The Factory Floor

You know, it seems to me to be a LOT better problem to be having to have say we don't have enough resources for the whole world in one continent than to say we treat our people so horrible we have to forcibly keep them from leaving.

6:05 PM

@dot_Sp0T No, that was longer than what I put

But, I probably shouldn't get political here :)

@Hosch250 We venture into it occasionally, but people are pretty polite around here so we can actually discuss in a fairly sane manner.

Anyway: Wall around my cool-ass conworld city; how to justify, how to make it work as wall, etc. pp.

Q: How can i make Reverse war rape more demoralizing?

Wow, nine views and three downvotes:

-3

My army of 500 veteran, virgin, and sexually repressed shieldmaidens captured a small enemy fortress. We killed all male soldiers and only 50 important courtiers of the enemy kingdom survived the siege. Most of them are weak, young men and underage kids. My shieldmaidens are very, very strong ...

I am not clicking on that at work...

6:07 PM

@James Not asking you to.

@dot_Sp0T Did you post a question?

I'm considering downvoting it myself.

@Gryphon You might find that a little, ummm, harder than you think?

@Gryphon Just the title looks like the perfect trainwreck, where the train happens to be hauling fresh fertilizer from the cattle yards.

4

From the sounds of it, those guys would think they are in heaven.

6:08 PM

@James no, because the subject is still too huge and I didn't spend enough, in my opinion time on research, etc. to justify asking a question - I would feel like one of the people I generally complain about on here

But if a diamond thinks I should ask half-baked stuff I guess I can

@Green Quit lurking. Its creepy. No stalking.

@James I had a non-creepy question I was mulling.

@dot_Sp0T ...you are one devious little Sp0T

@Green That's what they all say.

@AndyD273 on collision course with a diesel tanker train?

@James Here goes then.

@Green That would burn well.

6:10 PM

@James Ammonia + Diesel fuel makes a wonderfully huge boom.

@Green how's your Q doin?

@Green Just thrown in two tanker trucks on the crossroad. One full of acetylene and the other of oxygen.

Anyway, here goes. Every human alive right now is actually running on a computer that has the entire universe model on that computer. However, each human/computer relies on communication with other computers to work out human interactions.

@James That would do it too.

@dot_Sp0T Which one?

@Green the only one I currently know of; the one with the weird city

Since each individual node is capable of running the universe, what happens when there's a net split and a node goes offline?

6:12 PM

@James This is going to look really pretty. From very far away.

@dot_Sp0T Oh, when I looked this morning it had four upvotes and one answer.

That human/node suddenly has no input from the other human/nodes and so they just disappear. If anyone remembers the IRC nodes of old, if there was a netsplit and you were the last person in the room, you would become room admin.

I guess it's less of a question and more expository of circumstances.

@Green This question is more weird than your normal weird.

In other words, the last person alive gets to know the final meaning of life, the universe, and everything?

@Green So the person just disappears from the perspective of the rest of the people, but from the perspective of the person everyone else disappeared and they are alone on the earth?

That's a bit backwards. Usually the last person alive is the last to know the final meaning of ...

6:15 PM

@James This is saying something. Because Green's normal weird is very weird. And this is weirder than that.

Since a split node can't be remerged with the rest of the network (how do you decide who's version of the universe is right) that person lives out the rest of their lives in total isolation.

@AndyD273 Precisely.

@James thank you, do you think I should make it a question / series of questions? Any ideas on how to split them up?

@James Thanks! I've been really enjoying wandering around that world.

@AndyD273 People just disappear in real life.

@Green They'd go insane.

@Hosch250 I'm not sure they would. Sure, some people would go mad from loneliness or isolation.

6:17 PM

@Hosch250 If they're an extrovert, they'd go insane. If they're an extreme introvert, they'd be really happy.

From what I've been able to find, there's a difference between solitary confinement in a prison and solitary existence in the wilderness.

@Gryphon Even an extreme introvert likes to have some people around sometimes.

@Hosch250 A very extreme introvert?

Yeah.

Solitary Confinement is pretty close to complete sensory deprivation which will make you go crazy. Being by yourself in a huge world with plenty of problems to solve, like what's for dinner and how do I stay warm this winter, is not sensory deprivation; just social deprivation.

