Game Development

Damir

12:04 AM

Are you sure you aren't redrawing the building somewhere?

Dave

ill have to show u after my dinner :P

Damir

I'll be asleep by then :P

Dave

calling me fat :O ?

anyway ill @ tag u for when u login if you have gone to bed

unless some one else can explain before ur online again

John McDonald

a screenshot is required. I do not believe this is a z-ordering issue

thelinuxlich

howdy

Dave

12:12 AM

ok doing screenshot now

@JohnMcDonald @Damir here u go

imgur.com/IxokX

to explain the image - the dot is drawn first then the red square.. the second image shows the red square with less opacity so u can see the dot under it

the dot is drawn first cos it reaches that X;Y in my loop before the location of the red sqaure

John McDonald

Ok, well... you need to do some Y ordering, drawing from the bottom of the screen, upward

Dave

but i want the dot "on top" of the red square

so i need to reverse my looping?

John McDonald

well... hmm. thinks

Dave

this is my draw loops

		 for (i=ipos-ct; i < ipos+ct; i++){ // x
		for (j=jpos-ct; j < jpos+ct; j++){  //y

John McDonald

What does the dot represent?

Dave

12:23 AM

i just drew it for example, but lets say it was a tree....

or a flower on the map

John McDonald

why would you want a tree to draw on your building?

Dave

ok fine :P fussy lets say it was a hovering helicopter :P

John McDonald

Well, the solution is different for each scenario

For a helicopter, you need to use Z-ordering

Dave

welll i wanted to do birds flying for example

does z-order exist in a 2D grid ?

John McDonald

ok, Fir birds, helicopters and other things in the air, they should be in a new "layer"

yup, it's just a logical thing

Dave

12:25 AM

well this is my logic....

		 for (i=ipos-ct; i < ipos+ct; i++){ //horizontal
			for (j=jpos-ct; j < jpos+ct; j++){ // vertical

//draw ground tile
//draw building
//draw bird

}}

John McDonald

For example, groundZ = 0, buildingZ = 1, airZ = 2

Damir

You draw everything per-tile?

Dave

how would i do that in my loops tho =/

yeh ..

Damir

How do you draw objects that span multiple tiles?

John McDonald

bbs

Dave

12:27 AM

@damir i only store the X:Y of top left of objects spanning multiple tiles

John McDonald

so you have 2 lists of objects? One for stuff on tiles, and one for things that can span multiple tiles?

Dave

imgur.com/IxokX the tile which is "west" of the 4 red tiles if u imagine a compass is its x:y draw location

they also have dimensions stored in that case 2 by 2

which i use to populate a collision map which is a bit off topic :P

its like this in a sense x:y:width:height

John McDonald

So... normally, you have 1 giant list of things that need to be drawn, and you sort this list first by Z, then by Y. From there, you just iterate through the sorted list and draw each item

If you want helicopters and birds, you will need to add a Z index

Dave

im not following how u would use a Z index on a 2D game =/

John McDonald

7 mins ago, by John McDonald

For example, groundZ = 0, buildingZ = 1, airZ = 2

It's just a number, and all it does is tell your rendering system when to draw the items

Dave

12:33 AM

 for (i=ipos-ct; i < ipos+ct; i++){ //horizontal
			for (j=jpos-ct; j < jpos+ct; j++){ // vertical

for(z = 0; z < 3; z++){
//draw for x:y
}

}}

like that?

Damir

@Dave imgur.com/FS8ot

Is this your origin tile?

The yellow one.

Dave

yeh thats its x:y

Damir

But, doesn't the tile with the dot get drawn first?

