The Factory Floor - 2018-05-09

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Worldbuilding Meta

12:00 AM

1

Q: Catalog of Question Types

In an effort to start building consensus after asking: Enough is enough. NOBODY can obey rules that are only in someone's head, I'd like to start with what I hope will become a canonical catalog or list of question types we can refer new users toward to help improve site question quality. Obviou...

discussion questions asking-questions

12:27 AM

Is the sandbox slow to load for other people or is it just me? Lately it's been taking 20-30 seconds to load, and once I think it was over a minute. I do have some moderator tooling that could be slowing things down, but on other pages I don't notice the load time. There are 200 answers; is it time to spin up a new main post?

1:01 AM

@Green @AndyD273 @Secespitus @Others too! I've just finished making a last run through all the answers on my teleportation post and chose a correct answer. I want to thank you guys so much for the warm welcome you gave me last week, the help you gave me by directing me to the sandbox, and for helping me to flesh out my question in chat. I don't think I would've gotten nearly as many awesome answers without you guys. Thank you so much!!

3 hours later…

3:36 AM

@scohe001 You are very welcome! Thanks for taking the time to ask around and learn the ropes a bit. Not everyone goes to that trouble as early as you have and it makes a big difference. I look forward to seeing you around.

4 hours later…

7:13 AM

@scohe001 Great that you got good answers! It was a very good question, I am looking forward to your future contributions. Have fun on the site!

@MonicaCellio Yes. I've been shortening some of the bigger deleted drafts and those with pictures to make it a little bit better, but it still takes ages and makes the Sandbox a lot harder to use. I noticed that I have been looking through the Sandbox a lot less since I can see deleted posts.

6 hours later…

1:04 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Questions

Would a self-appraised tax on beauty make sense? In the Spike and Suzy album "De Jolige Joffer" (The Jolly spinster), the introduction mentions a hypothetical tax on beauty (top right of the image, in older Dutch, slightly cut off because I couldn't find as good an image): Transcript: Men...

Future Historian

1:49 PM

Back.....

So, I am still wondering whether I should even bother with the self-replicating probes waking up from hibernation in the Visitor series, and whether humans are still alive or extinct by then.

Future Historian

2:03 PM

And in an unrelated note: what is the likely extraterrestrial affairs policy of a hypothetical post-scarcity civilisation?

For example: even with a post-scarcity economic system or ideology, would a post-scarcity society be willing to fight wars against OTHER civilisations?

Because I am thinking......since The Culture novels take place in a post-scarcity or post-discontent society depending on your perspective, would they REALLY fight wars over petty ideas or other random rubbish?

Just for example?

If they're post-scarcity, they probably have robots that can fight their wars for them

Future Historian

Why would they?

If they've reached the level that robots can make everything they need, then a robot that can fight would be pretty simple

Future Historian

I know. But why would they want to fight in the first place?

What motives does a post-scarcity society have for military conflict?

After all: it is not like they can just say: "I will kill you now" without a decent casus belli, would they?

2:21 PM

People play tactical/strategy video games today, would it not be more fun with a real opponent?

Future Historian

Define "fun" in this context.

And we also need to be aware that the players could die in real life, especially if those robots from other players attack their homes.

So.........

Not exactly what I call "fun".

Also people would be quite willing to defend their society against threats - if I lived in a post-scarcity world, I'd definitely like it to stay post-scarcity.

And rules of engagement can be set, wars fought away from homes, or even go the Westworld route and say the game isn't fun if there are not stakes

Future Historian

Actually.....

Rules are broken all the time.

Journeyman Geek

Boredom ;p

There's probably a certain chance of ideological conflict

and people who think that post scarcity socieities result in weakness

Future Historian

Hmmmm. True.

Journeyman Geek

2:26 PM

Also its fiction

you can do whatever you need

just so we're clear are we talking about wars against external threats or wars between post-scarcity societies?

Future Historian

The thing is.....

Thanks to automation, mostly.

I am trying to be realistic here. Besides, when I say "post-scarcity" I mean an abundance of resources to the point that many products that are now expensive, could be made cheaper or even free.

Resources aren't usually the problem when pricing things - the work spent refining them is the main cost

Future Historian

So, automation needs to be more commonplace, right?

I would say nearly universal

Future Historian

2:33 PM

Oh.

If it's not, then people are going to have to go to work to build the products other people need. And people don't like to go to work for free, so they're going to need to be paid. And if you pay the laborer, then you have to pay for the product, and suddenly you're no longer post-scarcity

Happy timezone!

