It's really hard to figure out the normal range of body fat masses. Wikipedia says it goes from about 6% to 30%, but that's percentages not actual masses, and probably the people with 30% body fat are quite a bit heavier than the people with 6%, so how is someone supposed to figure out the actual mass of the fat?

The average male (according to hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/AlexSchlessingerman.html) Is 70 kg and has 10kg fat, about 14%.

By my very rough estimates The range for men is between 2.8 and 42 kg of fat.

Women I think are between 2.6 and 27 kg fat.

Both of those are very rough estimates for the range and I wouldn't advise going for the extremes since they're probably a bit out.

@Bellerophon Thanks, that's great information! The link is broken, but I love having those numbers.

@Geo Does hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/AlexSchlessingerman.shtml work?

@Bellerophon It does! I guess it was the shtml that was messing it up.

@Feeds Reason I joined the chat. I had to type my weird dream soewhere :)

@PavelJanicek Why do you need steps 3-5?

If you have the travel documents to make copies of, why not just use the originals?

The reasoning behind making copies is, that I know that latest Czech passport contains a chip with your biometric data

So, if you were about to travel with latest Czech passport, someone might use the biometric data stored on passport and compare them with your biometric data

@PavelJanicek I haven't flown internationally in a decade... do they fingerprint you at customs?

@AndyD273 Thats the thing I am not quite sure about. I assume they might

@Green Hey, did you fly or drive to Canada? Do they fingerprint when you go through customs?

but, thats for non-US citizen

I do not know what US citizen goes through when "returning home" from overseas

You've got Joe's glasses, and get his hair style, maybe contact lenses for eye color. It seems like the biggest hurdle would be the accent, but that might not matter all that much if you just go to the airport with Joe's return ticket and original documents. A boarding agent probably isn't going to care all that much.

Customs once you reach the USA might be a bigger problem, if their records show that Joe was born and raised in Missouri, but suddenly has a heavy Russian accent, it might set off an alarm bell...

@PavelJanicek That's the part I don't know either

But, there may be another way if that ends up being a problem

Google says, I might be fingerprinted, even pretending to be US citizen

Also, I think my accent is not that hard enough. I think I could pretend some US accent

@PavelJanicek But that might happen even if you have the emergency documents

Or they might fingerprint you to give you the emergency documents

@PavelJanicek Pretty sure you'd be fingerprinted as part of the autopsy.

I'm assuming there is some central database they can check yo against

Yep, the reasoning behind emergency documents is that getting Joe's fingerprints from the system might be harder and TSA Agent may be "too much effort"

I mean, Joe would.

Maybe

But I have a different plan that might work better

shoot

My mom flew to Spain recently. She only had trouble coming back because she triggered the drug system somehow.

Also, with Joe's body I am counting on lazy Czech police officers

Must've picked up that she was an ex-dealer from about 30-40 years ago :P

Use your real documents to fly into Mexico or Canada, and then use the fake documents to cross the border by car

@PavelJanicek Might work with a natural-causes death, but not likely a suicide. TBF, though, that's US protocol; don't know about Czech.

@AndyD273 That's likely to break down pretty quick if they check his history.

Honestly, I do not know the protocol, but Joe's body will have my personal belongings in pockets, including goodbye letter written by my hand

@PavelJanicek Fire may be your friend

Or fly to the caribbean, and arrive by boat.

I was considering the "death by fire"

Thinking that leaving body deep in woods, with all my personal IDs will be better option

because, I am counting on rotting the body before found

You can use a passport card instead of a full blown passport if you cross the border by car or sea port. that means they won't check the stamps

@PavelJanicek dental records? That may be where they laziness comes in

Looks like fingerprints are a pretty standard to determine the identity of the dead person.

@AndyD273 Would someone bother if they have Pavel ID in pocket? With body simillar type as pavel?

@PavelJanicek I don't know. I'm not a cop

And all violent deaths, including suicide, are coroners cases.

which means, that body needs to dissapear without a trace

i.e.: Fire

Or bury it in the woods

They specifically check the body for any signs of a struggle.

And, BTW, fire doesn't completely destroy the body. A strong acid will, though.

Fire will leave enough evidence for the dental work to be checked.

Teeth and bones often don't burn.

if someone from police is sniffing my internet searches right now, I will be swatted in like 5 min :)

There was a case where someone in Australia killed 3 people.

Yeah. And they can probably tell that the dental work is foreign

Thing is, me in real life changed dentists several times

But they finally managed to convict him on the third because he still had the buttons from their clothes in his possession.

