The Factory Floor

@FreezePhoenix Why is that? Content posted across different network sites have different measures of quality, if you're good at coding and got a bunch of rep from SO, it should have no effect on the measure of your WB content.

FreezePhoenix

@Aify But according to your formula, you are calculating the quality of the posts

ninja'd

Aify

7:07 PM

@FreezePhoenix On a specific network, yes

FreezePhoenix

@Aify currentRep / posts is universal

Hosch250

@FreezePhoenix And inaccurate.

Aify

@Hosch250 Exactly

Because different sites use different measures of quality.

HDE 226868

Voting patterns differ across sites. It doesn't matter if your posts are of equally good quality network-wide; on some sites, you'll get more votes than others because some sites are high-voting sites.

Aify

Which makes it all the more important to NOT run that formula across ALL sites

HDE 226868

7:09 PM

Yep.

Aify

since it will skew the ratios and data

FreezePhoenix

But then you have to count the fact that the following occurs:

Aify

Plus, the formula is only useful when you have more reference points

Hosch250

There's actually a pretty accurate way that I've found of predicting a user's rep. If I can write it out.

FreezePhoenix

It still gives you an accurate measure of how many posts you need though for the site @Aify

Aify

7:10 PM

@FreezePhoenix Yup, that's what I said it does

More importantly, if you have multiple data points, you can actually do some nice analysis

For example, @HDE226868 your ratio for rep per post is 57,280 / 595, which is about 100

FreezePhoenix

Then why did you say you can't do it on all sites!

Aify

Very high quality claps

FreezePhoenix

@Aify Old questions

Aify

@FreezePhoenix You misunderstood what I meant by "can't do it on all sites"

I believe you thought I meant the formula doesn't WORK on every site

I meant that the formula cannot be applied when inputting all site data at the same time.

FreezePhoenix

Oh...

I was doing just CodeReview.SE

Aify

7:12 PM

I'm fairly certain if you look at most high rep users, you'll find ratios close to 100

@FoxElemental

So perhaps try to aim for making quality posts that increase your ratio

It may help you to ask better questions, and get you towards your goal faster

FoxElemental

@Aify still learning. Still trying

Aify

Practice! In the sandbox.

3

Also, I find that really really really doing a crap ton of research before asking any question helps

FoxElemental

Yep

FreezePhoenix

@Aify for WB maybe

FoxElemental

@Aify Oh, I do. People weep when they see the number of posts in there.

FreezePhoenix

7:14 PM

Also, get the best for your rep: wisely place bounties at the right times

Aify

You'll increase the amount of knowledge you have, at the same time as producing higher quality content, and at the same time cut down on the number of questions you'll ACTUALLY ask (since if you're researching properly you'll answer a lot of your own questions). Food for thought; If you're asking less questions, you're getting a higher ratio.

FreezePhoenix

How do I have 24 close votes per day on CR

FoxElemental

Oopsy. Gotta run. TTYL.

HDE 226868

@Aify Oh, really? Ooooh. Gotta get it up to 100.

Aify

@HDE226868 You're really close though. IIRC you do bounties quite often too, which means the number is a bit lower than it should be.

What's really surprising is the top 2 users (will and cort) have RPP of less than 70

But they do answer a lot more questions than we do

Samuel on the other hand, is consistent with my observation and prediction of the RPP patterns. He's got above 100 RPP at 43k rep

Huh, thucy also has less than 70

Separatrix has +100

Hosch250

7:20 PM

Basically, average question score in tag and average answer score in tag and average accepted answer in tag weighted by the average question post rate and average answer post rate total for their site activity.

Aify

I'll say the pattern holds.

HDE 226868

@Aify Yeah, I think I've given up the most in bounties of anyone on the site. And earned more, too, I think.

Aify

@HDE226868 that might balance out then, I'm not sure.

FreezePhoenix

question => start a bounty => 50 => Draw attention => ????

HDE 226868

@Aify A net loss of -125, I believe.

Aify

7:21 PM

@Hosch250 that sounds like way too much work for manual analysis LOL

@HDE226868 oh, that only afffects your RPP by 1 or 2

Hosch250

There's always SEDE.

Aify

less I htink.

@Hosch250 It's been a while since I wrote queries

The last time I wrote a query on SEDE was for the votes thing

dot_Sp0T

so what's my ratio? would you care to indulge the old vanity?

FreezePhoenix

@dot_Sp0T plug in the numbers and chug

dot_Sp0T

@FreezePhoenix can't for another 30min or so :/

Aify

7:23 PM

70.625 @dot_Sp0T

I wonder how the users would plot onto a graph using these ratios

Secespitus

10

Q: How should we handle cases where people VTC and answer or answer with a VTC reason at the beginning?