6:19 PM

@Gryphon actually there's plenty extreme introverts that need people around them; just not interacting with them :)

If you were building a system where it's common, or possible, to have netsplits, and the individual on the computer is important enough to have their own computer, then the system designers would be pretty bad if they didn't have a way to detect and resolve reconnection collisions.

@AndyD273 Resolving the splits may require more trouble than the designers care about. It's equivalent to a giant git repo that is 1000 commits behind master. Sure, it's possible to merge the two repos but why on earth would you try?

@Green Not really.

@AndyD273 Also, an axiom of network systems is that the network is never perfect and the network is never constant. Connectivity changes and topology changes.

Basically, there would be no conflicts.

Because nobody interacted with each other during that time.

Hmm. Now I'm thinking of an alternative to Git.

6:23 PM

@Green But don't most GIT merges just update the lines that have changed? and depending on the control they have, they could probably isolate the individual from the world. so the world on the orphaned machine gets wiped out and replaced by the common one on the network.

@Hosch250 But, I as the solitary person can burn down an entire city for fun, because I want to. The world state has changed a lot. Now I have a world with a smoldering city and another with a bustling metropolis. Which one is right? I suppose you could vote on it.

Basically, there's a timestamp on each key press.

@Green Hmm, ok, there is a conflict.

@Hosch250 I'm also assuming that there is no equivalent to Linus who has absolute control over what is and what is not. Just as in physics, there are no privileged viewpoints.

Hmm, that doesn't work for code.

Or, and this is even better, the system on the main network detects that the machine has disconnected, and the person is replaced by a NPC who is in a coma. The orphaned machine is frozen until it can be hooked back up, and the person wakes back up out of the coma.

6:25 PM

@Green what if there is a privileged viewpoint in physics?

@dot_Sp0T There isn't in this scenario.

What if someone made physics and can change it at will?

@Hosch250 yes it does. Just necessitate an amount of people agreeing upon something; or alternatively use... eeeeeeek.... blockchain

@Green But, who made the computer nodes?

scrubbing my hands

6:26 PM

@dot_Sp0T No, it doesn't, because there either wouldn't be a way to resolve conflicts (character by character wouldn't work).

Or, if everyone worked on a central system, it wouldn't build.

The sleeping sickness epidemic of the early 1900's was actually a massive network outage, they thought that they had it resolved for a little while, and then it degraded again and they had to shut those computers down.

It works great for mutual editing of an article, or something, though.

@Hosch250 Unanswered. This world mechanic was my fastest solution to a situation where a guy is just walking down the street when everyone around him disappears leaving their clothes and everything else behind.

@Hosch250 one would assume that everyone working on it would be working towards it working and not against it; or at least the majority

@Green Why would their clothes stay behind?

6:27 PM

@dot_Sp0T Still wouldn't work, because as soon as one character in an identifier was changed, it wouldn't work.

Say, someone is busy typing "foobar", but someone else clicks Run when they only have "foo".

@Hosch250 and then someone, or multiple people would find that character and fix it

yuck

Wouldn't the clothes be part of the persons profile on their own computer?

Meanwhile, there are 5-10 people working on the codebase...

So there are anywhere up to 4-9 conflicts all at once.

@AndyD273 Clothes are world objects and world state. The human beings themselves, as the actors, are atomic in regards to the simulation.

Shameless self plug

6:30 PM

I suppose that means their pace-makers, artificial hips and false teeth would stay behind too.

What about their scars, their accents, their long toenails?

Would they stay behind too?

Their toenails, at least, would be world objects and world state.

@Green I have so many problems with the logic of that idea...

@Hosch250 I gotta draw the line somewhere. I chose the line to be at clothing and artificial elements in or on a human.

Their accents would be state, but not object.

@Green Fair enough.

But it's fine. As you say, gotta draw the line or something

6:32 PM

And from the perspective of all those other people, nothing has happened.

@dot_Sp0T I'd need more information on what the actual question would look like.

@Green Other than that that guy disappeared.

