Game Development

Tips48

12:10 AM

whats something you would do in a building if your trying to escape

the door is locked, and finding a gun and going upstairs are already taken

(and there are lots of bad guys)

PythonInProgress

@Gajoo we're not in IRC

John McDonald

/slap PythonInProgres

Noctrine

Pick the lock

Tips48

aha

Good idea

PythonInProgress

what @Noctrine?

Tips48

12:16 AM

but i need some for the floors that aren't on the first floor

PythonInProgress

/me /slaps @JohnMcDonald back

Tips48

pip you can help haha what's something you would do in a building on, say, the 5th floor if the door is locked, there are enemies, you've already looked for a gun,e tc. (Going up the stairs is already an option)

Noctrine

Hide, go back downstairs, pick lock.

PythonInProgress

try to kick in the door

Tips48

I was considering that

PythonInProgress

12:17 AM

or hide

Tips48

I need something like..hmm

idk :D

PythonInProgress

do you have anything beside a gun?

You don't have a gun

ik

He looked for one

12:18 AM

It's just a text adventure ^_^

PythonInProgress

anything else?

Noctrine

Gun would be ineffective if there's lots of badguys anyway

6-13 bullets < lots

PythonInProgress

do you have any items?

Tips48

theoretical unlimited bullets

maybe you could look for a phone

but I'm not sure what you could do with the phone

PythonInProgress

yeah

Tips48

12:18 AM

Call 911 then survive like 10 turns?

PythonInProgress

sure

Noctrine

Strangle people 1 by 1 with the phone chord?

PythonInProgress

LOL

Tips48

break a window from a 6 story house #legit

PythonInProgress

#legit

Noctrine

12:19 AM

Home Alone

PythonInProgress

yep

Noctrine

Trap all the things

PythonInProgress

hit them one by one as they come through the door

Tips48

almost done with the game afaik

Tips48

12:48 AM

Alright I think im done

Anyone wanna play through like a 2 minute game? :D

docs.google.com/file/d/0BxOllbLlrbTbZXc5WEd1VlZGQUU/…

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

1:09 AM

It's funny how some older answered questions keep getting activity.

Tips48

mhmm

John McDonald

Blame it on Google

:) But I'm not complaining

Tips48

Alright guys, DirectX or OpenGL

Gotta pick one to start learnin

Also, if anyone has any tutorials/reads on structs in C++ and how their used that would be great

John McDonald

@Tips48 shrug I'm using neither (directly)

Tips48

which are you using?

or an engine

John McDonald

1:15 AM

XNA, which uses DX

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Hmm. Didn't "Sort Usings" normally place System.* in the top?

Tips48

ahh

I'm not sure which to try to learn

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

In Visual Studio that is.

John McDonald

:/ mine is at the top, and it's using System;, not using System.*;

Tips48

I think imma start learning OpenGL, wish me luck :D

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

1:18 AM

I was referring to all System sub namespaces as well

John McDonald

@William'MindWorX'Mariager heh, tbh, I don't even care to look at my usings anymore

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

But I got it fixed, it was a setting that had gotten turned off.

Hehe

John McDonald

yeah, they are all at the top for me

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

I'm a neat freak. I really should see if I could stop being that. :P

John McDonald

AwesomiumComponent{alt+enter}.doStuff

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

1:19 AM

Hehe

John McDonald

<3 ReSharper

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

It's a bit expensive though. Even their student license.

John McDonald

.. yeah. It's not cheap, :(

@William'MindWorX'Mariager So how have you been doing. Any game dev happening?

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Not a whole lot. Seems like forcing myself to do one project is killing my productivity completely.

John McDonald

:( I've been there

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

1:29 AM

Starting to realize I'm turning my hobby into forced labor.

On the up side, first year of school went amazing.

If I keep my grades up as I have, my average is 12.9 which is pretty nice considering 12 is the same as A.

