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user55340
12:00 AM
 
user55340
^^ good description of questions on SE in general (even though not intended as such)
 
user55340
 
user55340
MMA is apparently what MatheMaticA calls themselves. Its not mixed martial arts. That would be silly.
 
user55340
 
user55340
> Dependency to other modules with requires-keyword implies both compile and run-time dependencies. It will magically build the right classpath. Dependencies are transitive, meaning that by declaring dependency to java.sql module, you get also whatever modules it depends on and so forth. And when we export a package, it means we make all public types available for use by other modules. If you declare a module with no exports, it's not going to be very re-usable.

Versions can be declared and required - although current early access build does not support them yet.
 
user55340
12:20 AM
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
12:37 AM
@Ixrec because, if we don't address it, we can't send it mail or visit it! And then the memory will get lonely! Poor lonely memory with no mail to read :( You would ask it to endure such, it would probably just off itself, then you'd have no memory! None! See what dangers lie ahead??? No, certainly I am in full support of addressing it. Sometimes I address it as "Sir" or "Hey you".
<3 memory
 
user55340
12:52 AM
Kitnip box had 3d glasses for cats in it. My cat refused to even think about wearing them. One of my parents' however...
 
user55340
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@MichaelT yeesh, cats in 3d!? like they aren't scary enough already...
 
user55340
The two hardest things in distributed programming:
2. Exactly-once delivery.
1. Guaranteed order of messages.
2. Exactly-once delivery.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@MichaelT You forgot 3. Not losing messages. oh, wait...
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa You can see his face as "why do these things keep happening to me?"
 
user55340
12:59 AM
The other day, he and his sister were sleeping on a tower (his sister was on the top tier, he was on the lower one). They are both 17 years old. My parents also have two kittens, ~17 weeks old. The kittens were trying to play with his tail and swatting at it. His sister saw the kittens (she doesn't like them) and started swatting... he was getting swatted from above and below and just had this look of "why me" before he got up and left.
 
user55340
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
If you've developed 10K+ of rep participating in Stack Overflow, but deleted posts can still offend your delicate sensibilities... — Robert Harvey ♦ 53 secs ago
 
user55340
1:16 AM
USA Today to make a fake cover for tomorrow's paper: adweek.com/news/advertising-branding/…
 
user55340
 
user55340
(there's a big image behind that one)
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
 
user114359
2:12 AM
@RobertHarvey Done and done. I also left some links that I am sure they will not read.
 
user55340
2:28 AM
@Ixrec Perforce streams make this even more a thing - the "stable and unstable" nature being encoded into the workflow.
 
user55340
 
user55340
The idea with perforce streams is that the files are changing under you without having to merge all the time... this makes reconciliation when it is time to move things to the more stable stream easier.
 
user55340
The more stable stream is to the left, less stable to the right. So you have a workspace that is a child of a (task) stream, which is a child of another stream.
 
user55340
The files that aren't part of your stream are being constantly changed under you (think agileesque ideals) and when something breaks because your isolated files in the stream don't work, then it is easier to fix it now than in a week or so when you merge.
 
user55340
Once your files are stable (the task complete), you promote the changes back up to the parent.
 
enderland
enderland
2:51 AM
@Telastyn the stock is getting obliterated against fighter loadouts though which is really annoying
 
user114359
Shouldn't this be closed as an implementation question? It survived this long and has upvotes...
 
user114359
2
Q: Plotting electrical field lines on a 2d plane

Firo PronchoHow do you plot equipotential electrical field lines on a 2d plot in MATLAB. Would it be best to use either quiver or contourf? Some example points are: p1 = (1,1) with 1 coulomb charge. p2 = (2,2) with 2 coulomb charge. p3 = (3,3) with 3 coulomb charge. All information I've found online to d...

matlab
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
4:14 AM
I see programming blog posts fall into three general categories.
The first category are people who are learning how to program and how to blog at the same time, because both of those things are hip. Their writing is marginal, and their conclusions are dubious.
The second category are people who write very short blog posts because they came up with some insightful little tidbit. They have the seed of a good blog post, but are ultimately unsatisfying because they don't dive deep.
The third category are those folks who are so advanced that I can't understand them, and they make no attempt to simplify their language so that I can.
 
