00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

12:04 AM
Are you sure you aren't redrawing the building somewhere?

ill have to show u after my dinner :P

I'll be asleep by then :P

calling me fat :O ?
anyway ill @ tag u for when u login if you have gone to bed
unless some one else can explain before ur online again

a screenshot is required. I do not believe this is a z-ordering issue

howdy

12:12 AM
ok doing screenshot now
@JohnMcDonald @Damir here u go
to explain the image - the dot is drawn first then the red square.. the second image shows the red square with less opacity so u can see the dot under it
the dot is drawn first cos it reaches that X;Y in my loop before the location of the red sqaure

Ok, well... you need to do some Y ordering, drawing from the bottom of the screen, upward

but i want the dot "on top" of the red square
so i need to reverse my looping?

well... hmm. thinks

this is my draw loops
```		 for (i=ipos-ct; i < ipos+ct; i++){ // x
for (j=jpos-ct; j < jpos+ct; j++){  //y```

What does the dot represent?

12:23 AM
i just drew it for example, but lets say it was a tree....
or a flower on the map

why would you want a tree to draw on your building?

ok fine :P fussy lets say it was a hovering helicopter :P

Well, the solution is different for each scenario
For a helicopter, you need to use Z-ordering

welll i wanted to do birds flying for example
does z-order exist in a 2D grid ?

ok, Fir birds, helicopters and other things in the air, they should be in a new "layer"
yup, it's just a logical thing

12:25 AM
well this is my logic....
```		 for (i=ipos-ct; i < ipos+ct; i++){ //horizontal
for (j=jpos-ct; j < jpos+ct; j++){ // vertical

//draw ground tile
//draw building
//draw bird

}}```

For example, groundZ = 0, buildingZ = 1, airZ = 2

You draw everything per-tile?

how would i do that in my loops tho =/
yeh ..

How do you draw objects that span multiple tiles?

12:27 AM
@damir i only store the X:Y of top left of objects spanning multiple tiles

so you have 2 lists of objects? One for stuff on tiles, and one for things that can span multiple tiles?

imgur.com/IxokX the tile which is "west" of the 4 red tiles if u imagine a compass is its x:y draw location
they also have dimensions stored in that case 2 by 2
which i use to populate a collision map which is a bit off topic :P
its like this in a sense x:y:width:height

So... normally, you have 1 giant list of things that need to be drawn, and you sort this list first by Z, then by Y. From there, you just iterate through the sorted list and draw each item
If you want helicopters and birds, you will need to add a Z index

im not following how u would use a Z index on a 2D game =/

7 mins ago, by John McDonald
For example, groundZ = 0, buildingZ = 1, airZ = 2
It's just a number, and all it does is tell your rendering system when to draw the items

12:33 AM
``` for (i=ipos-ct; i < ipos+ct; i++){ //horizontal
for (j=jpos-ct; j < jpos+ct; j++){ // vertical

for(z = 0; z < 3; z++){
//draw for x:y
}

}}```
like that?

The yellow one.

yeh thats its x:y

But, doesn't the tile with the dot get drawn first?

yes it does

Then that's why it gets covered

12:36 AM
more like:
List<GameObject> allGameObjectsInTheEntireUniverse = new List<GameObject>();
allGameObjectsInTheEntireUniverse.Add(new Flower(x, y, 0)); // draws under buildings
allGameObjectsInTheEntireUniverse.SortByZThenByY();

If you are going to do it like that, you should use the "backward-most" position.

```then:
foreach(GameObject go in allGameObjectsInTheEntireUniverse)
{
Draw(go);
}```

Reffering to the way you wanted to do it, not John's suggestion.

u mean loop on Y in reverse ?
@JohnMcDonald thing is that would decrease performance having to re-sort all the time

No, I mean set the origin for the multiple-tile objects to the tile that gets drawn first
North

12:39 AM
thats bit more tricky cos canvas drawing always uses top left corner of images

It needs to be done, at a minimum you need to re-sort when stuff moves
There are also sorting algorithms that are really fast for nearly-sorted lists

is it more efficient than using a window on a window n putting the birds on the window that is over layed the first window ?

