The Biosphere

12:34 AM

Hello all!

2:37 AM

@Chris @MadScientist @WYSIWYG have you seen my latest meta post (pinned message)? It addresses the problem of our dead chat..

TanMath

3:37 AM

I am offended by @AMR 's behavior on my snail question.. I have done exactly what he asked me to do, search on google scholar. Yet, no information. However, he is complaining that I am insulting the answerer. I don't see how I am insulting anybody! Am I wrong or what?

AMR

4:25 AM

Regarding the question by @TanMath that should be closed due to lack of research. Three Google scholar searches taking less than two minutes yield the following results: Snail Behavior Rain... 20,400 results; Snail Locomotion Rain 4,520 results; Snail Movement Rain... 22,500 results.

TanMath

6:31 AM

@AMR yeah, but the relevance of those articles are none!

AMR

7:05 AM

Second article of Snail Locomotion Rain mollus.oxfordjournals.org/content/41/5/415.extract

"This paper gives an account of an automatically recorded study over 511 consecutive days of the locomotor activity of a group of 50 adult snails, Helix asperse Müller, kept out of doors in a soil-filled arena. The daily cycle of activity is analysed with respect to season, daylength, temperature, and the temporal pattern of rainfall and soil moisture content, each of which is automatically recorded."

The next step in research is to read the article. You then find the articles that they cite and that sited this paper, and somewhere in one of those journal articles will be the answer to your question. That is how research is done. Not, "oh there are too many entries and I don't feel like working so I will just ask a bulletin board and then get pissy when I people don't give me the answer."

AMR

7:16 AM

Then from that article, you click on the Cited by 54 link. On that page, the fourth entry is "Physiological ecology of land snails and slugs." books.google.com/…

TanMath

@AMR can you please be less offensive? Otherwise, I am stuck with flagging you chat post!

Mad Scientist

Everyone please calm down a bit here

TanMath

@MadScientist hello! Am I being offensive?

Mad Scientist

@TanMath No, but your original comments did come across as a bit impolite. You can certainly ask people for references, but you shouldn't demand them, they're not absolutely required.

TanMath

@AMR well I searched up "snail rain" and didn't get any articles... So, I do admit I may have used a better search term...

@MadScientist have you deleted the offensive comments? I did say "can you please add references?" What is offensive about that? I have seen that been used before, and I have used it before as well..

@AMR I meant I do admit you may have used a better search term. Also, the article is behind a paywall. Thanks but for finding that article.

AliceD

8:13 AM

@AMR Did you link the post that the snail question needs closure?

Personally, I find the close-reason for a lack of research kind of difficult. I have a meta post on that

The thing is, also in that meta-post, doesn't every answer start with Google? And thus, is about 90% of the questions not poorly researched?

I don't know.

The question is a tad trivial and the first thing that does creep up on me: the internet must be choking with explanations on this. Agreed.

user685252

Agreed.

The internet is caught-up in eternal September :-)

Eternal September

In Usenet slang, Eternal September (or the September that never ended) began in September 1993, the month that Internet service provider America Online began offering Usenet access to its tens of thousands, and later millions, of users. Before then, Usenet was largely restricted to colleges and universities. Every year in September, a large number of incoming freshmen would acquire access to Usenet for the first time, and would take some time to become accustomed to Usenet's standards of conduct and "netiquette". But, after a month or so, these new users would either learn to comply with the networks...

AliceD

8:38 AM

@TanMath Yeah - I always sign out now haha. Just wrapping up my work, busy busy.

@TanMath Some heated discussion :)

user685252

8:51 AM

That don't generate light...

AliceD

10:52 AM

Anyone - Is a non-answer an answer, or should I comment? Look at my answer here: biology.stackexchange.com/questions/40184/… I say a lot, but basically it boils down to "I don't know".

It may save others work, perhaps...

@AMR It really reads like: "Why do [gay] snails like to come out on a rainy day" :)

AMR

3:24 PM

It is not my job to do your research for you. I simply used those two as examples of you being a lazy researcher. If they are behind paywalls then you go to your library. If the library doesn't have them as part of its collection, then you talk to your science research librarian, and they will explain to you how do submit requests to interlibrary loan. You aren't going to have a hope of becoming even a mediocre scientist if you aren't resourceful.

And yet you continued to show your petulance and kept digging a deeper hole for yourself making it patently clear that you hadn't put any effort into researching your question, but you kept demanding things from the others who were trying to help you. Why should anyone waste their time providing you with a well researched answer when you clearly showed you have put no effort into finding one on your own? You aren't a new poster with no reputation, where you get to have the benefit of the doubt.