Unless you saw it happen, you'd just think that some guy lost his mind, stripped down to his birthday suit and ran away leaving keys, wallet and phone. Oddly, no one can find this completely naked person.

He'd go into the missing persons file, his family would mourn for a while then the world would move on as it inevitably does.

@Green Can I have the goodies?

@Green FF never ceases to provide collections of words I never thought I would see.

6:34 PM

@Hosch250 He's not going to need them... A) Because he's not here and B) in his world, he now has the entire planet to play with.

@Green Including all our keys, wallets, and phones?

@Hosch250 I guess so, yes.

@Hosch250 From the world's perspective, he just disappeared. From his perspective, everyone else disappeared. He can choose from any phone he wants, any car he wants, any house he wants. Anything.

@James You're welcome!

Well, he can choose phones until the power plants fail and the cell tower generators run out of fuel.

So, the person is last person on earth, with no idea what happened, and no way to reconnect... and the people that that they left behind thinks they ran off or something...

@AndyD273 Yep.

6:38 PM

Yeah, the phones are pretty useless...

GTG call Wells Fargo. Seems someone registered an account in my name. This isn't FUNNY...

@Hosch250 Lots of stuff will be useless.

@Hosch250 Definitely not funny. Good luck.

@Hosch250 Hope you get it figured out. Also, see if you can withdraw all their money.

@James really anything much around building that wall; I can see about 3 subsections: 1. When should/would such a wall be built? (when in time, reasons why then, etc.); 2. Why would they build that wall? (I have the reasoning of wanting to transport water atop it, but even that could be solved better most likely); 3. How much material would building such a wall take? (Considering more decisions about form and size as they spawn from the reasons to build such a wall at all)

@dot_Sp0T For point 3, you might want to describe just an idealized or worst case scenario.

Trying to calculate materials required for building across a flood plane is going to be different than building across a steep ravine.

@Hosch250 Good luck! I second Andy's suggestion.

6:44 PM

@dot_Sp0T It just evolved that way over time. It started as a small wall/earth embankment to keep raiders out. Later on the city grew a lot, and became very wealthy. So they needed a bigger wall, and had the manpower to do it. The city got wealthier, bigger wall, more infrastructure. Some smart guy decides that one way to get water out to the edges of the city is to run it on top of the wall, maybe with tributaries being run toward the center from the outside.

So the wall grows, becomes an aquaduct

@AndyD273 yeah that don't really work I guess, it's just to big and regular for the evolving thing^^

let me relinkg the pic

yay

I don't mean that it was wall built on top of other wall exactly, but the existing wall could be used as a foundation for the new wall. I kind of doubt that the fabled walls of Babylon started out that grand. There were a lot of previous versions that had to come while the city was growing.

Are the inner rings walls too?

nah, road space; had it on the same layer so I couldn't blend it out when exporting; most of that stuff is on a rough sketch layer

I remember that some years ago, posting maps in here to discuss, etc. was more common^^

@Gryphon I don't have an account there. Or a debit card.

Ah, I was thinking they could be like tree rings. The center is the site of the original village and the wall they put up. The city outgrew its wall, and eventually the people on the outside of the wall got numerous enough to want their own wall, and the city is a lot richer, so they build it. The cycle repeats, and a new wall is built.

More time passes, and the city is really wealthy, and the people outside the wall want a wall of their own, and the king is like "I will build a wall that will be like no other wall ever built, with aqueducts!

6:52 PM

Not worried about my money; more about a potential lawsuit.

@AndyD273 that would be fun as well indeed; was on the table originally, but originally it was also fantasy

Some issues brought up today were that the wall wouldn't hold sh..ugar against artillery or really any cannons, etc. So it would need be expanded into more of a fort-structure

Then the issues of the parts bordering the mountain being easy to take over

then that the mountain is a great attack-vector as they could just drop stones

then the inputs stopped

I suggested he built a castle on top of the mountain as the primary defense from above.

@Hosch250 This is a good suggestion.

Then the town won't need to defend from the mountain side.

@Hosch250 I mised out on that

7:00 PM

And really, the castle could be the primary defense, and the walls more for trade.

And if attackers come from the town-side of the mountain, they could just use the wall as a first-ditch defense while they retreated to the castle.

