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00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

5:00 PM
Better better than faster
Sure, I sound like a douche, but at least I'm an efficient douche.
@Aify You don't have to do all the reviewing. Even if you get fewer tasks done, others can pick up the slack. If it leads to more new users coming back to worldbuilding, I'd say its all for the better.
@Aify We should form a union of efficient douches. Maybe we'll have bargaining power against SE then.
Oh, please don't
@Hosch250 That... Huh.
That's not a horrible idea
5:01 PM
I mean, it's not like we're ACTUALLY douches
We would just come off as "that group that seems mean but is never wrong"
hmmm, if i become a mod then i have even more excuses for not constantly patrolling the review queue
I disagree @FoxElemental In the time it takes me to explain to one person why their post is bad and how to fix it (which I usually don't think is fixable without drastically changing the question) I could have set into motion 5 close votes on other questions. In this case, better =/= faster. We're on the internet, people should grow thicker skin...
@dot_Sp0T Yeah, seems since you'd have the final say, just paying attention to the flags and leave the normal reviews to the users.
Or rather, people should know by now that when you're on the internet, tone of voice doesn't come across well
Hmm.. If I became a mod, I don't think it would affect my voting patterns
5:04 PM
@Aify I disagree. It's better for the question if you take the time. There's a larger ability to save it if everyone contributes. If you don't, then not only do you come across as harsh, but it actually leads to a decrease in overall site quality.
@AndyD273 could you respect me as a mod?
@Aify It kinda has to. You can't cast the first close vote if you're a mod since it's binding
Since me becoming a mod would be dependent on people agreeing with my points of view in terms of off/on-topicness
@AndyD273 That's where I disagree slgihtly
@dot_Sp0T I haven't seen you in a position of power yet.
Like i said, since it would be dependent on people already agreeing with my views on off/ontopic
5:05 PM
@Aify mod powers should mean you restrain yourself more
@Aify that's how the system works
Therefore, My votes would just save time
at least that's hwo I see it
Oh look
another reason why I shouldn't run
@Aify I can respect that. It's ok to have a wrong opinion on the internet.
@AndyD273 it's exactly because I know the site doesn't work that way and that the mods are expected to change their voting patterns that I will not run for mod
Ah. Got it
5:06 PM
@Aify I'm not trying to change your mind
To me, it's irrational to not VTC those questions simply because "i'm a mod"
@AndyD273 :/
@AndyD273 I know :)
@AndyD273 You can actually. Just because a lot of mods choose not to for one reason or another doesn't mean there's anything against it and (unless a mod isn't VTC-ing first for reasons of encouraging the community to do it or something) this kind of behaviour is the expected behaviour, just not what most mods choose to do
But . . . you still might consider, just, you know, leaving an explanatory/how-to-fix comment on, like, one post per day, for a new user or for a more salvagable question. Just to start
Might make people appreciate your use of those privileges more
5:08 PM
@FoxElemental Disagree - Better for the single question =/= better for the site as a whole. I think the only true way to make the site better as a whole is to almost "train" new users to ask higher quality questions, and to weed out the ones that are lazy and will drag down site quality early and quickly
@dot_Sp0T To be clear, I don't have any reason not to respect you either.
From that standpoint, I think a harsh view and to the point comments are very effective
@AndyD273 b...but i thought you knew me
@FoxElemental and I do occasionally leave comments, but only when I have surplus time, which isn't often.
@FoxElemental This is to be expected of higher rep people - when you don't have the power to VTC, you can just flag and leave it for someone with a higher rep to deal with :P while when you are that person of higher rep, it's kind of up to you to do that
5:09 PM
Still encouraged for us lower-reps, but not so necessary :P
@dot_Sp0T As much as chat allows, yes. And more than likely you'd do fine.
@AndyD273 damn
Which leads to an interesting pole question: What is the scariest super power?
You mean SE wise
5:11 PM
In fiction, of course
@AndyD273 I was about to ask in what context
So I can't say, ie, delete votes
Well, so many choices
@AndyD273 The scariest super power is, of course, the ability to invoke fear in anyone/thing that you want to invoke it in.
I mean, that is LITERALLY the "scariest" super power.
Ooh! FTL! Because
5:12 PM
@Aify That doesn't come with the diamond though, you can take that from me
1) theory of relativity smashed
2) Make BIG BOOM by making stuff move that fast
@Mithrandir24601 I'm afraid I don't understand the comment :/
@AndyD273 You see, when people ask questions like that, it's almost as if you want a demonstration ;)
3) See this what if
Wait, no
With great power comes great responsibility, so if you had a great power and didn't use it responsibly/for good then what would be the worst super power.