It isn't like this is a questions which will actually provide benefit to a large audience the way a question regarding vaccines, or immunology, or diseases suck as HIV would. My only interest in snails is with a herb/butter sauce with a good pouilly-fuissé, and yet in less than five minutes of my time I found two key documents, that if I had cared to would have lead me to the answers to the questions.

Most all of the things I have seen you do on this site and in this forum are posing and attention seeking, and that really shows a lack of maturity.

@AliceD I really don't get the reference, sorry.

Resonating

4:51 PM

much ado about snails

Why is my top tag nearly always botany? I'm terrible at botany.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

5:44 PM

@AMR Tone down a bit please. Some of these messages may [rightfully] be flagged.

@MadScientist Hmm . . . I think I should blame language barrier.

in Me and MAR, yesterday, by Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath ~~I want your ideas!~~ You shouldn't demand ideas. Say instead: "Should we improve chat, and if so how do we do this?"

TanMath

6:52 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. ?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath I should be saying that to you.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. wait, i don't get what you are trying to say... Are you saying that I am not a native english speaker?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

You're not a native English speaker.

(From what it seems)

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. wrong!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

15 secs ago, by Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

(From what it seems)

Then you're younger than me.

TanMath

6:57 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. but what makes you think so? English was my first language!

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. um.....

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath The excess of exclamation marks and the way you formulate your sentences reminds me of the Indian users of SE. Of course, there was the possibility that it's just youth, but I ignored it since it's not the case in science sites, usually.

Seems like it is, but that's irrelevant.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. so I should stop using exclamation marks?

@terdon hello

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath Stop using them in every 2 sentences you write.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. ok.. I'll try to keep that in mind..

terdon

@TanMath Hi

TanMath

7:00 PM

(I felt like putting an exclamation mark)

@terdon how's things going?

terdon

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Sadly, excessive punctuation is a bane of natives and non-natives alike. That said, don't forget that many Indians are native English speakers.

@TanMath OK.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@terdon I would scratch that "many", but yes, there are Indian native English speakers.

@TanMath You can read some posts by the most reputable users in Bio to find out about the subtler points of writing.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. no, I think I mainly have this exclamation point problem for my chat messages.. If you take a look at my black and yellow question and some other questions, I definitely do not use exclamation marks.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I didn't say "don't use exclamation marks!".

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. No, but you were saying not to use so much.

Resonating

7:08 PM

@TanMath chill out, in general. Not really about punctuation.

TanMath

@Resonating then what is it about?

Resonating

I'm old and sleepy and find it taxing to keep up with the morning people.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Resonating If it weren't for school, I would've prolly waken up in 2 p.m. everyday.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. HeHe!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath Punctuation is just an example.

I suddenly felt too lazy to explain what I mean and want to say.

Don't mind me.

Resonating

7:13 PM

@TanMath You're just kind of excitable and high-energy and it's kind of exhausting.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Yeah, I can never summarize what I say in one sentence.

My meta posts are all bed-time stories.

TanMath

@Resonating it's exhausting? what do you mean?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath You're supposed to be boring . . . like we are.

Maybe I should've said bored and boring.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. well, you're definitely not boring!

oops, used an exclamation mark...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Haha don't worry about it.

TanMath

7:20 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. did you see the original post AMR was making a big deal about? Do you know why it sounded so ofeensive?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Use as many exclamation marks as possible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!‌!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!‌!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!‌!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TanMath

HeHe!!!!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath I didn't; that's why I said

27 mins ago, by Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath I should be saying that to you.

TanMath

I just said "Can you please add references?"

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Was the wording exactly like that?

TanMath

7:22 PM

Then AMR goes on saying that i didnt do any research and that I shouldn't insult the answerer and on and on and on!

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I think so...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

OK you need to give me a link.

TanMath

I was wondering why that message I posted got AMR so angy..

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Unless there are removed comments.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. of what?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Of the crime scene.

TanMath

7:24 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. the evidence was removed by a mod! That is why yuo cannot see it... I guess one of the mods thought it was too chatty or something like that...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath I think MadSci removed it. Anyways, there's not much point in discussing it.

TanMath

actually, I remember the exact wording was "As i mentioned in the comments, can you please add references?"

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Get past it.

It's not important.

If it'll become more serious, you two just will have to ignore each other.

(I mean use the "ignore" button in chat)

TanMath

No, I feel that AMR was being too offending, and I wish that I could have taken action, and that the mods would do something. But no, they were also attacking me...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Were they?

Resonating

7:26 PM

@TanMath Someone Is Wrong On The Internet

TanMath

@Resonating ?

Resonating

@TanMath xkcd.com/386

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath Ref: xkcd

Resonating

Someone will always be wrong or unhappy or mean on the internet

Unless you're willing to shoulder the responsibility of making sure every internet user is content and polite you kind of have to let this go

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

in Language Overflow, Aug 17 at 18:51, by Damkerng T.

