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12:08 AM
@TheGreatDuck I'll take a look later tonight :)
Sub 500, nice.
@JoshPetrie hmm?
Less than 500 questions left with "engine" tagged on them.
I'll post something about ...
12:14 AM
I don't understand...
I'm planning work ahead of time, hehe
@AlexandreVaillancourt "post something about technique"... What do you mean?
@TheGreatDuck The "engine" tag was blacklisted recently. There were 900+ questions using it; removing it from all of them is a slow process.
Probably the "technique" tag.
@JoshPetrie yeah, I got that. I'm referring to the other comment.
12:16 AM
Which is a bad (meta) tag and needs to get axed as well.
@JoshPetrie ya think?
oh dear, that's quite the meta tag.
I'll post something in meta about that tag; I don't think it''s a useful tag but maybe I'm missing something...
@doppelgreener which one?
this one
On Role-playing Games we've kept "gm-techniques" as a tag for "things the GM does" because we need that catch-all, but this one doesn't have that subject constraint
12:19 AM
@doppelgreener meta isn't a word I'd use to describe it.
Overly broad then. A supertag that could apply to almost all questions. A technique is just a way of doing a thing, and "ways of doing things" is what Q&A sites cover in general.
Kinda like the [rules] tag we blacklisted & burninated on RPG SE.
It's more important to tag with what the thing is you need techniques for.
of course
but meta means self-referencing
which it isn't doing
Which seems to be the case for the questions with techniques!
that's a real stretch
The doc of the site uses "meta tag" to describe the tags that don't really describe the issue covered by the question.
12:23 AM
"meta" is used in the sense of "more comprehensive" or "transcendental"
that's a horrible use of the term
That's nice.
That is still how the term is used on SE in reference to "meta tag."
it's a misuse of the word meta
I'm not really interested in arguing the etymology of the term.
@AlexandreVaillancourt Have you been making pre-emptive removals of stuff like "api" and "library" as well?
I haven't really followed the discussion on that meta thread but I'm fairly certain it's going to reach a similar consensus.
So I've been excising them.
There's an explanation of meta tags here which kind of explains in what sense we're using that name.
12:28 AM
@JoshPetrie I have removed those I encountered when removing 'engine'.
@JoshPetrie I'm referring to the dictionary definition, not an etymology.
@doppelgreener so they're meta because we discuss them on meta? That's... silly.
It is what it is.
@doppelgreener Do you use community wiki at all, btw?
(On your site.)
Shog's reference to it in one of the quotes on that thread reminded me I've been trying to come up with a good use-case for it here, and failing
community wiki is good for when people just want content that others can edit and improve later on
or for if people don't want answers attributed to them in terms of rep and whatnot
@JoshPetrie Not any more. We decided it was pointless for just about any purpose we could imagine.
A: How should we use Community Wiki, Part III

DuckTapeAlCommunity Wiki seems pointless. After reading through the history of CW on RPG.SE, and the blog post about CW, it seems like there really isn't much use for Community Wiki here. The main arguments that I have for this actually come straight from that blog post: If a question is valuable eno...