Even acid doesn't always fully work. You usually leave some bone and stuff. Possibly enough for identification although I'm not sure.

The bodies were completely gone.

IIRC, he used acid, then pulverized what remained and sprinkled it in the deep country.

Thing is, how much will someone care if they will assume that such dead body is actually Pavel?

because, Pavel will quite publicly say "goodbye" and dissapear

Joe will board the plane, claiming he is Joe

@PavelJanicek That's a pretty known trick for murderers, though.

That's why they check this; because it's not uncommon.

Killing someone is hard

It's supposed to be...

except it looks so easy in the movies

Just my luck, detective Columbo will be assigned to that case

referrence: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbo

Basically, I am hoping for lazy czech cops. Will ask in czech group

Will fingerprints be a problem? Do the czech government have everyones fingerprints on record?

I think that my fingerprints are stored only on passport

Googling

Seems that fingerprint is stored only on that passport inside the chip

Seems that there is no database of fingerprints

So even if they fingerprint the body it won't matter. Dental records will still be a problem.

Already asked in Czech writer group how big a problem we are speaking

Hmm, the question is, as Pavel I have big, visible scar on my right hand. All people who know personally Pavel know about the scar

So, question is if people who know me personally will be asked to see the body

Almost certainly they will be asked.

Damn

Death by fire is so implausible

Death by drowning in the sea?

Hope they don't recover the body.

@Bellerophon Sadly, I have to inform you that Czech Republic does not have a sea

Go somewhere that does. Preferrably a stormy sea.

That means, that Pavel has to commit suicide either in Poland or Germany

Which may raise more questions...

No, he has to go boating and die. Doesn't have to be suicide.

I was thinking that suicide will raise less question

@PavelJanicek largish lake?

Maybe. But suicide leaves the body.

Thing is, I have a dead body to dispose

Maybe Pavel decided to try out his new concrete swim fins?

And identity to assume

Seems easier to try to immigrate through legal channels...

Unless there are some major time restraints

meh, too boring :)

obiously, its quite easy to visit USA for Czech citizen. Especially if we are talking about "short visit"

Overstay your visa, move to California. They'll never be able to get rid of you

:D

I sorta wanted to end up as American citizen

But still, for Czech citizen, there are easier ways than to kill somenone

Put the body on the boat then sink the boat with the body aboard. Just make sure to have a way off the boat back ashore.

@PavelJanicek Marry someone, get green card, then apply for full citizenship.

@AndyD273 In my case, step 1 would be "Divorce my Czech wife, because ... well, while she is lovely and all, she is not US citizen" :D

@PavelJanicek Move to USA, marry US citizen. Get citizenship. Divorce US wife, bring over Czech wife, "Marry" her, then sponsor her for citizenship.

I mean, you can have your imaginary character go through all this for the sake of the story, it's just not efficient.

Oh, but I do have an idea to make it work...

I am one ear

So Pavel and Joe go out drinking. They get along great, etc. And then there is an accident which is pretty much Pavels fault, but not intentional, and Joe dies. So it's not premeditated, but suddenly the opportunity shows up; report the crime, maybe go to jail, or pretend to be Joe, maybe become a US citizen, or at least get put in a US jail...

I don't know what Czech jails are like

@AndyD273 Imagine Russian jail system, but better food

thankfully never been in a Russian jail either. You can count the number of foreign jails I"ve been in on no fingers.

I'm not telling how many foreign jails I've been in, but you can count the domestic ones on no fingers.

ok, gotta go. Thanks for the help.

yup

@AndyD273 Just because you counted with your toes doesn't make you a better person than the rest of us.

@James Thats fair... but I do have very flexible toes

@AndyD273 Plus you can count to 11.

This on hold music sounds like it comes from some 80's sitcom...

I did say "good dragon" out loud when he melted that damn thing.

What did you think of the ending?

I can see Arrrrya being a pirate.

I think Tyrion won--he's still the second most important person in the country :)

@AndyD273 The one thing I really wanted to see was John Snow having to kill Dany and I got that. It didn't happen how I wanted but all in all...for a series that big and long...not bad.

So, why'd you want him particularly to kill her?

@Hosch250 And Bran can't have kids, so once he dies his sister is the only heir to the throne, meaning Tyrion would be king...

I think they did...ok on the last season, but just ok.

@AndyD273 They are elected now, though.

