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00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

6:00 PM
I feel ya
I haven't done enough fun things in AO recently. Maybe some particles next, or a missile
hmm, maybe explosions with debris
 
@JohnMcDonald I do everything, as long as I learn something new along the way, either you pay me or not!
in this case developing a website will result in learning some new language (though I pretty ugly one)
 
what you guys think on that if you had a game's source code stolen
 
@tylerrrr07 by giving a domain now, everyone will win a pre-alpha release of my game right now!
:D
 
i want a pre alpha :D
 
@Dave why would your source get stolen?
And honestly I don't care
 
6:07 PM
you need at least two other people around yourself to be able to play
 
to make their own similiar game the lazy way
 
If someone wants to make their game their gonna make it
Angry Birds didn't steal source
 
i dont think u get the point here...
 
I would let them steal my codes, if there is anyone being able to decrypt my codes, without me being attached to it. he has the full rights to use every byte of it!
 
u can lose market share if some one steals your code before you even release.
if its not copyright u have no claim for losses in court
 
6:10 PM
Where are you putting your source that you need to worry about it getting stolen?
 
u are aware my game is browser based right ?
the entire thing is viewable.
n any one can steal your code if they hacked you're pc.
 
you don't have a server component for this multiplayer game?
 
thats not the entire game thats only a portion of it
if you wanted to make a game on android market to make money some one robs it and releases before you with you're own code
you will simply lose you're chance
 
simple advice don't let unauthorized people access your laptop/desktop !
 
the fact their unauthorized means you probably didn't intend them to do in the first place
aka hackers
 
6:12 PM
I guess if source stealing is a huge concern of yours then you chose the wrong language / platform
 
@tylerrrr07 you really don't get it at all.
 
hackers don't have any powers unless you let them to.
and why do you think a hacker would try to hack you?
 
@Dave Your code is yours, reading this article more carefully, no source exchanged hands
 
the "reasons" "odds" etc are completely irrelevant to the point here guys seriously.
 
They merely copied what the code did, without looking at the code
 
6:13 PM
if u spend months on a game id like to feel it was my copyrighted idea
 
It is
its called intellectual property
the code is not though
 
they deemed it not copyrightable in the EU @tylerrrr07
 
Ideas are intellectual property, code is not
 
you're code is designed on you're idea if they use the same code it has the same idea lol
if they change the code - then perhaps it no longer is you're idea
 
I guess we are going to have to disagree then
 
6:16 PM
by all means but if your game gets stolen n posted online don't moan about it :P
unless your in the usa then its fine cos they probably deem it you're copyright
 
I think Google should win the case against Oracle because code is just implementation of an idea. If someone wants to steal my game they don't need my code
 
Where in that article does it say that source code was stolen?
 
I don't know what article we are talking about
 
it doesn't but if u can't copyright it - then that allows people to.
 
What happened?
 
6:17 PM
@tylerrrr07 Technically, code is protected by IP laws, ideas are not.
 
For the first case: "WPL used and studied those programs in order to understand their functioning but there is nothing to suggest that WPL had access to or copied the source code of the SAS components." - zdnet.com/blog/btl/…
 
On which topic is discussion on?
 
Unless you count patents as ideas.
 
@Damir not any more EU ruled it no longer protected
 
"Google denies it copied the source code"
 
6:18 PM
course that must be true cos they said it..
but if you can't have it protected according to EU then google now CAN copy the source code....
 
@Dave Copyright doesn't cover code anymore??? Got a source on that?
 
As in the first case, you don't need the source code to replicate functionality
 
@JohnMcDonald just cos you don't need to - it is highly more convenient to copy some one else's labour
 
Programming languages are not code.
They say you cannot copyright a language spec.
 
@Damir but it now allows you copy people's code n use it without even changing it cos it cannot be copyrighted.
 
6:19 PM
What you write with it is still protected.
@Dave No
It's like real languages and books
You cannot copyright a language.
 
well its what they been debating on the news here
about source code copying
 
But you can copyright words that you have put in your book.
 
