFF and Lounge both in recent weeks

durron597

I didn't know the lounge exploded, btw.

user41796

9:21 PM

Here ya go - meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/311540/…

Ixrec

-145? geez

user41796

@enderland Yeah, Shog freezing SFF was a pretty clear sign that things aren't where they should be

user41796

I still love Madara's quote:

user41796

> @BartekBanachewicz Are you sure? Because I've had a really long day, and a war sounds very good to me. Test me.

Lightness Races in Orbit

lol

every time I see that, I initially read it as Braket saying those words. Because that's precisely the sort of thing he'd say.

Aaron Hall

9:23 PM

I wanna know why they keep voting to close it.

Lightness Races in Orbit

@GlenH7 I'd missed this too - thanks for the lolas!

durron597

I might have done the same thing if I had run for mod and been elected, the Lounge has been unacceptable to me for a very long time.

4

user41796

@LightnessRacesinOrbit There are some gems in there if you have the patience to wade through it all

enderland

@GlenH7 yeah

Lightness Races in Orbit

@GlenH7 I'm not going out tonight so yeah :)

user41796

9:25 PM

If anything shows that he was a good person to elect as a mod, that's it. It's the whole "don't care how many days in, we're fixing things."

Lightness Races in Orbit

Damn straight.

user41796

I lucked out with the MSE post and got my answer in near the beginning. Pulled in some sweet repz from it. I think if I had added the suggestion later on then it would have simply been buried

Ampt

@GlenH7 SFF?

Ixrec

@Ampt sci-fi/fantasy

he's referring to the chat room Mos Eisley, which I frequent

Ampt

Oh boy, what did they do?

Ixrec

9:28 PM

our room got frozen for a few days

Ampt

just the lounge by another name I take it?

enderland

speaking of SFF, I currently am pulling in rep for a HNQ from a question there woot

user114359

@GlenH7 You got +10 internet points from me

Ampt

I find Mos Eisley at least descriptive

enderland

@Ampt not even close, the lounge is... special

Ixrec

9:28 PM

I have no experience with the Lounge but from what everyone's been saying about it I have to assume the Lounge is much worse than Mos Eisley

Lightness Races in Orbit

@GlenH7 Hey, I found one!

@bluefeet judging by today's events, I'd say most Lounge members would do a much better job of moderating that situation than current freshmen. — Bartek Banachewicz Dec 2 at 2:34

user41796

@Ampt Not quite as bad, but in this case they were pretty well off their rockers.

Ixrec

in Mos Eisley most participants were completely unproblematic, it was more two or three users had a habit of starting controversial arguments and then letting them get out of control

Ampt

Well yeah, the lounge was awful, but it sounds like Mos Eisley is another "No holds barred" room

user114359

The thing with Mos Eisley is you expect a bunch of ill-mannered nerds being on the SFF site. The Lounge is on a professional programming site.

Ampt

9:29 PM

(just from the name and the fact that they were put in timeout)

Ixrec

it had holds barred long before the freezing happened

Ampt

Did he delete it or should I look through the chat record?

Ixrec

in fact the freezing happened because Shog had concluded that rules and room owners weren't cutting it, he decided to nuke the room and suspend the most problematic users instead

Ampt

:D

Ixrec

and honestly, it does appear to have worked

no it should all be there

user41796

9:29 PM

@Ampt It was flagged and deleted

Ampt

Boooooooo

Ixrec

well most of it should be there

user41796

@Ixrec wait, he killed off mos eisley completely?

Ixrec

he froze it for a few days

user41796

ah, ok

Ampt

9:31 PM

@Ixrec do you have a rough date/time for me to see when it all went down?

Ixrec

meta.scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/7517/… might help you pin it down

that also contains Shog's official post on the subject of wtf happened and why he did it

(which makes a lot more sense than the message he left in the chatroom at the time it happened)

Ampt

Ah ok, I got enough of it

Chat is just imploding

nothing to see here

Ixrec

the good news is Mos Eisley has been completely without incident or awkwardness after all of this

I'm not sure if I completely agree with what Shog did but it sure as hell fixed something

Ampt

@Ixrec that's good to hear. Not room enough for 2 trashy chat rooms

user41796

@Ixrec It was heavy handed, yes. OTOH, fix it once or fix it many times?

Ixrec

9:35 PM

@GlenH7 yes, the heavy-handedness is not the part I took issue with

but that's not important

in particular, this demonstrates to me at least that there is nothing fundamentally terrible about SE chat as a system

user41796

I think he lost his cool while doing so, and it would have been better if he hadn't. That said, I can fully relate

enderland

in both cases, people are the problem, not the system

Ixrec

in Mos it was just a couple of users who would periodically go overboard (and had a suspicious habit of doing so when the room owners weren't there...)