I asked What should our policy be about answering questions that we perceive as close-worthy?, which is a duplicate of Answering a Question you Closed. The policy we want is basically Rule 8 from Rules of Peer Moderation: Don't answer a question that you voted to close. This behaviour is c...

dot_Sp0T

@Aify you should have a field day with @kingledion

Mithrandir24601

@Aify I'd be quite happy :P

Aify

We might be able to measure the correlation between RPP and their rep levels

@Mithrandir24601 if you could that'd be awesome

@dot_Sp0T I considered that possibility for a moment and decided I didn't have time to actually do it lol

@Mithrandir24601 don't forget to ignore accounts with 0 posts.

I think an interesting pattern that goes with this formula is that any new user that came from a different site (and thus starts with 101 rep) would essentially get a lower RPP if they posted low quality content only; theoretically, they would be able to maintain that high RPP if they posted mostly high quality content.

Mithrandir24601

@Aify It's actually really boring due to a few users with only 1 post getting a ton of rep from that post messing with the scaling... I'll try a log scale or something

Aify

7:36 PM

@Mithrandir24601 Or you can just ignore every user with less than 5 posts

Where COUNT(posts) > 5 or something

HDE 226868

@Aify I'll predict there's some sort of peaked distribution, like $r(n)=Cn^a\exp(-bn)$. Kinda like this:

Aify

@HDE226868 I.. can't read that formula.

Hmm.

I don't think it'll be peaked

Well, at least not peaked to that degree

As in, the second half of it shouldn't be that low

HDE 226868

I think maybe a peak further out might be better. Maybe around 60k?

This was just me playing around in Python for five minutes. C = 10, a = 4, b = 1/10000.

Aify

I actually think it peaks earlier

HDE 226868

Could be. I also suppose the initial slope should be non-zero - maybe increasing quickly and then increasing less quickly.

Aify

7:41 PM

I agree.

FoxElemental

I'm back

Mithrandir24601

Aify

@Mithrandir24601 did u take away users with less than 5 posts?

Mithrandir24601

@Aify Not yet, no

Aify

I think doing that first is important

Mithrandir24601

7:47 PM

Aify

Also, can we increase the scale of the graph such that we can see more granularity

Mithrandir24601

@Aify Easy to do and makes for a better comparison with both

FoxElemental

Busy in the Sandbox, increasing question quality->rep/question->overall rep

:)

Aify

I dont understand that where that initial area is

Mithrandir24601

@Aify So, ignore the outliers with >500 posts/>25k rep?

Aify

7:48 PM

Hm.

No, we want to see > 500 posts and >25k rep

Lets increase the anmount of posts you need to make

Lets say, ignore users with less than 10 posts

Mithrandir24601

@Aify On it

Aify

Because we mainly want to target users who are our regular users

It's unlikely that users that have less than 10 posts are regulars anyways

Mithrandir24601

Oh, I've just realised, it's already only taking people with >1k rep

Aify

That's no good

we need to see the people with less than 1k rep

FoxElemental

ooh my teeth hurt

Aify

7:50 PM

That expains why all avg RPP is so high in the graph

FoxElemental

Ivisalign: 1. Me: 0

Aify

My folks wanted me to get braces when I was younger

Argument to get a second opinion: 1. Folks wishes: 0

FoxElemental

Oh, Invisalign's nice. Clear. Faster. Invisible. And no more painful

But day 1 is not doing so well

HDE 226868

@Mithrandir24601 Those are really interesting.

Gryphon

Ouch, my average is about 51, even after I factor in bounties.

FoxElemental

7:56 PM

Mine is, apparantly, in the 30 range. Don't feel bad

FreezePhoenix

mine is about in the 8 range. Don't feel bad.

Mithrandir24601

@Aify @HDE226868 The only difference that including everyone has is that there's a tail with low rep per post+low rep

Gryphon

I guess posts like this don't exactly help, though. That one's pretty embarrassing, actually.

FreezePhoenix

@Gryphon hits the upvote button

There you go

Gryphon

@FreezePhoenix To be honest, I wouldn't upvote it. That was a crappy post from a long time ago.

FreezePhoenix

8:01 PM

Well, you got 2 upvotes from me somehow

Gryphon

No, it already had one for some reason.

But, uh, thanks for the rep, I guess.

FoxElemental

That would have been me, actually

Gryphon

That question is now, somehow, a rep gain.

FreezePhoenix

@FoxElemental but I upvoted also!

