Ask Ubuntu General Room - 2016-06-06 (page 3 of 4)

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8:00 PM

nominations are open!

user139252

Neat!

user139252

To both of those!

@Rinzwind wow. That's a lot :p

> "Your package is being shipped by AMZN"

(in sequence anyway)

@NathanOsman yeah

8:04 PM

Finally! I thought I'd never get the caucus badge

And the election is open. Chat room specifically for election stuff is here. Be nice and nominate yourself if you want to be a moderator. It's fun! :-)

16

caucus?

askubuntu.com/help/badges/107/caucus

@muru how'd you get it?

2 mins ago, by James

And the election is open. Chat room specifically for election stuff is here. Be nice and nominate yourself if you want to be a moderator. It's fun! :-)

Visit link, and presto!

8:07 PM

how much rep do you need to vote?

user139252

150 to vote.

150.

Then how do I vote?

@TheBrownOne You beat me :P

@Zacharee1 wait till nominations are done

8:08 PM

ah

@Zacharee1 Wait until the election phase.

idk how this thing works :p

user139252

My score is bad :(

(Today is not my day...)

85

Q: There's an election going on. What's happening and how does it work?

The community bulletin says that there is a moderator election occurring. How does the election work and how can I get involved? Return to FAQ index

support faq election election-page

8:08 PM

thx

I can't believe @Serg is missing this. :(

@muru Ah thank you!

He's back in 2 days

pcworld.com/article/3078732/linux/…

Sigh...

I mean, I like systemD. it does a lot that we need to change our thinking on.I also despise certain sections of systemD.

user139252

Systemd just kills all of our hopes and dreams.

4

8:17 PM

lol

@TheBrownOne but only if you log out

Ask Ubuntu Meta

2

Q: 2016 Community Moderator Election

The 2016 Community Moderator Election is now underway! Community moderator elections have three phases: Nomination phase Primary phase Election phase Most elections take between two and three weeks, but this depends on how many candidates there are. Please visit the official election page a...

discussion moderators election

1

Q: 2016 Moderator Election Q&A - Question Collection

Like we've done in the past, in connection with the moderator elections, we will be holding a Q&A with the candidates. This will be an opportunity for members of the community to pose questions to the candidates on the topic of moderation. Participation is completely voluntary. Here's how it'l...

discussion featured election

0

Q: I lost 3000+ rep as a reversal

It is possible that someone serially upvoted my posts. I can't see it. But the weird thing is that some of my answers were unaccepted. That is a puzzle. What does this mean?

@TheBrownOne 11/40 is not very good ;=)

@TheBrownOne and puppies.

nvm xD

@NathanOsman we discussed this, remember? :p

8:23 PM

@TheBrownOne damn mine would be 39 :D

@Seth Ooooooh right.

May 29 at 19:12, by Seth

Really though, if some governement or giant corporation wanted to undermine Linux systemd would be the way they did it. I don't think that's the case, but think about it.

user139252

Is it impossible to get elected if your score is bad? D=

"Thanks to a new change, systemd will automatically kill a user’s processes when that user logs out. Previously, it was possible to start long-running processes that remained running, even when you signed out. You could use the tmux, screen, or nohup commands to ensure that a process remained running. Systemd will now kill all those leftover processes to clean things up."

w t f

It's a double-edged sword.

I can see why people are upset though.

8:26 PM

ah there is a way to turn that behaviour off :P that should be default :X

@TheBrownOne not impossible, but hard.

Particularly the moderation badges. Since that's the stuff you will be doing.

user139252

I'll try getting more badges within this next week.

@Seth She is a she... launchpad.net/~hbrown0579

Ask Ubuntu Meta

0

Q: What's the so called maliceous-voting-detection worth if this is happening?

I just got an interesting message that there had been maliceous voting on my account. Minus almost 6000 reputation. Interesting additional question was if I perhaps created an additional account to vote for myself. Seriously? For God's sake I posted this! Please tell me if this is a joke. You c...

0

Q: Can Canonical Landscape be used with Ubuntu-derived distros?