I think you're misreading "Programming Language" as "Source Code"
 
u cldnt claim the source code as you're copyright is the problem they debating about
because its all just a programming language that no one claims ownership of
 
I still think you are misreading the arguments
 
6:22 PM
im just going by the debate that was on bbc news earlier
 
Read the second excerpt from the courts
 
that court case has no mention of it
the point is it would b v.difficult now to protect your source code
 
"the Court holds that neither the functionality of a computer program nor the programming language and the format of data files used in a computer program in order to exploit certain of its functions constitute a form of expression"
WHERE does it say that?
I don't see it
 
So I have to take back my argument... allowing people to copy code freely would kill open source
I wasn't thinking
 
@tylerrrr07 can I later put a binary to run on your server?
 
6:23 PM
dude it doesn't but it was explained in the bbc debate i said 4 times now.
 
I mean while I'm testing/developing the server application
 
@tylerrrr07 not all code is open source ya know .... just thought ud like to know that.
 
@Dave ....
 
so you're point is invalid in that situation
 
@Dave Well, news reporters are often wrong, and I would bet that they are confused about the difference between "Programming Language" and "Source Code"
 
6:24 PM
Your comment is offensive... FYI
 
well then don't be sarcastic about open source..
@JohnMcDonald possibly
 
@Gajet I don't have actual access to the server so you can't actually run anything on it. It just hosts web stuffs
 
Right now, I think what you're saying is just conjecture
 
@tylerrrr07 it's still good enough, I guess I'll be using my brother's PC as the main server till then
 
There was no sarcasm. If people can copy code freely without consequence what is the point of open source? (Free speech, not free beer)
 
6:26 PM
@tylerrrr07 none of this was related to open source which specifically means its free to use under what ever criteria is set out
gaming companies rarely do open source they want to protect their engine source alot.
 
I guess I'm talking to you because clearly you aren't understanding
 
well no one mentioned open source.. so i dunno why you brought it up.
 
GUYS GUYS
don't argue about something that really doesn't matter!
 
@Dave Actually, licencees can get the complete source for some engines.
 
we are literate people gathered here. (or at least I think we are)
 
6:27 PM
@Damir yeh but the licence is their financial protection
 
bbl (taking a bath)
 
@Dave its not protection if people are allowed to freely copy code. I know this isn't the ruling. I'm just saying that I have to take back what I said about being ok with it because such a freedom would kill any license where source is available (primarily Open Source applications)
 
@tylerrrr07 ah i see i misunderstood then, sorry!
 
6:52 PM
@Gajet do you have gtalk, skype, etc so that we can discuss more secure matters pertaining to the site?
 
@JohnMcDonald I find their need to blow everything out of proportion the most annoying. "FBI hacked by Anonymous!" aka "Anonymous DDoS some web server which hosts FBI's website".
 
heh, yeah
10 more messages, and I'll have the big 10k, :O
 
Use them wisely
 
I still can't believe the first ACM SIGGRAPH proceeding. It just leaves me in shock how young the CG field is.
 
that's... pretty nuts. More than 10% of chat messages have been produced by me, :/
 
6:59 PM
@tylerrrr07 I'm always loged in using my gmail account
alisattari.coder@gmail.com
@tylerrrr07 also I'm almost always logged in in my steam account
 
hmm
I think I always do gtalk wrong lol
their +Add button sends invites instead of adding someone to my list
 
@tylerrrr07 it both sends invite and add the person to your list, but later is only happening if I approve your invitation
 
Ahhh
 
@JohnMcDonald Chat messages where?
 
Don't make we waste them!
:p
:(
(in case it wasn't obvious: over 10% of chat messages in this very room have been produced by me, yikes: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/19/game-development)
 
7:11 PM
@JohnMcDonald you sure talk alot
 
:( yeah... I guess I do eh?
 
I'm thinking about myself being too much talkative last week, posting more than 1.2k in one week
or maybe two weeks ago
 
well, I average 353 per week. So I'd like to attribute the 10k messages to sticking around so long
 
I'm number two on the frequent list? :P
Funky
 
you also talk alot,
 
7:14 PM
Hey! @tylerrrr07 updated his image. I need to clear my cache
 
but I'm a poor guy who doesn't speak unless he's wanted too
 
@tylerrrr07 happy new avatar
 
7.7k messages! :|
 
Countdown! 9999!
10k! EPIC!
 