John McDonald

yeah... I've taken many breaks along the way. Almost all projects that I took a break from were abandoned permanently. AO & TeeVee are the only 2 that stand the test of time

@William'MindWorX'Mariager Nice, 12 out of what?

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Academic grading in Denmark

In Denmark, the educational system has historically used a number of different systems of grading student performances, several of which are described below. The current grading system is the 7-trins-skala (7-step-scale) which replaced the 13-skala in 2006. Current scale Starting with the academic year 2005-06, a new scale was introduced, 7-trins-skalaen ("7-step-scale"; colloquially dubbed the 12-scale), designed to be compatible with the ECTS-scale: {| class="wikitable" |- !rowspan="2"| Grade !rowspan="2" colspan="2"| Description !colspan="3"| Equivalents |- ! 13-scale ! ECTS ! U.S....

John McDonald

In Canada (or at least Alberta), it's 0-4, 2 being a C, 4.0 being perfect: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grading_(education)#Alberta

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

@JohnMcDonald For me, my Warcraft III hacking API still lives and gets a bit of love from time to time and Legeria which I still do a few things on every now and then too, while trying to figure out what I really want with it.

But honestly, I enjoyed programming much more when jumping from project to project.

I don't have much to show for it, but a lot of small projects, but I really had a much greater time programming before.

John McDonald

@William'MindWorX'Mariager Me too. Meee tooo

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

1:34 AM

@JohnMcDonald Looking at that, I'm basically keeping a 4.3 so far. :)

John McDonald

I think age, experience, and a constant difficulty and learning curve have kept me focused on AO

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

@JohnMcDonald It's the same reason I've decided to stop trying for now. I waited with school and now it's going great. So I figure, when the time comes and I'm ready to finish a project, I'll know it. :P

John McDonald

Case and point: I have 180 directories in my .NET projects, an other 201 in my old Java projects, then 32 + 13 for ancient VB and C++ directories.

only like 5 have been active in the last decade

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Hehe, same for me. Lots and lots of small test projects.

John McDonald

Yeah. I hope I'm ready to complete AO. It has been long enough, and I have certainly sunk some hours

I seem to kinda want to

sigh. Maybe one day

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

1:40 AM

Hehe, one day it'll come.

John McDonald

yeah... at least it's fun to work on. There is always something new

That's a key for me

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Same for me. That's why I immediately liked game developing. Lots of different aspects.

John McDonald

But you also don't want to be stopped dead by a problem that you either didn't think of, or one that is out of your area of expertise or interest

I've had that way too many times

starts counting

*180 - 5 + 201 + 32.... * lol

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Hah :P

John McDonald

One thing I have learned about long running hobby projects: You can't beat yourself up for not working on it, or not wanting to work on it

It'll happen naturally... kinda

Don't come home and stare at VS for hours without doing anything.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

1:50 AM

That's what I've been doing. Which made programming a lot less fun.

John McDonald

:( yeah. Cliff Harris, an indie dev who created of Gratuitous Space Battles, Gratuitous Tank Battles, Democracy 2, etc., had an interesting blog article discussing how he kept motivated. Let me see if I can find it

heh, formatting is all whack, but: positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/2010/07/02/…

Those big gaps actually have words of inspiration. Select the text to see it

I've always especially liked #4: Do Some Shiny

And have been recently thinking (a lot) about getting a model space ship to place on my desk to satisfy #2: Surround yourself with inspiration

pew pew

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Hehe

Makes sense.

I'm a big fan of sandbox games. Should I get a tiny sandbox on my desktop? :P

You know, those with the tiny rake and everything. :D

Zen Garden or something.

John McDonald

You should get a pile of Lego!

:D

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

:P

Currently, my desktop if filled with electronics.

John McDonald

Mine is pretty clean, :( Now I'm thinking of that Einstein quote:

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” - Einstein

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

2:01 AM

:P

I like that.

