Ask Ubuntu General Room - 2019-02-06

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Ask Ubuntu Meta

12:08 AM

0

Q: What is considered a community consensus on Meta?

The info of the discussion tag here on Meta reads: The question you're asking is designed to solicit opinions or best-practices on a particular topic, with the goal of reaching community consensus. How do we define “consensus” when it comes to meta discussions? It’s obviously complicated, ...

discussion voting meta

It would be really funny if we were not able to reach consensus on this.

5 hours later…

Ubuntu Questions on U&L

5:14 AM

0

Q: E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution)

i tried to install NASM on ubuntu terminal but couldn't do so. any suggestions??

2 hours later…

Ubuntu Questions on U&L

6:50 AM

0

Q: Is there any option with mount command to give write permission to non-root user

I have to add a new disk to few systems with same specs. I have followed many tutorials to create FS and mount. But I have facing one problem. I want my disk should be mounted at boot time and a specific user "user1" should be able to write in this disk. Is there any option available in mount opt...

linux bash ubuntu permissions mount

1 hour later…

Ubuntu Questions on U&L

7:54 AM

0

Q: Is it possible to triple boot given the following partition state?

I have the following partitions on my drive: I have researched online that it's not possible to have more than 4 primary partitions. I am not sure these are primary partitions, so will I be able to install windows as triple boot, I have Ubuntu and Kali dual booting as of now. If no, what can I d...

ubuntu boot kali-linux dual-boot

1 hour later…

8:59 AM

"I did not vote to reopen it, neither did I solicit reopen votes from my friends, and neither did I launch an argument anywhere that posts about pictures of vegetables on jigsaws anything to do with vegetables at all should be on topic." @Zanna if this is referring to what happened to the question that started this discussion in the first place, (which it is without a doubt), please remove the section.

On the reopen votes, I did not sollicitate to reopen votes whatsoever and the persons who voted to reopen did that on their own judgement. Please don't accuse anyone of anything if you don't like their votes.

-1

A: PROPOSAL: Checklist for addressing questions mentioning non-Ubuntu distributions

We should not change our policy - our scope - in the way you propose. By policy, I mean what dessert said Let’s define “policy” here: For me that’s the set of rules which we as a community act on, it is partially codified on the mentioned help pages, but meta discussions and just-the-way-we...

Ubuntu Questions on U&L

9:15 AM

0

Q: extended root partition debian

I am very new to Debian and Ubuntu. I user to RedHat and Centos. I need to add storage to root partition, and I just don't understand what is happening. My df -h: guy@ubuntu:~$ df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on udev 2.0G 4.0K 2.0G 1%...

debian ubuntu lvm

1 hour later…

10:33 AM

@dessert I doubt we will. The original question is so complex and verbose most people simply won't read it. And then each answer, so far, has read the question is a slightly different way.

Ubuntu Questions on U&L

0

Q: Networking problems: 2 interfaces with 2 gateways, seperated routing tables not working as expected

I have a server, running Ubuntu 16.04.5 LTS with 2 IP addresses on 2 nics: eth0: 192.168.1.5/24, gw 192.168.1.1 eth1: 192.168.2.5/24, gw 192.168.2.1 As I searched here and on Google, in order to make this work I created a second routing table for eth1, which I added the following: /etc/ip...

linux ubuntu networking routing

Hi @terdon ! :) Just read your answer on meta ... you nailed it - good arguments ! :)

thanks :)

11:25 AM

@terdon oh no, I was referring to meta.askubuntu.com/questions/18426/… there

11:40 AM

@dessert Ah, right.

The answer's: it depends, of course. It's basically the sorites paradox. When there's a clear consensus, then it's pretty clear, but there usually isn't so you make a judgement call.

seems like that, yes, but we should at least have a guideline, two upvotes on a single answer can hardly be called consensus IMO

@terdon wow, that’s a nice paradox

:)

12:07 PM

@dessert you mentioned earlier in chat you were willing to remove your cop/pasted answer here: askubuntu.com/questions/1115520/… We have the odd situation now of two, practically identical answers. Please consider removing your answer, given the history of the case.

@JacobVlijm how about merging into one community wiki answer?

I see no reason to. Why not just remove it?

The answers are not really identical: mine adds a link to the usage page of the software’s wiki, uses sh instead of bash etc. pp. I don’t see why removing it should be necessary and in fact it would delete useful content (which I learned is something very important, even more than our scope).