Can Canonical's Landscape systems management tool be used to manage (in whole or in part) Ubuntu-derived distros? In particular, Linux Mint? My hope is that there's enough similarities to allow Landscape to work. Thanks for the help!

is that off topic? borderline ok? or just ok? >:)

8:31 PM

@anonymous2 um.. yes?

@Rinzwind It's ok. Landscape is an Ubuntu product.

but mint aint :=D

user139252

@anonymous2 Really? That explains a lot....

user139252

:P

It explains nothing at all. I'm teasing.

Apparently my score would be 32: data.stackexchange.com/askubuntu/query/298418/…

8:34 PM

@NathanOsman tsk :D I am on 39 >:-D

user139252

I will improve my score!

Why's everyone starting to lose huge amounts of rep?

What do you mean, @Zacharee1?

Well, pilot6 lost 3k, JacobVlijm lost 6k, and apparently more people have too

@Zacharee1 probably a high rep user got deleted

8:36 PM

Jacob's was because of Malicious Activity

Check Meta

or the server check script went tits up >:-D

lol

well, couldn't that be a glitch?

Fabby lost 17k askubuntu.com/users/344926/fabby?tab=topactivity

A.B. 16k

@Rinzwind rebalance...

Christ

Seriously, what is this?

8:42 PM

@Zacharee1 probably pretty easy

Is there a pattern? Did all of them become active after I did? >:D

Is this happening on any other stackexchange sites?

the system probably spotted a pattern between the 4 users.
it might be correct. it might be not. but if for instance A.B. and Fabby upvoted eachother plus pilot6 and jacob. and those 2 also did a fair amount of upvoting of the 1st 2 ...

even if the upvotes are correct the system might pick it up if it is percentage wise higher than normal/

17k thought seems a bit over kill though...that is more rep then I have ever earned...

Pilot6 says that there are around 10 users affected.

8:45 PM

yeah well Jacob has a lot of VERY good answers so I am dubious on what happend

Should it be reported to SE staff?

@anonymous2 I spotted 4 up to now.

@Zacharee1 with the meta posts, they probably have noticed it by now

this is something that could/will alienate people

@Rinzwind /is I think

8:46 PM

@Zacharee1 they will know ;-)

OK

Yep. I hope Jacob doesn't go.

@Zacharee1 naaa Fabby already switched to U+L a while ago

@JacobVlijm you aint leaving >:) I will haunt him down (he lives in my country)

From meta.askubuntu.com/questions/15518/…, I'd say there is a serious risk if the mods don't get to the bottom of this.

it is not a problem for the mods. it is an SE problem ;-)

8:50 PM

Forgive my ignorance.

A bunch of downvotes and upvotes on my questions was reversed.

you too?

But nothing on answers. O.o

now I feel left out :-P

No, it just shows un(up/down)voted

No reversals

8:51 PM

ah

Here, @Rinzwind, if you feel left out, I can crack your account too... Just kidding.

:D

;D

oh you are THAT anonymous?

Be of good cheer, it is not I.

user139252

I wonder what's going on with that script. It doesn't seem fair that these high rep users are losing rep just because... well, because they deserved it from each other.

it is rather simple. let's say we have users #1, #2, #3.
#1 upvotes #2 and #3. #2 upvotes #3 and #1. #3 upvotes #2 and #1.
and they do that in series so they go find that users anwsers and start upvoting in a row to each get to 200k a day ... it will trigger bells.

The system will pick it up at some point. It will take longer if 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10 users are envolved.

user139252

8:58 PM

Yeah, but they weren't doing it with ill-intent.

user139252

They were good questions and answers.

The trouble is that it puts newer users at a disadvantage.

So a new user gives the same answer would get a lower score.

@TheBrownOne i don't know.

I find it hard to get to 200 rep 150 times. The 1st 50 was easy. The last 50 are a real problem due to me not finding good questions enough on a day to get to 200. I need to stay away for a while so AskUbuntu has a few questions I can answer on a day so you all vote me up 20 times

A.B got to 150 times to 200 in 1 year and a few months, That's hard ... not even Oli has it and he made tons of rep

user139252

Hm, that is understandable.

not saying he cheated ;-) but that alone might get flagged as "too much rep in too short of time"

user139252

9:02 PM

Yeah, I'm seeing it now

Anonymous

Hi all... Thought this would be a good place to ask for help

now if the majority of rep came from those 9 other users ... I can see why the system did this. Oh and it would screw over 9 users that might not be aware of this being a problem :P

@onebree the main site would be better :+)

Anonymous

What browser has full html5 playback support? Apparently firefox only does for Youtube, not other sites.

user139252

Chrome seems to not have any issues.

