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03:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

3:06 AM
@AlexandreVaillancourt :D
 
 
5 hours later…
8:00 AM
Well yeah, red always wins because there's still only one attack per side, if the entire side attacks then it matters what strategy you use
@FreezePhoenix Hmm?
Also, I plan to integrate my old board game designs into this game, so no worries about it being pretty silly now
...given, of course, that my board game design is up to par, but it was okay on those playtests, it just kind of screamed "actually a video game" at times
I never did get that sleek elegance that I wanted
 
8:45 AM
Check it! I'm using the tree-based event system to log kills and it's beautiful.
 
9:03 AM
XKCD is watching me: xkcd.com/2021
 
9:43 AM
@doppelgreener o/
 
anyway what's the point of the game?
is it a story-driven adventure like rpg or visual novel
or is it gameplay-centric like a bullet hell
what genre is it
how long and deep is it
 
My plan for it is to be a multi-player game
 
progression? character customization? skill trees? items? generated dungeons?
 
can we talk about this in gamedev
 
9:50 AM
we can
9 messages moved from Maid Café (メイド喫茶)
boom
 
i am here to stalk
 
I am here to talk
 
@Hakase my game is a multi-player game where the player moves through a world killing people and taking lands
it is a RPG and a MMO
@Hakase
 
i am here 2 be a dork
 
that sounds to ambitious tbh
 
9:56 AM
good morning, folks o/
 
good morning o/
 
maybe if you are building something really simple
with some great mechanic, maybe it can work
 
yeah it is pretty normal for someone learning game dev to very early on decide they want to make an MMORPG
but they're colossal efforts and the kind of thing teams of dozens or hundreds of people can do and that one person can't really do
 
Take the simplest io-like game that you can relate to and elaborate from that maybe?
 
multiplayer games and RPGs and multiplayer RPGs are on the board though
 
9:59 AM
I think I'll just simplify my goal.
And now I need to find my missing mouse BRB
 
You know those "drag from one planet to another to send a fleet of spaceships" type games?
Try building that and then adding some complexity
Unless it's about individuals fighting of course
 
10:12 AM
@TheMaskedRebel is it real time or step-based? simultaneous or turn-based?
 
real time
 
what's the visual style
 
Instead of me asking a whole load of questions, let me just show you
 
is it miniature figures or close-up detailed ... alright
 
Just so it's clearer to me in terms of the functioning of a game... there is no clear-cut real-time and turn-based, right? It's all tick-based and the real difference is whether or not ticks pass without your confirmation?
 
10:14 AM
You need to create an account and give me the name
 
oof
I'm a bit busy at the moment
 
I mean I want my game to be tick-based, and ticks last 1-3 seconds, but they pass even if you're not ready, so I guess that makes it real-time?
Whereas factorio and minecraft update dozens of times per second?
 
uh what are you asking about?
how the game engine counts steps?
 
How you define a "real-time" vs "turn-based" game
 
I just wanted to get the general idea of what the game is about and how it's like
 
10:17 AM
if game engine updates happen at a fixed pace or player-driven pace is the real difference right?
Yeah, I'm asking this in general, more for myself
 
oh ok
 
@AlexMitan I am not answering any more questions about my game
 
goddamit gotta register using an email address
who uses email in this day and age
 
Hearthstone is clearly turn-based, and Mario is clearly real-time, but SUPERHOT is... turn-based? And browser strategy games are real time, even if a tick takes 10 minutes to pass?
 
I'll have to get back to you about this from home, and that'll be in about 8 hours
 
10:18 AM
Yeah, I have to go out now too
 
@AlexMitan computers are digital so they work in discrete steps, but when the game ticks along at 30 updates per second it's still good enough to call it real time. the game progresses at a fixed constant rate alongside real time. then there's turn-based and step-based.
 
@TheMaskedRebel That's a bold statement!
 
@AlexandreVaillancourt no, THIS is a bold statement!
 
