Room for Mathematics Discussion Between novice and EricStucky

You need to define Logic: I am making it dependent on Thought, and say that part of the Thought process which deals with assumptions, conclusions and priortising. Why do I need an axiom for this

Assumption making process is part of logic

So is inference making process, I dont get your question

Eric Stucky

Okay, so an implication of this is that logic is inherently human? Or at least, is the domain of sapient beings?

novice

Hmm, I would not draw it, but since you have said I can think upon it

I have said exactly what I said right, and you are the one drawing conclusions

Eric Stucky

Yes, but you must admit this is a fairly short leap.

To get away from it, you would need to define Thought in a way that was free from sapience.

novice

Yeah, its in the domain of sapient beings

Eric Stucky

okay

novice

11:22 AM

As i said i was thinking about it.......

Eric Stucky

That makes me a little uneasy, but I'll go with it

novice

good

Eric Stucky

Can you give me an example of Logic? I'm having a hard time picturing it.

novice

The sun rises from the East w.r.t Earth - decide on this being true

this decision making process is logic

Eric Stucky

Okay, so let me be naive about this and assume we don't have a lot of scientific explanation for this.

novice

11:24 AM

Could you please read the whole blog? Itll make the discussion much easier ?

You do actually

explanation for what?

Could you be in touch with me

My email id is gupta.nishank.k@gmail.com

Eric Stucky

Unfortunately no.

Perhaps I have overstepped my bounds

novice

Oh....

Eric Stucky

Give me a moment

novice

Please Put the question back on? You must see its not a dumb question

Eric Stucky

Please give me a moment.

novice

11:26 AM

sure

Eric Stucky

Okay, let me say this.

Mathematics, to the extent that practitioners use it, is based on axioms.

novice

okay...

Eric Stucky

If you wish to discuss axiomless logic, you are free to do so.

novice

not really

I just wanted to know about Pi plus Pi

and what goes on behind it

Eric Stucky

But, we have wandered this way.

So have we gone astray, in your mind?

novice

11:28 AM

No, not really

you came to the heart of the question and doubt

But this axiomless logic seems to be powerful enough

to derive the rest? and ask questions about them?

But , you must admit my question was genuine

Eric Stucky

Sure, sure

novice

and should be allowed.....

Eric Stucky

but I am starting to agree that it was not about mathematics, in the scope of MSE.

novice

come on man, pi

and if you can add pi plus pi

Eric Stucky

$pi$ does not mathematics make :P

novice

11:30 AM

Isnt that the core of mathematics

come on the holiest of the holies

Eric Stucky

So

"But this axiomless logic seems to be powerful enough to derive the rest? and ask questions about them?"

novice

I know, we can argue a lot about it

Eric Stucky

This, I think, is a very interesting question.

novice

But I think you should allow the question?

I want it to be read , thats all

Eric Stucky

(Okay, let's get one thing straight: I am not a gatekeeper of anything. I do not speak for the community. Even if I wanted the question back, which I'm not sure I do or I don't, I couldn't make that call. I could put it up to a vote, at best.)

novice

11:33 AM

Thank You.!

Is there a discussion somewhere I can take this?

Eric Stucky

haha

yes, of course

novice

Dont you find the blog and the discussion interesting

Eric Stucky

But I don't know where it is :P

novice

Damn.!!!!!

Eric Stucky

Honestly, no, I don't.

novice

11:34 AM

okay!

Eric Stucky

But it is clear you do

so I was trying to help out :)

novice

yeah,I find it very interesting

Thank You!!!

Could you give it to someone who may find it interesting?

Along with putting it up for a vote.

Eric Stucky

(Actually, I can't put it to a vote; it seems to be deleted permanently.)

novice

And I cant post it again

Eric Stucky

(I don't see why not)

novice

11:36 AM

it was my first question...

rules banned me :P

Eric Stucky

that's not true?

novice

yeah, ok maybe one earlier too

But I cant post more questions

Eric Stucky

ah, I see.

novice

You can do me a huge favor and put reputation points on it or something?