12:33 AM
like if they got the answer from other people's comments and stuff
I mean for questions.
Making an answer CW because you don't want the rep attribution is reasonable.
@TheGreatDuck Well the thing is we can already do that even if it's not CW, thanks to suggested edits, so that one's gone too.
Yeah, the only reason to CW an answer is to divest the reputation.
Transforming questions into CW is a mod thing that we don't really do any more, but the feature still exists. Most arguments for it, on this site, have boiled down to effectively trying to use it to keep otherwise off-topic questions around.
@doppelgreener if one is compiling old comments into an answer, then... it is really inappropriate to claim the positive rep.
That's arguable.
Certainly people feel that way, but others feel like doing the work to compile and write up the answer is justification enough.
(And also you're subjecting yourself to the possibility of negative rep as well, so)
12:36 AM
@TheGreatDuck If all they're doing is compiling comments without editing, it's probably a crap answer. If they're revising it to be a suitable answer, then they get the rep for that. The people who left material lying around in comments lose out, too bad, they should've posted an actual answer.
Likewise I don't expect anyone to disown reputation for improvements people suggested to their post, so getting rep for things other people commented is normal. So is updating your post to reflect things other answers have brought up, so getting rep for things posted anywhere is normal.
@doppelgreener I'm referring to places like Math.se where sometimes people post the actual answer in a comment and (years later) there is a specific group that is a subset of the site dedicated to turning these old answers into actual answers to clear out the unanswered sections.
@TheGreatDuck Good. Give them the rep for doing that. Sucks to be the person who didn't bother writing a proper answer.
Too bad, finders keepers, etc.
@doppelgreener meta posts say otherwise.
I don't care though.
sorry, but the community prerogative is the community prerogative.
12:38 AM
Which community though?
plus, most of the people doing that are moderators
Sorry, there isn't a SE community prerogative on this.
SE isn't just one community, and the acceptability of converting comments to answers varies widely.
all communities are SE
Each site works this stuff out on their own and determines what works for them.
12:39 AM
Yeah; we certainly have no particular compunction allowing people to convert commentary to answers here (Game Development). We encourage it, really.
On RPG.SE we have zero tolerance for answers in comments, delete them without question, and are fine with people pinching that material for an answer (if it's any good, in fact, we encourage it).
fair enough, but I don't see how telling people not to ever use a feature is at all reasonable. It's their post and their choice...
(There's links in that post. Which reminds me to go install the link color script on this PC...)
Who is saying not to use a feature?
@doppelgreener I'm not referring to complete answers. Just comments maybe giving a hint or something.
12:41 AM
@TheGreatDuck We delete those on RPG.SE too.
@doppelgreener I'd love to be more aggressive about that here.
that's ridiculous
But I don't have the manpower.
And the backlog is huge.
if a question is nothing more than homework or something than a comment is what should be posted...
I can't imagine RPG.SE has too much trouble with homework questions.
12:42 AM
@JoshPetrie RPG is explicitly banning community wiki.
@JoshPetrie oh
nvmd then
@TheGreatDuck For questions.
Even if we did, we'd still delete comments attempting to leave hints on questions.
(at least as far I read in the answer)
Community wiki questions are not a feature users have.
Specifically conversion-to-wiki. Maybe they can still initially post as such. I dunno.
oh so it's an agreement amongst mods
@TheGreatDuck We did not ban them. We just decided we don't have any scenario in which we should use them. We won't ever CW a question, and we don't see any scenario under which an answer "should" be CW.
12:44 AM
Mostly it's an agreement (or at least a consensus) among the community.
(The site-specific community, not the SE-wide community per se.)
i thought you were going to delete anything from the past that is CW due to a bug or something
(Maybe there is a network consensus reflected on Meta SE but I don't spend enough time there.)
as in all CW is being removed.
12:45 AM
We almost never delete things.
As a general rule.
what about when the harddrive fills up?
Usually the stuff that is considered delete-able deletes itself automatically
The site is text and the images are hosted on imgur ...
Storage space is ludicrously cheap. It is just about the single cheapest thing websites can get in droves.
12:49 AM
@doppelgreener I'm concerned about the 32 bit virtual memory space filling up and the site literally running out of memory indices to store memory.
then you cannot purchase more memory
you've ran out of addressing space
safe to say we do not personally have to be concerned about that
i meant what does se do?
Either you're trolling or you're a time traveller from 2002
you are worrying unnecessarily
12:51 AM
64 bit
There's this thing called 64bits processors now.
The site is (a) most likely hosted on 64 bit machines
@StephaneHockenhull typo.
And (b) does not need to be kept completely resident in memory all at once on any one machine
64bit of text questions/answers, even if the whole site was held in memory it's going to take a while to fill that address space.
12:53 AM
I wouldn't be too sure of that. Millions of people use this site. And we can all type pretty fast.
but fair enough
I am very sure of that.
There's way more than one machine powering StackExchange.
I was referring to @StephaneHockenhull
@JoshPetrie that still doesn't fix the addressing issue. One still has to be able to get a pointer to that memory index.
@TheGreatDuck It doesn't have to be a linear index like that.
12:56 AM
good point
For example, you can keep the all the data on a disk that has such restrictions.
Or multiple disks.
Now you can use one 64-bit "address" (number) to refer to which of the many, many disks the data is on.
I work in professional web development. Google has indexed the entire internet. The Internet Archive has archived a goodly portion of it. Big Data is a thing; that is about specifically storing and working with so much stuff that ordinary computing techniques can't handle it -- and it's a field decades old and very advanced. Memory is cheap. Space is cheap. Virtual memory space is not even relevant to this kind of data storage let alone a limitation.
And another to refer where, within that disk, the data is.
That kind of segmented addressing mechanism is how you overcome many storage limitations like this for "big data" problems.
Also how we used to overcome in the dark ages when 16-bit machines were the new hotness.
actually they overcame the old spaces by upgrading the fundamental hardware
granted, that's a technique good for PC applications
probably irrelevant for servers.
...no, not entirely
Before there was new hardware to upgrade to, we used segmented memory systems to effectively address more data than was directly possible.
1:01 AM
16-bit Windows with its near and far pointers was a thing for quite a while before 32-bit hardware was even available for it to run on.
Even if it was hosted on a 1st gen AMD 64 with 48bits of virtual address space that's 140737488400000 bytes ( 2^47 because one half is used by the OS kernel ).

at a high of 84WPM (5 characters each) that's 420 chars/minutes.