@AlexMitan superhot is realtime but its enemies movement speed is multiplied by player's movement and actions speed
most fps games use variable step iirc and they average it out to be somewhat static
so if you skip an entire second, 1 frame gets multiplied 60 times to match the normal update rate
 
10:22 AM
@Hakase Yeah, but if theoretically nothing updated until you did, it would count as turn-based like when you press "End Turn" in a card game right
 
in superhot enemies move all the time, at a minimum slow rate but it's not 0 so it's not step-based technically
 
yeah, if it were 0 I mean
I'm trying to look at the distinction in theory there
 
and what you mean by turns I suppose is just triggering more enemies by passing through trigger zones
I'd rather you try to improve some game of yours :)
 
Like a roguelike basically, classic roguelikes are turn-based even though it's "one-for-one"
 
10:26 AM
@TheMaskedRebel I can't get much information from this, any comments?
it gives a sense of scale
looks like a standard third-person MMO view from far above
 
@Hakase Now you can ask
 
oh alright
what's the gameplay gonna be like?
I've only played one MMO and it's nothing to be proud of, I just gathered bushes there to the music and sold them in town while listening to music and relaxing to the monotony of the process
I like RPGs and shooters much more, like fortnite, team fortress and stardew valleys
so i'm not very well versed in what MMOs are all about
 
I'm not sure yet bu I want it to be an RPG with HIGH violence and every man to himself
@Hakase an MMO is a game in which there can be an infinite number of players in one world
 
ok so is the main mechanic just killing each other? or are there monsters you can fight together as a group of friendlies?
 
Yes everyon kills each other in the most gory and violent way possible
 
10:31 AM
I don't know many games like that but I think I know a couple close ones
have you seen Realm of the Mad God?
it's pixelarty and there can be like 200 players on one screen I think
it's a mass co-op dungeon boss raid kinda game I think
technically it's gory but it's pixel-art gore
there's pvp mode too
it's pretty fast-paced
you can destroy someone in 1-3 seconds
in dota style games you can only kill an equal level player in about 3-7 seconds at full blast
maybe it'll give you some ideas on how fast you could make yours
I gotta ask why the goriest bloodiest killfest aesthetic?
 
Is anyone here up to play an RPG
@Hakase Because that is what I like
Shoots the zombie
It explodes, its blood bursting everywhere
Licks up the blood
 
10:54 AM
so basically a battle royale rpg
 
kind of
 
how familiar are you with game dev?
 
@Proxy I've made two 2D games in Pygame, one 2D game with Jframe and I'm pretty comfortable with lwjgl and opengl
also I know the java language pretty well and can work around its flaws
 
i see.. Still tackling an ambitious 3d game and that has multiplayer is quite challenging. Maybe you should break it down into something simpler, a 1v1 game locally as the 1 step
and work up from there
 
11:10 AM
I need some help
with the wiki of my repo
@Proxy can You see this
or is it just a login screen
 
yeah i can
 
Can you help me design the wiki
 
nope
:)
 
@Proxy CAn you send me a screenshot of what you can see
 
 
11:17 AM
:)
My other repo is private so you need to create an account to view it
 
I suddenly got super busy at work
3
 
 
2 hours later…
user92578
12:50 PM
Im on a bus going home
 
user92578
Such a great feeling
 
1:01 PM
Cool!
 
1:19 PM
@AlexMitan I wish to suggest that you make it so that upon creating a GameObject instance, it's root property is set to itself in the constructor
this.root = this
Then, make it so that when you add a GameObject to a parent GameObject, the child's root property is set to the parent's root property.
 
Hello doppelgreener!
 
Ahoy!
 
How are you doing?
 
Doing great. :) You?
 
1:24 PM
Instructing people on not using loops inside of getters :) In other words great
 
:D
That was a good thing to call out
I have gotten a bit slack in the realm of web development not spotting that
 
Hello JamesAdams!
@doppelgreener Are you sure?
 