I just want to get this discussed

Eric Stucky

I can, but I will not. It is not the place of MSE to foster open-ended discussion, unfortunately

That's why we're having this conversation in a chat room.

novice

11:38 AM

okay . Sad but thanks

What do you suggest I do with it then ? Please do guide me.

Eric Stucky

Well, I may be able to help a little, though it might not be what you want to hear. But first I need to know:

did you write that blog post?

novice

Yeah I did

Eric Stucky

I was afraid of that :/

novice

Np, I can take it...

I have been rejected everywhere

Eric Stucky

haha, I cannot comment on the blog post

I have not read it

enugh

novice

11:41 AM

yeah, thats the problem, - no one seems to be reading it

when it makes a great deal of sense

Eric Stucky

Unfortunately, sense is not enough :P As a student of mathematics I learned this very slowly.

novice

aha okay!

What to do with it then ?

Eric Stucky

Well, a community has to be interested in it. And that is no easy task, as you already know.

novice

yeah.. true

But It was a legit question and you can just answer this is out of scope?

A lot of these type of questions here

Eric Stucky

Listen, you are not going to change my mind on this one. Yes, it is an real, honest question. Yes, it does not belong on MSE in the form you have presented it and discussed it with me.

novice

11:44 AM

Yeah, okay no problem

But could you do me a favor and bring it to someone's attention?

If you could

Eric Stucky

Yes, and if anyone is interested I will pass along your email as well.

But!

novice

Thank you.

Eric Stucky

Two things:

novice

gupta.nishank.k@gmail.com

sure

Eric Stucky

1) Google 'philosophy forums' and see if you have any luck there. Philosophy is somewhat optional, although I think it is the best fit; it is really "forum" that is the keyword.

novice

11:46 AM

Yeah, I did

that already, - no reponse.. :(

or little response...... too many rules though

Eric Stucky

2) You are going to have to put in much, much more work than you already have if you want your work to get read by academics, and even more if by mathematicians.

novice

Sure, I am ready - please come at me :)

Eric Stucky

At the very least your work needs standard formatting. It also needs proofreading, but that is a waste of time at this early stage.

novice

What is the standard format?

I am unaware of the rules sorry. I am not from academia

Eric Stucky

I don't know? Type it up in microsoft word or something, use paragraphs, drop the wierd things with the {}s.

novice

11:49 AM

oh okay. That all I can do

Eric Stucky

Then, you're going to need to learn vocabulary.

novice

okay

Eric Stucky

You are using the word logic to mean something that is very different from what either standard philosophy or mathematics means by logic.

novice

I will do it, but I need some help

Eric Stucky

And capitalizing the letter is not enough

novice

11:50 AM

oh ok

I will need help, to get farther than this though

Since I would have no idea about standard philosophy or mathematical logic

Eric Stucky

Help will help, that is true.

Then you must read.

novice

ok i do have an idea

but not a complete one ....

Its a huge subject

Eric Stucky

okay, let's hear it :)

novice

I get the gist of godel's incompleteness theorem

but I dont know how he proved it exactly

Eric Stucky

OH NO

NO
NO NO

novice

11:52 AM

and would like to know the details from someone who could guide me

Eric Stucky

This is a HUGE faux pas.

novice

what?

Eric Stucky

Listen

I also want to know about GIT

novice

okay

Eric Stucky

A lot of people don't really understand it; only have a working knowledge of how to use it

novice

11:54 AM

same here im afraid ^^

maybe even less

Eric Stucky

You CANNOT CANNOT CANNOT talk about wanting to understand Godel in the same breath as saying you have some new ideas about the foundations of mathematics

This is 100% guaranteed way that you will never be taken seriously.

novice

what the... why?

Eric Stucky

Yeah, it seems arbitrary

But

novice

okay , if you say so I wont mention it to mathematicians

Eric Stucky

"foundations of mathematics" is a field of philsophy :P

novice

11:55 AM