@Green ?

@bendl since we have people all over the planet, it's easier to say "happy timezone" instead of "good morning" and see the inevitable "Well, it's 11pm for me here."

Ah

Clearly I haven't been in chat very long xD

2:40 PM

hey @HDE226868

And on that topic, what are the numbers next to people's names some times? eg Future Historian has 802 and earlier I was 4382

@Green Hey there.

@bendl I think it's general rep count.

a

b

c

Yeah, it is.

Across all my SE sites, I have about 40k of rep.

That makes sense

Future Historian

Hmmmmm. So, in the Culture novels, how did Earth-Culture First Contact pan out?

Was it peaceful or did Earth get attacked?

Because I had an idea for the Visitor series.

2:51 PM

@Secespitus Please help?

With the Governmental Question

Future Historian

Since they have nanofactories, could they be a post-scarcity society?

3:05 PM

hi, i have some questions about world building section

Hi!

@byte96 What's your question?

@bendl Hi, i dont understand the focus of the questions in worldbuilding, the users want to create a world in her computer or its only imagination/books ideas or the discussions are only assumptions ??

the topics seem to me very interesting but i cant comment because i dont understand they want to do with that..

@byte96 Any or all. We don't ask about the purpose of the question, as long as it meets the rules. You can read the [help] for more information

Specifically, worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/help

and worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic

If a question is asked properly, you should have no trouble answering if you have the proper knowledge because the acceptance criteria should be obvious (although I'll admit that's not always the case)

3:33 PM

@byte96 As bendl said, the use of the question isn't something we worry about. Sometimes, questions are just idle speculation but that's not usually stated.

My base assumption is that people are asking questions for use in books thus I'll refer to "As the Author, you can do whatever you want." The only true God on WB is The Author.

@James I thought of a nice troll. A WB old-timer gets themselves elected to moderator then changes their name to "The Author". Thus truly making them the god of WB.

@Green Most of my questions tend to be not based on my own ideas, but rather taking throwaway statements from fiction or even interviews and creating a question about them

@Nzall I don't write stories at all anymore. I'm far more interested in the behavior of the underlying systems that might drive a story forward.

i understand, thanks for the response

@byte96 And welcome to WB chat!

@byte96 do you write? How did you find WB?

@Green thanks, i see an interesting question in Hot Questions and i started to investigate the board, but i didn't understand the approach

3:43 PM

@Anonymous If you mean the draft in the Sandbox: I helped as much as I could. I simply can't help you with this topic.

@byte96 Welcome to WorldBuilding, the site for all the crazy people trying to create their own fictional world, whether it is for a book, movie, videogame or just because building imaginary worlds is a lot of fun!

3

Each question needs to state what is different about their world in contrast with our real world and then state at which point they are having problems with internal consistency. That's normally where we can start helping people with the specific elements of their world

If you are ever not sure if a draft will be well-received you can also place it in our Sandbox before posting it on Main to get some feedback on whether it's on-topic or some things need to be worked out.

4:16 PM

@Secespitus ok, so it's not just me then. Thanks. I'd like to invite any interested Sandbox regular to set up a new page and update all the links and whatnot. This doesn't require a moderator except at the end where we close the current question. We've done this once before so there's existing history to look at, but I haven't been deeply involved in sandbox maintenance aside from answering flags. :-)

@MonicaCellio I'll see if I can find the time on the weekend.

@Secespitus thanks! I appreciate all you do for this site. (And others. :-) )

4:44 PM

@MonicaCellio Thanks :D

@Secespitus Thanks for helping as much as you did. I'll post it in a week if no one else responds

5:11 PM

@MonicaCellio Also, it's nice to see you in chat again. Hi!

@byte96 You might enjoy this meta-WB question.

17

Q: Why do YOU hang out on Worldbuilding?

So I looked for this and my search did not reveal a duplicate, but I have a feeling that this has been asked before. If it's a duplicate, I would really like to know where. :) Why do you folks come to Worldbuilding Stack Exchange? There are some people who ask tons of questions, and others wh...

@Green hi! Nice to see you too!

@MonicaCellio Are you still singing your all those choirs?

@Green just one choir, but yes. In fact, for the first time I'm directing our choir in one piece for a concert this summer. Conducting is an adventure!

@MonicaCellio Music mystifies me. Conducting choirs or bands even more.

@Green let me check

5:20 PM

This reminds me. We haven't talked about how to destroy the world recently.

Big Rocks from Space is passe. Let's find something new.

what is the difference between world-buildng and world-building meta ?