Dave

yes it does

Damir

Then that's why it gets covered

John McDonald

12:36 AM

more like:
List<GameObject> allGameObjectsInTheEntireUniverse = new List<GameObject>();
allGameObjectsInTheEntireUniverse.Add(new Building(x, y, 1));
allGameObjectsInTheEntireUniverse.Add(new Bird(x, y, 2));
allGameObjectsInTheEntireUniverse.Add(new Building(x, y, 1));
allGameObjectsInTheEntireUniverse.Add(new Submarine(x, y, -1));
allGameObjectsInTheEntireUniverse.Add(new Flower(x, y, 0)); // draws under buildings
allGameObjectsInTheEntireUniverse.SortByZThenByY();

Damir

If you are going to do it like that, you should use the "backward-most" position.

John McDonald

then:
foreach(GameObject go in allGameObjectsInTheEntireUniverse)
{
    Draw(go);
}

Damir

Reffering to the way you wanted to do it, not John's suggestion.

Dave

u mean loop on Y in reverse ?

@JohnMcDonald thing is that would decrease performance having to re-sort all the time

Damir

No, I mean set the origin for the multiple-tile objects to the tile that gets drawn first

North

Dave

12:39 AM

thats bit more tricky cos canvas drawing always uses top left corner of images

John McDonald

It needs to be done, at a minimum you need to re-sort when stuff moves

There are also sorting algorithms that are really fast for nearly-sorted lists

Dave

is it more efficient than using a window on a window n putting the birds on the window that is over layed the first window ?

John McDonald

I'm not familiar with canvas work, but yeah, that sounds like it's basically the same thing as this Z-index

Dave

well it would be canvas on cavas using html z-index

im surprised u cldnt do sumin similiar in windows apps in C

Damir

@Dave HTML z-index is a good example

Dave

12:45 AM

that might save me sorting them then

Damir

That should give you a feel on how it works

Dave

shld help with performance yay

Damir

But, you might want to implement your own for performance... and EXPERIENCE

Dave

*off topic ... any one played temple run

Damir

I'm not sure how multiple canvases are handled

Dave

12:46 AM

gd point on the experience part

Code Assasssin

samizdat.mines.edu/howto/HowToBeAProgrammer.html#id2791595 GOLDMINE!

nice :)

G'bye folks.

Bye

Neat, here's some animated gifs for various sorting algorithms: sorting-algorithms.com/nearly-sorted-initial-order

Damir

12:54 AM

Gifs? Pfft

There are sorting algorithm dances

lol, that's great

XD

heh, I think I like the quicksort one better:

►

Dave

6 minutes to sort Hungarians into order.. too slow for my taste :P

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

3:37 AM

I got a badge on Superuser that I would've loved to be without. :(

Tumbleweed: Asked a question with no votes, no answers, no comments, and low views for a week.

John McDonald

aww

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

6:26 AM

@John: dl.dropbox.com/u/992656/permanent/TinkerWorX.XNAML.zip

Don't know if it's of any interest, but try it out. I think it's kinda cool, and opens up some useful options for stuff like user interface animation.

Code Assasssin

Im still alive

Gustavo - Gtoknu

8:30 AM

hai

Gajet

@GustavoGtoknu actually I never tried doing anything in esenthel editor

Gustavo - Gtoknu

Really? o.o

Gajet

yep

I did everything using bare code

Gustavo - Gtoknu

i tried compiling the demo code, but it seems it didnt went well..

Gajet

even done two or three 3D projects in esenthel, but I've only imported meshes using code

@GustavoGtoknu what was wrong?

Gustavo - Gtoknu

8:35 AM

error in one of their headers

let me open it again w8

Gajet

hah?

never had an experience like that

Gustavo - Gtoknu

well when i put it to play or debug or build, nothing happens

and i have the msvc path setup

when i tell it to compile with esenthel compiler

i got some errors that i cant copy here haha

Gajet

what about opening project in VC

Gustavo - Gtoknu

error multiple function candidates found,
error unknown memory adress of expression
error cant compile expression

didnt tried it, let's see

Gajet

I didn't have any problem with it's scripting language either, but that might be an installation problem

Gustavo - Gtoknu

8:39 AM

msvc is parsing the project~

compiling, let's see

Liukas

@GustavoGtoknu hi, are there any examples showing how to apply textures for 3D cube using LWJGL?

