The Factory Floor

3:00 PM

@HDE226868 It really is! My girlfriend, who works as an R&D chemist, has benefited more from her teaching degree than her chemistry degree in her job. Explaining things to sales and marketing in a language they understand prevents them from promising customers things that aren't physically possible.

AndyD273

"You take a large gas giant, and put a small black hole in the middle. Because of the gravitational forces pulling matter in and releasing a lot of energy, the gas giant will look a lot like a star, even though there is no fusion happening."

Green

@AndyD273 That summary would go a long way towards helping with comprehension.

HDE 226868

@sphennings Oh, absolutely. I imagine that engineers, programmers and some scientists have to deal with that a lot.

@AndyD273 Would you mind if I use a variant of that?

Secespitus

@HDE226868 As a programmer I can confirm your hypothesis

Green

@Secespitus As an IT architect, I too can confirm this hypothesis. Most my job is translating what the customer says they want into product requirements that the engineers can understand/implement.

AndyD273

3:03 PM

@HDE226868 By all means! Like I said, the first paragraph really did work, I just don't have the background to fully understand the rest. It's partly why I avoid the hard science questions. I get the concepts enough to make an answer, but don't have the math to show my work.

sphennings

Most of what I do in QA Automation is explain to programmers why business requirements matter and explain to Project Managers why some things are easy to automate and others are impossible.

HDE 226868

@Green I was relieved that it worked well the first time around. I spent ~ 2 hours checking through data and making sure things were reasonable enough.

Green

@HDE226868 I appreciate your validation efforts. Very few WBers could check your work.

JDługosz

@AndyD273 That's Charles Stross’ “necro star” from Palimpsest.

AndyD273

@HDE226868 Also, I'm not completely sure I get your mass measurments... 10^1M would be 10 solar masses, 10^2M would be 100 solar masses, which is fine, but the way it's written 10^1-2M is throwing me off.

JDługosz

3:11 PM

Black holes don’t suck.

HDE 226868

@AndyD273 I was trying to write 10^1-10^2 solar masses relatively compactly.

sphennings

@HDE226868 I'd optimize for clarity not compactness.

AndyD273

@HDE226868 That's kind of what I was thinking. It was just a little confusing at first because I was trying to figure out if it was some other math that I didn't know about :) I know it's less Hard Science than what you have, but you could simplify it by just saying 10-100 solar masses...

HDE 226868

@AndyD273 @sphennings Fair point, editing.

AndyD273

So it basically works sorta like a giant florescent lightbulb? Energy released by the gas falling into the black hole excites the gas cloud envelope, causing it to light up? Since there is no fusion happening. I'm probably missing something :)

HDE 226868

3:23 PM

That's basically it, yes.

Green

Anyone familiar with Fortran? I want to move some run-time variables from a header file (that needs to be recompiled each time) to a config file that gets loaded on execution.

AndyD273

@JDługosz Had to refresh my memory on that. It's been a while since I read that one. The necrostar is just the Sun with a black hole injected into the middle, while this one is a protostar (huge gas cloud that hasn't collapsed enough to bootstrap fusion) with a black hole in the middle.

will.tip.dhappy.org/blog/Porn%20Recommender/.../book/by/…

On a side note, a palimpsest sounds like something that you wouldn't talk about in polite company...

"Did you hear? They found him doing palimpsest!"
"No, I never would have imagined!"

Future Historian

Test.

So, what did I miss on the nuclear discussion?

AndyD273

@FutureHistorian We're going to skip fission and throw a black hole in the middle of it.

Future Historian

I meant in the nuclear terrorist attack discussion earlier.

AndyD273

3:30 PM

Which has absolutely nothing to do with your question :)

Future Historian

Because I should note: I did an update on the matter.

I changed it to be Iranian terrorists.

Oh and the bomb is now a higher blast yield of 40 kt.

So?

Iranian terrorists sound like a better idea to you?

AndyD273

@FutureHistorian Yeah, I kinda gotta admit that I have to agree with the others... It really has a lot of variable that could make it go a lot of different ways.

sphennings

@FutureHistorian Those changes do nothing about the core problem with the question, which is that "Asking for political ramifications of [complicated event X] is likely too broad."

AndyD273

It doesn't matter where the bomb comes from

It doesn't matter who drops it, really

Future Historian

Well, what does matter?

is lost

AndyD273

3:33 PM

Who's in power when it's done, and what their personality is like.

Future Historian

Oh.

So, even if I limited the extent of the ramifications, I am still dead?

AndyD273

In a case like this you'd have martial law at a start, while the successor is found. Maybe the military takes over, at least for a while?

All travel is shut down for quite a while

sphennings

If I asked the question "What would my character Bob do in the event of a zombie apocalypse." it would be closed as character based. If I edited the question to clarify that I am talking about fast zombies, I haven't done anything to fix what is wrong with the question.

Journeyman Geek

why not elbonian terrorists?

AndyD273

@JourneymanGeek Nukes made of mud are dirty bombs.

Journeyman Geek

3:36 PM

;p

yup

AndyD273

@FutureHistorian It really is pretty character dependent, though there are some predicable outcomes that might make a better focus for the question.

And I'd be willing to believe that there is a contingency plan somewhere for this exact thing.

If I were to try to answer the real question as I see it, here's what I'd put.

1. All travel is shut down and martial law is declared. People rush to figure out who the designated survivor is and swear them in as quickly as possible.