@Green firy magma bubbling up from the depths seems topical.

@Green I thought we just switched from macro worlddestruction to microworlddestruction? Hired Assassin NGO's and such

@Secespitus Damn, that's right. We did switch to micro-destruction.

@byte96 The first is the main site where we talk about creating worlds Q&A style, the latter is the meta site where we discuss how the site is suppoesd to work

5:26 PM

@Secespitus (I may never live down that question and I'm really not sad about that.)

@byte96 worldbuilding is the main site; meta is where you ask questions about the site -- policies, handling specific questions, tags, stuff like that.

@MonicaCellio Good point. The Siberian Traps sounds like fun.

ahh, okey okey

@Green this is somebody else's performance of the song I'm conducting:

Matthew Lazar conducts Rossi Hallelujah, Psalm 146

@Secespitus What other social problem could be cured/treated by selling a right to something.

5:32 PM

@Green Population growth

@MonicaCellio Same size group or larger group?

Our performance will be outdoors with attendant bad recording acoustics, but with luck we'll get something from a cell phone.

@Secespitus in what way?

Selling the right to procreate?

@Green larger; our choir has about 24 people in it. ("About" because there's always some fuzziness as people have to step out for school or job stuff or whatnot and then come back in, but I think that'll be our count for this performance.)

Last year I directed a small group -- four people, one on a part -- for one song. This is...different.

@MonicaCellio Can you hear when/if a specific individual is off-key?

5:36 PM

@Green not in our full choir, no. I can hear that something is off, have a decent chance of isolating it to a section, but usually can't get it down to one person without hearing a subset (just that section, or just two sections) go through the phrase again to diagnose. Which we do sometimes. Our (main) director can usually hear who's off, but she's been doing this for a long time.

There are also some individuals with distinctive voices and imperfect blend; I can hear if one of them is off. But we try to fix blend problems and then I can't. :-)

@MonicaCellio Which is such bonkers signals analysis that it blows my mind. Being able to tune out all the voices that are singing the same note in slightly different ways then hear the one voice that's wrong and identify who that is.....crazy-go-nuts.

@Green knowing the piece well makes a huge difference. For the piece I'm directing, I've memorized all the individual lines (not that I can necessarily sing them in their proper ranges, but I know what they should sound like, in detail) and I listen to a (digital, not performed) mix a lot to get the whole into my head.

@MonicaCellio Oh good idea!

Future Historian

shivers in terror

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no!!!

I am literally scared to even type right now.

starts hyperventilating

@Green learned from our director; I didn't figure that out on my own. :-) (I did surprise the sopranos on Monday by singing part of their line in a trouble spot. Boy was that squeaky. I am not a soprano.)

@FutureHistorian what's wrong?

(I realize I'm asking you to type. Sorry.)

Future Historian

5:48 PM

H...h....horror films!

WHY????????

No...I am n...not going......anywhere near them......

starts hyperventilating and shivering in terror

Ah. Not my favorite genre either.

(Gotta go to a meeting. Later, all!)

Future Historian

Sorry....I....I....I am not going near a horror movie, friendly invitation or not!

6:06 PM

Question: why should I care that possible answers on a brainstorming website are primarily opinion based, just because the platform itself has that as a reason to close questions? Isn't the entire point of this stack to get opinions of other people on how to solve a particular problem?

Just something that quite irks me about this stack even after hanging around in here for a couple of years

@Nzall Well, this is not a brainstorming website. And if we want to be part of the overall network, we have to play by the rules of the network. The idea is to get help that will allow you to move forward. Not to have brainstorming sessions as if everyone was building one big world together.

But yeah, there are always very many discussions about this. And recently we've had a big surge of those discussions on Meta.

I'm honestly feeling that POB is actually one of the reasons why people consider this network to be not very welcoming.

It means you can only ask questions that have a concrete fact based answer, and a bunch of sites are harder to fit into that aspect

I still don't see why having rules equals being unwelcoming... the way you communicate rules may not be welcoming...

Having rules doesn't mean being unwelcoming. Having weird and senseless rules equals being unwelcoming

I mean, POB is a fine close reason for fact-based stacks, like the main site and a lot of the technical sites, but cooking? Worldbuilding? Writing? Travel? Gaming? It's perfectly fine for those stacks to have opinion-based answers

2

6:36 PM

@Nzall WB is weird that way. We have a range of answers between hard-science and fantasy. POB and Too Broad are usually pretty similar in that the question fails to constrain the possible answer space.