It does seem simpler and fairer to just add the link as an edit to Jacob's answer since yours is essentially a copy of it.

@dessert no, of course not.

12:23 PM

@dessert the main content seems to be identical ... please consider following the suggestion from @fossfreedom and @terdon :)

@JacobVlijm on the other hand, there are more than enough similar "double-content-answers" on the site ... and there are worse things, right ? Also @dessert would loose some points ... which is something you hate too, right ? :D

this really proves my point about time we spend on an (originally) off-topic question while we could do so much more actually beneficial for the site. two moderators and multiple high-rep users spend time on it.

this was not my idea, you folks didn’t want to lose the content of the off-topic question, so I went for it and rewrote the Q&A to preserve it. but ok, let’s delete the oh-so-valuable content, I’m happy to lose some rep if we can then finally move on and do something useful.

@dessert the only reason that question was posted was because you felt the other one somehow remained off topic even after being edited to be on topic. And content is valuable when it is novel, not when it is repeating information already given.

@JacobVlijm thanks for your thoughts on the consensus question :)

maybe I should add that: I hold no grudge against anybody but rather deeply respect every single one of you, let’s keep it professional and unpersonal.

@dessert you are right ... do you now understand what I meant with the "growing amount of negativity" yesterday ? we are humans and (consequently) act like humans, so to concentrate on proper content we need "positive vibrations" - you agree ? :)

@terdon ... which underlines that you are right with your arguments you've provided in your meta post - IMHO at least. :)

1:06 PM

Editing out potentially crucial information is not a way to magically make a question on topic, and OS information can never be undoubtedly irrelevant. Editing out OS information is not enough because the preliminaries on a different OS are different as well, after all that’s exactly why we have the Ubuntu-only policy, which is about OS for good reasons. Is there any policy or community consensus on editing out OS information? If not, why does everybody take as a presumption that this is OK?

@dessert I think the main source of disagreement is that you feel that editing out the OS doesn't change the question, while I feel that editing it out creates a completely new question. It is no longer the original, off topic one, but a new and on topic question abut Ubuntu which we can answer about Ubuntu. The information that was essential to the old question (the one about RedHat) is no longer relevant to the new, edited question since this one is now about Ubuntu.

Editing essentially makes a totally new question.

1:30 PM

@terdon Exactly, now is this your opinion as a user or a policy codified anywhere?

@dessert Opinion, I guess. But it seems to me that it is a fundamental part of the SE model: you judge the current version of a question, not the old ones.

if this is something which is done without any rules or control to which extent it is done then we really need to talk about it and set up rules

If I edit a question so that it is no longer too broad, then the question is fine for the site, right?

This is standard practice.

That's the whole point of allowing people to edit posts.

And the way suggested to get a question reopened: "If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question."

@terdon yes, but in this case you added information to narrow it down (or split questions), in the other case you delete information – that’s not comparable

@dessert Why not? I don't see any difference. And I could just as well have removed information, for example to make it less broad.

All cases where a user edits a question to make in on topic are basically the same idea. I really don't understand why this specific example (of removing mention of another OS to make it on topic) should be different or special.

1:42 PM

that’s a similar case: meta.stackexchange.com/q/293420/371617

I mean, if I change the "what is the best way to foo" question into "how can I foo" to make it not be primarily opinion based, the OP could still complain and say "Waaah! Nooo! I want the BEST method on Ubnutun!" and the answer would be that sorry, but this is a collaborative site and such edits are standard.

So if I change the question to remove mention of Mint, why is that different?

@dessert Not really though since MSE is a special site. There, you can't really ignore the OP.

@terdon oh btw, is this “We don’t care about OP” thingy anyhow official? (Messing a bit with you here, but only a bit.) I get we want people to make it relevant to others, but should we really communicate “Thanks for asking, but it actually doesn’t matter what you think, all we care about are others.”?

@dessert I do, yes. That's why we tend to ignore OPs who rant about how their "personal style" has not been respected because people improved their question.

@terdon it changes the question’s preliminaries in a way that can very well make the whole question superfluous

And why we close questions that are unlikely to help future visitors as too localized.

@dessert I don't understand what you mean by "preliminaries".

But, obviously, if the question's background or whatever is so relevant, then it isn't a good candidate for what we're discussing.

1:52 PM

*prerequisites, sorry

@dessert Then it isn't a good candidate for this sort of thing.