So it'd take one person, 637536 years non-stop of typing to fill 47bits of address space.

Even if we factor in cut&pasting and all the data management overhead it's not going to fill up any time soon.
There are production systems in use today that have segmented memory architectures.
well whatever
@StephaneHockenhull Nice, I thought about doing that math but then I decided I was lazy.
1:03 AM
I think we're beating the dead horse at this point. :p
@JoshPetrie you good with game maker?
Never used it.
And 14.59 years for 1 person to fill up a 32bit address space (3GB user / 1GB kernel split)
@JoshPetrie I thought maybe you could help with this. gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/142003/…
I feel like it should be easy yet I just don't see it.
1:09 AM
fair enough
docs are hard to find stuff in
It's more that I don't understand the boundaries of the problem from the question.
Yes. What the problem is, why it's a problem, what the constraints on the solution are. Et cetera.
what is unclear?
Basically I find your problem to be unclear.
1:11 AM
specifically what
I don't know what you are trying to do, or why, or what you're having trouble with.
Other than the fact that you want to "pass arguments" to a thing that doesn't apparently accept them.
what more detail would you need than that?
I'm asking how to do a very specific thing? Why do you need to know why I need to it or for what purposes? That's irrelevant.
Is it?
I'm asking how to do something.
A: What is the XY problem?

GnomeWhat is it? The XY problem is asking about your attempted solution rather than your actual problem. That is, you are trying to solve problem X, and you think solution Y would work, but instead of asking about X when you run into trouble, you ask about Y. The Problem This can lead to frustrati...