user114359
So... blogs are unfulfilling. That's my conclusion too.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
And then there are those rare bloggers that take the time to be eloquent, know enough to be correct, and insightful enough to dive deep and provide genuine value in their blog posts. Eric Lippert falls into that category; so does Jon Skeet.
But there are so few of them.
I find Scott Hanselman's website valuable, but for a different reason: his podcasts.
 
user114359
Visual Studio 2015 has been installing for the past hour, stuck on one step. I am curious if it is trying to download stuff despite me grabbing the offline installer ISO.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
What kind of hardware do you have?
 
user114359
i7, 8 GB RAM, 500GB+ between two SSDs
 
user114359
4:27 AM
I don't think this is an issue with the computer, I blame the software. Probably blocking on something.
 
user114359
I wish there was a log or something. All I can do is cancel and minimize. Maybe by tomorrow it will be done.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Should take 10 minutes or less to install on that hardware.
 
user114359
Did not take long on my laptop, also an i7 with 8 GB of RAM but no SSD.
 
user114359
It is stuck canceling now. This brings back memories of Windows XP and earlier.
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
11:41 AM
@enderland - stock generally gets obliterated by everything. And fighter load outs are really annoying regardless.
 
 
1 hour later…
Duga
Duga
12:56 PM
Yes its pretty broad - but I think it is a common problem. Whould it be better placed at /programmers/? — Maximilian Kindshofer 25 secs ago
 
enderland
enderland
1:16 PM
Apr 17 at 14:24, by enderland
So it's an internal move, technically a promotion, but... I'm less than optimistic about it being something I want to do long term
well, it's been the six months I wanted to wait before making decisions about this...
 
user41796
1:43 PM
@enderland wimp. :-D
 
user41796
1:54 PM
I hear all of that.
 
user41796
I think the variable you have to consider is your {likely | potential | guaranteed} relocation at the end of the year. If that's going to occur, and it's likely you'll need to look again internally, then riding out 2 - 3 months is nothing
 
enderland
enderland
its still at least a year in this role more though
 
user41796
And when I've been in those circumstances, I try to roll my emotional state back to when I made the decision in the first place. That helps serve as a reminder that grounds me and lets me focus on the bigger priorities
 
user41796
"Yes, I went down that path because of X, Y, and Z. And that was the right decision for then. Now I'm going to continue working on setting myself up for the next opportunity."
 
enderland
enderland
@GlenH7 if I had a comparable offer from the other company in terms of salary/benefits it'd take me about 0.2 seconds to make a decision... (that was an interesting thought exercise)
 
user41796
1:57 PM
@enderland meh, don't read too deeply into corporate speak
 
user41796
Every company has similar language wrapped around internal transfers. It's a lever to prevent underperforming folk from hopping around and never getting caught by the system.
 
user41796
The Whiteboard is the cure for boredom. :-)
 
user41796
brb, time for the AM meeting.
 
enderland
enderland
@GlenH7 yeah. but that's another thing I realized... why the heck am I enjoying this and p.se and then doing work that's only tangentially related when I could actually do the work too...
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
Happy Coffee Day
 
Duga
Duga
2:04 PM
As this is a purely hypothetical question, it may possibly better fit on Programmers: "Programmers Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for professional programmers interested in conceptual questions about software development. It's 100% free." — Jongware 38 secs ago
You don't – I think that would need moderator privileges. Easiest way is to delete this and post a new one on Programmers.se. — Jongware 54 secs ago
 
enderland
enderland
2:51 PM
-1
Q: Non-Contiguous Substrings (Recursion)

user3137951Problem: A non-contiguous substring of String s is a sequence of k >= 0 characters in s, in the order in which they occur in s. For instance, the set of all non-contiguous substring of "abcd" are {a,cd}, {ab,d}, {a,c}, {a,d}, {b,d}. I want to mentioned this is from an assignment (which I complet...

recursion
wow that's a lot of embedded loops/if statements
 
user55340
There is likely a nice bitmap solution to it.
 
