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12:00 AM
so I guess TF2 is the violent game rite?
@AlexM. Birthday MODE(yes it's violent)
what where
is it your birthday
no :P
There's a mode in Tf2 called Birthday Mode
which turns the guts and gore into cake and balloons / cogs
but I didn't play in that mode... so I guess you can say it's violent
you need to play more GTA
Nah GTA sux!
(hasn't tried it before)
12:02 AM
play GTA SA and do the casino chick missions in front of your parents
I don't want to know
it involves latex suits
I seriously want to pursue this -
there is nothing violent in it
cartoon web series thing.
@AlexM. Grand Theft... really
12:04 AM
or nothing violent in the bad way
@AlexM. Shooting random people?
no no
the latex suit mission
there's nothing violent in it
>_> need animator... but since I need to be able to contribute I'll just work on my story board skills... I guess
Cuz I suck at drawing
Like... a lot
I do too
@CodeAssassin got script yet?
12:09 AM
@ToddersLegrande no... that's what I need to work on.
Sure it's not going to take me a week to become good at it so it might take > 6 months or so
I like writing anyways
who dat chick
3D Spheres.
the subtitles say stuff like "vodka putin stalin vodka"
@CodeAssassin I would probably start with that if you are looking to recruit an animator. At least they then know you're serious about it
so they don't help
12:10 AM
@ToddersLegrande Yeah.
It also helps that I can code... so maybe it just makes me that much more interesting :P
searched on youtube: dark souls boobs
I was not disappointed
I lol'd when the guy used the "binoculars"
@ToddersLegrande Hmm I can see if I can roll out a quick story board
I'd imagine it to be a part of me and the person making it.
That way the cartoons could be super personalized yet funny.
@ToddersLegrande If I did do it, what would you like to see
@AlexM. Same to you too :P (STAY ON TOPIC LOL)
Probably some cross between XKCD and that web site where working with clients is a living hell
12:20 AM
I'll go to sleep now, it's 3:20 AM :(
cya later guys
@AlexM. xD alright man peace
@ToddersLegrande Haha okay.
@ToddersLegrande I guess I can have the recurring character who works in an office job
Blue-STONE technologies :P
Not in every ep but in some.
Blue Stone?
12:23 AM
I was going to ask if this was going to be an "inside joke"
merge to gtalk plox
but u is idle?
:/ is this guy a troll?
Q: Multiplayer game physics server logic

RomeoI have looked into some source codes of multiplayer games and i saw that they don't implement any kind of game loop on the server. Instead they work with events. If the game has physics handled by the server (i wanna use Box2D) shouldn't the server use a game loop to call the step method?

Q: How to implement server side physics?

RomeoI am working on multiplayer 2d sidescroller. Client looks like this: The game is in the GameScreen and there are groups of 2 players that play it. How should I implement the physics on the server? Use one world for every game or use a big world in which I add every 2 player that start a game?

Comments like this: "Box2D has the ability to stop certain objects from interacting with others"
make me think he's either trolling, or really wants to run multiple game instances with the same Box2D instance
12:40 AM
maybe its the latter
since hes talking about server side
He is talking about server side stuff, but as per this answer that Byte has linked to:
A: Run a physics simulation on both client and server?

rasmusDefinitely run the simulation on both the clients and the server. Anything else have too long latency. You should be sure that the simulations match by inserting objects in the same order, using a fixed time step and avoiding pointer comparison. I haven't tried this with Box2D but it is generally...