We are only discussing questions that are 100% applicable to Ubuntu. If they aren't, then of course we don't edit them.

@terdon exactly, and I think there’s no way to know if it is for sure, so we should stick to the rule to prohibit it no matter what :)

@dessert That's a circular argument. I am only talking about cases where you do know for sure. If you don't, then don't edit.

@terdon how do you propose to make sure? you didn’t like Serg’s checklist, did you?

@dessert I know.

If I don't know, then I don't even consider it, I just close.

No checklist, no change in scope, no nothing. Only the same as we've always done: experienced users editing to improve questions and make sure they're on topic.

But I, and many others, have used Linux for enough years and enough different distros to know what is common to all. The differences between distributions are really tiny, and the differences between Ubuntu-based distros are almost nonexistent.

Certainly for how the standard tools behave. Hell, you could take a sed solution written in 1976 on AT&T Unix and use it on Ubuntu today.

2:20 PM

@terdon true

@dessert to add to this: when closing I also consider that we are an official support forum so Canonical plays a big part in it. So if someone blatently asks about Mint I close it. If I have a feeling the user does not seem to know Mint is not ontopic and the question does not seem to have a dupe I edit out the off topic part.

2

@terdon well it could be a complete desktop :P

@Rinzwind this.

2:54 PM

@terdon Exactly that ! :)

@Rinzwind "we are an official support forum" ??? I'm always getting told we do NOT provide support and we are NOT a forum ! Did that change now ? :D

AU is recommended by Canonical

@cl-netbox Canonical links to us.

I actually can't find an AU link under the Comunity tab on the Ubuntu site

just an Ubuntu Forums link

Or used to. Yeah.

I thought they did too

2:59 PM

Ha Ha Ha

@TheWanderer They used to, 100%. And it was a pain. I really hope they've removed that!

oh there it is

under Meet

32

Q: Can we improve the path from ubuntu.com to here?

In the time I've spent here, I've noticed a clear difference between AU and the other SE sites I frequent. There seem to be far more bad questions (that show no research effort, don't explain anything about what they need etc) here than in the other sites. I suspect that this is largely because s...

@TheWanderer WHAAAAT? That's even worse! This isn't a place for meeting people!

lol

@dessert One thing I'd indeed like to understand : Why do you insist on the circumstance that a Linux distro version really matters ? Personal experience or technical reasons ?

3:03 PM

@dessert I might have mentioned before, but if don't understand an off-topic question, I VTC. If someone answers an Ubuntu answer,and edits the question, OP sais it works, the q is proven to be generic and I am more than happy to support-vote a reopen.

Exaxtly same with other languages etc, etc.

@cl-netbox Neither, and neither should play the slightest role in a decision as long ranged as this. I simply think we should stick to our scope and not violate our prime policy. After all it’s the one thing defining what we do here. I explain this at length here: meta.askubuntu.com/a/18424/507051.

...Indeed no need for OP to confirm btw. If anyone can confirm an answer works on Ubuntu -> on topic.

3:18 PM

@JacobVlijm but I thought we didn’t care about OP? so you’re saying essentially OP being a non-Ubuntu user should decide whether their question is on-topic or not?

oh, ok, OP doesn’t matter

? No, the opposite

Well, I wouldn't say OP doesn't matter at all. Creating a repository of useful (on-topic) info is one thing, but I'd still see OP leave the building with a working answer if that is possible.

But that is on a personal level.

Hi. I have mounted a usb stick to some path in my file system via /etc/fstab...a particular program has to output files to some path in the usb stick. However, it needs permissions to do that...say that program runs under a user called "foo", I ran the following command: sudo chown foo:foo /media/usbstick/path...this fails...

$ sudo chown motion:motion /media/deo8GBdrv/motion/ -v
chown: changing ownership of '/media/deo8GBdrv/motion/': Operation not permitted
failed to change ownership of '/media/deo8GBdrv/motion/' from pi:pi to motion:motion

here is the output from running that command...

I think ^ it's better to ask that on the main site.

@deostroll check the same as root user : sudo su -l and run the command again. :)

Here is the entry from fstab if it helps

UUID=596D-4265 /media/deo8GBdrv vfat auto,nofail,noatime,users,rw,uid=pi,gid=pi 0 0

3:27 PM

@deostroll Have you tried what I suggested ?