@Hosch250 In my head I had them facing off she on Drogon him on the ground. She tells Drogon to burn John. Queue torrent of withering flames for a sec. John then brushes his shoulder like Luke at the end of Last Jedi and Drogon ends up bowing to him...then he is forced to execute her like Ned killing that random dude in the very first episode.

LOL.

Now you are making me think of Hrun fighting Liessa's brothers.

So I skipped out after watching the first season and never caught up. I've been mostly feeding off the bitter tears of those who loved the series seeing it burned as if by a dragon by people who claim to be writers.

Doing backflips onto the low-flying dragon.

But I thought that the council rejected the idea of democracy outright at the end?

The similes are flying fast and furious this morning, I see.

@AndyD273 Essentially the heads of each house convene and elect the king now, from what I gathered.

@AndyD273 They haven't been great this last season but honestly I think the hate is mostly misplaced despair that the series is over and people for some dumbass reason thought that suddenly GoT would go "traditional fantasy hero" and they'd get what they want for their favorite character.

That's my opinion mostly too.

@Hosch250 Sure, and as queen in the north, Aryia has the best claim to be the ruler over all when the next ruler is needed...

Except, the night king battle sounds horrible.

Have you heard the "Bran is a sith lord" theory?

It's was like a steamroller just coming along, then suddenly Thanos just snapped and it disappeared.

@AndyD273 Sansa actually.

@James err, yeah.

@AndyD273 No but it totally makes sense.

The general theory goes, Bran can see the future. If he hadn't told John about his legacy then John and Daenerys get married, everyone ends up happy, except that Bran isn't king. So he engineers a plot where John has to kill the woman/aunt that he loves, then be arrested and banished, so that Bran can be king. I'm leaving a lot of stuff from the theory out, but that's the main bit

I like the theory that Dany is a parallel to Hitler.

@Hosch250 Or any unchecked lust for power.

It draws several parallels to her rise to power, and proposes that GRRM deliberately did it so people would root for her, and, being human nature, not realize when it was time to back out and stop her.

Basically she's just an illustration for power corrupts

I guess the warning signs were there all along. She really did like burning anyone that got in her way

@AndyD273 Yeah I struggle with understanding the people who don't get that it is in her nature or was a complete 180/surprise.

@Hosch250 Reminds of reading "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich." I had to keep reminding myself that I'm not cheering for the Nazis.

@AndyD273 for US citizens entering Canada to visit, I've never been fingerprinted.

@James yeah, wan'd'ya'want?

@Green So here's the primer. Climate change is bad

Got me thinking...what can individual people do to help combat that.

@James you don't say? /s

Answer: Purchase land near wildlands in conjunction with other people and leave it wild. Purchase enough land that it offsets your personal carbon footprint.

@James call or write you congress critter in support of climate change control legislation.

Problem: How the hell much land would I need to get to account for my personal carbon footprint...

@Green I do that, but I live in Nebraska...it doesn't help.

And I don't have a congress critter anymore.

How would I calculate the carbon footprint from my home and my two cars...and then compare that to what a patch of wildlife can remove from the atmosphere.

@James work out the carbon capture capabilities of an acre of prairie then buy enough prairie to offset double the average Nebraskan carbon footprint.

@Green Let me rephrase... How would you calculate...

I wouldn't calculate my personal footprint since I'm not mascochist that way. I'd use someone else's numbers for average Nebraskan carbon footprint then aim to recover 125% of that value.

@Green Who are you and what have you done with Green. You are absolutely a masochist that way.

Stand by for masochistic method....

:D

Decisions to make: Do you care only about the carbon used to heat/cool your home and fuel your vehicles or do you care about all the carbon used on your behalf (that's hidden away in the supply chain to bring you your food, clothes, and other stuff)?

Anyway, make a list of all the carbon usages you care about (or can even account for).

Look up the individual rates of carbon creation for each of those sources.

For large sources such as food production, look up aggregated numbers then pull out just your share by dividing the total carbon footprint for food production by the number of people in the US, times the number of people in your family.

@Green The obvious one's are the home and two cars...the indirect stuff...I am not even sure where to begin...I mean you've got food chain, there's probably something with garbage, ow, this makes my brain hurt.

Assuming you have a spreadsheet for this, sum up the carbon footprint for each of your sources.

Someone has done research on carbon capture rates of prairie. Divide your carbon footprint by the carbon capture rate. THat's the number of acres of prairie you need to equal your footprint.