@JohnMcDonald You should've said something epic :P
 
nope you are at 10101
 
@Gajet 10101 in all chat rooms, 10k here, I think
@Damir Fixed
 
@JohnMcDonald Good :D
 
yep exactly 10k here
 
7:19 PM
...
Wth...

Yep

Mar 27 at 6:20, 27 minutes total – 3 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked Mar 27 at 8:43 by Randomman159

 
?
How do you even do that?
 
No clue. Ask Randomman159? :P
 
@JohnMcDonald I've once noted a link about marking a conversation
I somehow tracked a conversation and in that window I could mark it as intressting
 
hmm. Interesting
 
aha found it
you can bookmark a conversation at there
 
7:25 PM
Sweet
 
@tylerrrr07 why should i always specify title?
what if I want to post a title less message?
 
Title would be the title of hte page, blog post, etc.
I'm not sure that makes sense?
 
I've seen it done before, but it's not all that common
 
being able to put a title is nice, but I don't like the idea of being forced to do so
 
Well I could give you ftp access and you could modify the source code :P
 
7:28 PM
eg. This guy has some titles (in a yellow blob) and others with no title: rageeffect.com
 
hmm
 
Not entirely sure I care for it. My RSS/article reader just uses the first sentence as the title
I'm also a fan of long-dates, as in ones that actually include the year
 
Damn, the ACM does stop me manually getting papers. :/ I guess I read too much
 
lol
 
@tylerrrr07 I'll soon be uploading pre-alpha version,
or I guess pre-pre-alpha version
 
7:34 PM
sweet
If you have troubles through the web let me know and I think I should be able to get you ftp access
 
tyler, who is that offer for?
I just did this. I search a blank term in the ACM.
Then I got the first paper that was a Crytek SIGGRAPH course, and started crawling by myself trough the references.
I skim the papers, save them if I like them and move on.
 
Sorry, that was for Gajet
 
I only got 50 MBs by the look of it.
LOL i think I just blocked ACM Digital Library for my whole institution. xD
 
heh, that sucks
 
Not for me, I got enough papers for today and tomorrow.
The bitchy part is that I am technically in HS, and finals and project deliveries are this week.
So assuming they delivered a time based ban, and that the institution was using a proxy, that means I just blocked access to about 500 users. xD
I got many 70s ->90s computer graphics stuff.
I think I even downloaded the Phong and Gouraud papers.
 
7:50 PM
What are people's opinions on services such as Disqus for commenting systems on blogs / websites?
 
Dunno, tumblr just broke on me and it doesn't look like it will get fix.
 
user4704
@tylerrrr07 Comments are a waste of time, imo, I turn them off.
 
Yeah, just leave an email for people to contact you in case they have questions.
 
8:14 PM
@tylerrrr07 I can't upload 4.5MB :(
 
whats the error?
 
I guess server timeout
 
hmm
adding it under media I assume?
 
yep
 
file extension?
 
8:18 PM
zip
 
whats in the zip though?
 
I start uploading it with average 20kbps and it fails after almost uploading 30%
@tylerrrr07 an "executable + image + another custom format compressed file"
 
hmm
I get an error when I try to upload a zip saying that the file type isnt allowed
weird
if I click upload anyway...
500 internal server error
 
timed out again
 
alright fixed it on my site
now I'll do it on yours
Ok the fix is in - the app pool will be recycling so you may notice a long load time for a second
 
8:40 PM
lol, awesome nebula fail for AO: i.imgur.com/bcql0.jpg
 
I spoted 2. Incosistency in naming and an aim mark in the lower right corner
Which one are you talking about?
 
I'm looking at the stars
but yes, those are both true
Those black specs are "stars"
 
You sure they are not asteroids?
 
@tylerrrr07 how can I remove the default orchid post?
 