So on mounting user pi has all the permissions to that stick

let me try

Same error

@deostroll usb sticks are sometimes something "special" ... in some cases they don't get treated like "real" disks.

@dessert But why do you think anyone is discussing altering our scope? On the contrary, we are discussing how to alter questions to fit out scope.

@cl-netbox sudo -i, please.

@deostroll Have you asked a question on the site?

@terdon yes sure ... typo ! red hat ... you know :)

If not, please do. Incude the relevant fstab line, and the output of ls -ld /media/ /media/deo8GBdrv/ /media/deo8GBdrv/motion/

3:33 PM

@deostroll Please check again with sudo -i and then run the command

same error

@terdon again : exactly that @dessert ! :)

$ ls -ld /media /media/deo8GBdrv/
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Jun 24  2018 /media
drwxr-xr-x 4 pi   pi   4096 Jan  1  1970 /media/deo8GBdrv/

I guess I must put an entry in fstab for the motion user

@deostroll Could you please ask a question on the site?

@deostroll fstab entry is irrelevant for the command being failing

3:36 PM

It's relevant for the permissions though.

motion is a user created by the installation of a certain package

how do we simulate that user to copy stuff, etc from the command line...(we don't know password or anything, right?)

Hello @deostroll, can you see this?

@terdon yes, of course - but changing the owner of a directory should work nevertheless

I agree with terdon @deostroll ... it would be a good idea to ask on the main site - chances are higher to find a solution ... maybe an usb expert chimes in. :)

ok

Ubuntu Questions on U&L

1

Q: Bash can't find scripts in $PATH

I'm setting up a completely new, fresh Ubuntu 16.04 Minimal system, and have run into a weird problem. Even after adding $HOME/bin to the $PATH, bash can't seem to find any of the scripts in it, at least for root. I have logged out several times and even restarted the machine once. root@Pioneer...

bash ubuntu environment-variables path

3:46 PM

@terdon by editing out-of-scope questions we embrace them and thus broaden our scope: if you may ask about Linux Mint and this is considered on-topic then our scope is not just using Ubuntu, but using Linux Mint as well.

@deostroll Beyond what you want to achieve ... you should investigate the root cause. Installing a package which as a consequence modifies the owner of a directory/disk is more than strange.

@cl-netbox it does not do that...it creates a user

@cl-netbox Canonical uses links to AU so we are official

ubuntu.com/support/community-support :)

@deostroll I know, but why is that user now the owner of your stick ?

@Rinzwind Tell that those ones who always tell/told me that we are not support/forum guys. :D

@dessert Not at all. By editing you change the scope of the question so it is no longer about Mint. Mint is still off topic, it's just that this question is now about Ubuntu, not Mint.

3:50 PM

its not the owner, I manually set it that way. The apps requires a folder (as configuration) where "motion" user is the owner

@cl-netbox well we are not a forum (as in a discussion site) but a Q&A but the general idea stays

so we do a chown motion:motion /foo/bar

@deostroll general idea would be to add user to group

@deostroll try if it works when you (temporarily) do the same on a built-in disk.

@deostroll if you replace /foo/bar by ANYTHING in /etc/ /usr or /lib/ I disagree. Strongly.

A user should not need to change permissions when installing packages. It might be prudent to change a user (like www-date for apache to something) but should not be needed.
1 exception: adding a user to a group (like when you want software to use a device like a camera)

Permissions for a user should always already be as they should be

3:55 PM

Good hints @Rinzwind :)

@terdon logical argumentation (again) - thanks :)

sometimes focusing too much on scopes makes being "blinded by the light" ... :D

Ubuntu Questions on U&L

4:31 PM

1

Q: Writing output of a For Loop to .txt file

#!/bin/bash for i in $(cat containers2.txt); do swift list -A http://sslabapi/auth/v1.0 -U auto02 -K FfiBftkjgS8hnQn79Arj7PiHfvtsgn $i > js.txt done for a in $(cat js.txt); do swift stat -A http://sslabapi/auth/v1.0 -U auto02 -K FfiBftkjgS8hnQn79Arj7PiHfvtsgn $i $a | xarg...

shell-script ubuntu swift

4:54 PM

@dessert curious to your opinion: do you think we should not allow questions by Ubuntu users on AU that would have the exact same answer on another distro?