1:39 PM
Yep
 
Really sure?
 
Reasonably sure
 
user92578
1:51 PM
Yeah I try to prefix those functions with something like "Gather" or "Collect" instead of "Get"
 
in this case it was a leaf node in a tree structure iterating upwards to find its root
 
No i mean a class getter function. I don't really care what your functions are called really. Of course unless thats the biggest problem
 
user92578
what? now i dont understand
 
2 mins ago, by Tyyppi_77
Yeah I try to prefix those functions with something like "Gather" or "Collect" instead of "Get"
I don't care what their called unless thats your biggest problem
 
hmmm, come to think of it, there's 2 decent ways to do it that don't involve that loop:
1. each object, once added to the tree, is also passed a reference to the tree root.
2. the object just asks its parent node what the root is. if that parent node doesn't know, it asks *its* parent. each node stores the result once it gets it and returns that stored result next time.
#2 is basically a lazy-evaluation version of #1, #1 is more performant at O(1).
 
1:57 PM
Or
3. Just make each object it's own root, and when it adds another object to itself, set the new objects root to the parent root
 
But the point here is communicating upward to the root of the entire tree
 
I edited it
So
let Game = new GameObject()
let BlueFleet = new GameObject();
Game.root == Game;
BlueFleet.root = BlueFleet;
Game.addChild(BlueFleet);
BlueFleet.root == Game;
Game.addChild = function(child) {
  child.root = this.root;
  // rest of it
}
 
right, that's approach #1
isn't it?
 
Kinda
 
user92578
@FreezePhoenix well then your statement essentially becomes "dont use loops in functions that have return values", which is just plain stupid
 
2:02 PM
@Tyyppi_77 NO
 
i think the idea is specifically getters shouldn't be computationally heavy
the ones we access with property-like syntax rather than functions, the ones we declare with the get / set keywords in C#
 
A getter is called each time you access the property.
A function you generally only call once.
 
user92578
Well if you decide to use non standard definitions of words, define them first.
 
so he's referencing that in C# and in JavaScript, we can define getters which look like properties
i can't remember what language you wrote gunhero in & if you used one that does that
 
user92578
so what he means is "dont use loops in properties"?
 
2:04 PM
@Tyyppi_77 But... a getter is just a getter. No special words.
 
right
 
user92578
okay now i've got it, i'm used to the notation where getters and properties are separate things
 
if i say var x = this.foo, i would expect this.foo to return me a value straight away with no computational overhead, because that's how variables work. when we define a getter, it should also not do large computational overhead to provide me a value.
 
user92578
which i believe they still are in c#
 
user92578
see, a getter would be this.getFoo();
 
user92578
2:06 PM
that is a property
 
class InnerClass
{
    private int _a;
    public int a
    {
        get
        {
            return _a;
        }
        set
        {
            _a = value;
        }
    }
}
 
@Tyyppi_77 getters and properties are similar ^
 
user92578
Yes!
 
user92578
But separate.
 
2:06 PM
that's a getter/setter in C#, and I access it with: var c = new InnerClass(); var foo = c.a;
as opposed to c.getA() like we'd see in java which is obviously a function call
 
user92578
i just dont buy it
 
class MyClass {
  get a() {
    return 1
  }
  set a(newVal) {
    return;
  }
}
let myObject = new MyClass();
myObject.a; // 1
myObject.a = 2; // 2
myObject.a; //1
 
user92578
I would never call that a getter/setter doppel
 
what would you call them?
 
user92578
To me that is just a property
 
2:07 PM
@Tyyppi_77 They are accessed as properties
 
to me the part that says get { } is the getter for the property and the part that says set { } is called the setter
 
user92578
@FreezePhoenix i know, i am not an idiot
 
and since it looks like a variable it should behave like a variable, and getting it should not go off to do 100ms of work, so my getter should not be implemented such that it involves a lot of work
if i was going to do a lot of work to find the root, then instead of a this.root property I'd have this.findRoot();
 