Who is they?

The city watch, or something.

Do you mean a castle for the whole city populace?

@dot_Sp0T The part that is deemed important enough to not throw under the bus :P

Hasn't the city watch technically already lost the battle if the attackers have the city?

7:03 PM

No, because the main garrison of soldiers is in the castle.

And as long as they control the castle, they control the territory to a certain extent.

At that point, whoever lasts longer can win and rebuild the city when it's over.

@Hosch250 can you elaborate on this?

How isn't the group holding the infrastructure the winner?

@dot_Sp0T Because the war isn't over as long as the castle can launch a counter attack.

Alright, but the castle can't really attack the city too much of an extent without destroying what they want to protect?

They'd rather destroy it than let Mr. Enemy have it.

That seems very extremist, not? :/

7:11 PM

No.

That's how most wars go, actually.

It does to me.

Except for France in WWII.

The whole point isn't the town anyway--it's the land.

I don't know if as a person, I would continue to support a group that would rather burn down my house/workshop, than surrender to a superior force :/

Either because it's good farm land or it controls a good trade route, or it has a good defensive situation.

Why shouldn't the town have value by itself?

7:12 PM

@dot_Sp0T Odds are the superior force would burn in anyway, just to show you who's boss. And rape your wife and daughters too.

Then sell you and your family as slaves.

@dot_Sp0T It sort of depends on what the superior force will do when they are in charge...

If they are going to burn and raze the city and enslave the women and children...then...yeah I'd keep fighting.

@Hosch250 where do these odds come from? I mean yeah, these are odds if we're talking about a mongolian horde or whatnot; but not normal fighting late medieval or whatnot

Speaking of occupying territory. Does anyone else here watch Voltron on netflix?

I guess we need to define what sort of attackers we have at this point

@dot_Sp0T Actually, medieval Europe is pretty like this.

7:14 PM

@James not sure it's available on swiss netflix

@Hosch250 actually no..?

OH man it is so good.

That's (partially) why the pope sent them off to the crusades...

To get them out of his backyard.

There were other reasons, too.

Especially not if the fighting was about control of a territory / pressing a claim/birthright, etc.

@dot_Sp0T Yeah that will define in large part how it plays out and how the populous feels.

wars with rape and whatnot were mostly religious by nature

plundering

or the vikings naturally

7:15 PM

@dot_Sp0T Nah, that's war.

It happened in every single war ever.

@dot_Sp0T Yeah that doesn't have anything to do with religion. At least not exclusively.

Korea, Vietnam, WWI, WWII, all of them.

@Hosch250 but these are all modern wars, by the US mainly - aren't they?

Religion is just used as an excuse to drive people to extremes in wars.

@dot_Sp0T And you think the medievals were any better?

7:16 PM

Its an effective tool for dehumanizing your opponents.

Arguably, the better disciplined they are, the less likely they'd do it.

@Hosch250 lose the word 'better' and use 'different'

Which is both ironic and unfortunate.

And you don't get more disciplined than US soldiers...

Unless it's NK soldiers :P

@Hosch250 actually.. but that's another matter

But yeah, medieval wars were def different. Those most likley to have mass killings, etc. were probably the mongolian hordes and other war-bands invading areas to plunder riches; religious wars in the areas around spain and far eastern europe between christians and muslim, etc.; viking invasions, although they primarily raided for loot (riches, food, women, etc.) and by killing off all the people they would destroy their sources of income

Bellerophon

7:19 PM

@Hosch250 Depends on the war. US forces can be disciplined or not.

@dot_Sp0T Whenever you get a mob of people who just got through a traumatic experience of killing and a mob of people who were just forced to comply with the other mob's wishes, you'll have rape, etc.

Especially in times when it wasn't uncommon for women prisoners to be sent to the soldiers for their amusement before execution.

The wars that city-walls and castles were primarily built against were wars about territory. Being the lord of a region, or patron of a city would give more taxes. Or you would marry your son to the daughter of the neigbouring king and a generation later their son would have a 'birthright' to that area, whatnot.;; These wars would be about occupation/deplacing the opponent. Killing off the populace would only hurt yourself, who's going to work the land, make the goods, pay the taxes?

