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12:27 AM
I'll probably just continue making my game for now
but I'll check out how I can make a stable side income in the coming months
ideally I'd avoid having to do extra things on the side but if it's necessary so be it
however I really do hope to make more than 1$ per hour
5$ per hour would already provide some kind of support for starters
 
 
1 hour later…
1:33 AM
Remember: just breaking even is more than most games accomplish. So plan to make less than your costs for several games in a row before you're lucky enough to have a modest success.
 
 
8 hours later…
9:25 AM
I don't have any costs though, except my wage then
 
food?
 
But I'll ask some business people who are related to the programming scene
People who are good with making bank
I mean everything is covered by a minimum wage
getting to the minimum wage seems to be a challenge though even for people who can already code
 
I don't think an indie game's success is at all related to the skills of the one programming it
 
Shouldn't it?
 
Customers dont care about your code quality
 
9:32 AM
But productivity does
If you go about it the right way
That's why I don't like things like overthinking on design patterns - that doesn't get anything on the screen.
But at the same time, some of that is necessary to ensure a good workflow
 
True, this is just what I've found. Some games have great programmers, and they succeed. Some games have not so great programmers and they succeed. Some games have great programmers and they fail
 
I'm sure the most of the games who succeed have a combination of good programming, art and/or marketing
 
nwp
Bethesda is successful despite every single game being a buggy mess.
 
And some people get lucky, but that's not a good strategy lol
Don't forget game design also
etc
 
9:40 AM
I think this goes back to what Almo said yesterday about "I can force this to be a success somehow"
 
I want it to succeed
 
Of course
 
And yes
Luck isn't a good strategy
 
9:57 AM
@DMGregory Well thats the case... Heres a little example... I have a "Save" component and a entity i wanna save to the database... at the end of the frame the "Save-System" runs over all "Save" taged entities and creates a batch sql query ( insert into values(....) ), but one of those entities has a null reference and needs one more frame to resolve this missing reference... the query runs and throws a exception, none of those entities are getting inserted due to this one missing reference...
 
Why not validate before appending to the batch?
 
Because its a generic hibernate related save system... the only validation hibernate knows is throwing errors when something doesnt work as expected... of course i could insert a few if conditions, but the condition if a entity is able to get saved should depend on the entity itself
I already created a condition component in the past... that system works fine, but some of the entities i wanna save already have those condition components attached, and the ecs does not allow multiple of the same components...
So i came up with the following idea... TrySaveSystem -> Spawns in SaveConditionEntity -> When that spawned entity condition is true -> SaveSystem saves entities... its a bit staged but the only solution i could come up with so far
 
What does the SaveSystem not know about the entities? An entity should not contain any info, it should all be in components?
Alternatively, only add the SaveComponent/flag it as valid when the entity becomes valid to save inside some other system that changes the validity?
 
Thats a good solution... so we would simply iterate over all "Unsaved" entities... and once they are ready to get saved, we would attach the save component... Thanks a lot ^^
 
 
4 hours later…
2:20 PM
@Tyyppi_77 He's ignored the important bit that we've told him: no matter how good your product is, no matter how much you spend on marketing... you can't predict how people will interact with your product. If it was possible to force a product to succeed just by using the correct methodology and budgeting, wouldn't companies already be doing that?
The answer to that is "companies aren't doing that, because it's not possible". Which was supported by examples of very successful studios (SuperCell and Blizzard) killing games they've spent lots of development time and effort on already.
If it were possible to know if a product were going to be successful from the start because you were using the correct methodology and budgeting, why would they spend all that money making failed games?
Pretty much at this point the discussion just goes round and round because xcrypt wants one answer, and one answer only: "I can start making games and support myself immediately". Which is patently false without luck being involved.
At this point, just go do it, and come back and let us know how successful your first product is, and I promise you, we will cheer you. We love seeing developers have success! :)
Along the way, if you have specific development problems, keep asking questions here in chat and on the main site. We love to help!
 
3:03 PM
@xcrypt I don't think the "American Dream" era where you just "had to work hard to succeed" is still valid nowadays. You mention "the right thing", but in gamedev, there is no recipe for "the right thing".
 
It was never valid. This is seeing US history through rose-colored glasses.
Luck has always been involved.
 
Yeah. I guess so. You can work hard, and never work toward being "noticed". "For sure, they'll see the amount of work I'm doing, I'll sure get the promotion".. nope.
 
nwp
Has there been any Pridefall going on on SE?
 