I suspect the Lounge is similar, except the troublemakers are a majority instead of a minority

Ampt

well we haven't Deleted @LightnessRacesinOrbit yet so they can't all be bad

Ixrec

also, if the quotations in this MSO thread are any indication, the Lounge really is far worse than Mos Eisley was

user41796

9:38 PM

I think it's the insular aspect of the lounge that magnifies its impact

Ixrec

we've had a few gems of this caliber in Mos but when they happened the entire chatroom immediately said something to the effect of "that was not a nice thing to say, you should probably stop talking now before they nuke us"

enderland

10 mins ago, by enderland

@Ampt not even close, the lounge is... special

Ixrec

Ok I was on the fence until the rape thing. Shut it down. Jeez. — Clive Dec 2 at 2:04

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec Do you know what The Lounge is?

the most amazing thing to me about how awful The Lounge is, is it's explicit purpose...

durron597

@JimmyHoffa It's the C++ chatroom in Stack Overflow! It even says so in the title!!

Ixrec

9:43 PM

I'm reading the legends now

I have never been there and it seems I should never attempt to visit

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec moral of the story: C++ rots the brain

Ixrec

let's all write Javascript instead

Jimmy Hoffa

^-- works for me.

Aaron Hall

They just went unmoderated for too long.

Jimmy Hoffa

@AaronHall ?? No... there's no "not moderated" that makes a place...like that...

it takes people for that to happen. Honestly- they should all be given explicit messaging: Everyone who is here as a regular- go to IRC. Here's a room. Stay away from the professional part of the internets, you're not ready for it.

Lightness Races in Orbit

9:45 PM

@Ampt I haven't stepped foot in that crack den for many months

Aaron Hall

It wasn't Mordor, it was the Wild West.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa I disagree. They were allowed to fester that way for too long and they grew an even greater sense of entitlement.

Lightness Races in Orbit

It's like I was being held in the cellar under the Lounge for the first thirty years of my life. Finally, I escaped, now free to tell my tale...

Ixrec

@LightnessRacesinOrbit you were involved in this? (yes I know nothing at all about this legendary chat room)

Ampt

@LightnessRacesinOrbit Does Freedom taste like scotch?

Lightness Races in Orbit

9:46 PM

@Ixrec Not in this most recent debacle, no. I have been watching with great amusement from as far away as possible.

Ampt

@Ixrec he was a regular over there long before the current meltdown if I'm reading it right.

Lightness Races in Orbit

The Lounge, for all its problems, is so busy as to be a great place for entertaining procrastination during the working day, and there are some wonderfully amusing people there who I would even call friends.

However:

Aaron Hall

A couple of times I would drop in, chastise them for their flags, they'd mock me, and I'd leave.

Lightness Races in Orbit

Dec 2 at 15:51, by Lightness Races in Orbit

Ultimately, the gruff, self-important middle-aged Americans, the embattled Europeans in their early 20s who think everything in the world sucks, and the maladjusted late teen from the UK who hasn't quite left his parents' house yet and thinks this is probably a good justification for dictating what SO policy is and isn't made me realise that I was wasting my energies

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 that's a problem. The problem is the people who came to the table to begin with. If this place were to "fester" unchecked, it would turn into Cheers (I'm Cliff btw)... When you have a group of people abusing your services, it's not the services or the way you manage them that's the problem.

Lightness Races in Orbit

9:48 PM

"Entitled" is probably the best way to describe the majority of regulars there (thanks, Glen!). It's not that they cross the line occasionally: it's that they do so semi-regularly and, when called out on it either by a co-chatter or by a moderator or by whoever, they make it worse by pretending to have every right to have done what they did. Because "community".

The kids get loud and obnoxious, slating people and being childish ... and the grown-ups go into full passive-aggressive mode, as if their relatively advanced years should automatically generate some kind of unconditional "respect" from the people they're quietly abusing .... and being childish.

user114359

This whole chat thing can be summed up quite nicely.

user114359

What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!

Lightness Races in Orbit

On balance, we'd be a lot better off without all of it, especially because this chat is perfectly decent and nice and friendly and on-topic and entertaining.

Ampt

sometimes I fear that for the Whiteboard. But we're generally accepting of fresh blood

Ixrec

I really can't imagine anything bad ever happening here

Ampt

9:50 PM

It's definitely a balancing act.

Ixrec

this room is just so thoroughly harmless and inoffensive

Lightness Races in Orbit

What you said about sending them packing to IRC - I honestly don't know why they don't do that. They genuinely believe, as we've seen time and time again on meta, that they have a right to be here on SO, using the SO chat system, against SO policies as if it were their own technology. Bizarre.

Ixrec

unless you really hate alcohol or something

Lightness Races in Orbit

There, your The Lounge starter pack.

Ampt

@Ixrec eh, we can be pretty short with people who we feel aren't trying hard enough

user41796

9:51 PM

@Ixrec it's gotten heated before. But those situations were also just as quickly de-escalated

Lightness Races in Orbit

@Ampt Yes. And coffee.

user41796

@LightnessRacesinOrbit Bartek implied they already do have an IRC channel, I thought

Aaron Hall

ok, too much self-examination is bad for the id, let's change the subject.