Gryphon

Note to self, complain about my crappy questions in chat more often. You get a lot of upvotes.

FoxElemental

8:02 PM

I know

Thats where the totaled score of -1 is, instead of -3. From pity

Gryphon

Pity points are still points.

Mithrandir24601

Filtering out users with <10 posts helps spot a peak (graph coming shortly)

Gryphon

I'll take the 10 rep.

FoxElemental

Though, I know that you shouldn't do so

Gryphon

@FoxElemental True. You have my permission to unupvote if you want. Although, of course, you didn't actually need it.

dot_Sp0T

8:05 PM

are we handing out free votes?

Aify

@Mithrandir24601 Low RPP and low rep are supposed to be there

That's an expected pattern

Think about it.. lol

Secespitus

13

A: What should be our commenting etiquette when pointing out that other Stacks exist?

If it's off-topic here it should be closed. If it's off-topic here and on-topic on the other site and of acceptable quality (we don't want to be the dumping ground for others - let's not make others our dumping ground) it should be closed and flagged for moderator attention. Ideally you would h...

Aify

If we're handing out free votes, I'd love some on my old answers that have low upvotes XD

Mithrandir24601

@Aify Yeah, I've put that back in

Aify

Altho more recently I'm going through them and deleting the ones that are bad/dont actually answer the question

Gryphon

8:06 PM

@Aify Its been unupvoted now, so don't worry. You're not missing out on anything.

HDE 226868

@Aify I've been trying to go back and edit my crappy answers into decent ones. I've considered deletion for a couple. It's satsifying to make 'em better, where possible.

Gryphon

@HDE226868 Wait, you have crappy answers!

dot_Sp0T

@Secespitus thank you very much; though you might want to push it to the top of the post and put the good posts, bad posts wording into ##'s (basically preceding your explanation with simple visuals that people can refer to in their heads while reading, instead of following up when people already have their own picture in their heads)

HDE 226868

Or delete them. But mostly edit.

Gryphon

@HDE226868 I didn't know such a thing existed!

HDE 226868

8:08 PM

@Gryphon Quite a few. Some of which got a decent number of upvotes. In a few cases, just because they looked good. In others, HNQ got me more than I should have.

dot_Sp0T

Have you heard about the marvelous booze-rat?

Gryphon

@dot_Sp0T I actually rather like that question. It's...interesting.

Mithrandir24601

FreezePhoenix

Legit dots

Gryphon

@Mithrandir24601 Darn it, I can't see imgur pictures.

dot_Sp0T

8:10 PM

@Mithrandir24601 might want to add some more numbers (divisions? what's the english word there?) to the Y-axis

@Gryphon stop slagging off at work then

Gryphon

@dot_Sp0T Actually, I'm at home, where my wifi still blocks imgur.

dot_Sp0T

@Gryphon I don't have any words for that

Gryphon

@dot_Sp0T Yes, its sad isn't it. Ironically, school is the only place I can see imgur pictures.

A complete reversal of the ordinary arangement.

Aify

@Mithrandir24601 We need more granularity in the graph

dot_Sp0T

@Gryphon parents?

Aify

8:13 PM

But @HDE226868 I think the peak graph fits well into this, and it's like we predicted

Peaks early, and flattens out but doesn't go as low as your graph.

HDE 226868

@Aify Yeah. You were right about the early peak - maybe at around 5k? And asymptotically approaching ~90 to ~100.

Gryphon

@dot_Sp0T Indeed

Aify

Yup. 90-110 is around the "sweet spot" for highest RPP

Gryphon

Can somebody put the graph somewhere other than imgur, and then stick it in the chat from there. I'd really like to see it.

Mithrandir24601

Gryphon

8:15 PM

@Mithrandir24601 I'm still not getting it :(

Aify

@Mithrandir24601 this ione is better

Gryphon

Oh, that's still imgur.

Aify

@Gryphon what image hosting can you see?

Gryphon

@Aify this works. To be honest, pretty much anything but imgur works.

Aify

@Mithrandir24601 Wait why is the 10 in the middle

Can we get a linear scale on the Y axis?

@Gryphon uploading

Secespitus

8:18 PM

@dot_Sp0T I think the discussion part is important to have before the examples, especially because the examples are very simplified and while I tried to make them somehwat diverse this could lead the kind of people you are thinking of to believe that it's safe to link to certain sites and unsafe to link to other sites.

Aify

@HDE226868 also the early peak seems to be around 1k rep mark based on the graph's X axis scaling

FoxElemental

@Secespitus sorry about the misunderstanding, but, the look of what?

HDE 226868

@Aify Oh, right. I misread that.