^ That
 
user92578
Yup I agree with that guideline
 
user92578
2:09 PM
Just really strongly dislike the naming that is being used
 
i think we're in agreement on the general principles then :)
 
@Tyyppi_77 Hey it's not our fault it's ES5's fault
 
also C#'s fault
 
Maybe
 
Oh my bad, C# calls them a get accessor and a set accessor: docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/programming-guide/…
Yep, definitely blaming ECMA 2015 then, its official spec calls them getters and setters
 
2:15 PM
Dude ES5 is ES2014
I think
 
yes?
You blame ES5, I'll blame ECMA 2015, between us both versions of the specs get blamed
and we can blame ECMA 2016, and 2017, and 2018, and ...
 
Lets blame ES2020!
 
OK, yes, let's do that
Very forward thinking
(you're right also, ECMA5 = ECMA 2014, I just looked up a different version of the spec myself)
 
And while you blame, there is no work getting done :P
 
@AlexandreVaillancourt OH FINE
I'll do some work
 
2:21 PM
@doppelgreener C# people in practice call them getter and setter
:)
 
@FreezePhoenix Hehe :P
Is it overkill to make a brickbreaker with UnrealEngine?
 
@Almo I'm so relieved. I was wondering for a moment there if Javascript practice had somehow messed with my C# lingo.
I thought for sure C# folks called them getters/setters too.
 
@AlexandreVaillancourt I mean, given the kind of hardware original brickbreakers ran on, you could argue it's "overkill" to make one on a modern PC at all. I prefer to think of it as "convenient" to use powerful tech, rather than "overkill" ;)
 
Real programmers make their brickbreakers in cryengine.
 
@DMGregory Good point!
 
2:26 PM
Using proper destruction physics and realistic weather simulation for ambiance.
 
Yeah, and make sure to use Amazon for the network part :P
 
@doppelgreener Oh wow, actually, that could be really cool. I'm thinking of a brickbreaker now that's just hyper-focused on the textural details of different materials and the way they break down...
 
:D
 
Just use a hammer. Why use Unity?
 
Total rejection of abstracted arcade physics and beep bloops, all about the groan of steel and splintering of wood...
 
2:29 PM
i agree!! :D
 
@DMGregory Would it be a piece of art, or a fun game?
 
A BRICKBREAKER LIKE YOU'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE UNLIKE ALL THOSE OTHER BRICKBREAKERS WHICH ARE FOR CASUAL CHUMPS
 
A HAMMER!
 
THE HARDCORE BRICKBREAKER THAT NOBODY ASKED FOR
 
A HAMMER! A HAMMER!
 
2:30 PM
ALSO FEATURES A HAMMER!!
 
WHICH ALSO HAS ANOTHER HAMMER INSIDE!
Disclaimer: do not aim hammer at face of chest
 
Order online within the next 5 minutes and we'll ship you a hammer for FREE!
 
@AlexandreVaillancourt If I were making it, I'd aim for fun. But less in the mastering systems for high score sense and more in the cackling watching videos of building demolition sense.
 
@DMGregory a brickbreaker where you have colleagues working in some parts of the level and have to avoid them getting hurt
 
@AlexandreVaillancourt We'll also send you a second HAMMER, at NO COST
 
2:33 PM
@doppelgreener This might be turning into a pitch for a future game jam experiment...
 
It is :D
 
WE"LL ALSO SEND YOU A FREE COPY OF OUR DIGITAL LOGIC GATE BOOK!
Nice commercial folks!
How many customers do you think we'd get?
 
A MMO where the blue team builds a brick wall and red team breaks the bricks. Can the red team destroy everything?
 
2:57 PM
Yes.
 
3:11 PM
@FreezePhoenix o/
@Tyyppi_77 hey
 
Hello
 
how are you doing
 
You don't need to say hello to me in every room I'm in
 
3:32 PM
@Curio o/
 
4:05 PM
o/
 
Do you want to play an RPG @Curio
 
@Curio how are you doing?
 