Anonymous

Okay... Because I need to watch screencasts for my math class, and I refuse to install flash.

9:03 PM

@onebree all of them(?) firefox and chrome use the same webkit

@Rinzwind Firefox no use webkit. :P

@muru wrt to your proposed question:

I've reopened this room twice since my election and lurked there, but it always froze very soon. No one was using it. I used it a lot back before I was elected, but then I let it lapse because no one else used it and no moderators lurked.. If we want to reopen it I suggest you start with a meta post.

no? oh thought it did

FF uses gecko :P

@onebree They all do.

fine it uses an animal :-P

Anonymous

9:04 PM

Okay, thanks all. I will get to installing Chrome now

And Chrome technically uses Blink ;)

Anonymous

@Seth Apparently not -- this site says to instll adobe in firefox: screencast.com/t/BDkfoLuEBp

sigh fine fine fine :P

Anonymous

And, reading the help on the site, Screencast.com DOES support HTML5 playback, but says only for Chrome/Safari. not Firefox

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

I lost 42 rep just now :X

9:06 PM

@onebree I should rephrase that. They all support HTML5 video, but they don't all support the same video/audio codecs, so if your site is only using 1 there is a chance some browsers will not support it.

user139252

@onebree some sites use a type of DRM that doesn't work with newer HTML5 playback (Like Hulu). With those sites, your only option is Firefox with an old version of Adobe.

@Seth that's OK, that's just a leading question to see what their views on the close vote queue size is. It gives them an idea about what has been tried.

@muru cool. The question is still good.

Anonymous

Thank you @Seth and @TheBrownOne.

@onebree but it is true chrome usually leads in implimentation of the HTML5 spec

9:07 PM

@Rinzwind finally!

Anonymous

@Seth And Chromium will be the same, right? Because the screencast site asks for Flash on Chrome now, too

@muru looks like upvotes from fabby. on 3 of them he was the last one editing my answer :P

@onebree yes.

Anonymous

Well, let's see if changing user agent, or playing on my phone will help. I do not want Flash

@onebree good attitude :=D

Anonymous

9:09 PM

Here is the help page stating the site supports HTML5:
http://www.screencast.com/help/tutorial.aspx?id=497

@onebree the site is working just fine for mine in Chromium.

oh but it is possible I have flash installed. I can't remember.

Anonymous

How is this link: screencast.com/t/BDkfoLuEBp

wait what link?

okay yeah, it's loading in flash.

Let me try to turn it off.

found it. site does not work in FF or chromium (wants me to install flashplayer)

so seth probably did install it >:-D

9:12 PM

okay disabled the plugin

@muru oh oh -100 now

yeah doesn't work now.

user139252

@onebree Works for me in Chrome

@onebree I'm guessing the uploader of this video did not upload it in a fashion that supports HTML5.

@Rinzwind still climbing? My changes all happened within a minute

user139252

9:13 PM

@Seth @Onebree I haven't installed any Flash plug-in and it seems to be working

user139252

Oh, but hm

@muru yes -130 now

user139252

I right click and it says "Flash"

@TheBrownOne Go to chrome://plugins and make sure the flash extension is disabled.

user139252

Could be the new Flash that's built into Chrome

9:14 PM

@TheBrownOne ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa saviour of the universe!

Anonymous

How do I go about installing flash on ubuntu? ugh

user139252

Yeah, it's loading in Flash.

user139252

@onebree If you don't want to deal with actual Flash, you can install Chrome.

user139252

Chrome has it's own version of Flash built-in

@onebree I believe it is the flashplugin-installer package.

9:15 PM

pepper? :P

Anonymous

Okay, let me install chrome

@muru -170\

Ouch.. Must be going through users one by one. :(

@muru I can handle a -170. If I drop below fossy though ....

