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9:53 AM
Hi guys! So I'm reading some webgl libraries and I've seen a simple geometry cube where points are duplicated.
I'm wondering if storing duplicate points is a "default" thing, and reading this answer: https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/a/172610/4508 seems to confirm... normally in 3d geometry shared points between triangles are duplicated because of in this way we can store normal per vertex and have smooth shadow right? but does this make sense in a cube?
 
10:05 AM
Hey @nkint
Yes, duplicating vertices is absolutely normal, and that has to do with how they are stored in the GPU to be drawn faster
This is regardless of the geometry
So if you have a rectangle that is divined into two triangles (for example) you would have 6 vertices in an array
As you mentioned this also has the benefit that you can have different values on each vertex (normals or texture coordinates)
 
ok thanks!
 
 
2 hours later…
12:12 PM
Is anyone here using Blender?
 
 
2 hours later…
2:32 PM
We don't, I used it a bit in the past.
 
Ah, they changed the UI recently, and was curious if I'm the only one that finds it annoying that I have to learn it all over again :/
 
Yeah, the UI and the UX are the biggest complains about Blender. I heard they did that to help transition from other big 3d software, though.
 
Yeah, but they changed all of the shortcuts and made the experience worse for existing users
I wanted to bake the ambient occlusion on some assets yesterday and spent way too much time trying to find where everything is
 
2:51 PM
I heard there was a way to revert to the old shortcuts.
 
I'll look more into it later today, hope there is
 
Good luck :)
 
Thanks, I think i'll need it :P
 
3:48 PM
The chat seems quiet today, I can't really think of a good programming topic to make it more active :p
 
3:59 PM
@TomTsagk Yes. They're not the only franchise that does this sort of thing; sadly, the company of misery doesn't compensate for the time sink of relearning the tool sets.
@Vaillancourt Admittedly, I'm at all up to speed on Blender's current state of affairs, but that's somewhat shocking based on my past experiences with their community view on UX.
 
I just wish they didn't completely change the whole UI in just one update, and did it gradually or something
It really feels like a completely new program
They even changed how you select objects, or vertices from objects
 
That solution (gradual conversion) has its own set of hassles. Nonetheless I sympathize.
 
I can understand that to be fair
 
Being open source, someone is free to fork / branch & support the legacy UI.
 
I guess people can always just download an earlier version
 
4:06 PM
"Free" being a loaded four letter word in this case.
I learned 3DS max first - when I tried to to use blender for the first time, it was maddening.
 
I've heard that from an artist friend of mine
 
Having the same thing without switching brands is even worse.
 
I started with blender, so for me its UI always made sense
 
Yes, you get used to what you're used to.
 
The thing is, I think Blender's UI and shortcuts worked amazingly well. Sure there is a learning curve because they are different that other 3D software, but I think once you learn them you can work quite fast
I haven't gotten used to the new ones yet, so I can't really say if this is faster to be fair
I've used Maya in the past, and it felt quite weird at first :P
 
4:12 PM
"Sure there is a learning curve because they are different that other 3D software, but I think once you learn them you can work quite fast" - I've heard similar logic for numerous open source projects. Even when it's factual, I think there's a danger in dismissing the standard operating procedures of your target demographic.
 
If they all start to look alike, then what's the point have multiple of them? :/
 
I would argue that if you can come up with a good answer for that in terms of features, cost or support, then you need to rethink your product.
 
To be fair it is open-source, and maybe they are trying to satisfy their donators, which sure makes sense
I guess I'm just a little more emotional because I planned to do some work on blender these days and it turns out I have to spend double (or more) so I can learn the ui as well
 
I'm not saying things can be different. And there is great value in exploring new solution spaces. But refusing to consider previously mapped solutions out of spite isn't helpful.
@TomTsagk That's understandable.
I think that also goes toward why a lot of people don't switch from commercial software to certain open source alternatives. They just want to be able to get work done. Asking them to unlearn commercial app X and relearn how to do that in open source app Y represents a cost that many projects fail to estimate correctly.
 
GIMP has a horrid interface
I did not like Blender at all, but that was around 2010. It may have improved.
 
4:23 PM
I think GIMP has made some good decisions lately
@Pikalek That makes sense, and I think it's one of the good arguments I've heard of why someone would prefer commercial software instead of blender
Didn't GIMP unify all their windows into 1 now?
 
Not sure. I've used it pretty recently and still find it weird.
 
The only thing I find weird with GIMP is when you have to structure a project with folders. It feels like the UI is lacking there
 
the whole "floating layer" shit is confusing
the way you move selected stuff around is confusing
the different modes on the select box are confusing
I could go on and on
 
I haven't tried GIMP in a very long time. At this point, I don't know why I would unless I moved off Windows.
 