Aify

@Gryphon I dont seem to be able to upload to that site O.o

Gryphon

@Aify This is strange.

Mithrandir24601

8:19 PM

Aify

@Gryphon ibb.co/d7x9h8

Secespitus

@FoxElemental what would they look like?

dot_Sp0T

@Secespitus good poimt

Aify

@Mithrandir24601 fantastic

Gryphon

@Aify Thank-you

Aify

8:20 PM

Time to MS Paint a line

Secespitus

@Mithrandir24601 Those charts are cool

FoxElemental

@Secespitus ah, understood. Restated as "what would their structure be."

Is there anything else?

dot_Sp0T

@Aify why not calc it?

Aify

@dot_Sp0T @Mithrandir24601 You heard the man!

Gryphon

@dot_Sp0T Because MS Paint is a long-standing tradition.

Secespitus

8:21 PM

@FoxElemental I don't think so.

FoxElemental

Thank you

Secespitus

@Gryphon Free-hand circles for the win!

Gryphon

@Secespitus Indeed

FoxElemental

Lol. Yes. Looking more like an oval with an identity crisis

Gryphon

@FoxElemental Or multiple identities, all of whom have crises.

FoxElemental

8:22 PM

Yes . . .

Aify

ibb.co/buih28

THis is what I think i see

I'm hoping the actual line will look similar to what I drew

FoxElemental

Oh! I see a lone little dot (Cort Ammon) all the way at the right

Gryphon

@Aify It's weird that there's that little hump before it settles back down to a roughly-normal line.

Aify

No, it's not

@Gryphon that can be explained

Gryphon

@Aify What's the explanation?

Aify

8:24 PM

The people who have LOTS and LOTS of posts often don't post SUPER high quality content

They post Medium content

FoxElemental

Ow. Teeth are now sore. Invisalign: 2. Me: 0

Hosch250

I think the hump might be a little high.

Aify

So if we categorize content into 3 categories, low medium, high

Hosch250

@FoxElemental LOL, ouch.

FoxElemental

Yes

Aify

8:24 PM

High content is postd mostly when there are high quality questions

Hosch250

I may need to get something to correct some serious congenital issues with my teeth.

Aify

of which there are few

FoxElemental

For the next 63 weeks I'll be keeping score. Expected results: Me: 1 (bc of straight teeth). Invisalign: 50 million

Hosch250

Alternatively, I could just die with my teeth like this and be a stumping point for archeologists 1000 years from now.

Aify

Since medium questions are most common, medium answers are posted most often. So wehave some users who post a bunch of medium answers to lots of questions (thus bringing the line back down)

whereas we also have users who try to post ONLY good content

Thus the hump in front

Mithrandir24601

8:26 PM

@dot_Sp0T What sort of line do you want?

Aify

They have less overall posts (but higher RPP) and thus less total rep

Gryphon

@Aify Makes sense. Although you'd expect there to be some low-quality, high-quantity posters in that 1000 rep range to balance it somewhat.

Aify

Low quality + high quantity = ban

And we do see it

Mithrandir24601

Oh, by the way, @Aify it turns out that I'm 1 RPP lower than you are

Aify

A bunch of the dots under the curve

@Mithrandir24601 Not bad :)

Gryphon

8:27 PM

@Aify Makes sense.

Hosch250

I think it looks closer to a normal logarithmic curve than what you drew, but I do see a slight hump.

How does the graph see it?

FoxElemental

TTYL in about 1 1/2 hrs. Got to go

Hosch250

TTYL.

Aify

I'd also like to see the actual line. @Mithrandir24601 XD

Maybe have the average RPP for every 100 rep plotted onto the graph

That would give a fairly nice line i think

Gryphon

@Aify That'd be useful.

Aify

8:31 PM

Also @Mithrandir24601 I'd expect a high RPP from a PHD student :) intellectuals unite!

Mithrandir24601

8:45 PM

@Aify This is proving to be harder than I expected without specialist graph drawing software :/

Aify

:( oh no

Hosch250

9:14 PM

data.stackexchange.com/codereview/query/edit/867880#graph

That's for CR.

I don't think it's exactly what you are doing, though.

Just rep/post per total rep.

Mithrandir24601

@Aify Well... It's not on the same graph but it's interesting all right...

(Also, @HDE226868 @dot_Sp0T @Secespitus - I spent half an hour on that, so feel no guilt whatsoever about pinging multiple people :P )

FoxElemental

9:48 PM

My teeth hurt a lot. I tried ice cream, but they're extra sensitive. Invisalign: 3. Me: 0

Aify

@Mithrandir24601 what does rep/k stand for

HDE 226868

Looking at our list of users, rep/k kind of looks like each person's rep points, but in hundreds, not thousands.