Run on both client and server
AND why only 1 Box2D instance on the server? I'd imagine you'd want (/need) one per game
No clue :|
I guess I'm a little confused
You around @Romeo?
1:10 AM
:/ I just want to remove his image from the earlier question, and add in some info from the second question, then close the second one
Yeah that picture really is irrelevant. "Here's my client. How do I do server side physics?"
Byte tried to remove the image earlier, but Romeo edited it back in
(again, the question about trolling)
saw that
(cleaning my keyboard, lol)
1:50 AM
hello fellow devs
anything amazing to report the world of gaming industry
:/ not from me
what you been working on ?
Working on getting my hard-coded data into JSON files. But it's a bit tricky because I want 3 layers of data to define an object: generic, entity specific, and object specific.
2:01 AM
not sure i follow? i do alot of JSON for server to client exchanges
So trying to find ways to create a bunch of components from a bunch of json. Should make for a great result
is it server lingo to JS client?
Right, so I have a component based system, and each component is data-only and can be defined in json (or xml, or whatever)
I'm in C#
ah i do php to js
so you just looking to sort all the data in a logical way to process later?
Yeah, I'll be doing json -> C# -> js... heh
    "SpriteName" : "*",
    "componentDefaults" : {
		"EntityName" : {
			"Name" : "*"
		"Position" : {
			"Center" : {
				"X" : "*",
				"Y" : "*",
			"Solid" : true,
			"Radius" : "*"
		"Animator" : {
			"Scale" : 1,
			"Tint" : {
				"R" : 255,
				"G" : 255,
				"B" : 255,
				"A" : 255
			"FrameAngle" : 0,
			"Angle" : 0,
			"CurrentSet" : null,
			"CurrentAnimation" : null,
			"CurrentOrientation" : null
    "SpriteName" : "asteroid",
    "componentDefaults" : {
		"EntityName" : {
			"Name" : "Asteroid"
        "Minable" : {
			"Minerals" : "*",
			"StartingMinerals" : "*"
So, everything in asteroid overrides everything in entity.json
but "*" still needs to be provided with runtime info
2:07 AM
surely it adds minable rather than replaces
Yes, it "extends"
So if it's new, it adds. If it was already there, it overwrites
so you need to look for:

if(entity[i].spritename == asteroid[i].spritename){ in a loop
Same with the next layer. And I need to create all these components using this data
that means replace
its guna be alot of if's :P
unless C# has a nifty built in function
Well... That's the beauty of json, you can merge these things together
in jQuery, its called Extend
2:11 AM
u will still need to loop though to see if they match unless there is only one object
in which case change [i] to [0]
or might not even need a position
are you doing the adding etc JS end or C# end
as i don't know C#
Kind of. I am using a library that handles the loops and other stuff. What I end up writing to merge the above json is:
	String entityJson = File.ReadAllText(@"..\entities\entity.json");
	EntityTemplate baseEntity = JsonConvert.DeserializeObject<EntityTemplate>(entityJson);
	EntityTemplate asteroidTemplate = (EntityTemplate)baseEntity.Clone();
	String asteroidJson = File.ReadAllText(@"..\entities\asteroid.json");
	JsonConvert.PopulateObject(asteroidJson, asteroidTemplate);
where EntityTemplate is something I wrote to hold a C# version of the json
i see thats complicated to follow as i am not familiar with the library of the language =/
currently im working on reducing ajax requests to a minimum of 1 per person
Essentially, it makes a C# baseEntity that's based on the json, then clones it, then extends it using the json for the Asteroid. Resulting in a C# representation of an asteroid
@Dave per update?
no i mean on connect to my server - it gets all the user's data + the layouts at same time in one json
all my html layouts are stored in json for js to display
Ah yeah, cool
2:18 AM
i have to worry about inflow of players
if my server lags the game is broken
my cron jobs need to work quickly so people login their data is updated
or they will be behind
Hmm, I always think that on-login stuff can be done on-login, as opposed to continuously
no the game continues when u log out etc
Are other affected by it?
I'm just imagining Travian right now
2:25 AM
yes think travian
So... is anyone else affected while I'm building my granary?
not really unless they attack you
I am... emotionally.
so the state of the game needs to be up to date
LOL todders
I've always imagined that Travian was "completeTime" driven. Meaning that when you start your granary, it sets up the time at which the granary will be done. Your client will show you constant progress, but the server is actually doing nothing at all. If you log out, again... nothing happens on the server, period. When you log in, the server looks at your account and may (or may not) determine that your granary is complete and tell you that it was finished hours ago
2:31 AM
true but lets say you build defence stuff
You could also re-calc when someone attacks
currently i have it at 60 minute updates for those not logged in
Just an alternative, probably less server intensive
if they are logged in the client does all the timers
60 minutes? ah, that's no problem then
2:32 AM
im curious though how they make a world
where people are placed in the world in a spot spaced out from others
yeah, I didn't play long enough to figure any of that out
yeh probably
So yeah, what's this about the cron jobs needing to work quickly or players would be out of date?
well some buildings once constructed generate resources every X amount of time
if no one interacts with their city
i need to use crons to update it all the time
don't know how else to do it
Nah, just (CurrentTime - completedTime) * rate
On login
Elapsed time * collection rate
2:37 AM
so alot of persistant games dont use crons at all /
if true that does stop me having to update cities that may be inactive!
I was kinda wondering when you asked the question earlier
your solution is far better than my current
now i have to re-code alot of stuff xD
(or maybe that was someone else that asked the question I'm thinking of)
On the plus side, it will be simpler. I hope
lowers the maths as i dont have to loop all the users every hour
Yeah, just OnInteraction
like, OnLogin
2:40 AM
wish i thought of that xD
If it's easier, you can always still have some OnTheHour calcs
Yeah, this is the question I was thinking of:
Q: Will running cron jobs every minute a good practice?

