@Shalvenay Maybe start with something in the opium family? It's supposed to make people very sleepy and docile. The big problem will be dosing... You have to figure out a big enough dose to keep them calm, but small enough that it isn't going to make them overdose. Since werewolf metabolism is kind of unknown, they may get it out of their system very fast, in which case you might want a drip ready to plug in, but it might not be that efficient, and a drip would make things worse...

Best bet, have a combat veterinarian standing by.

Or... get a clinical psychiatrist that doesn't have any family and wants an adventure, and let them get bitten by the werewolf. Then they can really empathize with the wild werewolf and really speak their language. Combine that with the MDMA and you could make some real progress.

On a side note, can we stop calling the UFO stuff a conspiracy theory, and instead start calling the people saying they don't exist conspiracy theorists?

Not saying it's aliens... It could just be super highly advanced terrestrial aircraft... that got their advanced technology from aliens.

@AndyD273 heh

@Green Quit lurking. It's creepy.

@AndyD273 Do me a favor, check this out when you get a chance and let me know what you think. @NexTerren @Green I'd be curious for your feedback too

@James "what were you doing?" "Lurking."

@James what caught your attention?

Is that new? I saw the one he did with Rogan a while ago, but I can watch it again just to refresh my memory

@James did you see the one I sent you on hangouts?

@Green Your little avatar picture thing was shiny

@AndyD273 I am not great at checking hangouts...

Ill give it a watch.

@AndyD273 Yeah its the Rogan one. Its a good interview

He makes a compelling argument in my mind, curious what you think.

@James So I have mixed thoughts on UBI; On the one hand, I can see where an extra $1000 a month that is not dependent on a job or income would be really nice. One of the problems with being on public assistance is when you get a raise that just barely puts you up over the threshold where you don't qualify any more, so "yay! I got a raise! oh, and now I have less money per month..." It's a really hard mental hole to get out of, to say "I won't hold myself back". UBI would get around that.

Yeah it seems dumb that working harder/getting a better job would make you worse off. It incentivizes the wrong thing.

On the other hand, 1.6 trillion extra is a lot of money, and I'm wondering if anyone has done the math on how high of a VAT we'd have to have to pay for that. Plus, an 18yo would be able to do really well on just $1000 a month, so will there be much incentive to move out of the parents basement, get a job, etc? For that matter, a lot of older people could make that same choice, just live in a van, or a tent on the beach, or whatever, and not contribute at all.

It's enough to survive on, but not enough to live on.

But on the gripping hand, Yang and Gabbard are the ONLY two sane ones running on the democrat side, so I REALLY hope one of them can somehow get past the gate keepers and get the ticket.

And even Yang has been dragged away a bit by the far left undertow.

So, I'm trying to decide what to do.

Buy a place now in the hopes UBI will get rammed through and cause massive inflation?

So I have extra money to pay the pre-inflation bill?

Or wait until after the economy crashes because UBI is a massive flop to get a better deal on it :P

@James One thing with that is that it does basically require a major change, both in thinking and in lifestyle. In my specific case in involved getting out of my own way and getting another source of income, to push past that wall. I'm grateful for the help when it was needed, but I am so so glad to be out from under it.

@Hosch250 UBI won't cause massive inflation. The money is already in the system.

Uh, no, it isn't. It'll be in my bank account.

The VAT only supports it as long as people buy stuff.

Not to mention the fact that land lords and sellers still have to exist in a competitive market.

I guess that depends on how likely you think it will be for him to ram something like that through, assuming that he gets nominated, and that he can beat Trump.

@Hosch250 ...uh. People do buy stuff.

@James So, this is what will happen.

1) The VAT is calculated based on current sales.

2) The VAT is applied, resulting in an artificial price hike.

@AndyD273 Take it for what its worth but a poll in NH had him beating trump head to head by 10 points. Better than everyone except Biden.

3) People can't afford to buy at their previous rate, and cut back.

4) Everyone is worse off thanks to having less buying power, and the VAT doesn't make up the UBI cost.

@Hosch250 Why do you assume a price hike? People still want to sell things, and consumers are still going to spend the least amount of money on those things.

@James Sellers won't raise the price--the gov will.

When you buy something, the price isn't the listed price.

It's the listed price + sales tax.

Which, in MN, is something like 10%.

@Hosch250 According to the math, UBI+VAT would increase the spending power of something like 95 percent of americans

So, if I want to buy a new programming book for $50, I have to pay $60 for it (listed price, sales tax, and shipping).

That means even though it looks like I can buy 10 books for $500, I can only buy 8.

@James Theory and practice are very different.

@James how much is it worth? But my point is, even if he gets the presidency, he still has to get it through congress, without them molesting it beyond recognition.

@Hosch250 Sales tax isn't included in price in America?

@Bellerophon No.

When you pick up something on the shelf, you have to go to the checkout before you find the tax price.

@Bellerophon No. It's actually illegal to do that

@AndyD273 Yeah but if he wins...everyone will know why. And the plan has broad appeal for Left and Right voters

@Hosch250 Unless you have a calculator, or can do some mental math

Then, you get a receipt listing the price + tax.

@AndyD273 Even then, it's not exact. Some product groups have special rates.

Food is tax free, for example.

Some things have "rich tax", like yachts.

@Hosch250 That's true. but most common non food things, in most states, has a flat rate that is fairly easy to figure out

Guess that explains why online checkouts have the price listed twice.

Yes. I don't know the exact rate, but estimate it at 10%, which is usually slightly above it.

Geez that is high

(IIRC, it's like 8.8%, or something like that, in MN.)

We're at 6%

I may by wrong here.