Blog -> Manage Blog - > Check box next to the post -> Actions -> Delete
Actually
that looks like it might not be a post
 
8:44 PM
@fabianhjr Pretty sure I know what I'm trying to draw
 
it's not
 
Oh it is yours? xD
 
hah, yeah
 
Well, dunno if you hadn't mentioned it I would still think they were asteroids.
 
8:45 PM
Check Widgets and then check the default and home page layers to see if its in there
 
@tylerrrr07 upload failed :(
after long time, just give me an ftp account!
 
Same error or something different?
 
this time it was different
I was able to upload but
Uploading media file failed: Argument must be a non empty string
Parameter name: folderPath
 
@fabianhjr Before I messed with it, it looked like this: cell.stat-life.com/images/projects/AsteroidOutpost/…
 
did you create a folder to put this stuff in?
 
8:46 PM
yep,
 
Interesting, what changes did you performed in addition of a skybox/background?
 
yeah... I'm trying to make the background a little more interesting, so I'm trying to add a nebula.. of sorts
 
can you email me the zip file? I'll troubleshoot whats going on
 
How did you made your stars? I could guess you initially inverted the colors where there were stars.
 
8:49 PM
I think I can fix the stars by removing the dim ones
 
:/ how did you do it still?
GLSL? glColor *= -1?
 
I draw a sub-section of a texture, over and over
 
now I've done something bad, after all those things I've wrote there I just deleted everything
 
oh ok, then why does it invert the colors? Do you have only 1 skybox?
 
why is orchard that stupid, what if I don't want my blog title to be glowing at top?
 
8:51 PM
It's "inverting" because there are actually really dim stars (close to black) and they show up when drawn over the bright nebula
 
Oh ok, then you have it all figured out!
 
I hope so...
 
:P I will keep the screen as a reminder of looking at textures first. xD
 
heh, yeah
 
@Gajet You may have to develop your own theme
if thats the case
 
8:55 PM
I've adopted to jurnalist, it makes more sence
but I'll repost everything tomorrow, deleting everything was just too bad
can't you find any change history of some kind?
@tylerrrr07 also I've sent you the mail right now,
nope gmail doesn't let me send it, it contains executable file!
 
just change the executable extension to .zip
or something
 
google can't open rar files?
I've compressed it to rar
and I've marked message to send when uploading finished.
good night for now
and thanks alot for the blog
 
np
see ya
 
 
2 hours later…
10:34 PM
got it all working, it looks good
now i need to figure out how to implement a spritesheet
 
10:54 PM
question: is gameTime.ElapsedGameTime.TotalSeconds a constant?
 
Only if you have isFixedTimeStep set to true
 
i logged it at .0167 earlier, but that isnt indicative across all platforms or instances, is it?
 
and even if isFixedTimeStep is true, it's not guaranteed really
 
i have a pretty clever way of handling inter-tile movement if i do so so myself
it doesnt really rely on a fixed value for that
but itd be helpful if i could count on it
 
10:56 PM
i take the tile width, and multiply it by the ratio between gameTime.ElapsedGameTime.TotalSeconds and the time it should take for a character to move between 2 adjacent tiles
yea i wont set that to true, no need for now
@JohnMcDonald ever done sprite sheet stuff?
 
you bet
 
got any good tutorials/resources you know of? i found one but its like some rotating cat with some effects overlayed on top of it
im looking to have a little character have a walk animation
 
this is XNA, right?
 
yea
 
I don't know any links to tutorials, but I could try to explain it
 
11:00 PM
sure, if you're willing
i have a sheet of sprites showing the character in different states of his animation
walking left, right, etc
 
If you're making a sprite sheet, save yourself some headache and make a grid where each cell contains 1 frame
I like to organize mine with rotations/orientations in columns, then frames for the sequences in rows below that
 
so for a 3 step animation for movement
its a 4x3 table of sprites
 
Umm, ok... so. Really, the only trick to working with spritesheets is figuring out a way to logically store and refer to frames of a particular animation
3-step animation, requires 3 frames
Ok... let's start with something simple
What do you have for a sprite or spritesheet now?
(btw, like 90% of spritesheets you find on the net are a pain to work with because they don't use a grid)
 
yea im making mine from scratch
i have a huge spritesheet i got from online
but im breaking it into a grid system for each character in ps
what kind of padding do you normally do between sprites
 
As much as is required
As long as you use a real grid
 
11:07 PM
when you say grid do you mean like actually draw grid lines on the sheet?
 