Well, #1, reduce the carbon footprint of the cities. I imagine cities have way more carbon output than small towns.

#2, funny you say that, James, but I've been looking to buy land in Custer, SD (about 1-5 acres) and leaving it mostly wild just for myself. And I'm near the parks for fun, too.

@Hosch250 citation needed. There's a lot of abstractions built into that statement; and lots of ways to justify higher carbon footprints in small towns than in cities. It will depend on which data you pick.

@Green That's why I said "imagine".

@Hosch250 :) Fair.

But, TBH, I expect that factories and the like are responsible for most the carbon output, besides transportation.

@James This may help you: eia.gov/environment/emissions/state

Maybe even more than transportation.

@Hosch250 that link to James has a spreadsheet that talks about energy usage by sector. May have the answers you want.

@James does that answer your question in both the simple and masochistic ways?

@Green I mean I was expecting you to do the work...but sort of yeah.

So, transport and electric power generation are pretty close for MN, and they both dwarf everything else.

Transport leads for SD, but is tiny compared to MN--likely because they don't have any cities worth mentioning.

Which leads to fewer people.

@James :P I now live in one of the world's largest carbon exporters...where I can't vote. I got nothin'.

And, that transportation is likely mostly long-haul trucking (citation needed).

@Green You can do math for me though.

@James Ah, but capacity and inclination are two different things. I have the first but not the latter. ;)

So how would you calculate the carbon impact of say buying goods that were made in China versus those made in the US...ouch.

@Green I don't like your new job.

@James BAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!

I prefer bored Green.

@James I'm very sure that someone has done that kind of research already, multiple times and with multiple assumption sets.

I'm not going to Google it for you @James. :)

@Green You're my hero. Maybe I just need to keep a data scientist on retainer...

Man I wish I were obnoxiously wealthy.

@James My brother in law would be happy to fill that role for you (on condition that you can pay him the retainer fees.)

@James I feel you. I'd like to keep a mechanical engineer and an aerospace engineer on retainer too.

@James Welcome to the club. You're the last member of humanity to join.

@Green It'd be really convenient.

@Gryphon That's kinda cool actually.

@Gryphon Have I joined yet?

I think I have at times, but I've retracted my nomination multiple times too...

I just want enough to live on for the rest of my days so I can just work odd jobs as I'm interested and spend the rest of my time dozing before a fire reading, programming, and spending lots of time outside.

@Hosch250 You don't think it'd be nice to be extremely wealthy? Even if you just end up donating most of it to charity?

Not really.

I'd just like enough to live, but little enough that there's some pressure to work. Being lazy isn't good for me.

Basically, where I could work a 20-30 hour week, or even a 40hr week without commute and where I could jump on my bike and ride for an hour every day after work.

Instead of spending 60-90 minutes driving home, then having supper ready, and then being too full to ride (I'm not in charge of meal schedules).

@James Yeah! I'd have the plans for my custom airplane already!

@Gryphon What do you mean by 'extremely wealthy'?

@Green ~10,000,000$ was the rough area I was aiming for.

@Gryphon on interest alone, that's $$200K/year. A very pretty penny. That's plenty of F*** you money.

@Green Cool, what I thought too, but it's been a while since I had a reason to cross the border.

If I had to do it again in the near future I think I'd apply for a nexus card ahead of time

@AndyD273 I have a vague memory of getting fingerprinted when I got my permanent residency (which makes sense that they would do it then).

@Green Sure, background check and all that, make sure you don't have any DUIs

@AndyD273 Given the amount of traveling I'll be doing for work, that sounds like an excellent idea to me too.

@AndyD273 As a part of my application I had to submit my FBI background report. (Empty, in case you were wondering despite all the "fun" conversations I have on WB about how to destroy the world.)

Publicly empty :D

Who knows what mine has...

I have a friend who lives in Canada and crosses into michigan several times a year. Told me what a great feeling it is to drive past the 3+ hour long normal line and get through customs in about 10 minutes in the nexus line

@Hosch250 I did wiggle my eldritch fingers to have it come up empty but you all will never know what it originally said.

@AndyD273 Oh hell yeah!

First time I got a background check they had to call me and confirm that I really didn't have a credit card.

@Hosch250 Hah! That's awesome!

It was so empty I wasn't even in the system, LOL.

I was in college and all, I'd registered for the draft.

But they couldn't find me at the level they were looking at.

@Hosch250 Having zero credit history is a rare feat.