user31246I'm trying to create a browser-based game (made in PHP, MySQL, Js, HTML, and CSS) that is heavily dependent on user's actions being carried out after a certain amount of time passed whether online or offline. Will running cron jobs every second/minute a good practice or a solution to my problem? ...

:/ Maybe I should add an answer to this effect, even though this guy is down the cron path
i think on interaction solves the problem to the point crons are not needed at all
except for back up purposes
My only thought is what if something is supposed to happen while the user just sits there
2:46 AM
@Dave It's possible
@ToddersLegrande Like?
@ToddersLegrande what do you mean
I'd upvote it @JohnMcDonald... it doesn't "answer the question" but I think its a good alternative that people searching on the same topic would benefit from.
I honestly don't know anything about Travian
but in the context of "building a grannary"
but that can use client end
That would solve it :)
so nevermind :P
javascript would do that so server does no work :P client's pc does
2:47 AM
Client would just have to confirm with the server when the user then interacts with whatever it is that happened. Problem solved
Good call
3:03 AM
Well, I've added an answer: gamedev.stackexchange.com/a/57931/9366
anything I should clarify or change?
Looks good overall
The only thing I realized myself is all these little things you have to update, you'll have to keep track of a last updated time for that thing
If I was logged out for 5 days, my army got attacked on the 3rd day, when I log in I should see the results of that + 2 days worht of training or whatever. Not 5 days worth.
I don't know if that needs clarification or not... just a "gotcha" I thought of while reading through it
Yeah.... there is certainly some data involved with that
There can be potentially complex interactions between events. I'm trying to think of a good, clear example
Queue training for 3 days, log out for 5, get attacked on the second... its a good example. Don't know if its clear :P
Yeah... just getting it straight in my head
Because when you get attacked, your empire may get a complete re-calc (depending on the implementation)
That's an idea
would simplify things
3:12 AM
So the re-calc data would get stored, then when you log in, it would only re-calc the last 3 days
I approve of this plan
Maybe explain a complex example simply (kind of like I did) to show how messy this can get, and then explain the simple recalc scenario
3:27 AM
Alright, I added some kind of battle ex
good enough!
heh, time is a tough subject though. I'm going to be having some interesting time issues in my game if/when I get multiplayer moving again
But, at least in this style of game, time only moves forward, just forward at... different times
>.> Yeah.. that makes sense, right?
I believe so
Seriously though... I've been practicing Super Mario Bros for like 4 hours
heh, I kinda wanted to use "High and Dry" in an email this morning, because I was quite literally "high" and "dry", as in, away from the flood
lol, nice
same to you :P
3:34 AM
:p I ended up avoiding the phrase, simply because it usually means the opposite
I didn't really want to have my subject read: "High and Dry"
Great news. I think I have a solid plan for level 8-2. The hard part is nailing the ending
Considering how well I do the entire level up to the final stairs... I'm gonna skip the YOLO strats at the end and just play it safe
4:20 AM
@Byte56, are you around to discuss that A* question?
all I do is talk
4:36 AM
@Byte56 :/ Alright, I'm just going to answer a code wall
:( shame
4:49 AM
When you do read this, I'm not quite clear on what I should be doing with questions that are effectively "debug my code", even if I have some local knowledge, and am bored/procrastinating. I looked over the code, and came up with a very likely reason his code was failing, and wasn't sure if I should really be answering the code wall because all that does is encourage that behaviour in the future. Here's the Q: gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/57932/how-to-speed-up-astar
On one hand, I don't really want to encourage code walls. On the other, I think I can help. Are comments more appropriate? Is shutting this guy out what we need to be doing? I don't know.
Maybe I should start something on meta instead of asking a future diamond in chat
@JohnMcDonald When I come across that situation, I post an answer and make it community wiki.
I'm not sure how that helps anyone.
Doesn't sound like the answer to me either
It gives the OP the answer they need
Yeah, but it's really the same, except without the show: "I don't need the rep", no?
I've got enough rep to do what I want here, but...
I don't really see the point
5:01 AM
More like, "I'm not doing this for the rep".
It's just what I do. I don't want to get rep for "breaking the rules".
Noobs are still going to see an answer to a code wall and go "Hey, he got an answer, let's paste some code"
wiki or not
This site is all sorts of screwed up IMO. And maybe I just need to see clear examples... but heres what I see
tbh, I'm not sure there's a right answer to this, :/
Questions should be real world problems that you face
If you have a code problem, don't paste it in
Sure, it's up to you.
5:04 AM
And lots of times I think the real world problems a lot of us face are either code or subjective
Or often times "preoptimization" as you try to plan something out
I don't know what kinds of questions actually are allowed, honestly
well... SE is all about googleable answers
If we allowed people to just paste in the code they're having trouble with, that's all the site would be.
yeah... totally
I don't disagree
It's highly unlikely anyone else is going to have the exact same problem as him, and even more unlikely they'd be able to find it if we kept it.
5:07 AM
Well... considering how active you are, what is going to happen to questions like these assuming you become diamond?
Do questions like these warrant answers?
I know it's a bad question for SE, and for google, but... I guess I'm struggling with the fact that I can help (maybe)
I'd try to get him to generalize it.
I'm not really sure how it could happen.
:/ yeah
Considering what I think is his problem, it's quite specific
Yeah. It's one of those, come to chat and talk to us questions.
Have him post a comment linking him asking it on reddit, then follow him there and answer it.
Is there a way to invite sub 20 rep users to chat?
Nope. It's been requested a few times.
I'm not sure what the status on that is.
5:13 AM
Yeah, ok
For fun... what are some good questions?
But I'd use whatever influence I had as a mod to try and get that implemented :)
So: use other channels, or fit it into 250 chars
Heh, yeah.
@ToddersLegrande You want me to show you what I think are good questions?
@ToddersLegrande :D
Q: How to prevent homing entities from orbiting their targets