A sheet like this is a pain to figure out imo: gamemedia.wcgame.ru/data/2011-07-17/game-sprite-sheet.jpg
 
or just organizing the margins so theyre even
 
No no, I just mean a logical grid
 
ok yea
 
Pick a frame size, and stick with it
Especially for the first sheet, and I would say always, unless you are making an iPhone game where the RAM is really limited, or if you provide an XML or JSON file with the image that describes each frame
 
11:09 PM
im just giving a margin of 1 px for each sprite
 
What does your sprite look like?
Unless you give me an image, I'm going to describe how to use that one ^
Alright... using this guy: http://www.gameprogrammer.net/pics/outside/spritesheet.jpg
It's 400x400, and there are 8 frames per walking animation across, and 8 rotations/orientations: SE, S, SW, W, etc
each frame is therefore 400/8 x 400/8 = 50x50
 
@JohnMcDonald im working on getting one to show right now, sorry
 
the point of the grid is that each sprite should start at the same position
well, that position as a factor of the sprite's height and width
right?
 
Long story short: there's a parameter in the spriteBatch.Draw() that allows you to specify the source rectangle. You just need to increment the X or Y in increments of the sprite's width or height
 
11:17 PM
ah yea ive seen that param
usually just null i
it*
 
yeah, null means "draw the whole image"
 
its annoying because some of the sprites at 15px wide with others are 14
so im trying to figure out the best way to normalize it
probably just call it 16 each, give the 14 ones a px of margin on each side, the 15 ones only a px on one side
these are also the reverse of what you were talking about
but thats how they were grouped from the source sheet i got online
 
I wouldn't worry about this 1px border, just add that 1px "border" to the width/height of each frame
Just be sure to make each frame the same width/height
 
yea
im bout to post something that'll be much better
gave it some actual grid lines just for some clarity
 
11:38 PM
Ok. Some sheets will actually include the grid, but I think it will just hurt the math unless you are able to make 2 transparent colours
 
i can remove it easily enough
 
the end result is the width of each sprite is 16 with a height of 21
 
spriteBatch.Draw(texture, screenLocation, new Rectangle(frameX * spriteWidth, frameY * spriteHeight, spriteWidth, spriteHeight), Color.White);
with the border, you won't be able to use frameX * spriteWidth and frameY * spriteHeight, but that's the basic logic to use a spritesheet
where frameX and frameY are column and row indexes for the frame you want to display
 
oh yea of course
 
11:46 PM
from there, you can make it as complicated or as simple as you want it
I've made two animation systems that I can think of
each more flexible than the last
 
im trying to figure this spacing out here
 
yeah, I'd avoid the 1px border you have in there
and there's no reason to squeeze the frames in as tight as possible
 
yea
but how do you normalize that rectangle then?
 
you asking how do I, or how do you?
 
how does one
 
11:54 PM
It doesn't really matter. For a sprite so small, I just pick the largest frame, then make that the "frame size" and go from there
It is not uncommon to have large gaps between frames: envygames.com/share/sample_animation.jpg
 
hm
so my sprites are 16x21
 
wouldnt i want to line the sprites up so i can write a method that returns sprite 2,3 for instance
 
Yes, you still want to line them up both vertically and horizontally into rows and columns
 
right they line up that way, thats what i made that grid for just so i could visualize it
but im thinking now id prob want to get rid of the grid and push the sprites into each other
so you just move to the next 16x21 section of the sheet to draw the next sprite
 
11:58 PM
yeah... two solutions:
1) erase the borders when you're done
2) Use something like Paint.Net that allows you to enable a grid view without actually drawing a grid
 
@JMRboosties You know you can set a grid in GIMP/Photoshop/Whatever-you-use-that-is-not-mspaint?
 
@Damir, yup
 
yea, i use grids right now in ps
 
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