user55340
0101, 1001, 1010, 1011, 1101
 
user55340
Btw, might be a good codegolf challenge.
 
enderland
enderland
3:13 PM
The question marked as the answer did not help me, it does not answer my question, I am looking for something very simple and this did not help, sorry — Sam Swift 5 mins ago
ok then, you want someone to write an even more simple MVC explanation than the linked ones??? ugh.
 
user41796
@MichaelT - one more vote to undelete this question Seems like a reasonable enough Q to me
 
deostroll
deostroll
Can anyone explain the need for SMTP handshake? I don't get why we have HELO/EHLO, or MAIL, RCPT, etc...
I mean if we didn't have the protocol what would have been the scenario, problems, etc...
 
user55340
How would you send without a protocol?
 
user55340
Differentiate the commands available?
 
deostroll
deostroll
Normal HTTP as one big dump...
 
user55340
3:20 PM
Detect errors early and not transmit things that won't be delivered?
 
user41796
@deostroll And how would you differentiate that from simply trying to read from /dev/null?
 
user55340
SMTP was created in the days of 110 baud modems.
 
user55340
If I can say "stop, I don't care" a few dozen bytes in rather than a few kilobytes later, that is a big savings on the phone bill.
 
deostroll
deostroll
From a mail server perspective...does RCPT imply that the email has to be copied to that user's "mailbox"?
 
user55340
The delivery says nothing about how it will be delivered. Just that it has that recipient and can accept that message.
 
user55340
3:28 PM
It's quite possible this is just a forward mail proxy that handles sending foo@name.com to f.l@exchange.name.com
 
user55340
For that matter, look at how ! And % are handled.
 
deostroll
deostroll
I understand there is a VRFY command to check if there is a mailbox with the said mail id...I assume thats how most servers would implement it...
But you can bypass that...and actually try to RCPT to a mailbox that is non-existant...what then?
 
user55340
Vrfy is a no op on many servers today.
 
user55340
If the server forwards to another, it doesn't care if the mailbox exists or not. It still can accept the mail.
 
user55340
Aside: I haven't dealt with this in over a decade. You're getting into the specifics and that is server fault domain.
 
user55340
3:35 PM
I can only speak to the rationale behind the protocol design c. 1982
 
deostroll
deostroll
Thats what, I am trying to understand the rationale behind each command...
 
user55340
And once you introduce the bang path, local delivery is something else.
 
user55340
You've read rfc 822 and the related ones?
 
user55340
822 and 821 are key.
 
deostroll
deostroll
The only thing that makes sense - VRFY, NOOP, RSET, DATA - the other are like i don't get what you are trying to say...
 
user55340
3:39 PM
821 describes all of that.
 
enderland
enderland
@psr lol, best custom close reason ever
 
user55340
3:50 PM
11
A: What element of Star Wars is this?

The DocIt's Endor Well, technically speaking: the Forest Moon of Endor and the Sanctuary Moon (Source) Looking at this image below from Return of the Jedi, you'll see the projection of the Death Star II with shielding with Endor being the green planet right next to it

 
user55340
Go read the comments while they are there.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
@MichaelT That's good.
 
enderland
enderland
END[O]Rland approves! — enderland 9 secs ago
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Interesting conversation taking place here. Well, maybe not all that interesting.
If you're referring to folder arrangement, that's largely a matter of taste. It's hard to tell from your title, and questions in your post like "does this make sense" and "is there a better way" don't really hint at the actual problem you're having. — Robert Harvey 21 mins ago
How can anyone expect to function in a profession like programming without the ability to be precise?
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey believe it or not, I run into the same problem with some of the engineers I work with
 
user41796
4:15 PM
I'm writing a singleton to maintain app config information. I'm sure someone will say I've taken a step closer to the darkside.
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
heathen
 
enderland
enderland
@GlenH7 isn't that one of the best use cases for them?
 
user41796
@enderland IMO, yes.
 