Gustavo - Gtoknu

@Liukas Yes, there are.

Yay @Gajet, it works! nice rigged mesh on a heightmap

Gajet

and look how short the codes are

Gustavo - Gtoknu

` Physics.create(CSS_MATERIALS, true, L"../../../../Installation/PhysX");`

very easy to setup physics lol

Gajet

exactly, that's why I'm attracted to that engine

it does everything with a single hint

and still let's you customize anything with no boundries

(of course there are some restrictions in free version but still even free version gives you a lot of flexibility)

Gustavo - Gtoknu

8:47 AM

yeah, i can see it :D

Well, it runs at 15~22fps on my pc :/

Gajet

which example? and what is your pc?

Gustavo - Gtoknu

the editor itself

Gajet

editor is really heavy weighted tool!

Gustavo - Gtoknu

core 2 duo @ 2.66GHz & 2.67GHz

Gajet

told you I didn't try running it

Gustavo - Gtoknu

8:50 AM

4GB RAM, 3,19GB available

Onboard Nvidia video card

Gajet

onboard video card might cause problem

Gustavo - Gtoknu

yup, I have to upgrade my pc soon

Gajet

anyway, that screenshot I sent you while ago,

was rendered by this engine

remember 5mil tris @60fps

Gustavo - Gtoknu

looool

Gajet

so I can guaranty it's capable of hard work!

Gustavo - Gtoknu

8:56 AM

brb, gonna eat something :)

back

Gajet

@GustavoGtoknu now that I'm thinking, you eat fast!

Gustavo - Gtoknu

9:12 AM

haha, I usually bring things to my room and eat here :D

Gajet

anyway, I still want someone else to work with the gameengine I'm working with, so learn esenthel.

Gustavo - Gtoknu

wait, wha!1?

Gajet

JUST DO AS I SAY, LEARN HOW TO WORK WITH ESENTHEL :D

Gustavo - Gtoknu

I have my own business going on, maybe later... is okay for you to wait 1 year? :O

Gajet

:D

why no-one likes me :(

Gustavo - Gtoknu

9:19 AM

awww

Kikaimaru

@Gajet Hi, are you here?

Gajet

yep

but not for so long

Kikaimaru

So where did we end with that chest opening? :)

Gajet

the point where I told you in unity you can query all the object around a point

are you by any chance using unity?

Kikaimaru

no

i have my own component framework

how is that method called in unity?

Gajet

9:32 AM

it simply create an sphere an checks it's collision with all objects in physical world

I've got a class to go right now, so I'll be back later

Gustavo - Gtoknu

cya

Liukas

10:10 AM

@GustavoGtoknu can you help me a little?

Gustavo - Gtoknu

10:28 AM

@Liukas no

Gajet

11:28 AM

@Liukas I guess I'll be available in 5 hours, I'll help you by then

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

3:39 PM

@John, Dunno if you've looked at the animation thing yet, but another interesting use would be to control the movement of enemies. In a fixed path tower defense, you'd just have to add the keypoints and then use whatever interpolation you'd like.

Or to control enemies in a top-down scroller. You'd just write out various movement patterns, and then apply them to enemies as you want.

It animates a heck of a bunch of things, even matrices and quaternions.

And of course, as I suggested at first, animating user interface.

I got the idea because I started pondering if it's possible to use some of the XAML framework without using WPF. And apparently it is.

Bane

3:53 PM

Anyone here?

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Nope, we're all gone.

Bane

Great then, you wont mind trying out my game and giving me some feedback? I've posted here yesterday, but only one guy was online :(

http://bljak.org/~jan/index.html

It's here!