> Will Bowen
“Hurt people hurt people. We are not being judgmental by separating ourselves from such people. But we should do so with compassion. Compassion is defined as a "keen awareness of the suffering of another coupled with a desire to see it relieved." People hurt others as a result of their own inner strife and pain. Avoid the reactive response of believeing they are bad; they already think so and are acting that way. They aren't bad; they are damaged and they deserve compassion. Note that compassion is an internal process, an understanding of the painful and troubled road trod by a…

So true.

TanMath

7:27 PM

oh well.. I think I have noticed something similar with AMR so I think he justsvgets angry very easily

Resonating

Maybe AMR is cranky because he's interneting from an internet cafe where you have to put your feet in a bucket of biting crabs or something

TanMath

hehe...

Probably!

I tried to deal with the situation nicely, but AMR kept on attacking..,

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

(That message was from a chat drama I had earlier)

TanMath

It was insulting...

Resonating

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. MAR that's great, I'mj going to bookmark that for later

@TanMath yes yes your feelings are hurt. Just think, he's losing toes just to argue with you. Now drop it forever

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

7:29 PM

@Resonating That's not the only nice message from that guy. :)

TanMath

@Resonating fine..I will drop it.. a

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath BTW ellipsis is " . . . " not "..." or ".." or anything like that.

TanMath

But next time, if he does do anything similar to me, I will make sure to flag all of his offensive posts! This time, he got lucky..

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Calm down.

Resonating

Will bowen, huh? He writes the most ridiculously-titled books ever, but he seems to be wise

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

7:30 PM

Next time, remember to ignore him quickly.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. meaning? ellipsis is like this "..." correct?

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. ok..

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. where do you live? what time is it there?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Resonating " . . . the most ridiculously-titled . . . " Tell me something new. :P

Resonating

@TanMath Are you planning to go to their house and ask them questions about ellipses?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath The difference between the wrong ellipsis "..." and the correct ellipsis " . . . " is that the latter has some inter-spaces.

TanMath

@Resonating no!

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. ah.. But this is not a grammar website..

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

7:32 PM

@TanMath Iran, 11:02:30 (UTC + 3:30)

@TanMath Beautiful typesetting is beautiful, grammar site or not.

Resonating

@TanMath Alas, until the telepathic helmet is invented you'll have to settle for writing down your ideas with letters just like everyone else.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

(Actually beautiful and correct)

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. ah . . . ok. . .

to be honest, I dont like the correct ellipsis.. too spread out, the dots are

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I could write these two sentences:
1. haha hello i meant to talk to you the other day but i couldn't because my grandma was feeling a bit sick so anyway how is it going
2. Haha! Hello, I meant to talk to you the other day but I couldn't (because my grandma was feeling a bit sick). So anyway . . . how is it going?

See the difference?

Resonating

@TanMath That's a question of font, mostly. Two periods instead of three is both unclear and really irritating.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

7:37 PM

@TanMath I would rather write " . . . " rather than "...". But note that the spaces should be less than what the former presents.

TanMath

@Resonating Well, habit of writing with two dots, I do have.

Resonating

God almighty typesetters in the past have a lot to answer for. n-dashes and m-dashes are ridiculous and the people responsible should be shamed publicly.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. Understand I not!

Resonating

@TanMath Have you given up on word order too?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

in Language Overflow, Oct 5 at 16:28, by tchrist

They equate "different from the most common of all possible word orders" to mean YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA YODA

TanMath

7:39 PM

@Resonating @Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. got the joke!

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Should have, you, got joke the.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I did.

Resonating

He's probably talking to me

but Yoda has a linguistic pattern to his speech anyway yodajeff.com/pages/talk/yodish.shtml

TanMath

@Resonating Oh, talking to you, he is.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

It's somehow wrong to try to find out what I'm trying to say. It's like learning philosophy from a madman.

Resonating

7:44 PM

you're just doing VOS instead of SVO, which is not traditionally permitted in english

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Yes, inversion doesn't work like that.

Resonating

Also once VSO once, because sloppy

TanMath

I just used a program to convert english to yodaspeak! Idk the actual linguistics of Yoda...

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. when do you sleep?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Soon.

TanMath

I feel there is nothing to talk about...

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

7:57 PM

There isn't.

You have to find a topic for discussion.

TanMath

Quantum chemistry is really just quantum mechanics, isnt it?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Hmm, it's complicated.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I know much of the basics of quantum mechanics, but to be honest. quantum chemistry is much complicated...