John McDonald

Oh yeah

I have just been waiting for someone to tell me to clean my desk at work

It is a mess

An other few words of advice from Cliff: positech.co.uk/cliffsblog/2010/12/01/…

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Very direct. :P

John McDonald

:( Guilty of: (used to say #2, but no longer!), #3 (mostly this chat room), #4, some #5, and #11, the TV I watch isn't rubbish

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

I see myself slowly moving away from #2, but not quite there yet. 3# same as you, #4, #5 a lot, since I'm afraid my game will be outdated once I finally finish it, #9 damn you Minecraft, #11.

John McDonald

2:17 AM

Yeah... I probably (almost certainly) switch tech too much. But I'm done now, right?

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Sure. Until Awesomium 2 is released

:P

John McDonald

heh, yeah.

I still need to upgrade to 1.7

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Not much gained though. :)

Unless I've missed something.

John McDonald

No?

I donno, didn't read the release notes

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

I actually used to be very guilty of #10.

Now I just waste time optimizing old code. :P

John McDonald

2:22 AM

Oh yeah, me too actually. I never used to use anyone else's code

ever

I would my own old code, sometimes, though

With a bunch of old projects, there were always a couple useful bits to grab

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

I've gotten a bit more lax with rewriting old things. If it works, don't fix it.

John McDonald

YeS

Someone was in here recently who found my QuadTree implementation and was a little surprised that the latest update was like a year ago. And I was like: It works, doesn't it?

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Hehe

John McDonald

I wasn't quite so blunt, but yeah, hardly worth revisiting if there aren't problems

Tips48

I don't understand DirectX :(

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

2:28 AM

It's a pretty big thing to attempt to understand

John McDonald

@Tips48 Join the club

Tips48

holy fuckkkkkkkkkkkkk

DICE is developing a new Star wars battlefront?!?!?!?!

My childhood is back!@#$&)@#*&$

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

@JohnMcDonald, With Awesomium 1.7 I get around 4000 FPS during movement in google maps. :)

I'd say that's pretty decent. :P

John McDonald

:O

I need to update

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

I wonder if it's possible to find a tiny parser that'll allow some basic inlined code. Like fetching text from a DB inside the html. :P

I guess javascript along with callbacks would be sufficient for that.

John McDonald

2:43 AM

hmm, yeah. I've found the very defined line between game and UI to be rather pleasant actually.

I do find that I'm passing quite a lot of JSON from my C# to my jQuery though, but it hasn't been limiting, it's actually been a little bit freeing

My game is all like: "Blehhhh... here's all the data for the selected entities, do stuff", And the HUD is like: "Cool, I'll display this, and this, and that, done, thanks"

Sounds really wasteful, and it probably is, but man, it's just easy

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

I doubt it's going to be a problem.

A clear line means the game can focus on what it needs to do and the interface can do what it wants to do.

Similar to keeping rendering logic outside the actual game engine.

John McDonald

@William'MindWorX'Mariager Hopefully not.

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

I've been doing the same with Legeria. Decoupling rendering from the engine.

John McDonald

Cool. I need to separate my engine from my game sometime, but not today

John McDonald

3:27 AM

Yeah... and I thought I was going to get nothing done tonight:

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Yay! Colored lines. <3

John McDonald

:D

Tips48

wats dat @JohnMcDonald?

God, the learning curve for 2D graphics is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much lower with Java than C++

John McDonald

Right now, It's some coloured lines. Soon... it will be an in-game performance graph

@Tips48 lol! That's basically why I use XNA

Tips48

lol

it's sooo frustrating

in java it was like an hour and you can make a game

It's been like 5 hours and I still don't get anything >_<

John McDonald

3:43 AM

:/ yeah... C++ isn't the easiest of languages to make games in

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

There's no point in making games in C++ unless you have specific needs

Development time in C++ is much much longer than most any other language

John McDonald

++

(as in +1, as in "I agree")

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

:P

John McDonald

You never know, :p

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Btw, going to a SDC this summer on the university I'm planning on going to.