5:21 PM

@JacobVlijm Hi Jacob ! :) I think we should stop this discussion now ... I guess it won't be possible to convince members like @dessert or @Zanna - time will show how things evolve - correct ? :) IMHO @terdon explained everything concerning the scopes and rules nicely and said what had to be said ...

5:37 PM

@terdon Not at all. By editing out or faking the OS information you pretend that the question is using Ubuntu while it actually is still using Linux Mint, there’s no way to change that. And by accepting questions using Linux Mint instead of closing/migrating them we violate our policy regarding what users may and may not ask here.

@JacobVlijm depends on the q. i can make ontopic q's on AU that would get 0 answers and I would ask on U&L regardless of it being on topic. If a user shows the q took effort in making it and it is about mint and I can guestimate it is also Ubuntu and there is not dupe I would edit it and make on topic. But I can also not disagree if someelse would close it as off topic

@dessert You say that as though there were somehow some meta information attached to the question which defines its OS. There isn't. If I ask about "blue cars" and then you edit and make the question about "red cars", then the question is about "red cars". That it had originally been posted about blue is irrelevant.

@JacobVlijm our scope allows every question about using Ubuntu, other distros don’t matter IMO

This is why editing to make on topic is not at all the same as allowing questions about other distros. We're still only allowing questions about Ubuntu, but simply keeping the choice to edit and make them about Ubuntu even if they weren't originally.

@terdon well this edit changes the question, but my car is still blue no matter what the question says, and exactly like that Linux Mint or any other distro doesn’t magically transform into Ubuntu with an edit

5:41 PM

@dessert Sure, your car may be blue so it is conceivable that an answer for red cars won't work for you, but then you should have thought of that before asking over at the Red Car Posse user group. They only care about red cars, so that's what they will answer about.

If the answer doesn't work for you, go ahead and ask somewhere where they know about blue cars. In the meantime, we have answered the question for everyone else using a red one.

By the way, this cars analogy is pretty good. The chances of an Ubuntu answer not working for Mint and vice versa are about the same as the chances of an answer about blue cars not working for red ones: it is possible, but only for the very superficial stuff :)

@terdon and you’re fine with the Red Car Posse user group not telling me that there’s a Car Posse user group for all colors directly nearby and migrating my question to it, but rather force-edit the question to make it about a red car. well thanks…

Yes. I'm also fine with their telling you, of course. I wonder why you call it force editing though.

if it changes the scope of the question, that’s a force-edit, no?

Not if the answer is the same, no.

ok, and we’re back to the question how one can tell whether the answer is the same :D

where we don’t have a clear policy btw, but rather everybody doing as they think

6:02 PM

But I think @cl-netbox is right, we discussed this by far enough now. Thanks for being so persevering (not sure about English, but this is a good thing in German ;-) )!

user image

@dessert, not trying to convince anyone (well,...) but at least I am trying to find out what we are actually discussing: this Q: askubuntu.com/a/471168/72216 Would this question be different if the original question was [hey, I am on mint, and i have a file structure like this...] <- edited out, in you opinion?

let’s talk about smileys at the end of parenthetical statements :)

Ok, food time...

sorry, I’m exhausted by the discussion, let’s talk about something else

@JacobVlijm bon appetit!

6:52 PM

@dessert Thanks (full stomac now)

2 hours later…

Ubuntu Questions on U&L

8:51 PM

0

Q: KVM Host with multiple static IPs and netplan, ubuntu 18.04 setup for static IP guests

I have dedicated server with Ubuntu 18.04 headless, that is going to be used as KVM Host server. The server was assigned with several static IPv4 addresses. My plan is to use one static IPv4 for Host server and rest IPv4 adresses for guest machines. Server has two ethernet interfaces now bonded ...

ubuntu kvm netplan

1 hour later…

Ubuntu Questions on U&L

9:56 PM

0

Q: Trying to select default config for drivers

How do I do it exactly? I want to use 00-amdgpu.conf. My lshw shows that im using an amdgpu driver but it doesnt tell me which configuration.

linux ubuntu drivers

2 hours later…

Ubuntu Questions on U&L

11:33 PM

0

Q: How to have ubuntu interact with my computer instead of virtual enviornment?

I know very little about I am doing. Years ago I had a job where I needed to use a Linux terminal and now I am using it to relearn it. The line that I type in on Ubuntu looks like this: username@DESKTOP-FOO:~$ when I want it to look like this: username@userPC:~$ How do I fix it? Sorry for th...

linux ubuntu terminal

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