I'm not familiar with canvas work, but yeah, that sounds like it's basically the same thing as this Z-index

well it would be canvas on cavas using html z-index
im surprised u cldnt do sumin similiar in windows apps in C

@Dave HTML z-index is a good example

12:45 AM
that might save me sorting them then

That should give you a feel on how it works

shld help with performance yay

But, you might want to implement your own for performance... and EXPERIENCE

*off topic ... any one played temple run

I'm not sure how multiple canvases are handled

12:46 AM
gd point on the experience part

nice :)

G'bye folks.

Neat, here's some animated gifs for various sorting algorithms: sorting-algorithms.com/nearly-sorted-initial-order

12:54 AM
Gifs? Pfft
There are sorting algorithm dances

lol, that's great

heh, I think I like the quicksort one better:

6 minutes to sort Hungarians into order.. too slow for my taste :P

3 hours later…
3:37 AM
I got a badge on Superuser that I would've loved to be without. :(

3 hours later…
6:26 AM
Don't know if it's of any interest, but try it out. I think it's kinda cool, and opens up some useful options for stuff like user interface animation.

Im still alive

2 hours later…
8:30 AM
hai

@GustavoGtoknu actually I never tried doing anything in esenthel editor

Really? o.o

yep
I did everything using bare code

i tried compiling the demo code, but it seems it didnt went well..

even done two or three 3D projects in esenthel, but I've only imported meshes using code
@GustavoGtoknu what was wrong?

8:35 AM
error in one of their headers
let me open it again w8

hah?
never had an experience like that

well when i put it to play or debug or build, nothing happens
and i have the msvc path setup
when i tell it to compile with esenthel compiler
i got some errors that i cant copy here haha

what about opening project in VC

error multiple function candidates found,
error unknown memory adress of expression
error cant compile expression
didnt tried it, let's see

I didn't have any problem with it's scripting language either, but that might be an installation problem

8:39 AM
msvc is parsing the project~
compiling, let's see

@GustavoGtoknu hi, are there any examples showing how to apply textures for 3D cube using LWJGL?

@Liukas Yes, there are.
Yay @Gajet, it works! nice rigged mesh on a heightmap

and look how short the codes are

` Physics.create(CSS_MATERIALS, true, L"../../../../Installation/PhysX");`
very easy to setup physics lol

exactly, that's why I'm attracted to that engine
it does everything with a single hint
and still let's you customize anything with no boundries
(of course there are some restrictions in free version but still even free version gives you a lot of flexibility)

8:47 AM
yeah, i can see it :D
Well, it runs at 15~22fps on my pc :/

which example? and what is your pc?

the editor itself

editor is really heavy weighted tool!

core 2 duo @ 2.66GHz & 2.67GHz

told you I didn't try running it

8:50 AM
4GB RAM, 3,19GB available
Onboard Nvidia video card

onboard video card might cause problem

yup, I have to upgrade my pc soon

anyway, that screenshot I sent you while ago,
was rendered by this engine
remember 5mil tris @60fps

looool

so I can guaranty it's capable of hard work!

8:56 AM
brb, gonna eat something :)
back

@GustavoGtoknu now that I'm thinking, you eat fast!

9:12 AM
haha, I usually bring things to my room and eat here :D

anyway, I still want someone else to work with the gameengine I'm working with, so learn esenthel.

wait, wha!1?

JUST DO AS I SAY, LEARN HOW TO WORK WITH ESENTHEL :D

I have my own business going on, maybe later... is okay for you to wait 1 year? :O

:D
why no-one likes me :(

9:19 AM
awww

@Gajet Hi, are you here?

yep
but not for so long

So where did we end with that chest opening? :)

the point where I told you in unity you can query all the object around a point
are you by any chance using unity?

no
i have my own component framework
how is that method called in unity?

9:32 AM
it simply create an sphere an checks it's collision with all objects in physical world
I've got a class to go right now, so I'll be back later

10:10 AM
@GustavoGtoknu can you help me a little?