@bruglesco o/
 
@TheMaskedRebel hey. How are you?
 
doing well
yourself?
 
4:14 PM
Im okay
 
hello Jimmy!
 
Hey guys!
Can you see my avatar? I think it messed up
 
@AlexMitan I can see it
 
@AlexMitan Did you see my ping from earlier today?
 
4:24 PM
heard it before I saw it
..ah
I do check my pings, which one specifically?
ah, the root thing
Yeah, that's fair. I won't have more than 4 levels of tree, and even that's pushing it
I'm just trying to reason about the event system more than the tree now
I got some neat visual upgrades using d3, to simulate event functionality
 
I heard d3 is a library.
 
I managed to decouple visual effects entirely
yeah, it's an awesome library that has svg, some physics, graphs, statistics, some math, some more graphical stuff
basically I can summon visual FX very cleanly now, like flameAnimation(svgElement, x, y)
and they remove themselves on end
so they don't get stuck in the HTML
 
Nice.
 
Right now it's pen-and-paper work, because there's a ton I could do with events, and I have to see how (and if) I should separate some event channels
 
d3 might be overkill
 
4:29 PM
Actually I find it easier to work with than canvas sometimes
Explosion:
svg.createcircle.expand.remove
versus
interpolate the size and existence of this circle per frame, and count its end date to remove it from its parent element in data
 
It's really just the same thing in the end.
BTW you may want to use requestAnimationFrame
 
Not quite, I have to render data per frame and manually interpolate instead of just calling functions at-will from wherever
It's way more work, plus I can't chain animations like "fires bullet, bullet flies, bullet hits, boom"
I'm having some trouble granularising the events, like "sender, DAMAGE, target" vs "drawbullet", "target_takedamage". Then there's effects branching from that, damage might cause a death, which sends its own message
 
Link to your game?
 
4:44 PM
hmm, regarding chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/45731588#45731588 I think in the grand scheme of things loop-to-root-of-tree isn't that bad
 
@Jimmy How come?
 
it's still probably like 10 times faster to loop through 30 pointers than to do other things people put in Properties, like converting floats to strings
 
@AlexMitan i cant
 
@Jimmy this is JS
 
I assume JS can easily jit that into something fast if your properties are static
 
4:47 PM
But, in my example, I wasn't converting
 
compare, for example, find-root-of-tree versus anything touching the DOM
 
@FreezePhoenix A man of taste, I see you also appreciate poorly-drawn day-zero prototypes
I feel like I'm getting stuck on something: how do I make animations happen non-simultaneously whereas game state evaluations do? Let's say A fires a shot at B, and that kills B, maybe also while healing A
 
@AlexMitan Wat?
 
@FreezePhoenix You asked for a link to the "game"?
 
yeh but poorly-drawn-zero prototypes
 
4:56 PM
That's what my game is so far
 
For all of you, sed gurus out there...
0
Q: How can I replace the space character in SVN dump branches name?

Alexandre VaillancourtI'd like to replace the space () character(s) in the name of the branches with an underscore (_). For example, say I have a sedtest file containing: Node-path: trunk/ Node-path: trunk/src/lib 0 Node-path: trunk/src/lib 0/bla.txt Node-path: branches/ branch0-blabla_blabla/src Node-path: branches/...

 
Most of the work has gone into making a language for the game to support user scripting
 
@AlexMitan I have 2 solutions:
 
Plus, architectures
 
1. Make whatever calles the fire event heal A
2. Make B's death call event heal A
 
4:58 PM
I mean I know how to send the events, I guess I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out how to get the animations not play at once.. I'm sketching it out now
 
Wait... setTimout?
 
The gameplay events don't need to be more complex than
A sends an attack message to B
B processes it and dies, sending a death message
A processes it and heals
 
WHOA
That's a lot of JS
 
...? not really?
it's already built into the tree thing
 
03:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

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