I got -40 so far.

9:19 PM

2k drop for you? not going to happen, I think

I don't get much reputation though so I doubt I will go much lower.

what I do find strange: if I have a +80 answer why do they believe an upvote from someone to be invalid even if that user is doing stupid stuff. That does not make the answer bad :P

Anonymous

okay all, thank you for the help

Anonymous

@TheBrownOne - google chrome worked.

Heh, lol. I just went over 200 for the day. And now I see:

9:20 PM

@onebree you are welcome >:-D

Anonymous

I am off to have dinner and work on hw now!

@Rinzwind Haha, thanks :)

user image

@JacobVlijm :D

it has been on -170 for a while now

hey everyone is affected by this. not just you @JacobVlijm ;-)

@muru How did you get that info? I see mine dropping, but I can't tell where.

9:21 PM

@Terrance on your activities page

@Rinzwind you think we can sue shog for serial downvoting?

@Terrance askubuntu.com/users/231142/terrance?tab=reputation

@Rinzwind @muru Ah, thanks guys! :)

@JacobVlijm we can always sue shog. no reason needed

3

ha terrance got -70 :=D

@JacobVlijm I bet he gets paid for every downvote :P

user136984

And I'm back at 10k... :(

9:23 PM

-190 now

@Rinzwind then he is rich by now

user139252

Nope, I get paid for the downvotes.

does a -200 also count for legendary?

user139252

Just so you know.

-70 for me

9:25 PM

@TheBrownOne you know how to get support as a moderator!

@Rinzwind So, why are the unupvotes happening? I believe I missed that part.

user136984

Poor cl-netbox is down to 11k... And Fabby to 15k... Serg has also been affected, but not quite as badly...

user136984

What's going on?

7

A: Exchange votes or favours

I do object however strongly to a structural exchange of favours. Probably just inside the limits of what the system allows and detects. A big issue here is that the system for detecting this has a couple of really basic flaws, which cause it to miss votes on a regular basis and which make i...

@Terrance the automated script caught something

or shog9 decided to investigate due to @JacobVlijm topic on meta >:-D ^^

-210

9:27 PM

@Rinzwind how about undownvotes?

any luck?

@Rinzwind Thanks.

user136984

So almost everyone had been affected by this serial upvoting reversal thing?

I had no clue I was even part of exchanging votes. I wonder how they figured that one out?

@ParanoidPanda no. but lots of people. some got hit with -10k+

@Terrance more likely it was one-sided your way.

9:28 PM

@ParanoidPanda no, but look at the weekly score, go to the lats page...

@Terrance you are not. it was someone else that got caught. they then delete -his/her- up/downvotes

@muru nope

Like Shog said, there is going to be some collateral damage here, but if we want any sort of integrity it has to happen.

It is oli protecting his 1st place. he got scared >:)

@Seth @Rinzwind Ah, thank you for the explanation.

np

we should all blame @JacobVlijm for posting on meta >:-D
in real life the messenger always gets shot so ...

9:30 PM

@Seth Sure, but it still feels unjust if you never "answered" any invitation to take part, and yet you get hammered.

user136984

@JacobVlijm I know... I was just looking at that...

Anonymous

Hi all, new question. Anyone have issues with video playback in an Ubuntu VM>

sorry never used vm for video >:_

Anonymous

I mean, playing a video on youtube does nothing. It says it's playing, but literally nothing happens in that frame

askubuntu.com/users/260935/cl-netbox?tab=topactivity -22k :X

9:33 PM

@Rinzwind I'm catching up! Now at 110!

@Seth and the sad part is that IMO it has been clear for a long time that there were maliceous practices. Correction shouldn't have waited for so long a time :(

So what happened?

user136984

@ByteCommander's been brought down to 13k... That's really mean of the system, he was at like 25k or something wasn't he? The system only removed like 5.5k from me or something so I'm not so badly affected (I only lost the boring ability to protect questions), but this is all rather sad...

oh privileges are revoked too?

@Zacharee1 the script that checks for bad upvoting got adjusted

And that's why all this happened?

9:35 PM

Seems more like the script broke.