I haven't observed it yet. I'm hoping it's mostly just talk and fear-mongering - several past channer projects in a similar vein have come and gone with little impact.
 
Haven't read anything about that before you mentioned it and -- wow.. people have time to waste.
 
nwp
3:16 PM
That's good. A few Discord servers got hit (I believe they crashed the server instance) and I have one too. It didn't get hit yet. I kinda wanna see them try.
There is also a chance it's already over. People get very excited over it but also quickly lose interest.
The funny thing is without the Pridefall thing I wouldn't know that Pride Month exists.
 
The "work hard and you will succeed" thing is leftover "Protestant work ethic". "The Protestant work ethic, the Calvinist work ethic, or the Puritan work ethic is a work ethic concept in theology, sociology, economics and history which emphasizes that hard work, discipline, and frugality are a result of a person's subscription to the values espoused by the Protestant faith, particularly Calvinism."
 
The thing that confuses me is that, although the Pride month is in June, pride week is celebrated in like August in Montreal.
 
So if you are "saved" it will show in success in your endeavors.
 
@nwp Clearly I need to crank up the 🌈rainbows🌈 around here! πŸ³β€πŸŒˆ
 
So anyone who doesn't succeed, must not be morally upstanding. Not sure if the theology says this, but people interpret it that way.
 
3:27 PM
Looks like a great cause for depressions.
 
nwp
@DMGregory Yes! I actually did that too in my server. It seemed like the correct response to piss them off :D
 
πŸ³β€πŸŒˆπŸ˜πŸ³β€πŸŒˆ
5
Most important thing to keep in mind about Pride and pride month: a lot of folks think it's a street party, but it's a protest. It commemorates the Stonewall riots in New York and here in Toronto, the Bathhouse riots, which were violent backlashes against discriminatory policing.
So Pride and the #BlackLivesMatter movement go hand-in-hand in standing up to police brutality and discrimination. In a phrase often attributed to Marsha P. Johnson, "No pride for some of us, without liberation for all of us"
 
Hep...
Another example why the "American Dream" is not really a thing.
 
3:43 PM
It's also why I'm rolling my eyes extra-hard this month at anyone who says violent protest doesn't accomplish anything. I have the rights I have today as a gay man thanks to Black lesbians and trans women leading a riot, punching and hurling bricks at abusive police.
 
^
 
These days, it's not clear to me what proportion of people go there to actually protest, and what proportion are just there to break things. (Although it's been like that forever...)
 
CNN showed a group that came in and systematically cleaned out one store at a time
 
Easy way to solve that: introduce sweeping reforms to address the concerns of the protestors. They go home, leaving nothing for the agitators to tag along with.
 
I know we should stay off politics. I'll just say it bugs me that Colin can't protest peacefully or they all mad, so what happens? Of course things turn violent, and even so, some of the violence is by people who want other people to turn against the original reason for the protest. That's why we should not be so disdainful of peaceful protest.
@DMGregory yeah
 
3:51 PM
@DMGregory Yep!
 
@Vaillancourt And blurring that confusion only feeds into the hands of the authorities who use it as justification to break up protests and undermine movements.
 
@brug Yes, unfortunately.
 
A tactic they have been using for decades. Since the Black Panther days.
Apr 8 at 18:26, by Vaillancourt
Is Trump in the US perceived as becoming a dictator?
 
By some, yes
By me, certainly.
roughly 40% still support him
that's probably the scariest part about all of this
 
I am astounded by that number
But I know just how pervasive white supremacy really is so I believe it
Sorry for bringing in politics though.
 
4:07 PM
yeah, nobody's fighting about it at the moment so we're ok.
 
@brug It was mostly my doing. I'm a shit disturber sometimes. πŸ˜‰
 
Well as long as I'm not gonna get chastised for it!
:]
 
4:45 PM
Bringing up political related topics seems okay, as long as discussions and debates remain done in a civilized way. As long as people involved can recognize that they disagree with the other(s) and disengage, I think there is nothing wrong here.
You won't convince a fan to vote against their favourite politician.
 
5:00 PM
yeah. I'm not here to change peoples minds.
But sometimes just talking about ones existence becomes a political statement...
 
true
 
 
3 hours later…
8:06 PM
When someone asks "How does Game X achieve Y," if I can see a way to do it and I have the time, I've taken to trying to edit into "How can my game achieve Y" with game X as an example. It can be less discouraging for a new user than a close vote, and they can roll back the edit if I get it wrong. πŸ˜‰
2
 
8:42 PM
makes sense to me! :)
 

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