5:13 PM
@Aify A mod has no ability to invoke fear in most people
Ai know hwat hwould be hthe hgreatest hsuperhpower hever.
And the scariest
@Mithrandir24601 Yes, but he's asking what would be the scariest super power in all fiction, not for a mod
The ability to make anything from Worldbuilding Stack Exchange real.
I'm not talking about mod powers. :) more fictional/comic book villain.
Something got flagged here.
5:15 PM
@AndyD273 Telling you that I edited a random message that you posted ages ago to random nonsense
Or just summon everything from the WMD tag
@Mithrandir24601 Actually, that would be pretty mean. Edit someones comment to something that would get them in trouble... Can that be done without leaving a trail?
@AndyD273 You'd leave a trail, yeah. To my knowledge, every action (except voting) leaves a trail for someone, although that someone might need to be a SE dev or something
@Mithrandir24601 Voting leaves a trail for SE devs too, I can promise.
It's stored in a DB somewhere, and if it's stored somewhere, someone somewhere can read it.
@Hosch250 Possibly - I've never had to deal with any issues related to voting but I wouldn't be surprised
5:19 PM
YAY I just saw my community ad on main
@AndyD273 What would be worse... Telling that said hypothetical person that I'd maybe edited one of their messages from ages ago ;)
@Mithrandir24601 SE can reverse votes from user A to user B in case of various kinds of voting fraud.
@Sid Someone flagged "damn", that's why I am here. :) ... as are some other mods, I guess.
@HDE226868 Just a question: is there any way to get display-style in LaTeX Mathmode (not the mathjax $$)? or should I check TeX - LaTeX Stack Exchange?
@MaskedMan This is true enough - I've never had to deal with this kind of thing (hopefully will never have to), so I've never really had to worry about it before :)
@FoxElemental do you mean the \[ and \] ?
I hope it stays that way for you ... and for the rest of us. ;)
5:21 PM
Gotta go for 2 hrs
see ya
@Mithrandir24601 don't think so
@FoxElemental Bye!
Looks like there's nothing bad happening here, so I am teleporting back to my dimension. Enjoy!
@FoxElemental \begin{equation}...\end{equation}?
5:23 PM
@AndyD273 Umm, omnipotence.
@MaskedMan Will do!
The scariest superpower that I can think of is mind control, like Kilgrave from Jessica Jones or Agent John Smith from the Ex-Heroes books, where they can just tell you to do something and you have no will or power to do anything else
@AndyD273 That's about the same as omnipotence.
At the end of the day, you know what the person will be/is doing.
I think Aify's is the closest.
Because with controlled fear, you essentially have mind control, and it's scary just to think about.
@Hosch250 Not quite. Omnipotence means you can control anything, as well as anyone.
5:28 PM
It's literally being all-powerful.
@Hosch250 Not really? omnipotence is closer to what Lucy was at the end of the movie Lucy, or Dr Manhattan.
Well, I was thinking just with regard to people, not objects.
Additionally, an omnipotent being wouldn't even have to be close enough to tell you to do something. They could simply transform you into a mindless slave, or rip you from the universe entirely.
So yeah, I'm going to go with omnipotence for the scariest superpower.
@Gryphon Same with the other superpowers mentioned, no?
I mean, as far as being close enough goes.
I thought that the ones Andy was talking about involved telling people to do something, which is predicated on having a way to communicate with them.
Oh, and hi Monica.
5:31 PM
@Mithrandir24601 your two recent declined flags and one disputed flag were all the result of reviews, not mod action. In the case of the disputed one a mod deleted the post (in response to a later flag).
@dot_Sp0T who's been sharing all our secrets with this guy? :-)
Seriously, though, if you're interested, then nominate! If you don't nominate you can't be a mod; if you do then maybe you can, depending on what the voters think.
Hi Monica
Just wanted to pop in.
@Mithrandir24601 turns out it's the \tag{} function that makes it look like displaymode
Problem solved. See yall in an hour or two
@Gryphon I'm not sure why that one seems slightly less scary to me. Maybe because all of the fictional examples of omnipotence I've seen haven't abused it, more "Well, I can do anything now, so I'm taking off to see the universe."
@MonicaCellio OK, thanks! Although that's also concerning me slightly - you've obviously got the PSA about using flags but it's really hard to use flags if people are just going to decline them. OK, 3 disputed/declined in a row isn't a lot but it's statistically abnormal, so I'm (informally) bringing this up here, in case it's part of a larger pattern of people not closing questions properly or something
5:37 PM
@AndyD273 I don't think anything can really be scarier than someone with the ability to do anything.