^

IMO

@Terrance knowing shog9... not likely

@Rinzwind what about the badges? Won't somebody think of the badges?

@muru I think I read somewhere a long time ago badges stay.

I don't think I've been affected

So none of you guys upvote me at all :p

wait, no

I lost 42

9:36 PM

@Zacharee1 not the massive corrections

Wait, 130

user139252

/me serially upvotes all the people

@Zacharee1 the script is still running. no idea if it runs over the topics by date or by user

130?

Takes me long enough to even earn 70

9:36 PM

Christ

user136984

I've looked at my rep history and it looks like a lot of rep taken away from me and others is to do with accepted answers... So all the rep that was given from me accepting answers from certain people has been removed, even though that was not serial accepting for god sake! Just because I've accepted many answers from the same helpful person for a long time doesn't mean they're fake!

What is this?

user139252

:(

user139252

I've lost...

user139252

125 today.

9:37 PM

I think we're being maliciously unvoted :p

-290

user139252

There goes my 3K privileges.

This … is something we should stop discussing until the script has run its course.

But it's just going to get worse

-30 more

Yep, and talking about it is just going to lead to a lot more pain.

9:38 PM

What the hell is this?

user139252

We'll let it happen, deal with the damage later.

user136984

@muru: You mean its destructive wrath is still going for it?!

Secretly I am already crying in my corner.

@ParanoidPanda I'm losing rep as we speak

user139252

It's probably best if we just put it out of our minds until we see exactly what was done

9:39 PM

@ParanoidPanda we won't see the full deal until tomorrow, I guess.

and for me, hundreds is still a lot

it is what it is :=)

Like accept marks and all are still visible.

@TheBrownOne indeed.

@muru if you click on it it goes away

if this brings me below 5k, I'm done

9:41 PM

-330 :P

user136984

I was thinking about nominating myself for the moderator elections, but after I saw the email on this and my lost rep I thought that was the end up of my reputation (and I don't mean the points) because the email accused me of serial upvoting too... But now that I see everyone basically is getting it, I feel somewhat better about myself and the original prospect I had in mind for the elections... Though I probably won't nominate myself this time around, it seems just too soon...

@ParanoidPanda elections are not about rep points.

@JacobVlijm That just shows the extend to which a) these people went to avoid getting caught and b) the seriousness with which SE treated and investigated the situation.

user136984

@Rinzwind: I know... But a huge reversal like this and an accusation of serial upvoting is not something people normally look for in a moderator...

@JacobVlijm Unfortunately, as you have probably noticed, life is not fair.

user136984

9:44 PM

Anyway, I'm bad at writing big speeches so I can't really apply... :P

@ParanoidPanda nobody knows about it unless you share that info ;-)

Although, tbh, I'm not sure it would be much of a life if everything was 100% fair..

@Seth Thanks, I appreciate

@ParanoidPanda data.stackexchange.com/askubuntu/query/298418/… you have a score of 32 out of 40. If I was you I'd apply. Well that is if you can get a speech off 1 time :+

Either way guys, I think what we should really be thinking right now is: If people went to this extent to get more fake internet points, how much do I care about mine? In the light of eternity, are people going to remember you by how many fake internet points you had? Why are you really here? Are they worth it?

4

9:47 PM

I am here to learn more about Ubuntu and I do that by answering question I investigate the answer for :P
the rep is an expression on how well I do that

user136984

@Rinzwind Well, I haven't been serial upvoting anyone, it's the system which has been serial downvoting everyone! :D

That concludes philosophy with Seth. Hopefully there won't be a next time.

user136984

Wait, the serial upvoting reversal things in my reputation tab, the unacceptance things to do with answers, are they accusing me of serial upvoting or what? I'm getting confused now...

only sad that i had to shorten my nomination post, took me a while

Anonymous

So I am back for a while... I need a sample population of 40+ people for my stats class. What should I do?

Anonymous

9:52 PM

I thought of the Stack Overflow survey, but it was already analyzed and the raw data is not out yet

@Videonauth Thank You for Helping me get Ubuntu running in a VM. and Good Luck!

user139252

Do you have to include published raw data?