10:28 AM
@Liukas no

11:28 AM
@Liukas I guess I'll be available in 5 hours, I'll help you by then

4 hours later…
3:39 PM
@John, Dunno if you've looked at the animation thing yet, but another interesting use would be to control the movement of enemies. In a fixed path tower defense, you'd just have to add the keypoints and then use whatever interpolation you'd like.
Or to control enemies in a top-down scroller. You'd just write out various movement patterns, and then apply them to enemies as you want.
It animates a heck of a bunch of things, even matrices and quaternions.
And of course, as I suggested at first, animating user interface.
I got the idea because I started pondering if it's possible to use some of the XAML framework without using WPF. And apparently it is.

3:53 PM
Anyone here?

Nope, we're all gone.

Great then, you wont mind trying out my game and giving me some feedback? I've posted here yesterday, but only one guy was online :(
http://bljak.org/~jan/index.html

It's here!

@WilliamMindWorXMariager, yeah, I saw it recently and it does look promising

@Bane Nothing happens. :)

yeah... nothing is happening for me either
But I did try it out the other day, and here's what I remember thinking:
1) Something about the movement feels... unnatural. Other people mentioned the friction, and that might be part of it
2) The portals fly really slowly, and I also felt they were unnatural

4:05 PM
Its working for me
oh snap
lost my box to the hot stuff

I've got a box in the bottom left corner of my browser window, anyone else?

Me too.

@WilliamMindWorXMariager, are you still using the spritelib?

I haven't been rendering anything for a while now, so not at the moment no. :)

ok. I was just wondering if you have started using the "registration points"
So the answer is likely "no"

4:13 PM
Hi all, I've been afk a bit. What browsers and versions are you using? It works on Firefox and Chrome, I've tested it.

I'm in Chrome. Working fine

I'm in FF13

But I'm agreeing with Johns points. Movement feels weird. Portals feel weird
and the first stage is just hard
cant get all the stuff

Also FF13 :)

I was also in FF13 the other day, and it worked. Not this computer though

4:15 PM
That's strange, I only changed a few things... Also, people said that movement feels weird the other day, I thought I fixed it... Well I have to look into other games to see how movement looks there.

One thing I know I would do personally... put jump in a button other than W
I hate pressing "up" for an action like that

hmm, wtf. I have recently noticed that I have a green line along the top and left edges of my game's display area
but... I can draw over it, so it's something I'm doing
Thank goodness I take screenshots fairly regularly. It was introduced when I changed my stars
\o/

4:35 PM
\o/

That's a pretty good idea @JohnMcDonald
Screenshot Version Control

It took me all of like 10 seconds
:D

can i get some insight on this
im looking to do tile based movement, and right now im trying to find a way to adjust speed
tile based movement means that even if you press right for .01 seconds, you will move one full tile to the right
but if you press and hold it, you should fly to the right as fast as the update cycle can go

So every update if the button is pressed move a tile?
Or are there other rules that you want in place as well?

well thats what i dont want
right now, every update if the button is pressed you move a tile
but that leads to you moving really really fast

4:42 PM
"but if you press and hold it, you should fly to the right as fast as the update cycle can go" - sounds like the desired effect?

@JMRboosties You want to limit the speed of movement?

*shouldnt

this makes more sense :)

yea, so moving one tile should take .5 seconds or something

You can keep track of it via timers or something along those lines

4:43 PM
so during that time, it doesnt accept movement input

Yeah its been a while since I've done it so I don't remember specifics but that will do it
I used it so that players could hold down a button and their ship would shoot at a set rate

right
if they do press and hold the movement keys, you will move continuously, just at a reasonable speed

correct
you will probably want the interval to be the same length as your animation
that would come across most natural

but at the same time, just tapping it even for a fraction of a second will snap you over to the next tile
good idea. i have no idea what that length is though lol

Just make it a variable and adjust accordingly :)

4:46 PM
yea
so should walking be a character state? like when you initiate the movement your character's state goes from idle to walking
hmm
sorry just thinking out loud, im new to game dev so i dont really know what im doin lol

Me neither :P

haha its ok i'll figure it out

5:19 PM
Time for a victory coffee

@JohnMcDonald changelog?