With no special zones.

But, 10% always ensures I have enough to cover the cost.

that is fair

some places in California has a state and local sales tax that gets really close to 15%

It looks like it varies by city/county here. Anywhere from about 6.5% to 8.5%.

too complicated

Since I'm in (roughly) St. Paul, that means it's about 7.8% (buying online is just by state, though, so I don't know how that's calculated).

Which is one of the reasons I'm interested in moving to the Dakotas. They only have property tax (which, granted, is higher than other places to cover the difference).

The main problem with that, of course, is they don't have a lot of IT jobs, so I'd end up paying income tax in whichever state I worked in...

@James but here is what I'm kind of afraid will happen... I'm afraid that the democrat party will literally commit seppuku, and I really don't want that. The social democrats movement got AOC and the other squad members elected by attacking lazy democrats. They have announced others that they feel are weak and can be replaced easily by SD candidates.

Cenk Uygur, who was a big part of getting them started, has said that his goal is to shred the democrats from within

And you have Sanders, Warren, and Harris pushing for as close to communism as they can get, Beto talking about confiscating by force every single gun that isn't a revolver, lever action, or muzzle loader... the SD plan appears to be working.

@AndyD273 I don't disagree...even Harry Reid came out and basically said... "wtf are you people doing?!"

OK, I just thought of another question.

What happens to UBI when the gov inevitibly shuts down.

Does everyone keep getting checks?

Even if tax isn't being processed?

I'd assume the same thing that happens to military members...nothing until the gov't is back up and running at which point back pay kicks in.

Probably (also, that super sucks).

How do various help programs (like food stamps) work now?

@Hosch250 Not sure...those may be managed by the state (I think) so they wouldn't be impacted by a federal shut down...at least not at first. If it's federal money there is generally a 1 - 2 month grace period where they have funds to disperse...I am basing this off of reports I vaguely recall hearing during the last shutdown.

Take that last message with a lot of salt...I could be totally wrong.

That would make sense. Because there would be massive fusses if they did shut down.

And I've heard fusses about the military stuff (which, IMO is not fair), but not so much about food stamps.

My BIL is military (Navy E8), and they almost lost their house last shutdown.

@James Also Bill Maher... and that's coming from the guy that said he wished for a recession, which is, in my opinion, evil.

@AndyD273 This is why I like Yang so much. Its not the dividend...I frankly don't need it (not that I wouldn't take it and do things with it) his message is middle ground and is drawing in both Trump and Bernie supporters at the same time.

His twitterverse is absolutely bizarre.

I'm not opposed to Yang, but I'm extremely cautious about money, so I'm just a bit worried about UBI.

...like...people actually talk.

I'm naturally cautious, and I grew up during the recession.

Its not just a random hate spewing cesspool.

@Hosch250 Perfectly fair perspective to have.

If it's him vs Trump, I can potentially see myself voting for him, since I can't vote Trump again after seeing his actions.

I tend to be economically cautious as well. For example I don't finance anything but a house and cars. If I can't afford to pay it in full I don't do it.

If either Yang or Gabbard get the nomination I won't be sad about it. But I honestly don't think they will be allowed.

Otherwise, I'll probably write someone in (maybe Nikki).

@AndyD273 Go register as a dem for the primary so you can vote for them...then you can switch back.

@James Same--except I won't be financing any cars either, unless mine goes right after I buy a house.

@Hosch250 I'm not quite to the point I can pay cash for a new vehicle...which sucks because I had to take my wife's vehicle to the shop this morning.

@James I'm tempted to go to Chicago and be a hold-out for Bernie just to break things (or wherever the place is that has the 100% vote rule to win).

Its possessed by and Angry ghost...

@James Living at home helps. It's not easy, but I'm pretty patient.

(I think I spelled that wrong...)

@Hosch250 Yeah see...I'd rather stab myself in the eye than live with my mother. Granted I am also 37, married, and have 2 kids.

Oh, huh. The adjective is spelled the same as the noun. I guess I'm good.

@James I understand.

I'm saving to buy a house with cash if I can (or the down payment on a ranch I have my eye on; needs a little work, but it is currently operating at a capacity to self-support the loan).

@Hosch250 That'd be pretty sweet/

@James Don't need to: "Michigan has an open primary system, individuals do not need to be registered with a party to vote in their primary elections. However a voter may only vote in a single party primary."

So I already have enough to buy a couple of cars new with cash, but I won't once I make the down payment on whatever I end up buying.

@AndyD273 Nice. I am a registered (I) but in NE I can vote in the D primary.

But not the R primaries...

@James Meh, they really only run one serious candidate an election.

It prevents the party from being split.

@Hosch250 It also pushes it further to the edges..

But also prevents growth/change.

but true nonetheless.

Like, Trump probably won because Bernie split the D party.

A fair number of voters that liked Bernie actually permanently left the party after he was forced out last time.

And ended up supporting and voting for Trump.

Including my neighbor. He was a long-time vocal D, and switched last election.

@Hosch250 Sort of btw. Patient and Patient. But its Patients and Patience. The nouns are the same but the adjectives are different... go English. :eyeroll:

Ok...sort of again...the plural of the person is different than the adjective of the other noun.

Agh...I think I just sprained part of my brain.

Patience is the noun, and Patient is the adjective.

Interestingly you could also be a patient patient.

@James My wife assures me that no, that's not possible.

@AndyD273 lol

@AndyD273 Short-term, probably not really. Long-term, certainly.

Does anyone know what happens with 401k and Roth plans when the "owner" switches companies?

@Hosch250 nerdwallet.com/community/t/…

Thanks.