There's a reason that the Bible includes phrases like "Fear of the Lord".
@Gryphon True, but even the biblical examples show a lot of restraint. Even the flood. Anyone could have gotten on the Ark if they had believed Noah during the 200 years he was building it. Just because no one did doesn't mean they weren't given the chance.
@Gryphon we've had an RPG ad on this site in the past; they created and submitted it. If that didn't happen this year, somebody could go find it from last year and bring it forward and/or ping the person who posted it to ask about updates. Usually ads for sites come from people active on those sites, as opposed to the hosting site saying "hmm, which other sites should we have ads for?" (Of course, sometimes people are active on both and that's great.)
@Gryphon FWIW, the original word means more than fear. It means respect and honor as well, among others.
@AndyD273 Well yeah, but that's because God also happens to be Omnibenevolent.
@AndyD273 Hence all the verses about God being patient as well.
5:40 PM
@Hosch250 I agree, but fear is definitely a big part of the original meaning.
Definitely respect, but respect of something infinitely greater than oneself.
@Mithrandir24601 yeah, sounds like the community should be talking about some of these cases. These were cases where reviewers handled flags without mod involvement; we wouldn't have even noticed if you hadn't brought it up. Feel free to start a meta discussion or talk about it in here or whatever.
Right. That's kind of my point.
And, TBH, that's, IMO, God doesn't just show up and tell everyone to obey. Because then we'd just be like the dwarves in LOTR before they were given free will.
5:42 PM
@AndyD273 But an omnipotent being that's not omnibenevolent, that's a really good way to accidentally die.
(Assuming you believe God exists.)
@Hosch250 You've read the Silmarillian!
@MonicaCellio OK, I might do that at some point, thanks!
Yes, I have!
I finally have someone to talk to about it!
5:42 PM
@Gryphon fun fact: the Hebrew word translated "fear" there also means "awe". Neither English word fully captures it; think of that overwhelming, stunning feeling you have upon encountering a truly overwhelming power.
I need to re-read it. I've forgotten some of the stories.
@Gryphon Does it count that I've tried to read it several times?
@AndyD273 How far have you gotten?
@MonicaCellio Ahh, I wish that we were told what the Hebrew actually means more often
@Hosch250 If you just want to read the highlights, definitely do the creation chapter, the one on Beren and Luthien, and the one on Gil-Galad
5:44 PM
@Mithrandir24601 If you get a Strongs dictionary you can look it up
@Gryphon Those are the ones I remember--mostly.
@Mithrandir24601 That's the problem with translations. They're never perfect.
@Gryphon I'm really not sure. I kinda zoned out after a while.. It's just so dense
@Mithrandir24601 all translation is commentary, in a sense, because languages aren't exactly equal. That means you need to read with commentaries/footnotes/whatever, or read multiple translations and compare what you see.
@AndyD273 It still doesn't capture everything as well as the Jewish commentators do :P
5:45 PM
@AndyD273 If you just want the highlights, there are a few really good chapters. But yes, the flood of information in between is really dense.
It's been a while too, which doesn't help
@Mithrandir24601 when reading the Jewish bible I definitely recommend Jewish commentaries. :-)
@Secespitus I hope you decide to nominate.
I think I need the readers digest version of the Silmarillion...
There's probably a Spark's Notes version.
@MonicaCellio Yeah, although I find that footnotes still leave out virtually every detail that actually has any effect on the meaning of the sentence
5:47 PM
But I would recommend reading the first chapter at the very least in the original. Also the one on Beren and Luthien.
@Gryphon I'm pretty sure I got at least as far as Beren and Luthien
@AndyD273 That's like halfway through then. That's probably the best chapter.
@MonicaCellio Yep. I found/stumbled across an online link on Mi Yodeya one day :)
@AndyD273 second-wind
@AndyD273 That book's a real treat. (And I mean that sincerely)
5:50 PM
@Mithrandir24601 if you can only do a little, footnotes are better than nothing. If you can spend more time/effort, commentaries are better.
@Gryphon I've read at least some (I think all) of it, but that would have been a good number of years ago now :/ Maybe time for a reread, once I finish Les Mis
@Mithrandir24601 yeah, we've got a whole site full of people who can help with specific questions too. :-)
Excellent. I'm having a lot of trouble finding people I know in real life who have read it. The one I know just left for Rome.
Ho @MonicaCellio nice seeing you in here!
@MonicaCellio Thanks, that's very encouraging.
5:52 PM
@dot_Sp0T hi! I can't stay all that long (at work now), but there's a lot of activity and I haven't been in a while, so I wanted to visit.