@Gajet ha gajet you have an arabic keyboard thats cool

@JMRboosties not arabic, persian!

my roommate in college was persian/iranian

though persian is just an extention to arabic charset, but anyway you should be corrected!

5:24 PM
idk the preferred name

nice
@JMRboosties did you like his company?

@Gajet yea he was a cool guy, i say he was persian/iranian but he was american
just of persian/iranian descent
he did speak farsi though
eh, i think it was farsi

still he had an Iranian blood running in his veins!

yep!

5:27 PM
I'm not sure myself if it's better to use "Farsi" or "Persian" to refer to our language
they basically mean same thing

I explain why
going from distributed code to centralized code does require quite a lot of new code

I stumbled across a very strange set of videos.... youtube.com/watch?v=ywWBy6J5gz8&feature=relmfu

@john you were a huge fan of refractoring

I am
This was technically refactoring a solution that didn't work (from experience) to one that did the exact same thing, only better

I assume it's a rare case I was talking about in which refractoring does not generate good results as expected.

5:42 PM
@Gajet do you still want a site?

yep

Do you have a domain or do you want a subdomain of intellisenseless.com?

I can start posting right now, but I don't think I'll be able to update it for at least a week
a subdomain should be fine, specially since I'm not going to pay! :D

What do you want it to be? Gajet.intellisenseless.com?

I prefer you name it Battery,

5:45 PM
ok

since I'm going to release my game with that name

And I've got orchard installed as my CMS - do you want that or I know you mentioned wordpress before?

@Gajet What can I say. I salvaged what I could from the old code that was mostly a part of each and every entity, and pulled that out into a new class that was much easier to handle. A large chunk of code needed to be changed and updated. I'm calling it a "rewrite" of the power-grid code (about 300 lines), but there was no select all, delete involved, and it was calculated. I knew this needed to happen sometime. I'm inclined to say this was some "major refactoring"?
Code refactoring is a "disciplined technique for restructuring an existing body of code, altering its internal structure without changing its external behavior", undertaken in order to improve some of the nonfunctional attributes of the software. Typically, this is done by applying series of "refactorings", each of which is a (usually) tiny change in a computer program's source code that does not modify its functional requirements. Advantages include improved code readability and reduced complexity to improve the maintainability of the source code, as well as a more expressive internal ar...

I never do such a thing as select-all, delete
unless I'm participating in some coding competition,

@Gajet Speaking from experience, I wish I had named my domain after myself, instead of basing the domain name around a project
Now I'm mostly stuck with stat-life.com :(

5:48 PM
@JohnMcDonald in general I comment out all of existing code and write a new code doing exact same thing line by line, after the new code works as expected I delete all the commented codes
@JohnMcDonald I though it was your ID by some time ago

"Cell" or "cell18189" are my ids
Stat-Life was a project: cell.stat-life.com/index.php/stat-life

also note that I'm not actually getting a domain, but a subdomain for existing project.

@Gajet Wordpress or Orchard - My home page right now is Orchard so I'm confused about what you want :)
Or any other CMS?

actually I don't know about any of those technologies,

Ah ok

5:52 PM
I can just say your home page is fine, and I've seen sites based on wordpress and they looked fine too

I was thinking I'd give you wordpress for hte large community support / add ons /etc

They should hire me as a Rep

Or I could give ya joomla :P

:p It really does depend on what you need. For me, I want pages about my various projects. Does Wordpress allow that?

It does

5:55 PM
Cool

But if you are familiar with Joomla, why switch?

I'm not planning to switch. Gajet is potentially looking for his first CMS

I'm not familiar with anything, but I can almost learn anything in no time, so don't bother with anything fancy!
also I'm pretty sure I won't be using any plugins
I prefer adding features from scratch myself

A couple days ago, I did my best to convince @tylerrrr07 not to do just that

howdy

5:58 PM
@Gajet I think I started by saying something like: Are you making a website, or a game?

If it weren't out of laziness I'd actually do it too :P

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