user41796
As I need a single source of truth for it, and I don't want the implementation logic about it bleeding out into the rest of the application
 
user41796
@ratchetfreak Thanks. Makes me feel better knowing I was correct in that someone would judge me. :-P
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
4:23 PM
I think most of the hate for certain software patterns like Singleton and static Utility classes comes from the TDD crowd. If it ain't a plain ol' object, it ain't.
 
user41796
Could very well be, yes
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
4:35 PM
Happy Coffee Day
 
enderland
enderland
how do you evaluate startup viability, from a financial perspective, this is all a mess and I obviously can't just take "current assets / burn rate" and get super meaningful info (unles it's like 1 month. lol)
stock price is about the IPO over this year, so that's encouraging
maybe :)
 
user41796
burn rate vs. cash reserves vs recurring revenue.
 
user41796
Offset by your collective reserves and tolerance for risk.
 
user41796
and their revenue stream?
 
enderland
enderland
looks like 140M range/year
they are hiring a ton of people right now, so I'd expect that they forsee profitability in the future but who knows
 
user41796
4:45 PM
That's always the game, isn't it? :-)
 
enderland
enderland
yeah
 
user41796
So more broadly speaking, you want to evaluate reserves versus burn rate. That gives a rough idea of how long the company ought to be able to stick around. Profitable is even better.
 
user41796
Then you want to look at their product. What's the driver behind it? Is that driver going away anytime soon? What's the barrier to entry into the market? What are competitors doing?
 
user41796
What's different now than in the past that kept someone else from already doing this?
 
user41796
@enderland quite likely, but it also shows you did your homework
 
user41796
4:49 PM
startups like employees who think about and look after the business, not just the widget they need to make
 
enderland
enderland
Yeah
Makes sense
 
user41796
Also dig back through previous statements and look for "one-offs" on the balance sheet.
 
user41796
one or two is no big deal. One every other quarter is a bit more disconcerting
 
user41796
If there's always a one-off, that tells me the company can't execute on their plan.
 
enderland
enderland
waht do you mean by one off?
 
user41796
4:52 PM
one time, non-recurring expense
 
enderland
enderland
ahhh, yeah
or "hey we wanted to buy X and it was expensive"
 
user41796
Must be mid-terms based upon the crap questions we've been getting
 
enderland
enderland
no kidding, today has been painful
 
user41796
@enderland yeah, exactly. One or two, no biggie. All the time... problem.
 
user41796
@enderland - another thing to look at is the rate of loss for the company. in other words, are they losing more or less money than before. The key being that they should be losing less and less money as time carries on.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
5:03 PM
some things are universal that you should be wary of for any company under a certain size: Income diversity? Too high a reliance on 2 customers can see a 20 year stable large company's income cut in half because their largest client falls over or changes providers. Property ownership- again if their income is largely trimmings off of reusing or reselling products/services/etc they don't directly own, their financial picture could be less stable than it seems. How are they growing? Customer acqusition, feature/service level increases upping price, increasing current customers repeat purchase…
 
enderland
enderland
@GlenH7 their margin is decreasing a fair bit too, ie losing less percentage wise
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland just some things I like to understand about any company
 
enderland
enderland
@JimmyHoffa yeah. I expect I'll have a lot more of these sorts of questions than most people my age they interview if I go there lol!
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
Is it a new market or is their competition? What's the market size, what's their current share and is their a projectible market equilibrium? Is it a growing or shrinking market?
 
user41796
Someone there in the interviewing process ought to be able to handle those questions. They need folk in their food chain who can explain those things.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
5:06 PM
@GlenH7 if no one there has these things tattooed on their brain already, they have no business running a startup
 
user41796
"Yes, we're stable. Yes, we have enough money for N period of time. Yes, our losses are decreasing. Yes, our sales are increasing greater than our salary base is increasing."
 
enderland
enderland
@JimmyHoffa it's a pretty big startup now, close to 1k employees
 
user41796
Some questions about how they're handling growing pains would be in order too
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland ...startup? Yeesh. That's not a startup, and that's wayyy too much growth wayyy too fast if they are genuinely still in early stages.
 