@Secespitus you do a lot for the site; I'll admit I've been assuming we would see a nomination from you. Please do!
@MonicaCellio terrible? frightening?
@MonicaCellio I used to be at a Uni where the Dean learned directly from some famous Hebrew scholar, so the stuff she talked about was fascinating and opened my eyes to so much but I'm not there anymore and people with that kind of knowledge are few and far between in the real world :/
@MonicaCellio I'll think about it. I haven't been really active in the whole real-world-questions debate though and that's a topic that's been dominating the site lately.
@Secespitus You don't have to be active in everything
5:56 PM
We're a team for a reason.
@dot_Sp0T some of that, but it's not a wholly negative feeling. Have you ever been in close proximity to something like a super-fierce storm? It's scary and dangerous, but isn't a part of your brain going "oh wow" too? Something like that, but multiplied.
If I were to become a mod it would certainly reduce the amount of flags the mods receive on meta :D
@Secespitus it's a current hot topic, but moderation is for the long haul. Others have come and gone and more will follow.
@Secespitus I remember a candidate on another site, asked why he wanted to be a mod, answering "efficiency".
@MonicaCellio awe-striking
As an example, if there's discussion as to whether a question (or set of questions) might be better for, say, Writing, Monica or Michael would probably be the mods most active there, since they're both Writing mods and are quite familiar with the scope.
5:58 PM
@dot_Sp0T Awe is close, but not quite on.
There's no english equivalent.
And the sad part is, that with our English-thinking brains, even if we learn the language, we still won't understand it properly.
@Hosch250 True. That's the problem with languages. It'd be so much nicer if we could just use telepathy.
@Hosch250 nah, to grok something, you just need to really experience it, then be told 'that thing you just experienced? Here's the word for it'
(more or less)
@Mithrandir24601 That's right--except we can't experience God and then say "here's the word for that feeling".
@dot_Sp0T yup.
6:01 PM
@Hosch250 That's not a language issue though :P
No, until you reach that word :)
@HDE226868 Yeah, but currently I can just walk away from some discussions. It's easy to get me into a discussion mood and it's hard for me to to walk away, but I've learned over the time here that it's sometimes better if I walk away. That's more difficult if there's a diamond attached to your name and people expect you to participate if something comes up.
@Mithrandir24601 That's more a "finite mind" problem.
@Secespitus That's true. Which side are you on on that anyway?
@Gryphon The "real-world questions" debate? Give me some context about what you are building (Book? Game? ...) and why you need help from people with experience in building fictional worlds (Why is Wikipedia not enough?) and I am fine with a lot. But I am not fine with this being used as an excuse to ask anything that comes to your mind just because there could be a fictional world that is exactly like ours and where your character has the exact same problem with programming that you do.
@Secespitus Pretty much the same as me then. It's not off-topic just because its a real-world question, but it's not automatically on-topic either.
6:17 PM
@Secespitus I agree with that. It's basically what @James typed up.
Otherwise all hard-science questions should be closed as off-topic, since they have to be firmly rooted in the real world, with math and current theory to back them up.
@Secespitus Yeah that would be off topic to me too.
7:01 PM
7:19 PM
@dot_Sp0T careful, though. If you run for mod, then people might make a parody of your name, e.g., Run_Sp0T_Run!
Just like "Croatian Tanasa" and "Phoebe Cellio" and "ABC 226868," like in the above post
8:11 PM
@FoxElemental That is an american children book, right? I learned about this from the snorter I think
@Gryphon I've read it.
Anyone of you folks seriously using discord?
@dot_Sp0T I've jokingly used discord once or twice. Never seriously though.
it's really really bad
it's bad to the point that I've been sitting at a google sheet with a friend, making a role/permission matrix to get an overview for a server with some 25 channels/categories
also I'm off for today - please rant about discord while I am away, this will help you bond as a community
@dot_Sp0T As a user, not as an admin.
@Aify FWIW, you could look into this: codereview.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4952/34073
On CR, we have several standard comments for common scenarios.
3 hours later…
11:05 PM
@dot_Sp0T I think so, though I don't know how James would take to being called "the snorter."
On another note, I often don't like writing answers, but I have to admit, they're a good source of rep.
Huh. Scrolling though the Q&A list, I see everyone's proposals except for HDE's and Monica's--those of moderators--have been downvoted at least once. Even Grace, who's a community manager, had her list downvoted--and she stated that two of them were obligatory anyway. I wonder why the downvotes . . .
11:20 PM
Oh, wow. Just read this answer. Very, very thorough
11:43 PM
Hi @Gryphon
See you all tomorrow
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