I'm pretty excited.

No clue what to expect.

John McDonald

3:47 AM

heh, top google result for "SDC": Swingers Date Club. Of course you're excited and have no clue what to expect. LOL

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Haha

Software Developer Camp :P

Similar to GDC but less game

John McDonald

lol, that makes much more sense. Owch my cheeks hurt

Tips48

@William'MindWorX'Mariager but what happens when you want to develop for consoles?

John McDonald

What will you be doing at this camp?

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

@Tips48 You use Unity. :P

@JohnMcDonald Not sure. that's why I'm excited. :P We've been told to leave our laptops at home.

Tips48

3:52 AM

your telling me AAA artist use unity? lol

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

@Tips48 I think artists use Photoshop and other artisty tools. :P Unity is a framework for games.

Tips48

i meant AAA development studios >_<

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Anyways, are you an AAA development studio?

John McDonald

++

Tips48

:D

user4704

3:54 AM

@Tips48 They could very well.

Tips48

ohai josh

In case you were wondering @JoshPetrie I've been going through your answers all night because their so insightful :D

learned a lot

user4704

I see.

user4704

Looks like ViEmu has gotten a port to Xcode.

user4704

This could be very cool.

sm4

4:16 AM

@JoshPetrie alright Josh, I am here

sorry for that last comment, I was thinking how to react to the edit and did not notice your comment :)

Can i maybe change the question to: What to they teach instead?

That is more important, I can decide how to benefit from it myself

Oh, I see from your last comment what you meant.

user4704

Yeah, what they teach varies wildly.

sm4

maybe put the question on hold for now, let's decide if it is ok for the site

user4704

I think it's a good question, but it's basically life advice and not really game development related :)

user4704

(I think, basically, that if you're going to put that kind of time and money into it, but not attempt to capitalize on that investment by getting a job, you're wasting that time and money)

user4704

Most "game design" and "game development" degrees are crap anyway.

sm4

4:21 AM

well, I do need information to make decision. From the websites it's hard to decid, because they advertise somthing they can't give you

Learning how to design SUPER games :)

@JoshPetrie If that is true, then its a waste of money :)

Tips48

I can't find a single good resource for beginners for modern OpenGL

user4704

@Tips48 arcsynthesis.org/gltut opengl.org/documentation/current_version

Tips48

@JoshPetrie what version was that made for?

sm4

> However, if you are talking about spending years of your life and several thousands of dollars to do so, and you're not really expecting to take that investment and capitalize on it to achieve a return (which is to say: get a job as a game designer), it's probably a waste of that time and money.

This is not true, that would mean people won't invest in any hobbies. And some hobbies are really expensive. And being a hobby programmer also doesn't mean you are doing it completely for free.

user4704

@Tips48 The first is probably 3ish, the latter is the latest API.

Tips48

4:25 AM

cool

user4704

The difference between 3 and modern (4) is not massive.

user4704

@sm4 You're talking about the order of a collage education here. Some people do spend a lot on hobbies, but don't let that be an excuse to justify spending your money unintelligently.

sm4

@JoshPetrie Then you should mention in your answer that those colledges are crap :) (in better words)

user4704

Yeah, I just annotated the answer based on that discussion.

sm4

Alright, now the answer makes a lot of sense

Tips48

4:30 AM

I've yet to see an entry level programming job going through these jobs..They all go from internships to 1-2 years experience

sm4

I miss studying, so I considered signing up for something. THis looked like a good idea... Moreover I can move almost anywhere I want, so I was looking for a place to go.

user4704

@Tips48 Often people don't advertise for them.