John McDonald

@WilliamMindWorXMariager, yeah, I saw it recently and it does look promising

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

@Bane Nothing happens. :)

John McDonald

yeah... nothing is happening for me either

But I did try it out the other day, and here's what I remember thinking:
1) Something about the movement feels... unnatural. Other people mentioned the friction, and that might be part of it
2) The portals fly really slowly, and I also felt they were unnatural

tylerrrr07

4:05 PM

Its working for me

oh snap

lost my box to the hot stuff

John McDonald

I've got a box in the bottom left corner of my browser window, anyone else?

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Me too.

John McDonald

@WilliamMindWorXMariager, are you still using the spritelib?

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

I haven't been rendering anything for a while now, so not at the moment no. :)

John McDonald

ok. I was just wondering if you have started using the "registration points"

So the answer is likely "no"

Bane

4:13 PM

Hi all, I've been afk a bit. What browsers and versions are you using? It works on Firefox and Chrome, I've tested it.

tylerrrr07

I'm in Chrome. Working fine

John McDonald

I'm in FF13

tylerrrr07

But I'm agreeing with Johns points. Movement feels weird. Portals feel weird

and the first stage is just hard

cant get all the stuff

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Also FF13 :)

John McDonald

I was also in FF13 the other day, and it worked. Not this computer though

Bane

4:15 PM

That's strange, I only changed a few things... Also, people said that movement feels weird the other day, I thought I fixed it... Well I have to look into other games to see how movement looks there.

tylerrrr07

One thing I know I would do personally... put jump in a button other than W

I hate pressing "up" for an action like that

John McDonald

hmm, wtf. I have recently noticed that I have a green line along the top and left edges of my game's display area

but... I can draw over it, so it's something I'm doing

Thank goodness I take screenshots fairly regularly. It was introduced when I changed my stars

\o/

tylerrrr07

4:35 PM

\o/

Damir

That's a pretty good idea @JohnMcDonald

Screenshot Version Control

John McDonald

It took me all of like 10 seconds

:D

JMRboosties

can i get some insight on this

im looking to do tile based movement, and right now im trying to find a way to adjust speed

tile based movement means that even if you press right for .01 seconds, you will move one full tile to the right

but if you press and hold it, you should fly to the right as fast as the update cycle can go

tylerrrr07

So every update if the button is pressed move a tile?

Or are there other rules that you want in place as well?

JMRboosties

well thats what i dont want

right now, every update if the button is pressed you move a tile

but that leads to you moving really really fast

tylerrrr07

4:42 PM

"but if you press and hold it, you should fly to the right as fast as the update cycle can go" - sounds like the desired effect?

Damir

@JMRboosties You want to limit the speed of movement?

JMRboosties

*shouldnt

tylerrrr07

this makes more sense :)

JMRboosties

my bad, typo @tylerrrr07 haha

yea, so moving one tile should take .5 seconds or something

tylerrrr07

You can keep track of it via timers or something along those lines

JMRboosties

4:43 PM

so during that time, it doesnt accept movement input

i have access to the gametime variable, could i use that?

tylerrrr07

Yeah its been a while since I've done it so I don't remember specifics but that will do it

I used it so that players could hold down a button and their ship would shoot at a set rate

JMRboosties

right

if they do press and hold the movement keys, you will move continuously, just at a reasonable speed

tylerrrr07

correct

you will probably want the interval to be the same length as your animation

that would come across most natural

JMRboosties

but at the same time, just tapping it even for a fraction of a second will snap you over to the next tile

good idea. i have no idea what that length is though lol

tylerrrr07

Just make it a variable and adjust accordingly :)

JMRboosties

4:46 PM

yea

so should walking be a character state? like when you initiate the movement your character's state goes from idle to walking

hmm

sorry just thinking out loud, im new to game dev so i dont really know what im doin lol

tylerrrr07

Me neither :P

JMRboosties

haha its ok i'll figure it out

John McDonald

5:19 PM

yay, I just released another binary of AO: bitbucket.org/jcpmcdonald/asteroid-outpost/downloads/…

Time for a victory coffee

Gajet

@JohnMcDonald changelog?