@Hosch250 yes, you will always have these things; but not to an extent of burning down the city you wanted to take over / protect

@dot_Sp0T Who's going to launch a counter attack because the group in control took it from the rightful lord?

And scorched-earth campaigns weren't uncommon. The attackers couldn't live off the land then.

@AndyD273 additional idea. If it's a netsplit, it leaves open the possibility that there are other people still connected to to this isolated guy. He just doesn't know that they are still in the same world. He can't do the world equivalent of 'arp -a'

let's say we're talking about around the 1500s -> we talk about a time where the total populace of Europe is estimated around 90 million people. million. That is about the amount of people only living in Germany nowadays, a single country spread over the whole continent

Your issue is not the land, your issue are the people; there's not enough to even start thinking about working all the land, not even thinking about working a seizable portion of it

you can destroy huge areas without an issue, but you cannot afford to kill huge amounts of populace unless you really only aim to hurt the 'other side'

7:26 PM

People are expendable.

they flipping weren't in the Medieval, there were just too little

And yes, in war, you (almost) always mean to hurt the other side enough that they can't strike back.

@Hosch250 only to a point. 50% losses is crippling.

You kill enough to be a reminder, you export others back home. Then you import your own loyal people to your new lands.

But if you want to take over a region, then the other side isn't the populace

7:28 PM

The last thing you want is a relatively powerful people group able to strike back in a few years.

@dot_Sp0T Depends on if you plan to move your own people in after you kill all the people who lived there before

That was a pretty common practice

@AndyD273 who are your own people? People in the medieval mostly didn't give a wet fart about who they paid taxes to, they had to anyways

You killed the royalty and toughest warriors (or made them into court slaves), took the pretty women as concubines, killed a random smattering of others, took the strong as slaves, and left the weak and dying.

@dot_Sp0T Your own people are the ones who think of you as their rightful king.

People are weird that way. They don't transfer loyalties in their heads easily.

The law said that there is a lord to the lands they work and farm, and that said lord was entitled to a certain amount of taxes, etc.; as well as the church being entitled to another tenth, etc.

You watch too much Game of Thrones and co

LOL, I've not watched a single season...

7:31 PM

The lord of the neighbouring area is your lord's brother

or maybe his uncle

same family

@Hosch250 Just watch the "Best of..." videos on YouTube re: GoT. Way way faster.

same king above them

Just think about Scotland vs. England.

England didn't treat the Scots too badly at first. The Scots just wouldn't give up.

@Hosch250 That is a whole other level, now we're on a level where we got religious and societal differences between the two groups

Because they viewed the Stewart's as their rightful lord because they were local.

7:32 PM

@Hosch250 what period is this?

@Green All of them, LOL.

Half the Scots still haven't given up.

And the rest are probably descended from the English who settled up there :P

But Wars on this scale are way above the level of wars that a city builds walls against

@dot_Sp0T There were walls and castles in those wars.

There are ruins from some of them yet.

@Hosch250 yes, and there are field camps, and huge armies

A city doesn't defend against another kingdom

@dot_Sp0T Cities don't attack cities within the same kingdom, as a general rule.

7:34 PM

A city defends against neighbouring cities or lords

@Hosch250 wrong?

Because then the king's soldiers come down and teach them both a lesson.

Depends on the laws in said kingdom

@Hosch250 provided the central king is strong enough to do so.

what does a king care who owns and taxes the city as long as he gets his share?

@dot_Sp0T No, a city defends FOR other cities within the same kingdom, as a general rule.

7:34 PM

Wrong

They act as a network of defense for each other.

List of battles of the Old Swiss Confederacy

Here you have a list of wars and battles that happened in Switzerland, this list is not complete or exclusive as much as I can tell

List of battles fought by the Old Swiss Confederacy, 1315–1799. The Battle of Morgarten of 1315 is famous as the first military success of the Confederacy, but it was an ambush on an army on the march rather than an open field battle. The Battle of Laupen of 1339 is an early battle which can be seen as indicating the trend of the dominance of infantry over heavy cavalry during the Late Middle Ages. The classical period of military successes of Swiss halberd and pike warfare Pike square (in de Gevierthaufen or Gewalthaufen) are the wars of the Eight Cantons (Ten Cantons after 1481) during the 1360s...

at the time of these wars Switzerland was part of the German Empire, with that Karl guy or what's their name at the head of it

These are the wars and battles cities build walls against

and they are the battles that keeps and strongholds are built against by lords and dukes

@dot_Sp0T There's still a heavy trend of German/Austrian warlords attacking.

lords and dukes war each other for land and resources

yes

but we ruled that out as invasions earlier

From across all that distance.