enderland
enderland
@GlenH7 yeah that's my biggest "how do you handle growing a huge team this fast" concernt
 
user41796
5:07 PM
Small biz -> medium -> large in short order creates quite a bit of strain
 
enderland
enderland
@GlenH7 I've watched this in my friend, who has dealt with being put into a team lead position and having stress from that (but I gather they hire fairly experienced people when needed, so it's not like inmates running the aslyum)
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
how quickly did they increase their head count? and from what? how old are they to begin with? When did they acquire their first customer? I have a hard time believing anybody should be holding a 1k head count without already being profitable for a few years...
 
user41796
My bias is showing - the really experienced folk are turned off by startups due to either perceived ageism or concerns about fitting in with the culture.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
^---yucky cult people at startups. Agreed.
 
user41796
I'd also ask about cultural expectations regarding hours worked. They sound young enough that they'll still willingly burn out employees
 
user41796
5:09 PM
They only stop churning employees when it affects their bottom line
 
user41796
and it takes a long time for that to fully wash out of the culture
 
enderland
enderland
@GlenH7 I think they are doing very, VERY strong efforts to avoid this from what I understand
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
@gnat Thanks for the help. I've flagged to close. — ColBeseder 7 mins ago
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland seriously, how old are they? 1k people is absolute nonsense for a startup.
 
user41796
Which is a good sign. But definitely need to ask
 
enderland
enderland
5:10 PM
@JimmyHoffa 2008 was when they were founded
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
What goes on in people's minds that they'll flag their own question for closure, but they won't delete it themselves?
 
enderland
enderland
so 8 years old?
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey ignorant of site mechanics usually
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland I wouldn't touch this company with a 10 foot pole. No way, nuh-uh, 1k people in 8 years is utterly ridiculous.
they're in for a big downsizing within the next 4 years, big.
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa It's a data point for me, but not necessarily an absolute
 
enderland
enderland
5:13 PM
@JimmyHoffa well to be fair, if I work there for 3 years and get great experience and then get laid off.. meh :P
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@GlenH7 1k in 8 years?? And it was probably actually 6 years because they couldn't have been hiring that much from the start. 1k people that quickly means when the dust settles they're going to find out they've got 40 teams wasting time and money and a mess of people doing overlapping work
 
user41796
I'd apply an exponential for the hiring curve, or at least a linear curve. But it's a lot of people in a short period of time. OTOH, some markets can justify that sort of a growth curve. I'd expect better profitability too, but you can't have everything
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
they're going to have in-fighting between teams because there's no way they've already been organized when 10 of the teams are only 3 months old, and 3 of those teams deal with the lack of organization by not doing anything and hoping no one notices (they won't, how could they notice? They're too busy organizing other teams, hiring other teams, or just not doing anything themselves)
 
enderland
enderland
My feeling is that they are heavily invested into R/D right now (well duh, startupy) but since they have apparently 65% of fortunte 500 companies as customers already, it's probably easy to sell more stuff to them
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@GlenH7 what market could possibly justify that sort of growth? You'd be at the top of the hype curve to justify it, and you're about to have a shitload more competition - likely more efficient competition - if that's true, or people are about to figure out it's hype.
 
user41796
5:16 PM
It would be interesting to see if they've ever been profitable
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa regulatory compliance comes to mind...
 
enderland
enderland
@GlenH7 this company somewhat exists because of government regulation I think
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@GlenH7 yeah, which would mean they're running bonkers inefficient (1k in 8 years!) and they're about to get the crap kicked out of them by someone much cheaper
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
> @Robert can't find that on the Android app. I guess I'll have to use a browser.
 
enderland
enderland
> As of December 31, 2014, we had 953 full-time employees. Our headcount as of December 31, 2014
increased 23% from our headcount as of December 31, 2013
> We experienced revenue growth rates of 32%, 61% and 256% in fiscal 2014, 2013 and 2012,
respectively.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
5:18 PM
@enderland ...they hired almost a person every day...
I'd wonder what their head count partition is; if it's 800 factory workers and 200 office workers it may make sense
 
enderland
enderland
I'd be curious to see a breakdown of that headcount
HA :) yeah. was thinking if it's 20% developers not so bad, if it's 80% uh oh
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland heavy R/D doesn't necessarily mean good for startup, nor is it always likely for startup. Startups are often simple ideas that are somewhat novel and require nearly no research, and are very marketing heavy - many startups live and die by customer acquisition for the first few years and will be far heavier on the sales/marketing side
 
user41796
@enderland So that's another question to add to the list
 
user41796
Wouldn't hurt to skim job postings and get a rough idea of where they're hiring
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
thus why so much of startup culture is ageist and glamorified, they have immense amounts of marketing. R&D companies don't post pictures of all their employees on their public company website, but startups do...
 