JMRboosties

@Gajet ha gajet you have an arabic keyboard thats cool

Gajet

@JMRboosties not arabic, persian!

JMRboosties

oh! my bad

my roommate in college was persian/iranian

Gajet

though persian is just an extention to arabic charset, but anyway you should be corrected!

JMRboosties

5:24 PM

idk the preferred name

Gajet

nice

@JMRboosties did you like his company?

JMRboosties

@Gajet yea he was a cool guy, i say he was persian/iranian but he was american

just of persian/iranian descent

he did speak farsi though

eh, i think it was farsi

John McDonald

@Gajet Rough changelog: cell.stat-life.com/index.php/asteroid-outpost-blog/… Longer List: trello.com/board/asteroid-outpost/4eea54e2c4f63df65d119595 under the list "alpha3"

Gajet

still he had an Iranian blood running in his veins!

JMRboosties

yep!

Gajet

5:27 PM

I'm not sure myself if it's better to use "Farsi" or "Persian" to refer to our language

they basically mean same thing

@JohnMcDonald hah,you rewritten your code!

John McDonald

I explain why

going from distributed code to centralized code does require quite a lot of new code

tylerrrr07

I stumbled across a very strange set of videos.... youtube.com/watch?v=ywWBy6J5gz8&feature=relmfu

Gajet

@john you were a huge fan of refractoring

John McDonald

I am

This was technically refactoring a solution that didn't work (from experience) to one that did the exact same thing, only better

Gajet

I assume it's a rare case I was talking about in which refractoring does not generate good results as expected.

tylerrrr07

5:42 PM

@Gajet do you still want a site?

Gajet

yep

tylerrrr07

Do you have a domain or do you want a subdomain of intellisenseless.com?

Gajet

I can start posting right now, but I don't think I'll be able to update it for at least a week

a subdomain should be fine, specially since I'm not going to pay! :D

@tylerrrr07 I guess just a copy of your home page would me more than enough!

tylerrrr07

What do you want it to be? Gajet.intellisenseless.com?

Gajet

I prefer you name it Battery,

tylerrrr07

5:45 PM

ok

Gajet

since I'm going to release my game with that name

tylerrrr07

And I've got orchard installed as my CMS - do you want that or I know you mentioned wordpress before?

John McDonald

@Gajet What can I say. I salvaged what I could from the old code that was mostly a part of each and every entity, and pulled that out into a new class that was much easier to handle. A large chunk of code needed to be changed and updated. I'm calling it a "rewrite" of the power-grid code (about 300 lines), but there was no select all, delete involved, and it was calculated. I knew this needed to happen sometime. I'm inclined to say this was some "major refactoring"?

Code refactoring

Code refactoring is a "disciplined technique for restructuring an existing body of code, altering its internal structure without changing its external behavior", undertaken in order to improve some of the nonfunctional attributes of the software. Typically, this is done by applying series of "refactorings", each of which is a (usually) tiny change in a computer program's source code that does not modify its functional requirements. Advantages include improved code readability and reduced complexity to improve the maintainability of the source code, as well as a more expressive internal ar...

Gajet

I never do such a thing as select-all, delete

unless I'm participating in some coding competition,

John McDonald

@Gajet Speaking from experience, I wish I had named my domain after myself, instead of basing the domain name around a project

Now I'm mostly stuck with stat-life.com :(

Gajet

5:48 PM

@JohnMcDonald in general I comment out all of existing code and write a new code doing exact same thing line by line, after the new code works as expected I delete all the commented codes

@JohnMcDonald I though it was your ID by some time ago

John McDonald

"Cell" or "cell18189" are my ids

Stat-Life was a project: cell.stat-life.com/index.php/stat-life

Gajet

also note that I'm not actually getting a domain, but a subdomain for existing project.

tylerrrr07

@Gajet Wordpress or Orchard - My home page right now is Orchard so I'm confused about what you want :)

Or any other CMS?

Gajet

actually I don't know about any of those technologies,

tylerrrr07