John McDonaldI am developing a 2D space game with no friction, and I am finding it very easy to make a homing entity orbit a target. I am curious about anti-orbiting strategies. A simple example is a homing missile that simply accelerates directly toward its target. If that target were to move perpendicular ...

5:14 AM
Or multiple comments :p
Yeah, that's a good one. Clear, to the point, with excellent visual examples.
So basically if you can't get something to work, explain in general terms what you are trying to accomplish and ask for approaches to soliving that problem?
And applicable to a wide audience
@ToddersLegrande Exactly.
Q: Calculating the rotational force of a 2D sprite

JonI am wondering if someone has an elegant way of calculating the following scenario. I have an object of (n) number of squares, random shapes, but we will pretend they are all rectangles. We are dealing with no gravity, so consider the object in space, from a top down perspective. I am applyi...

What if there are several approaches to such a problem?
Trying to think of a good one...
The top 2 answers to my question are both excellent answers
And totally different
5:18 AM
The more ways there are to approach something, the more general the answers will get. Eventually it crosses into the too broad threshold.
Ok... I think what I'm thinking comes down to a question quality issue then
@Byte56 kind of hit it
Also in there could be too subjective or even too localized if the wording isn't exactly right
I'd propose a gamedevoverlow for code based questions but we really don't have the numbers to split this community
Yeah... I was gonna mention earlier
If they work as coding questions, they should be asked on SO
5:21 AM
Are programming game dev questions not getting migrated?
Some are
I mean... that's problem solved right there
I personally would prefer a dedicated game dev programming site.. but I can just follow tags on SO too
But you know what? I think we need more migration from SO to here. That's how I found out about this place
Yeah they do need to do that.
Once I found gamedev, I never went back
5:23 AM
The speeding up A* question would be too localized for SO too
Oh yeah
I'm not disagreeing that it's too localized
It is
let me vote that
I think that was directed towards me :)
Yeah... I've often struggled with closing localized questions because I guess I feel more for the person crying out for help than I do for SE trying to keep the rif-raf at bay, :/
5:27 AM
That "give a pass to chat" would solve a lot of those too localized and not constructive questions.
IF they have 20 rep
Yeah, that's the "give a pass" part.
and IF they actually log in within the next 24 hours
They could implement a "tip" system. I'd give 20 of my rep to get those people into chat and productive members of the site.
5:29 AM
Q: Gift reputation to users that need it to join chat