Ampt

@AaronHall nah, it keeps us in check mostly

Lightness Races in Orbit

@GlenH7 There's a ##loungecpp on Freenode, of which I am currently the sole occupant.

Ixrec

9:52 PM

@Ampt as in ignoring them because them asking us to do their work for them is of no interest to us? or us actually attacking them? (I've never seen the latter, unless you count attempts at constructive criticism)

user41796

@LightnessRacesinOrbit I didn't say I believed him or that I thought it was in use. :-)

Aaron Hall

That was intended to be a funny. Feel free to chuckle.

Ampt

@Ixrec We don't actively attack anyone, but misdirection or general unhelpfulness is the opposite of the purpose of this chat

Lightness Races in Orbit

@AaronHall: I didn't get it. The comma splice is just too distracting.

user41796

@Ampt About the worst we'll say is "good luck to you! let us know how that turns out."

Lightness Races in Orbit

9:53 PM

@Ampt Whereas, over in the Lounge:

in Lounge<C++> on Stack Overflow Chat, 13 mins ago, by Jefery

What the fuck are you talking about Guandaline?

Perfectly commonplace.

Ixrec

what Glen said

user41796

Which really is a polite way of saying eff off. But it's exceedingly polite.

Lightness Races in Orbit

so, this witness protection thing, I get a free house yeah?

Ampt

Also there's always the chance of this turning into a vote brigade

user41796

@LightnessRacesinOrbit We haven't kicked you yet. :-)

Ixrec

9:54 PM

@Ampt you mean that other chatroom specifically for close-voting stuff?

Lightness Races in Orbit

@GlenH7 Why would you kick me? :( I'm your witness!

Ampt

It can be an echo chamber, which is how the lounge got to be the lounge

user41796

And note that any room owner or mod can kick, so... you're doing fine. Happy to have you around.

user41796

@Ixrec I think that's going to become more active again now that we're back to 5 votes to close

Ixrec

was there an actual concern about someone kicking Lightness that I missed?

Ampt

9:55 PM

@Ixrec no :) he's joking

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 I blame the violent nature of C++; it accosts a developer and they all end up carrying on the tradition of abuse... ;)

user41796

@Ixrec No, not at all. I'm teasing

Ixrec

@GlenH7 agreed, the only reason it died was because the three votes thing made it totally unnecessary

Lightness Races in Orbit

@Ixrec I have a concern now!

user41796

Now... kicking Jimmy OTOH...

Ampt

9:56 PM

I've been here for years and I can't recall anyone who actually got kicked for a valid reason

Ixrec

@GlenH7 does Haskell offend you?

user41796

@Ixrec It's not frozen is it?

Lightness Races in Orbit

@Ampt How many got kicked for an invalid reason?

Ampt

@LightnessRacesinOrbit I got kicked once by the system for talking about yogurt

Ixrec

@GlenH7 nope, it's only been inactive for the month of the experiment

Jimmy Hoffa

9:56 PM

@Ixrec he's been living in C/C++ long enough, we wouldn't commit more torture upon the poor soul than he's already had to experience

user41796

@Ixrec No, I have wholeheartedly accepted Haskell deeply into my heart and soul!!!

Ampt

I think I kicked Jimmy once for trolling me in a ridiculous way.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt taught you!

Ampt

Or maybe that was the other way around

user41796

It's not frozen, there's been enough traffic in the CV room to keep it open

Ixrec

9:57 PM

just to up the level of meta: this current discussion is about as heated as I've ever seen this room get

Ampt

This is heated?

user41796

@Ampt It's happened. I've kicked at least one person

Ixrec

@Ampt that's my point

Ampt

@GlenH7 Oh yeah, I remember that guy

user41796

Robert kicked Andy in disguise once too

Ampt

9:57 PM

He got really racist, really quickly

Jimmy Hoffa

haha that'd do it

user41796

<--- intolerant of intolerance. :-)

Lightness Races in Orbit

@Ampt lolgurt

Ampt

I remember because a few people just muted him, but I was trying to help him out when he dropped that bomb

then I was like "Welp, I tried. Flags away!"

user114359

@GlenH7 I am intolerant of meat-based organisms. Only water-based are good.

user41796

9:58 PM

@LightnessRacesinOrbit careful. We never did figure out what caused that one to flag....

Lightness Races in Orbit

@JimmyHoffa currently firing arrows from the battlements of LaTeX castle

@Snowman No ugly bags of mostly water?

user15026

@Ampt I remember that day.

user15026

@GlenH7 I also remember this day.

Ampt

(That was the same day)

user15026

I...have apparently spent more time here than I thought.

Ampt

9:59 PM

at least I think it was

user114359

@LightnessRacesinOrbit I am pretty ugly though...

Lightness Races in Orbit

@Snowman Snow way!

user41796

@AshleyNunn And had I been a mod or if room owners had the ability, I would have kicked that one stalker who tracked you down to here

user114359

My wife disagrees with me, but look at her standards: she married me!

user15026

@GlenH7 Luckily, he's not been a problem in a good long while.

user41796

9:59 PM

But that was years ago

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