1:14 AM
The answer is to call the execute_string function after enabling the context passing register in the settings file.
Do you know what the context passing register is?
you're just making shit up.
Yes I am.
Because I don't understand the domain of the problem.
that's not relevant
I'm asking how to pass arguments when executing a string.
because I want to pass arguments to string when I execute them
there is no underlying problem.
I'm just asking about a feature.
1:16 AM
Right. A feature that I know nothing about.
And it's my job to explain the entire language to you?
so why are you saying my question is flawed?
I didn't say it was flawed, I said I found it unclear.
Since I know nothing about the feature, I can't help you unless I know instead something about the reasons why you might want to do this, or what you can or can't consider valid solutions, etc. Then I might be able to speculate or make an educated guess by poking in a particular direction.
unclear as in off topic and immediately needing to be closed and deleted
1:17 AM
Obviously not.
unclear is a reason to close...
"Unclear" isn't a binary state.
Unclear does not mean off topic, unclear does not necessarily mean it's going to get closed, closed questions don't necessarily get deleted.
@JoshPetrie that's not the same as a vague question. That's just not knowing how to answer it.
If I thought your question was so unclear as to be unanswerable by anybody I would have closed it instead when I edited the tags.
But I don't think it's unclear enough to close.
I think it's unclear enough for me to be able to provide any kind of reasonable guideance.
1:18 AM
fair enough
I have a very low-tolerance policy on unclearness.
personally speaking
I think the way you've worded the question requires an answer from somebody with fairly extensive Game Maker knowledge. I have almost no knowledge of it, having mostly only poked around in documentation.
@JoshPetrie umm... it's a matter of just finding a different variant of the function
@TheGreatDuck I don't like answering questions like that.
Can I suggest that we move past this conversation, because I'm not sure what is being sought after at this point.
(other than an answer from someone who is declining to provide one)
Hm, I wanted to get under 475 engine tagged questions today
But I think I'm just going to take the easy way out and remove five more from closed questions.
Much less work involved.
1:27 AM
@JoshPetrie fair enough. It's hard to find even competent users of the engine. I'm finding weird shoddy answers all over the place. I might make a meta post soon if this continues. People clearly don't know how it works.
2:00 AM
I'm not sure why you'd need to make a meta post for that; if answers are wrong, downvote them, leave a comment explaining why, and move on
It seems like almost all of the posts regarding game maker are flawed
and that's not an exaggeration.
And or write a better answer
You misunderstand. I don't have time to write nearly 300 replacement answers.
I was thinking of maybe trying to see if people could start cleaning it up. :p
I mean, I would understand if it were just a few, but most of the answers blatantly ignore the languages rules altogether claiming things like "These things about scope are true in all languages ever written".
it's almost like people are doing it on purpose. Or maybe the users of that engine are just a bunch of amateurs who don't know how stuff works. Ugh.
2:33 AM
@TheGreatDuck You can't propose work to be done on the site if you're not ready to do it yourself. E.g If you think a tag should be removed, you have to be ready to go through all the questions and remove it yourself. If you ask people to be cleaner about game-maker, well you'll have to be prepared to clean up the tag yourself...
@AlexandreVaillancourt You completely misunderstand. I'm conjecturing that literally everyone on this site is being completely incompetent.
@StephaneHockenhull that's largely irrelevant in a situation where I'm concerned that people might be intentionally upvoting and propagating misinformation because they don't like the language or people asking about it. Some of the answers don't even compile.
@AlexandreVaillancourt Honestly, this site would be better off banning all Game Maker related questions. it's gonna make the site look bad.
and deleting all 300 questions would be far easier than trying to edit and/or remove/replace that many incompetent posts.
@TheGreatDuck I don't understand; you're part of the problem if you have accepted those bad answers.
when did I say i accepted them?
I'm saying that the entire question base needs to be reexamined and mass purged.
that needs moderator support
How can they help you if they don't know enough about game maker?
2:48 AM
I'm proposing that we just delete them all and start from scratch
or perma ban them
Perma-ban what? Questions?
(the answers and the answerers)
In any case, that's not going to happen.
there are certain people who I will not name who are largely the problem it would seem
Not really. It happened a couple of times that I answered a question, which was accepted because it was the best one at the time, then was un-accepted in favour of a newer, better answer. This can happen.
2:52 AM
no i mean like the answers are so wrong that it would be like saying the product of 11 and 12 is 39.
they don't even make sense to anyone who uses the program and they even claim that they've never used game maker nor read the documentation
Again, downvote, leave a comment and write a better answer. If you can make this place a better place for game-maker users, they'll come, and the game-maker content will end up being much improved.
you seriously want me to go write 300 answers?
we should be banning people for not writing answers competently
or at least putting the stuff through the review queue
How do you judge that?
because there were posts indicating that the person knew the answer was wrong and was basically telling the asker that "it was what they deserved for using such a shoddy language"
I wasn't joking when I said an intentional propogation of misinformation
If the post is literal about this, you could try to use the 'flag for moderator' option to bring individual posts to the attention of the moderators.
2:59 AM
fair enough
I didn't think of that
I'll go to bed now :)
I have read your question, but I'm sorry I don't have a clue about what I could give you for an answer....
@AlexandreVaillancourt fair enough. I'm just feeling very dissatisfied about the general lack of quality here.
@TheGreatDuck You can help :)
@AlexandreVaillancourt that's not the point. It's as if this place is trying to be useless.
no offense
Ah, well that's not the feeling I have.
I'll go now; good night ;)
3:10 AM
2 hours later…
5:35 AM
@JoshPetrie You may want to rethink choosing not to close the post for unclearness. Read the documentation on the execute_string function which I claimed was not at all useful. Honestly, I'm shocked that I've never read the documentation on that thing... I've just been assuming how it works. gamemaker.info/en/manual/409_06_scripts
basically, the answer to my question is "read the ***** documentation on the functions you use"
8 hours later…
1:35 PM
@TheGreatDuck Just because an answer is trivial or involves reading the documentation doesn't make it unclear.
There are frequently times I have posted relatively simple answers to questions based upon documentation, but I was able to understand and piece together the documentation & pull together sources because of the expertise I have in the technology in question. Documentation is written by experts, and sometimes it's only easy to understand what the documentation is saying when you already know what it's telling you.
1 hour later…
2:49 PM
@doppelgreener Documentation is sometimes written by experts :P
1 hour later…
3:55 PM
@AlexandreVaillancourt Can you accept gamedev.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2432/… yet?
4:11 PM
@JoshPetrie Done!
4:22 PM
5:16 PM
@JoshPetrie It happened again...
Doesn't that question have less than 100 views?
Yeah, not for long, though :P
5:51 PM
Oh boy
Here we go

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