user41796
5:22 PM
Could be they're over-staffed in sales. Bad for that group in a downturn, not so bad for other groups
 
enderland
enderland
nearly all their open positions are technical, currently, but that doesn't really indicate anything
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
also worth looking at customer acquisition rate, did they get all their clients in the first 4 years and haven't gained any sense? How nimble is their product development and release situation, a poor PD pipeline will degrade over time and under pressure to where the company can't produce any new product - then they stop gaining customers; then they start losing the ones they have...
 
enderland
enderland
@GlenH7 yeah that's a really key one for "how likely to be laid off in the future"
 
user114359
0
Q: Should there be a migration path to Software Recommendations?

SnowmanSoftware Recommendations is graduating and will soon be a non-beta site! There is a question on their meta about being a migration target: they are asking about other sites such as Super User having a migration path to Software Recommendations. Programmers did not come up there: while I would ex...

discussion migration
 
enderland
enderland
> We have a
broadly diversified customer base; our largest customer represented less than 2% of our revenue in 2014.
We believe that we have exceptional customer satisfaction, as evidenced by our subscription and support
revenue retention rate of 97.0% (excluding add-on seats) for the twelve months ended December 31, 2014.
 
user114359
5:26 PM
I meant to make that question a CW as well as the answers, but did not see a check box for it. Do I need to flag it so a mod can do it?
 
enderland
enderland
hey cool, their 2014 report lists off a bunch of "risk factors" which is aconvienent list of questions to wonder about
 
user41796
> You guys said you were worried about X. How are you managing that currently?
 
user41796
@Snowman yep, easy enough to flag for
 
enderland
enderland
@GlenH7 yup
 
psr
psr
@enderland - You also have to evaluate how bad it would be if you are laid off - you seem to be in a relatively good place financially, so if it isn't too bad for your career it might be less risky for you.
And there can be upside - if people feel you are ready to be promoted, there probably won't be an issue of waiting for a spot. If you have good political skills and that's your goal you can roll the dice. If you just want to code and not be bothered then all that change makes that less likely, and there is less upside for the risk.
 
enderland
enderland
5:35 PM
@psr to be fair, there's no guarantee in my current role I won't be laid off either (though probably less likely but definitely not 0%) - but yeah, we're in a good spot financially (no kids, no house, decent savings--> good)
@psr oh yeah I'm 100% sure this company has a more flexible process for growth/raises/etc than my current gig lol
that's a good point
 
Ampt
Ampt
Happy coffee Day Progs
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Ampt ? who the hell is that? Somebody from one of the Star Wars shows?
 
Ampt
Ampt
@JimmyHoffa ...
 
user114359
@Ampt Obvious troll is obvious ;-)
 
enderland
enderland
@Snowman make it so troll!
oh interesting. their sales/marketting expenses are about 1.2x what their R/D expenses are in last few years
enderland is musing in Whiteboard, feel free to ignore. lol
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
5:44 PM
@enderland like I said, a startup not acquiring customers isn't a startup growing, so.. but still, 8 years a "startup" - They're not a startup. If they're still as chaotic and crazy as a startup (1k in 8 years, probably), they're likely just emulating startups because instability is cool I guess?
 
enderland
enderland
Yeah
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
do they have VC money? Are they public? Private?
 