Tips48

I figured josh

sm4

@Tips48 I never really considered job in game industry. When I was looking, it was all startups or bad pay or both. That was like 8 years ago ;) After that I moved to very lucrative field of enterprise java :)

Not that startups are bad, but most of them are enddowns now.

user4704

And the point about low pay is valid.

user4704

4:36 AM

Unless you are particularly good at negotiating, you'll probably be underpaid; negotiating for your salary is not a skill most people have when they graduate college. Especially the ones who want to be game developers.

sm4

@JoshPetrie That is true probably everywhere ;) I always thought the game companies exploit the fact that those people actually want to make games and probably don't know what it means.

Tips48

I mean assuming your not talking about extremely low I think i'll be okay.. I'm interested in say going to college for Game Development because it's my passion not because I love money xD

If I wanted money, I would become a brain surgeon

user4704

@Tips48 Don't. Get a real CS degree (assuming programming is your thing).

Tips48

Yeah I meant CS

sm4

CS course did not teach me much about programming. I actually learned most of what I do now myself to be able to complete some tasks from my Computer Graphics teacher :)

But it thought me a way to think which I use all the time.

user4704

5:04 AM

Well the point of a CS degree is not to learn how to program. That's the simple bit

sm4

@JoshPetrie It was a reaction to this post. I am not sure how in US, but in Europe a lot of countries will have a technical degree (called Engineer) and a theoretical degree (equivalent to Master of Science). CS on my university gives you MS, but a lot of companies prefer the Engineering degree (no idea what is the equivalent in the west :))

What I mean is that you should pursue computer science degree if you can do with all the science, math especially. It's not easy and many of my fellow students dropped out just because they were not able to deal with it.

user4704

@sm4 I'm confused about the chain of chat linking. What is "it" and "this post?"

user4704

@sm4 Yea, I agree with that.

sm4

I linked it to: Get a real CS degree (assuming programming is your thing).

I forgot to link the previous message to it.

Conclusion: Get a real CS degree assuming programming is your thing and you can stand all the math :)

user4704

Yea, I see what you linked to, I'm just having trouble following the first sentence.

user4704

5:16 AM

But yea, I mention programming in that context only because I wasn't sure if, for example, art was his thing.

sm4

I should learn to press enter more often :D

@JoshPetrie Yeah, CS degree for an artist is a bad thing :D

But I saw some weird combinations at my school. E.g. one of my professors was really good in computer linguistics. So good that some linguistics students from other school signed up for his theoretical courses.

And then they had to go back and study a lot of math :D

meszar.imola

5:53 AM

Hello, guys :) Bye56 linked me this chat several hours ago, and now I have some time to join you, if it's not a problem.

user4704

@meszar.imola Hi.

user4704

The chat is mostly dead this time of day.

user4704

It's quite late in the US, where most of the regulars are.

meszar.imola

Here is quite early - I just made my first coffee today. My aim is not about to have long, argumented discussions with you, just to discuss with somebody who is interested in game development area. I'm a mobile developer (especially iOS) and quality control engineer, just passing from junior level to mid level, and in the last weeks I started at the evenings, after work to develop some games, in flash, just as a hobby.

So - if you are going to sleep, then good night, and see you soon :)

Alex M.

8:03 AM

done with another exam

I should be passing this one without issues

one more to go and I'm done

meszar.imola

hey, Alex, what kind of exam did you take?

Alex M.

algorithms and data structures

it was fairly simple

meszar.imola

what kind of thesis did you get?

Alex M.

insertion in a binary search algorithm with a twist

travelling through a binary tree per levels and doing something

meszar.imola

wow, nice

Alex M.

8:08 AM

rotations inside AVLs

and some random multi-choice questions about stuff

hope I didn't mess up any answer there

meszar.imola

Alex, are you attending Babes-Bolyai or Poli? :)

Alex M.

bolyai

meszar.imola

me too :)

Alex M.

cool :D

so you're the third Romanian I meet here

meszar.imola

:D yeah, man would expect to meet random people on an international community

Alex M.

