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12:40 AM
Changing networking later is always harder.
you will make game design decisions based on how your networking functions
in DbD we are having to retune almost every interaction possible given that Killers now have latency when they used to be the server.
it's taking a team of people full time over a period of months to do this
you do not want to redo networking later, especially on a solo project.
If you are ok with just LAN and how you build that in order to get it built in the first place, that's cool! Just don't expect to be able to change it later.
I would not be this emphatic about it did I not have first-hand experience with it on DbD. I would have previously said, "that sounds like it will suck, but it's possible."
 
user4704
I agree with the above.
 
user4704
Have had similar experiences; it’s always a pain.
 
10:08 AM
hey all
 
how's it going
I tried the link you send the other time to try your project, but I think the game doesn't work
 
The delay of a free Heroku server is about 30 seconds.
I'll host next version's server at home, with port forwarding.
 
Aaah I see!
Is it not possible to play hot-seat? as in without the server?
I gave it a go again and it worked hehe
 
Well, this feature will be in Test Application 4
and also English localization
but I must finish refactoring first
 
10:23 AM
fair enough, looks interesting so far
 
New version has new UI, I even posted it here probably
and some optimizations and bugfixes
try to hit worms with phantom grenades! they are white semi-transparent
Q select LMB throw
 
Ah cool!
have you thought of what to do once you finish the game? where to publish or sell etc
 
I'll publish it in our local social networks, and maybe later I'll invade Facebook. And later maybe there will be a mobile version.
 
Wooh quite ambitious hehe
I've thought of support mobile too, but it's so troublesome :P
 
But I expect legal issues because Worms is a trademark. There is a possibility that I'll have to pay Team17 or redraw worms to not look like worms.
 
10:32 AM
You could always make your own IP, wouldn't that be more fun?
 
hm..
who knows
 
I think it'd be more creative, plus you would have less things to worry about
I mean, making a game is already troublesome enough
 
This is a difficult decision but I can postpone it.
 
nwp
11:37 AM
Make it cute little kittens and add lots of gore.
 
why kittens?
 
I like that
 
nwp
Because they are cute and adorable which produces a nice contrast to splattering them with a bazooka. Maybe you can even incorporate it into the game properly. Give them a liquid power to get through any opening, trap them with a dish with milk, use a mouse to taunt a kitten to move and so on.
Plus lots of cool artwork, emojis and animations potential.
 
This would easily attract new users, as they won't see it as a worms clone, but as something new
 
This will also easily disturb old users
 
11:54 AM
That depends on your target audience to be fair
 
nwp
Should be fine if you keep it cartoony. But I understand if you don't want to use that style. You could go full PG13 and shoot food and once the kittens got enough food they fall asleep. When all your kittens are asleep you lose. That probably causes some gameplay changes such as attacks not exploding but instead attracting kittens and you no longer have destructible terrain in the same way as worms.
The airstrike can be replaced by a bucket of water.
 
To be fair, destructible terrain was one of the fun things about worms
 
nwp
True, but without it level design becomes more meaningful. You can make levers or pressure plates and people can't just torch their way through anymore.
 
Just give them no torches
 
nwp
Then they use grenades/bazookas/supersheep/.... Got to replace all of them if you want to go that route. But it seems like you don't, so it doesn't matter.
You could remove falling damage because that kinda makes sense.
 
12:08 PM
we're overcomplicating things
we can just make the terrain indestructible
or at least part of it
 
nwp
Pfft. Planning like this is fun. After all is planned out I'll abandon the idea anyways :D
 
Off-topic: in your opinion, where is the line between junior and middle, and between middle and senior?
 
nwp
In the talk about compensation with the boss.
 
Do you mean in a company, or experience-wise?
 
nevermind
 
12:24 PM
Does anyone know of a website to find people (probably paid) to try your gaim?
game*
 
I can try for free
 
nwp
People generally try for free. You'd only pay for a proper report and excessive testing.
 