Ampt
Ampt
Do they have a ping-pong table?
 
user41796
ping-pong is sooooo last year
 
user41796
18 person foosball!
 
enderland
enderland
5:47 PM
@JimmyHoffa I believe VC and now public
 
Ampt
Ampt
these chief obrien comics are hilarious
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland figures, it would take VC influence to do something so stupid as 1k in 8 years. No, I wouldn't get anywhere near that place. But that's me. VCs are like house flippers, they make everything look spotless, but it's all a shoddy facade when the foundation is actually tilted 65 degrees
that's why they do insane things like grow crazily, for appearances. There's no way that many people are actually contributing to the bottom line that quickly
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa That's a better version than what I've seen of human foosball pits
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa erm, excuse me. But that 65 deg tilt is a design feature and was intentional. How could you not see something so obvious?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@GlenH7 sorry, I was just confused by the interesting strut design in the crawl space, I understand now, the deep end is a nice duck pond.
 
user41796
5:54 PM
It's how we got our LEED gold certification...
 
Ampt
Ampt
@GlenH7 I know someone who could get you to platinum.
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
I just thought of a good question, maybe...
 
Ampt
Ampt
maybe you should ask it then
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Ampt somebody's feeling a bit punchy eh?
 
Ampt
Ampt
@JimmyHoffa givin it the ol' 1-2
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
6:04 PM
How's things out there?
Get any bites?
 
Ampt
Ampt
rolling off current project at the end of the month
starting on a new one - where I develop stuff!
it's pretty exciting
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
woo! they're actually going to do it this time, not just messing with you again?
 
Ampt
Ampt
actually
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
neat. and if not, @enderland apparently knows someone who's trying to hire 10 engineers every day
 
enderland
enderland
:P
 
Ampt
Ampt
6:13 PM
what? really?
that's kinda nuts
 
user55340
6:25 PM
58
Q: I was told to hide in another room from an auditor, is this acceptable?

LillyWhen an auditor was inspecting our workplace I was told to go hide in another room from him. I have never, and would never do anything that would create an issue. I find being told to go hide very hard to take and it upsets me. Next time this happens I am going to refuse and tell my boss to take ...

ethics
 
user41796
@MichaelT I thought that was pretty much SOP during an audit
 
user41796
If you haven't been trained to interact with the auditors, you're expected to stay the heck out of sight.
 
user55340
Just the HNQ phrasing.
 
user41796
I need to work on my ability to create click-bait titles
 
user41796
> HALP! I'm living Devops Borat.
 
user55340
6:29 PM
So, for locked question reevaluation-
 
user55340
27
Q: Is Java "dead in the water" as a consequence of Oracle buying Sun and subsequently suing Google

NimChimpskyGoogle has led many useful Java features (guava, gson); now that Oracle has purchased Sun, will it affect its future enhancements and utilization as a development language? What exactly, or even approximately, are the legal ramifications? I thought Java was open source and would therefore remain...

java google oracle
 
user41796
Great for a blog, wouldn't hesitate to cast a VTD
 
user114359
2k views, and locked?
 
user41796
The mortal sin is of course, not enough UPDATE and EDIT statements.
 
user41796
-1 for just plain wrong with "Absolutely not. Far too many companies and people have invested in building Java software for Java to be dead in the water." Just because there are companies invested in Java doesn't mean it's thriving. Java's as dead as dead fish in the dead water. No innovation, what's so ever to the Java language road map. — Sleeper Smith Jun 10 '11 at 4:23
 
user41796
6:37 PM
Smacks of a "Nobody will need more than 640k RAM" type comment.
 
user41796
And you can still see vote splits on locked questions. That's kinda cool
 
user114359
I thought the definition of "thriving" in this context was "people using it, active developer community"
 
psr
psr
We can have a reprise of the dead in the water question.
 
user114359
@psr As the article mentions, Java is open source. Oracle may lose interest (debatable) but anyone else who uses it can keep using it.
 
user55340
Java is deep in the oracle db now. They're not losing interest.
 
user55340
6:45 PM
Prediction: oracle to announce pl/sql move to the jvm.
 
user114359
You can already stuff Java code into Oracle SPs
 
user55340
Yep. Though pl/sql to the jvm would mean you could run it outside the database.
 
user55340
Dump the existing pl/sql machine and just have the jvm internal.
 
user114359
I think some people misunderstand why Oracle bought Sun to get Java. Not to sell Java or control how people use it, but to control it enough that they can integrate it into their own projects.
 
user114359
I think a cloud implementation backed by Oracle DB and Java would be huge
 
user55340
6:49 PM
And to make sure this flaky hardware and os company didn't mess it all up and sell it to Microsoft.
 