Ahem, selective service. Gotta put the lipstick on the pig.

I have a credit card now.

But, I didn't have a job at that point.

Parents wouldn't let me get a job, since I was paying for half my college with merit-based scholarships, and they didn't want to lose that.

Also, there was the story where they were flying on a private plane to canada and got diverted to some small airport because of weather. They were going to make him wait a couple hours until a customs agent could show up and allow him back into Canada. So he pulled out his nexus card and was like, "does this help at all?" and the airport security got really happy and just waved him through.

@AndyD273 Oh yes! I am definitely getting one of those.

@AndyD273 I live in Ontario, and it's really, really rare for the normal line to be 3 hours. Normally its like 10-15 minutes.

@Gryphon Ah, I live in Ontario too.

@Green Whereabouts?

@Gryphon Toronto.

@Gryphon I dunno. I kinda think it was near a holiday? Anyway, second hand info, but it really did make me want to apply for one of the cards.

@AndyD273 I live like an hour from the border, and some stuff is way cheaper in the states, so I go down semi-regularly. The line is rarely more than 15 minutes. Although I can see a holiday might change that.

What the heck happened to the star wall?

It got stagnant...

Um, the Monkey Lords took over?

Turnaround used to be at most one week.

@Hosch250 :shrug: I got busy.

It's been really really quiet in here the last few weeks

@AndyD273 I wonder how we can sucker, er, entice more people to spend some time here?

@Hosch250 To be fair, that got six stars, which helps keep it up a bit longer.

@Green Cool. What are you thinking for materials?

@James a mix of carbon fiber, fiberglass and aluminum for the airframe. Diesel engine with a variable pitch propellor.

@Green Probably need to add some stickers.

@James At least one for sure.

@Green Might be cheaper to hire Cirrus aircraft.

They're up in Duluth, and help sponsor the Duluth Airshow every year.

They alternate between the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels.

My brother and I went last year, and we are planning on going this year :)

@Hosch250 Yeah, true, but if I'm extremely wealthy, then I can afford to design and build my own (or hire people to do it for me).

@Green I dunno... I'm hoping it's just the time of year and everyones just getting used to the warmer weather. Last week was like a week of fridays, which sounds great, until the next day is also a friday... Which actually would make for a really horrible scenario... where groundhog day took place on a friday, and every time the day repeated you would hear everyone around you getting excited for their weekend plans, all the time knowing that it will never happen to you...

This is my current favorite: raptor-aircraft.com

Freak! Kingledion hasn't been in chat recently enough that I can ping them to build stats on chat usage.

@AndyD273 Yay, I needed new nightmare fuel.

@Green This is called irony.

@Gryphon Why else does one come to WB?

@Green I dunno, I heard that some people actually come to WB to get help with building worlds. How weird is that?

@Gryphon I've turned a bit absurdist in my old age. Creating new worlds or modifying old ones often but does not always result in new nightmare fuel.

(But you're right though. People do come here for help with building worlds, not specifically to have nightmare fuel injected through their eyeballs.)

@Green Are you still reading about plasma-y stuff?

@HDE226868 Not much anymore though I'm always open to new reading on the topic. You have some delicious to share?

@Green No, not really. I was writing an answer about plasma(about spheromak formation), and it occurred to me you might have read about similar stuff.

@HDE226868 my research was in sustained plasmas around >3000K, hopefully at 1 bar. Never built anything but that's where I was looking.

Cool article though. I've never heard of those before.

Wooo! I just got season tickets for Nebraska football.

I always wanted season tickets.

Nice!

:D

@Gryphon Just so long as it's not octirony.

@Hosch250 Is that like irony that is a result of Discworld magic?

Something.

I like the sentient storm in The Wyrd Sisters.

I like Marget (or was it Magret) too.

Magrat Garlick

Oh, nice.

She's weird, but I sympathized with her struggles with the older ones with her love affair with the Fool.

The Fool ended up being a decent guy in the end.

I'm impressed with how Pratchett is able to make Granny Weatherwax this terrifying force of nature but also not terrifying.

Yup, she's one of my favorite characters. Her, Vimes, and Moist.

There's a character named moist?

Seriously?

That is so wrong...

@James Moist von Lipwig, Basically a con artist that Vetrinari saved from being hanged if he would make the post office work again (and later the royal bank)

Oh, and later the railroad

@HDE226868 my EVE main was actually well on his way to that ;) (didn't quite get to Graviton Physics V before I had to retire from the game)