@AliceD regarding my post on meta, what do you think would be a good definition of the chat being 'dead'

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Well, chemists study the electrons, physicist the nuclei. It's an oversimplification, but it's more or less true.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. hey, do you guys study exciton transfer? BTW, I should have asked before, but do you know a lot abt quantum chemistry?

terdon

8:11 PM

@TanMath lay off on the chat popularization campaign. Many people are just not interested in the chat. In fact, the chat rooms of most SE sites are dead. That's OK, there's no reason to chat if the community doesn't want to and in a site like this, whose regulars are working scientists, very few people will have the time or inclination to chat.

4

I don't see how anything can be done about this, nor do I see any reason to do anything about it.

2

TanMath

@terdon no, look at the h Bar, or the Periodic Table . . .

terdon

@TanMath What do you mean? Yes, I know some sites have active chat rooms, but others don't. Bugging people and pinging them for no reason are not good ways to change that.

If you want to do something, you could organize some kind of discussion. Say, on thursday, we could talk about subject X and advertize that on meta. I don't know if anyone would be interested but that's a more constructive way of attempting to make the chat more popular.

6

TanMath

@terdon like a chat session? @Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. come on out and we can explain the long history of thus meta post!

(@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. I am not trying to be rude, but terdon here doesn't like my chat campaign)

@terdon we have had a long discussion over the past week about our chat, and what to do about it. Long story short, I originally wrote a post suggesting my ideas about improving our chat- a chat session and a different description for our chat. However, it didnt get any support, and @Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. told me to delete it and write a post to ask for ideas. That is why i wrote this new post.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Hmm.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. as you can see, this chat campaign is not going well..

terdon

8:21 PM

@TanMath I know, I keep an eye on this chat room. All I'm saying is that I think you're being too aggressive with it.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@TanMath Is it a campaign? I thought you were asking for ideas?

TanMath

@terdon so yoj do support the idea of a chat session..

terdon

Not really, but that would be the sort of thing you could try. Other people might be interested.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. IDK what to call it.. terdon says its a campaign, but i am asking for ideas only...

@terdon If you want, you could write an answer on that..

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Well, maybe you should clarify and mention that you're asking for ideas.

TRE happened after the chat was active, not before.

TanMath

8:25 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. i know.. but how does this have to do with my meta post.

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I'm saying a chat session might not be as successful as you imagine it to be. Not at first, at least.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. ok.. but @terdon partially agrees with the idea.. We could try, but i hoor other members could have better ideas...

14 mins ago, by terdon

If you want to do something, you could organize some kind of discussion. Say, on thursday, we could talk about subject X and advertize that on meta. I don't know if anyone would be interested but that's a more constructive way of attempting to make the chat more popular.

terdon

@TanMath As I said, I honestly am not very interested in this at all. Sorry. I would have written an answer otherwise.

TanMath

@terdon ok..

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

I'm sleeping for now, I'll come back and we'll discuss this/

TanMath

8:28 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. fine.. when are you available tomorrow?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

The available time.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. very helpful! when is that "available time"?

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

Tomorrow.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. more specific? you can tell me in your local time..

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

There's a reason I'm not giving you a specific time . . .

TanMath

8:31 PM

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. just give me a range..

terdon

@TanMath See, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Back off!

He doesn't want to give you a time or make a date or anything. Stop pressuring him!

TanMath

fine..

Well, I dont have anything to talk about now... I think I should leave..

Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ.

@Tan I'd give you a time, and the schedule could change and I wouldn't be able to be there when I said I would be.

That's why I'm not giving you a specific range of time.

TanMath

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. ok.. I might be here around 10:30 or 11:30 am your time.. I will check to see if you are in the Periodic Table..

@Ϻ.Λ.Ʀ. gud night!

AliceD

9:01 PM

@TanMath -they are your words

I don't think it's dead, that's the point

TanMath

9:12 PM

@AliceD oh! Well I feel it is dead..Many others do too! I don't have the messages, but some did say themselves that it is dead. I feel that if it is more than 1 day gap between messages, then the chat is dead. Clearly, that happens very often.

Resonating

9:29 PM

@TanMath Does it really? When was the last time it was more than 24 hours between messages?

Not this week, but I'm not sure how to look further back

AliceD

@TanMath imo 24h is not so bad. Further, defining something as dead while it is just slow to respond wouldn't be good practice, at least not in medicine :)

TanMath

@Resonating chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/1997/2015/10/10

The next message (by me) was two days later!

@AliceD Do you really think there is no one in chat to talk for 24 hours? That is pretty bad for me..

I was thinking, why would you want to close your own question? Din't you want it open so people can answer them?

Resonating

10:40 PM

Chat isn't empty, it's just that nobody is saying anything

TanMath

11:23 PM

@Resonating i guess... But then how can we get people to talk?

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