Duga
Duga
 
psr
psr
@Snowman I don't spend enough time in the Java world to have much opinion - except to note that Cobol is in the Tiobe top 25, so it appears that even in the worst cases behemoths take a long time to slow to a halt.
 
user55340
Fortran is #22
 
user55340
COBOL is 21. Ada is 27. Logo is 33
 
user114359
7:05 PM
 
user114359
I think every time someone on SO recommends posting on Programmers, the system should reject the comment and put this picture up on the screen.
 
enderland
enderland
7:40 PM
wow this tool converts YY for '15' into 1915. GREAT.
 
durron597
durron597
Happy Coffee Day!
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Happy Coffee Day Centennial.
 
durron597
durron597
So I was looking for places to play Tennis when I get to Seattle
one of them didn't have any membership or joining information on their website (not a good sign)
so I emailed them asking for the scoop
they said that they have two types of membership, Active and Social.
 
enderland
enderland
> Cause
In 2000 the product was coded for this century year, 15 or fifteen years in the future; this time has arrived.
 
durron597
durron597
To be an Active member, the waiting list is 8 or 9 years long.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
7:44 PM
gads it's annoying inverting a graphs direction
from node->parent to node->[children]
 
durron597
durron597
There are other requirements, which also exist for social membership.
To be a social member, you have to know no less than 7 members for a minimum of two years each.
You then have to be sponsored, and a committee of members decides whether you can join.
I should have known when the google plus reviews for the place said nothing about Tennis and instead said things like "This is a great place for a wedding"
(don't ask me why I'm capitalizing Tennis, it just seems like the Thing To do)
They also have a dress code, you can only wear Tennis whites.
 
user41796
Me thinks I'd be looking elsewhere to get my tENNIS fix on
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
haha, welcome to the exclusivity of dense population + high cost of living areas, space is too valuable to be made available publically, and they have to make things extra exclusive to keep everywhere from being shoulder-room-only :/
seattle probably isn't near as bad as many places, but the cost of the place is pretty nuts. Have you figured out an Apt yet? How much you going to be monthing for rent?
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
Not to mention keep the culture - cultured.
 
durron597
durron597
@JimmyHoffa At least 3.
Plus parking.
@GlenH7 No shit. Unfortunately the next closest place is 50% farther away.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
7:51 PM
@AaronHall When people get to choose arbitrarily how to maintain exclusivity just because they have to, of course they're going to put in rules to filter down to a selection of people more similar to themselves. Watch out for the new riche in seattle you'll start finding Suspenders-Required bars :D
 
user41796
@durron597 That stinks, assuming that 50% is a significant difference
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@durron597 ...hahaha ahhh shit wow. I figured you'd try to be further from the city. Crikey I hope they're really paying the crap out of you, being house poor would blow
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
I just want to find a nice casual country club where everyone's just like me.
 
durron597
durron597
@JimmyHoffa I get a lot of life EV out of a short commute.
@GlenH7 It isn't by car, but it is by mass transit.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@durron597 I hear that for sure. Still wow
temporary I suppose, perhaps you'll get your hands on something cheaper after you settle in and get the lay of the land
 
user41796
7:56 PM
@durron597 I'd strongly consider the same if I were in your shoes. Live it up and enjoy
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
or when re-up time rolls around and 3 becomes 4 :D
 
durron597
durron597
 
enderland
enderland
oh speaking of life EV, my relocated place will be THE definition of open office - no one has an assigned desk, just a bunch of docking stations everywhere
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland so sorry...
 
durron597
durron597
I would not call the place "Seattle Tennis Club", I would call it "Seattle Tennis and Country Club", because that's really what it is.
 
whatsisname
whatsisname
7:59 PM
oh man
how do they expect people to actually get shit done without a place to have papers piled up everywhere
 
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