Zurich, Munich...

Marching across to Bern.

Those were hardly local.

7:38 PM

invasions and raids follow other rules.

they are an outside force invading, with the goal of plunder; they will naturally kill because they do not care about the land.

They are the reason a city will pay taxes to a king, so that king defends their borders

Even ones who care about the land will kill.

Because they want to control the land.

yes, but the extent and form of the killing is different

They don't want the current person in control to regain the land.

@dot_Sp0T Agreed. There's more of it than a small raiding force who mostly operates quickly and quietly.

A raid would take on a village or few. Not a city.

depends on the raider don't it?

Walls were built to withstand whole kingdoms coming against it, with the expectation that other local cities would help you because they don't want to be next.

Didn't always work out that way, but that was the expectation.

Walls were built to withstand sieges of up to several years.

Doesn't sound like a raid to me.

7:42 PM

Groups such as the Avars would raid and kill, as their goal was not expansion

Villages.

What are the odds that at some point in feudal history two competing lords conspired to get into a battle because there were too many peasants and/or they were getting a little uppity. So quick little battle and bam, problem solved.

They wouldn't generally take out a walled city--unless they were taking preemptive action against it before it could attack them.

@James LOL, I wouldn't be surprised.

I think that we're starting to talk past each other; would you be fine with us picking it up again tomorrow?

Yeah, I've got to work now.

7:46 PM

Sweet, it's been a nice discourse and especially some of the points raised were interesting for me. It was exhausting though because English is not my native tongue, and in situs like this I really feel the strain of having to translate data in my head and/or google for the English term, etc.

school is terrible

Agreed.

@James you said you think the material question would be possible to standalone without the others? (Context: Wall, different questions) Or did I misremember?

@dot_Sp0T Yes, I think it would.

@dot_Sp0T Not sure it was me but that seems reasonable. If you want to post a draft in here or the sandbox just @ me and I'd be happy to take a look before you post it on main.

And check and see if you have access to the Voltron remake. Its awesome. @AndyD273 Did you ever check it out with your girls?

@James Yup. They love it too. They finished the current season, and were pestering me to find out when the next one starts

7:53 PM

@AndyD273 I just noticed 7 on Saturday. We've already done 8 of 12 new episodes...and they are really really good.

@James I will check out about Voltron today and probably post a draft on the sandbox tomorrow, will try to make a before and after image; and aiming to ask about time and amount of work/material necessary for such a project (based on examples or references to other works)

@James Ah, I hadn't seen that it had been released yet. I'll have to let them know.

Oh, wait, I've lost track of which was the last season they saw

@AndyD273 ...I was almost a really bad father last night. They went to bed with four episodes left and I nearly allowed myself to watch them without my kids.

@AndyD273 They did two half seasons previously the new one is a full 12 or 13 episode season.

Yeah, looks like they released new ones on the 10th

All I will say is that Earth features heavily after the first few episodes and dang...its awesome.

Did I mention it is really good?

@dot_Sp0T Sounds good, just ping me when its ready for review.

7:57 PM

@James I watched the first season or two with my kids, and then they binged everything without me, and now they just play them out of order, and I have no idea where things left off... they're like animals!

oh my, I could have waterlocks (watergates? Ger: Schleuse(n)) on the wall, allowing me to make the area steeper without issues for the aqueduct, just solved one of my problems by making the walls even cooler than they already were

@dot_Sp0T What's wrong with waterfalls? :P

Other than erosion, that is.