@HenryWHHack nice to hear :)

^That was off topic.^

user136984

Well that actually makes me feel a lot better, it doesn't look like I am actually getting accused of serial voting... Phew... :)

user136984

9:58 PM

@Rinzwind: Looks like I was wrong. :)

@ParanoidPanda nooooooooo you where being typically paranoid >:-D

user136984

:D

user136984

Well, then I think I might look into writing this speech, if you think anyone will actually vote for me? :D

well I ended up at -129.

user136984

Poor @cl-netbox seems still to be the worst off...

user136984

10:08 PM

Do you guys think that someone was really serial upvoting us or if the system just went mad?

@Seth not too bad :)

Hi World(z)

@ParanoidPanda ehm like i said above: jacobvlijm posted on meta that there was something fishy going on. shog examined the serial upvoting checking script, found a flaw and ran the script :-)

user136984

Fishy?

Fish: Penguin food

10:11 PM

@Rinzwind already on 200+ for the day

I realise that a few people have lost a truly gut-wrenching amount of reputation, and that isn't too be made light of, but part of me is sad that I didn't have people bulk voting for me.

@muru I am on -320 >:)

@Oli me too! I wish you'd loose 50k >:-D

(Assuming I've been processed, waits for the -32k)

@Rinzwind nah, look at askubuntu.com/reputation - those changes took effect in the past. :D

ehm site is acting up?

user136984

10:17 PM

Why is everything so slow?

kinda

OLI! what did you do to AU?

everyone nominates right now and the rest watches, constantly hitting f5

@Seth You're done? I'm still going and at -370 so far

@Zacharee1 it probably is doing this in order of time not in order of users

10:19 PM

Not by time

I got one unupvote for three answers each and now they each have 2

huh ?

i saw the meta posts, ist this still going on ?

YES

So Users vote for moderators...?

naw, SE said they finished about ~15 mins ago

mhmm -159

10:21 PM

hmm

I'm down 370

Now I'm scared to answer because I know most of the people who upvote my answers are the same few people

@Seth cool

@Seth is this as well meaning to reverse my downvotes O_o i got two votes cast away ....

holy

@Zacharee1 just keep answering :)

I don't want to

user136984

I've lost even more rep now... :(

10:27 PM

undownvote .....

i think this software will screw alot up right now

Anonymous

@TheBrownOne The data does not have to be published, like I could get data from family members or arrange the data myself.

@ParanoidPanda 6k? o_o

user136984

Well, this has not been a very good evening at all is all I can say! :D

user136984

Goodnight all! :)

user136984

Maybe I'll wake up soon and realise that this was all just a bad dream! :D

10:31 PM

You'll wake up to yet another version of the script, which has taken even more rep

time for bed :) c u 2morrow

Anonymous

welp, I am using this dataset:
https://dev.to/ben/the-practical-developer-survey-results-are-in

10:46 PM

This rick roll back of votes screwed me of -261 even if one was undoing a down-vote by me giving me back 1 rep ... so it undoes down-votes as well ? I don't think this should happen those particular two downvotes which got reversed by the system i did for a reason.

Anonymous

Would you all consider yes/no as qualitative or quantitative data? I mean, as a programmer, it is just binary :P

@onebree yes/no is definitively quantitative data, you would a much bigger data set to evaluate proper results as-well as a wider variatee of questions to make a proper picture out of it

Anonymous

Well, for this project (10-weeks long), I need a data set, 1 qualitative, and 2 quantitative vars

Anonymous

I am thinking avout the results I linked above (couple messages back).

Hi

Anonymous

10:52 PM

@Videonauth I want to do text editor (qual), age (quant), and tabs or spaces... Tabs and spaces seems qual at first, but it is a finite set of options you can choose from

Anonymous

If not, I will do age, experience (novice, intermediate, senior), and do you contribute to open source (y/n)

Anonymous

What do you think>

@onebree well questions where you have multiple choices are not black and white decisions so i rather would put them in the qualitative category, but thatssolely my personal opinion. They for sure make a bigger overall picture

Anonymous

If the "multiple choices" are black and white -- yes OR no, tabs OR spaces, is it still qual?

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