@trollingchar Aww thanks :3
Guess that makes sense, but what if I have a paid game for example? Just distribute free keys for some users?
 
nwp
Give them a key in return for filling out a form at the end or something. Alternatively add spyware into the game and you give out spyware keys. Just make sure people are aware that you are recording their progress and optimize the game around the gathered information later.
 
Giving out keys and filling a form sounds like a good plan
I don't have the best feelings for spyware :/
 
12:31 PM
@TomTsagk just upload it to torrents)))
 
nwp
Don't consider it spyware then. If you are upfront with people and tell them the point of playing the game is for you to gather data, not for them to have fun then it's legitimate. As long as you do it with their consent it's fine. Personally I'd let you record how much I suck in return for getting to play a game for free.
 
@nwp I see your point, but my issue is not with the wording. I just find it pretty weird recording users interactions with a game. I'd much rather have 5-10 testers, let them play, and hear opinions.
I plan to publish one new project around holidays, and I'm not sure yet what approach to follow
 
nwp
It's just as weird as letting thousands of people watch you on twitch or programming on other people's projects. People do the weirdest things for money and I don't think this one is so weird it shouldn't be done.
 
You can let the game record logs and your users send them to you manually
Is this less weird?
 
Yeah but publishing something on twitch has clear consent, programming on other people's project also has clear consent (assuming they want to accept my changes).
But if I just have a pop-up in the beginning with something like "your actions are recorder" most people will just ignore it
I'd rather not record anything inside the game
 
12:40 PM
I don't like recording too. Even if you unchecked the option, are you sure that it is no longer spying?
 
Not to mention the GDPR hassle
I'd much rather not record any data
 
nwp
GDRP has nothing to do with that.
 
If I gather enough information to identify a person, wouldn't that be a massive GDPR violation?
 
nwp
No, identifying people is not illegal.
Anyways, a form probably works nicely. Put questions on what you are interested about and leave a free form field for people to write their review.
 
Yeah, I like this approach, seems simple
 
12:43 PM
About forms. Do not make any fields required. I don't like it.
 
Haha makes sense
So is there a paid service to actually test if a game is also fun? or if it works? Or is it just for finding bugs?
 
nwp
From what I understand the GDPR says people have a right to know and decide what is done with their data. Websites secretly keeping track of users through cookies is not cool, but with a banner that says "We're tracking you and selling your data to advertisers We value your privacy" it's fine. As long as people know what is done and are able to opt out it's ok. Besides that they forced some options on cookies, but that's not your problem.
 
Fair enough
 
omg I have found a possible deadlock
 
nwp
Nice.
Multithreading is just so brain-hurting. Sometimes you think you understand it and then double-check and change your mind and it just keeps going.
 
12:51 PM
It can happen after a check but before acquring the lock, so calling notify_all from the other thread has no effect
@nwp I never think I understand it.
 
nwp
@trollingchar That kinda sounds like double-checked locking where the second check was forgotten. Ouch.
 
I don't know what is double-check exactly but it sounds similar to what I have
there are two checks
 
nwp
In software engineering, double-checked locking (also known as "double-checked locking optimization") is a software design pattern used to reduce the overhead of acquiring a lock by testing the locking criterion (the "lock hint") before acquiring the lock. Locking occurs only if the locking criterion check indicates that locking is required. The pattern, when implemented in some language/hardware combinations, can be unsafe. At times, it can be considered an anti-pattern.It is typically used to reduce locking overhead when implementing "lazy initialization" in a multi-threaded environment,...
 
my case is different, there are condition variables with their spurious wakeups and I can't afford holding two locks at the same time because it's an another guaranteed deadlock
but I know where the critical section is
 
 
2 hours later…
3:26 PM
@Elva Hmm, really? Did they change it lately?
 
No I don't think so
But see for example this chatlog: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/28/minecraft-talk
"11 days later" on the first page
 
3:53 PM
Oh wow! Ok, thanks we'll try this out :D
 

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