@Hosch250 They only go down

@Hosch250 can't have boats moving through the channel with waterfalls :P

and boats, on top of huge walls, in channels

that just makes my nerd heart beat a little faster

Up north we have the Soo Locks, which are pretty cool, let big ships move from one of the great lakes to another up hill

Soo Locks

The Soo Locks (sometimes spelled Sault Locks, but pronounced "sue") are a set of parallel locks which enable ships to travel between Lake Superior and the lower Great Lakes. They are located on the St. Marys River between Lake Superior and Lake Huron, between the Upper Peninsula of the US state of Michigan and the Canadian province of Ontario. They bypass the rapids of the river, where the water falls 21 feet (6.4 m). The locks pass an average of 10,000 ships per year, despite being closed during the winter from January through March, when ice shuts down shipping on the Great Lakes. The winter...

8:05 PM

@AndyD273 Freaking barbarians.

@James I need to start over around season 2 and get caught back up. I think I've seen most of the episodes, but I'm not completely sure.

@AndyD273 check out this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elster-Saale_Canal there's a whole water lock somewhere in the middle completely dry because building stopped when the americans attacked Germany

@dot_Sp0T Seems useful. Wonder why they waited 70 years to decide to try to revive the project, especially when a lot of the work and planning has been done

@AndyD273 2 - 4 are pretty solid. 5/6 were decent, but felt rushed and...somewhat disjointed at times. 7 with one really really weird exception has been the best so far.

The revival seems, so far, to be more along the lines of a society/club and not as an infrastructure project for the country

Also it has not been restarted/continued because Germany lost the war, was broken up into two countries, and then stayed that way until about 30-ish years ago. so 40+ years of no government that would want to bring a united Germany forward / whatnot

8:13 PM

@dot_Sp0T Who doesn't like to get together and discuss marginally valuable infrastructure projects that were put on hold 70 years ago!? I mean c'mon, there's no party better than that.

in the meantime Lorries and other means to transport freight, etc. have been devised that are more efficient than building a huge channel for barges

@James I would love to form a society with the goal of rebuilding a castle ruin somewhere in Switzerland tbh

@dot_Sp0T Me too, but that's just our inner nerds coming out.

I wish it would stay put so I get to date more often

@dot_Sp0T If the people you date can't appreciate the inner nerd, you aren't dating the right people. And maybe brush up on social skills.

I've never dated you so I don't know if that last part is needed or not

yuck now I need to ask a question about the area being reasonably swampy or not with the new heights and slopes

@AndyD273 I'm really not having that many dates anyway tbh

@AndyD273 is that an offer?

8:22 PM

@dot_Sp0T Just an observation. My wife would have issue with me taking off to europe to take some guy out.

ah man, I thought I wasn't just some guy to you by now :(

well I gotta watch Voltron if possible now.. o7

@James 7 seasons, cartoon/anime?

Also I found the film with Gretchen trying to make 'Fetch' happen

@dot_Sp0T Well, you are some guy to my wife.

@AndyD273 that is a legendary save :D

@dot_Sp0T Swamps aren't usually found in mountains.

@AndyD273 I should think so :)

@Hosch250 There was a huge swamp near where I live and where I live there's mountains right and left. It was an extension of the upper part of the lake near here originally, and then they did infrastructure stuff to dry it up - it's all pretty flat, but I've no idea how flat

(basically the area between one lake, and another lower lake)

(I wish google maps had a height map next to the distance measuring tool

8:31 PM

Yeah, that's where you'd find them.

I got a similar situation on the map, with the mountain lake/river and the lake down, so i thought might be similar - really have little knowledge on what makes water stay other than flats, but there must be other reasons

@dot_Sp0T Dips.

And springs, where water comes out faster than it can flow away.

And, assuming you don't have exception to solid water, it doesn't take much for it to not flow.

@dot_Sp0T Swiss topographical map: map.schweizmobil.ch/…

You can zoom in all the way down to 1:25,000 (i.e., you can see every building and small hiking path marked) and can print sections of the map at any scale you choose. All of Switzerland is included, plus the closer parts of the surrounding countries. You can also add overlays of the national cycling, hiking, and other routes.

@AndyD273 google for GIS Schweiz for an even cooler one

But i was complainig about gmaps because it's got nice aerial pics as opposed to classic maps

I complain on high levels..

Sry