Personally, I hardly use the POB close reason. It's either Too Broad or Not sure what you're asking.

@Green I make the distinction between POB and TooBroad as "Every reasonable answer is exactly equally valid" and "You expect us to write a whole book for you"

I bet someone else will have a nuanced answer for the difference between ....

And Secespitus has it. :)

Of course :D

@Green In the second part of this answer I have longer versions

@Secespitus Seems like a good distinction to me.

While we are at the topic of closing/reopening... What do you guys think about this question? I tried to change it to be on-topic, but the reviewers didn't agree. I tried to rephrase what looked close to "How should I name?" to "Where can I find resources for what others use in this instance?", which I think should be on-topic, but apparently I have failed.

6:49 PM

@Secespitus I don't like that question because it seems really close to "Let me google that for you." and I Hate Googling stuff for people.

@Green Shouldn't we disallow resources questions in that case in general?

@Secespitus No we shouldn't disallow resource questions. I'm unsure of the nuance between let me google that for you and resource questions.

Let me think for a bit.

@Green Ease of finding the answer? Meaning, if you can type the question they post in the question into google, and get the right answer, then it's not great. If it takes a bit of specialized knowledge, then it's better.

My grievance is this. Getting a list of Trickster like magic users feels like someone has already built that list somewhere and it can be found within 10 minutes on Google. Resource questions that look for map making software requires experience in that domain to be able to answer. Sure, Google helps a lot too but it's the required domain knowledge that seems to make the difference to me.

@AndyD273 Yes.

But you have to compare lists, check their sources and compare each to the specific requirements. Without any in-depth knowledge of fantasy magic systems this doesn't look trivial to me.

6:55 PM

Quantum physics isn't my strongest subject, and it's not for most people, so it might take someone that has a bit of specialized knowledge of quantum physics to point you in the right direction. Dog biology is much more readily available, so unless you have a really specific question you can probably get pretty far just by asking google first.

@Secespitus Maybe I'm just grumpy today.

Mithrandir24601

@Secespitus I think that this is fine as is. You've defined what the question is and what the best answers are, so I don't see anything else required to make it on topic. I don't think it's too broad...

@Secespitus Very fair point. Every knowledge is specialized to someone. So maybe instead of just telling someone they are dumb for not knowing the answer or knowing how to get the answer, just leave the question for someone that has the time, patience, or knowledge to give the answer. Why I'm mostly a "live and let live" for almost all questions.

@Green Or I am just too lenient with magic questions again... Ah, whatever...

@Secespitus I can't articulate why I don't like that question so I'm just going to leave it alone.

6:59 PM

@Secespitus Magic isn't physics. It shouldn't be held to the same standard as Hard Science.

Speaking of arguments, I found this description of the various categories of online arguments.

slatestarcodex.com/2018/05/08/…

Worldbuilding Meta

7:52 PM

0

Q: Getting More Sandbox Helpers

Regarding this post: Call to Sandbox Duty I’ve referred people to this sandbox, and the idea is to get better posts. For that to work we need to discuss why a question is too broad or unclear, and help the OP edit it so that it can be posted as a good question. This is a great ...

discussion sandbox users

8:04 PM

I'd appreciate anyone helping me with this Sandbox Question:"Viability of Many Suns." The Sandbox

Also: When the new Sandbox is posted, what will happen to the unposted/undeveloped questions in the old Sandbox?

@Anonymous They will get further refined by the OP and others willing to help. Or they get abandoned and at some point someone will flag them for moderator attention so they are deleted. Basically: nothing out of the ordinary.

@Anonymous The structure of this question bugs me. You're adamant about getting 27 stars in the solar system but have included some of the largest celestial bodies we know of next to some astronomically tiny ones.

Or you could simply take them and work on them further in the new Sandbox. Depends on how long you intend to work on them.

Dealing with the gravitational interactions in this 27 body system is hard enough. Inventing new physics for light just makes it that much harder. Even your description of light is inconsistent. After describing the characteristics of light, you tell us to ignore those new physics and just pretend it's "regular light".

@Anonymous If you'd like, I can try transforming what you've written into something I think might work better. Would you be interested?

1 hour later…

9:17 PM

@Green do you know of any problems of a land creature that has a transparent covering allowing you to see it's organs?

@Amoeba Like this?

@Secespitus yeah but its the whole body and not just the head

2 hours later…

10:54 PM

hey there @Mithrandir24601

11:08 PM

Anyone?

Mithrandir24601

11:56 PM

@Shalvenay Ni hao! About to head to bed though :/

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