2. The military is put on the highest alert while the admirals and generals debate who to nuke first.

3. If somehow WW3 is avoided, and we also avoid the military just taking over, the new president will start searching for new supreme court justices and get an election set up for the house and senate as fast as possible so things can get started back up again. A new temporary capitol will be set up until Washington DC can be rebuilt. If it's too radioactive then it's possible that we'll get a new permanent capitol.

JDługosz

3:53 PM

@AndyD273 not quite — they disassembled the sun, putting out the natural fusion. Then used the gas in the more efficient manner, to last for trillions of years.

Future Historian

Well, that can work.

AndyD273

@FutureHistorian It's a little vague, but here's what I've found so far of the contingency plan:

Continuity of Operations

Continuity of Operations (COOP) is a United States federal government initiative, required by U.S. presidential directive, to ensure that agencies are able to continue performance of essential functions under a broad range of circumstances. The National Security Presidential Directive-51 (NSPD-51), the Homeland Security Presidential Directive-20 (HSPD-20), and the National Continuity Policy specify certain requirements for continuity plan development, including the requirement that all federal executive branch departments and agencies develop an integrated, overlapping continuity capability. The...

Future Historian

Well, still, how long can this go on without destroying the US as a political entity anyway?

Alright.

So, further limitations to the States themselves.

0

Q: What would change on a political context in the United States between 2018 and 2020 if they were to be hit by a nuclear terrorist attack?

So, a little thing that propped into my head was an interesting idea I had. So, let us say it is the year 2018, and a bunch of Iranian terrorists are able to smuggle a 40 kt nuclear device stolen from Pakistan (which fell into a civil war in late 2017 after anti-government protests turned violent...

See?

AndyD273

@FutureHistorian That's a tough question. I'd go with "as long as we're able to secure our borders"

sphennings

Political entity is such a nebulous concept that the answer can be basically whatever you want it to be.

Future Historian

3:57 PM

I meant as in: the US as a nation ceases to exist.

sphennings

@FutureHistorian "Asking for political ramifications of [complicated event X] is likely too broad."

Future Historian

Well, what would you ask if you were the one doing the question?

Well?

If you were the one asking the question, what would you do differently?

sphennings

Honestly I'd pick whatever was best suited for the story I was writing. Once I'd decided on what the political ramifications that resulted in the world I wanted. I'd ask people I trust if they bought my explanation for how the world ended up the way it did.

Future Historian

Because I have an idea.

I am going to ask that earlier question of whether the US can withstand the attack or not.

And survive without collapsing on itself.

AndyD273

@FutureHistorian That's what I mean. How does a nation cease to exist? The people are still there (or the ones that survive The Event), and the land is still there, even if it's glowing... Even the ones that were taken over by Russia after WW2 were still nations. They became the USSR, but once the USSR fell apart the countries remained...

sphennings

4:06 PM

"Would the United States exist as a nation after [complicated event X]" is a better question. I think it's probably going to be too opinion based. Try it out on the sandbox and see what feedback you get on it.

AndyD273

@JDługosz Hmm, yes, upon further rereading of that section I do see that... Very good.

Future Historian

Alright, much better.

I think...........

Besides, here we go.

0

Q: Would the US as a nation cease to exist iif a nuclear terrorist attack struck it in 2018?

Alright, so since the earlier question turned out to be too broad, I am going to ask a different one now. Here is the scenario from the earlier question: "So, a little thing that propped into my head was an interesting idea I had. So, let us say it is the year 2018, and a bunch of Iranian terro...

warfare politics near-future dystopia nuclear-weapons

notices grammar error and rushes to fix the question

So? @sphennings and/or @AndyD273? Now is it better?

sighs

I feel alone now.

:(

Either that or I am just too impatient.

AndyD273

Probably the latter

Future Historian

Oh.

:D

So, is the question better now?

Or still too broad?

Or is it opinion-based now?

AndyD273

Did anyone ever compare you to a puppy on speed before?

I mean that in a nice way :)

sphennings

4:14 PM

@FutureHistorian chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/37249708#37249708

@FutureHistorian Once you ask a question our only real options are editing, and voting to close. We have a policy against invalidating a question by editing it after it has been answered. The only real option after a question has been answered is voting to close it. Because of this we have a place for people who are unsure of the quality of their questions to get feedback on them before posting them.

We call it the [sandbox](https://worldbuilding.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4835/sandbox-for-proposed-questions) In the future please refrain from posting a question, then asking chat
"So, is the question better now?, Or still too broad?, Or is it opinion-based now?"

AndyD273

@FutureHistorian if you were to put it into the sandbox, I'd propose a slight change in focus... maybe something like "How do I explain the US fracturing into multiple smaller countries" as that's kind of how I'm reading the question now. I don't know if I see that being an outcome of your senario as stated though.

Historically in times of crisis the nation pulls closer together, not fall apart. We don't generally see ourselves as seperate states, and so if the nation is threatened, we're more likely to be more united, at least until the threat is ended.

JDługosz

4:36 PM

@AndyD273 I have a good memory for that sort of thing.

AndyD273

4:46 PM

@FutureHistorian You got a couple answers there. Pretty close to my own thoughts on the subject.

And I hope I didn't offend with the puppy on speed comment. Just slow down and let things happen. Expecting instant results is a great way to drive yourself crazy.

DaaaahWhoosh

5:41 PM

hmm... I want to update the WB ad on RPG.SE, but the answer isn't a wiki and it's posted by a mod, so I'm worried that modifying it is a faux pas

but I've commented on the answer with a link to the updated image, and have not heard back in like three days

I think the best option would be to make a meta question about it, but I don't like drawing attention to myself, especially on sites I don't frequent

oh, I probably should've said, I'm looking for advice

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