8:13 AM

funny thing is, gd.se is pretty small

meszar.imola

yes, it is :D

Alex M.

yawn

I wonder if there's a way to get rid of the exam stress

once again, I haven't slept a bit last night

meszar.imola

yes, it is - go to sleep and go to bring some beer

Alex M.

the beer is for this evening, once I get my result lolz

ain't sleeping now, there's code to be written

meszar.imola

:)

Alex M.

8:26 AM

woohoo the stupid neighbors with their stupid dogs finally get it

people complained and threatened they'll get the police + other shit if those beasts don't shut the fuck up

every.single.person.in.Cluj.has.one.of.these

they sound like a kid screaming

and are so annoying

meszar.imola

i have a dog too, but not of this stupid tzpe

*type

Alex M.

if I were to buy a dog, I'd be getting a tall sized Japanese Spitz

or are those pomeranians actually?

I always mix them up

meszar.imola

my neighbors have about two, and we used to go out to walk them with my dog + those bichons... they are quite stupid, cannot learn anything, aren't friendly at all

it's a bichon

Alex M.

I've yet to see a japspitz or a pompom in Romania

@meszar.imola yeah and everyone has them X_X

I've seen one in my hometown too

of course, nu poate fi decat al pitzipoancei orasului <--- no idea how to translate this

pitzipoanca = bimbo?

meszar.imola

:D something like that

Alex M.

8:32 AM

yeah, the town's bimbo has one

meszar.imola

roasted whore, maybe:P

Alex M.

so yeah, for going out in town I'd totally get a tall dog with a long fur coat

meszar.imola

:D

Alex M.

for a large yard, I'd get a big mastiff

those are awesome

d'awwwwww

meszar.imola

isn't this a chow-chow?

Alex M.

8:34 AM

nope, it's a japspitz

chow-chows are more..

fat

as in having fur fat

their fur is fatter

you get it

meszar.imola

both have fur :P

Alex M.

but only one of them looks fat because of it :D

meszar.imola

but indeed, chow-chow is fatter

Alex M.

the japspitz is the peak of companion canine beauty imo

those bichons are just average

and just wait until they start dressing them up

meszar.imola

i usually don't like dogs only because of their "interface" - i mean, how they look like

yes, this is the main point, i think, their intelligence

Alex M.

8:37 AM

yeah, I didn't choose that mastiff because it's damn beautiful after all

I obviously wouldn't count on a japspitz to protect a yard

Blue

I recently got rats after years and years of having dogs

So much easier to take care of in a small flat.

meszar.imola

yes

Alex M.

ah, I wouldn't keep a pet in an appartment

Blue

Rats are pets :D

meszar.imola

ok, I think, i disappear for few hours

- i have to work finally something :))

Alex M.

8:39 AM

it's a pity the tibetan mastiff costs so much

meszar.imola

have a nice day, and see you

Alex M.

cya mate

Blue

I'm trying to figure out how to make a hat for @PythonInProgress

meszar.imola

good luck at your exams

:)

Alex M.

fun fat: the tibetan mastiff can kill lions, and is reported to have done so quite often

@meszar.imola thanks :D

meszar.imola

8:40 AM

=))

Alex M.

@Blue make it in two colours: yellow and blue

I think those are the colours of the python logo

Blue

8:55 AM

I was thinking of making it the same as his eclipse picture but in the shape of the hat.

chat.stackexchange.com/users/75273/pythoninprogress

Alex M.

you didn't customize ours that much :'(

YOU LOVE PIP MORE THAN YOU LOVE ME AND TODDERS

YOU MONSTER

Blue

You did that yourself by putting it on a UNICORN

Alex M.

sob

give him the hat and let him put it on then

Blue

PONY AINT GOT SHIT ON MY HAT. I AM THE ONE AND ONLY - Ches

He won't be able to put it on, it'll be made of refracted light from the hat shaped moon

Alex M.

a hat shaped moon

Blue

8:57 AM

Yes

Alex M.

how you break my heart :(

Blue

This statement is perfectly normal.

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