Mithrandir24601

@Aify rep in 1000s

@HDE226868 ... Silly me, it is in 100s facepalm

Try again:

FoxElemental

10:10 PM

See you

Mithrandir24601

@FoxElemental Night!

FoxElemental

Oh, and I'm back.

Sorry about the confusion

Score: Invisalign: 4. Me: 0. Day: 1.

Shalvenay

10:38 PM

hey there @Gryphon @Mithrandir24601 @FoxElemental @dot_Sp0T

FoxElemental

hi

Gryphon

@Shalvenay Hi, Shalvenay

Shalvenay

how're things going?

FoxElemental

Good.

Except for . . . see above

Could someone else here please help with this draft? Feel like it's nearly ready but missing something . . .

Hosch250

10:52 PM

@FoxElemental I have a partial answer for it.

FoxElemental

Okay, but any feedback as to what I can do to improve the question, @Hosch250?

Hosch250

Not really.

Although, personally, I'd say put the poison glands in the upper throat and have it trickle down the tusks.

Then, when it gores something, the poison goes in too.

FoxElemental

No . . . trunk is nice. But your answer can cover that as an optional extra. Is there any more info I should add?

Shalvenay

hey there @Hosch250

Hosch250

Hey.

I think it's good.

FoxElemental

10:55 PM

Be back tomorrow (but please do drop feedback)

Hosch250

OK.

Aify

@FoxElemental for your venom gland question

Have you researched where other animals store their venom?

And if so, why does it not work for your case?

Furthermore, why do you need the venom to reach the trunk of the elephant?

If it's because they use it to soak up water, given that the elephants are immune to the poison, why is it not okay to have the elephants produce enough highly concentrated venom such that it gets dissolved by water to a point that's still dangerous to other organisms, allowing the elephant can "pull" up through the trunk and then spray out?

Additionally, why does the placement of the venom glands matter? Why can't you place them wherever you want them to be? (eg: right at the tip of the trunk if you're going to use trunk muscles to squirt venom, or in the base of the trunk if you want to be able to build it up before squirting it, or all around inside the trunk if you want to use the dissolving in water method, or etc etc)

I thought of all that in less than 5 minutes

Shalvenay

hey as well @Aify

Aify

Therefore, your question needs more restrictions

Also, DO MORE RESEARCH!

Hi @Shalvenay

Shalvenay

how're things going?

Aify

11:05 PM

@FoxElemental For questions like these, doing as much research as possible will basically give you the answer. I'd say that in general, those kinds of questions are bad questions for WB format - because so much depends on what you want it to be or how you want it to work as an author. I can think of several more possibilities using the tusks of the elephants, for example. There are too many possibilities, and you shouldn't be asking us to generate them for you.

@Shalvenay not bad not bad

Mithrandir24601

@Shalvenay Hi! I'm just about to head of to bed - spent the past ~hour packing... Night!

Shalvenay

@Aify -- mind if I toss you a worldbuilding question here on chat?

Aify

Go for it

Shalvenay

if someone with natural weapons (such as a breath weapon) was dropped into a modern-day world, how would they handle zones (like a courthouse) where the carriage of weapons is forbidden, even in places that are relatively tolerant to weapon carriage?

Aify

Can you define a breath weapon

Shalvenay

11:11 PM

@Aify like a dragonkin with fire breath

Aify

How do courthouses handle people with extensive martial arts experience?

Idk the question needs more restrictions and details

When you say modern day world, is it modern day our world with no dragonkin

and the dragonkin is some magical drop in

or are dragonkin commonplace in the world?

Shalvenay

@Aify yeah, magical-drop-in is what I was assuming

Aify

Then the dragonkin would probably have been killed if dropped in the US

Almost immediately;.

Therefore, removing th eneed to deal with zones like a courthouse

Shalvenay

heheheh :P

Aify

Question rendered moot

I think I see a pattern in questions that I don't like - questions which are asked for the sake of asking questions

Random scenarios that pop into people's heads and have nothing to do with any actual worldbuilding aside from the flavor they throw in, or the excuse they make up

Any REAL questions tend to come with extensive research done beforehand

Shalvenay

11:17 PM

yeah, my problem tends to be 'where do you start?" for some of the questions I've been known to ask

is the problem more "research to set the parameters of the question" btw, or more "research to try to find an answer?"

Aify

For a question like yours?

Yours is a different beast

You need more details to set the parameters

For Fox's, it's both

Typically doing the latter comes with the former

Shalvenay