I see what you mean, I haven't used a commercial software for images in years, but I can see why the floating layer thingy can seem confusing
@Pikalek Makes sense, I'm not using windows so choices are limited
 
4:29 PM
What are you using?
 
I'm on Arch Linux, the two most famous image-manipulation software there is GIMP and Krita
And imagemagick, but that's not the same :P
 
Haven't tried the Arch distro.
 
a search for all instances of "gimp argh"
 
Oh wow :P
 
I'm still easing into Krita. For the most part, I like it. I wish the had more into about their API though.
 
4:31 PM
thing drives me nuts :)
 
Someone really doesn't like GIMP haha
I've used Krita only once before, wanted to give it a try. It was ok but I didn't spend much time on it
What software do you use @Almo
for images
 
Gimp
i just hate it
if i had a choice i'd use photoshop
but I don't use it enough to warrant paying for it
for simple editing, I use GraphicConverter
a paid app on OSX
 
It depends one what you want to do with images. Edit & pixel push or create from scratch?
 
I think that's the best response :P
 
edit and piuxel push :)
 
4:35 PM
I wouldn't use Krita for that sort of work personally.
 
Is Krita more useful to draw new things then?
 
I like it for painter-ly stuff. I'm also not using it for game dev, just for art-ing around.
I'd consider doing some dev work on it, but thus far, I've found their info on their API & systems to be rather opaque.
 
What kind of work do you do?
I mean on Krita :P
what do you draw?
 
I did that mostly in chalks.
It needs more detail work.
 
Oh cool! looks pretty interesting!
Is this part of something or just practising?
 
4:45 PM
Mostly I'm using it as a vehicle for improving my drawing. It's nice to be able to iterate more quickly than if I was using physical materials.
 
looks pretty neat!
 
And I'm not quite willing to dedicate space for doing things like painting with acrylics. So doing it in Krita (or some other painterly app) works well for me.
 
Is there any goal? Or is it just a hobby for now?
 
Mostly it's a creative outlet for me right now.
And my kiddo is into art so, it's nice to have a shared activity.
 
oooh that sounds so cute, parent and child both drawing for fun :P
But yeah, so annoying when the UI changes for no reason :P
 
4:52 PM
Yes.
It's been years since I did anything with Corel Painter, so I don't really recall how it did & didn't work. So Krita is more or less a clean slate for me. I'm not sure I'm into this enough to justify purchasing painter for myself. And the couple of mid tier competitors I've looked at don't have quite the feature set I want.
If I could write plugins for Krita similar to what Paint.net allows, then it'd seal the deal for me.
 
I've heard of Corel Painter but never used it
Can you use a drawing stylus in all of them?
 
Not sure about Paint.net, but the the others do have stylus support.
I got to dabble with a lot of creative software back in college. for a while, I managed the "multi-media" lab, so it was more or less my job to know how a wide array of the stuff worked. Exposed me to a bunch of stuff I might otherwise not have tried.
 
Ooh, I used to make online webcomics some years back, and apart from some odd game-related stuff, I haven't worked that much in graphics
Guess it's why GIMP kinda worked for me :P
 
5:07 PM
There's some interesting comic oriented tools out there theses days. I haven't tried them, but I've wondered how much of a niche it is (i.e. does it have needs that are strong & different enough to warrant separate products).
@TomTsagk @Almo out of curiosity, have you tried pinta?
 
haven't tried it before, but looks promising
 
I found it just now while looking up gimp related options - not familiar with it myself.
shrug
 
5:26 PM
It seems its open source and supports BSD as well, but its described as being influenced by .NET, so not sure about that
I prefer programs that have their own idea of what they want to be, instead of copying others
 
Didn't realize that it had that overlap. That's would actually be a plus for me - writing paint.net plugins is sometimes a pain as the source APIs are only sort of available as far as I know (using old versions or reflection). Having documented, accessible source might make somethings easier.
@Josh Morning.
 
user4704
5:51 PM
Hi.
 
I saw your comment regarding sdding network support sooner rather than later. In your experience is net support something that has been hand added to projects or run through pre made library code?
 
@Pikalek I have not :)
 
 
4 hours later…
10:17 PM
Refactoring is always such a pain to begin with.

But once you get started; you can't stop and it feels so satisfying to compare it with the original.
It quite helps me understand the code I wrote so long ago and making it more understandable for the future, avoiding bugs to begin with; instead of fixing them afterwards by applying more ugly patches.
 

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