ToddersLegrandeWhile I realize that for many users the chat is not a big part of the community but its really what keeps me engaged with the site and I think it would help keep other people (as in new users) here as well. Would it make sense to implement a feature where you can gift a user the gap amount of rep...

That's the one (of a few).
It should at least be a moderator privilege.
@ToddersLegrande Nice
This may be more of an issue with a community that is trying to grow, like gdse
Maybe I've got a new meta question / feature request here. I was thinking about this earlier today though I can't remember on which question...
make it a privilege that requires rep to activate
a rep level, not like lose rep in a bounty sense
1000 rep may be reasonable?
I dunno
I was thinking about it on the many commented meta question/answer from earlier today
I wanted to bring it to chat because it was getting very discussion oriented
If you just create a room for a question or an answer then the messages don't need to get lost in the shuffle and askers / answers with low rep can join THAT room and be denied access the real rooms until they hit their mark?
They could just removed the chat barrier for user created chat rooms.
That would work too
5:35 AM
The general chat rooms remain closed to < 20
A button to generate a user created room on a question would be good
right, that would work for me
but removing that barrier would be a good first step
Make the meta, I'd vote for it.
You're right... I need a break from Mario. It's been like 6 hours now
5:36 AM
Alright, I'm out. gn
Same. I will vote on that question though.
Nice deciding the future of GDSE with you guys.
Haha :)
6:22 AM
Q: Proposal to remove the reputation barrier on chatting in user created chat rooms

ToddersLegrandeAs per usual, a few of us were in the chatroom talking about code dump questions, subjective questions, localized questions, and other general off topic questions trying to figure out what to do with them because some of us REALLY WANT TO HELP but the question is inappropriate for the site so we ...

Loophole... I can star my own meta question posted by "Stack Exchange" ... and I am going to abuse it in this case.
1 hour later…
7:45 AM
Star? You can favourite any question, it doesnt do anything
@Kikaimaru in chat
technically I starred the chat message which only contained a link to a question. Poor wording on my part
oh i get it
5 hours later…
12:24 PM
1 hour later…
1:29 PM
Hi Jon,
oh MY god
after years of searching, I managed to find an actual working torrent for Konung 1
only one peer (seeder), 2.6MB/s
you guys have no idea how hard it is to find an actual place to download this game
trying to buy it from eBay gets you, if you're lucky, the original version w/o any patch whatsoever
otherwise, it gets you nothing
Hi friends, I want to discuss some gaming related concept. You have free to answer me.
1:51 PM
well, ask away and see if someone answers
2:09 PM
In computer science, a scapegoat tree is a self-balancing binary search tree, discovered by Arne Andersson and again by Igal Galperin and Ronald L. Rivest. It provides worst-case O(log n) lookup time, and O(log n) amortized insertion and deletion time. Unlike most other self-balancing binary search trees that provide worst case O(log n) lookup time, scapegoat trees have no additional per-node memory overhead compared to a regular binary search tree: a node stores only a key and two pointers to the child nodes. This makes scapegoat trees easier to implement and, due to data structure align...
should that "discovered by" not be replaced with "invented by"?
did Arne dig a hole outside and discover the scapegoat tree?
I would contend that mathematical things are discovered, not invented, but algorithms are kind of in the grey area between the two. In this case, I would probably agree with you, but I wouldn't be able to argue the point much.
technically, a tree was invented
a data structure first of all
a way to organize data
it's very different from discovering a mathematical relationship between two things
2:30 PM
hey all
2:59 PM
no one here @AlexM. @IcyDefiance

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