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12:55 AM
@HDE226868 sadly, Eldritch Abomination is a full time job but if I didn't have this gig, I'd be up for it.
 
hey there @Green, how're things going?
 
 
7 hours later…
7:43 AM
So for both of you who might be interested:
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Questions

Pavel JanicekAssuming someone's identity: How probable is being caught on travel? Story time: In Prague, Czech Republic, I have met a person from USA who looks like me. Except the usual "Add glasses and change hairstyle" trope (Warning: TVTropes link). Lets call this fictional person Joe. I befriended Joe ...

If dead body is found in Czech Republic, DNA test is done to be 100% sure that such person's identity. Because my original plan involved leaving all Pavel's belongings in that body, story Pavel is in deep trouble
But, it actually helped with the story itself, because that may be great plot twist :)
 
 
5 hours later…
12:59 PM
Ok, the big question I have is: I look like the guy on the passport. I have photocopy of US passport, deliberately done in way where the face is visible, but it basically resembles me. I am at US embassy, claiming lost passport. How much will they check if I am the guy on the passport?
 
1:22 PM
@PavelJanicek Sadly, or thankfully, I have no experience in trying to get emergency travel documents in foreign countries...
 
Luckily, (or sadly), me neither
 
Did find this though: businessinsider.com/…
 
hmm, which helps a lot
so I will most definitely have emergency passport to get me back to US
question is, how much will the TSA agents check if I am the guy on the papet
paper
 
Oh, here's the slightly more official page: travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/…
 
Yep, that I found
But it did not hint about the emergency passport
And it sort of sounds that photocopy of passport is not enough to prove US citizenship
 
1:31 PM
@PavelJanicek It does list birth certificate too... Which maybe Joe had with him?
 
Story purpose, he can have it with him, but I am not sure if "common US citizen" takes birth certificate with them when travelling abroad
Especially when travelling to country which is considered as safe European retreat
 
Joe's just a bit fastidious about that kind of thing. All countries have muggers
 
True.
But would you take birth certificate with you when travelling abroad @AndyD273 ?
 
@PavelJanicek Dunno, maybe? Especially if someone suggested it might be a good idea? Could have Joe tell a story about a friend that got mugged in Morocco, and how big of a pain it was to get back home. If he'd thought to bring his birth certificate then he would have had a much easier time
The good news is, if you happened to miss a detail or two, almost no one will know that you did, because very few have experience with it, and if someone does call you out on it, just say "Well, I didn't want to give a step by step on how to murder and steal someones identity."
 
Also true
 
1:39 PM
Once again, I don't know if the emergency passport is actually needed. It would be interesting to talk to someone who has traveled internationally and returned by air, and if they check fingerprints.
 
@Green That does sound like a job that would keep you occupied, yeah.
 
I can ask my mom.
But, again, it might not be the best example since she tripped the drug screener.
Not sure how, since she quit about 30 years ago (unless she did it on the sly there)...
 
Maybe just one of those records that sticks with you
 
She had no trouble going out.
It was just coming back, and, IIRC, she was never caught before.
 
People don't often smuggle drugs out of the country?
Oh, I dunno
 
1:46 PM
It was the first time she flew, too.
She was just a local street dealer before.
 
Or, they don't care if people smuggle drugs out of the country
Was she ever arrested?
 
No.
Only thing on her record is a driving citation.
Not even a ticket, just a citation.
 
Weird
 
2:25 PM
@Shalvenay They're going really well. I'm making (very) slow progress on my airplane project. Work is going well (I'm not struggling to catch up on domain knowledge anymore) How's things with you?
 
2:42 PM
@PavelJanicek From what I can tell, though the sources are several years old and may be out of date, they do not check fingerprints for US citizens returning from abroad. Everyone else gets fingerprinted and photographed, but not citizens.
 
@PavelJanicek I never take my birth certificate with me when traveling abroad.
 
0_0
does anyone?
@AndyD273 there's a plan to basically allow passport free entry into singapore if you pre-register, using facial recognition and iris scanning ;p
 
Why would you? Your passport is based on your birth certificate so bringing the certificate with you is redundant and risky.
 
no fingerprints
also no one brings birth certs for anything
 
@Green Yeah getting a new one is a pain too.
 
2:48 PM
I carry ID, sure but its cause so much stuff in singapore relies on it
@James overseas, yeah, especially if your local consultate or embassy is in another state or city
 
@James Getting a duplicate birth certificate wasn't difficult, just time consuming. Turns out, if you know what to ask for and pay the fees, they'll just send you one.
 
@Green if you're stuck in another country....
 
@JourneymanGeek Well, you likely don't have weeks to wait while the State Burea of Records looks up and duplicates your birth certificate.
 
@Green actually funny thing that
I once renounced a citizenship
 
@Green I had to get a replacement birth certificate for one of the kids, just dropped by the city offices, paid a small fee, picked it up. Wasn't a huge deal.
 
2:50 PM
took...
2 years
 
@JourneymanGeek really? Why so long?
 
Did you have unpaid taxes ;)
 
There may have been a few things, but it was a few years ago
 
the big joke being I'd never stepped in the country before
 
2:52 PM
If you don't mind the question, why go through the trouble?
 
@Green sri lankan defence ministry had trouble deciding if I was a terrorist
@AndyD273 ah. Illegal dual nationality
So, my dad was a Sri Lankan citizen at the time of my birth so I got citizenship there by birth
 
I know that renouncing US citizenship is impossible if you have taxes due.
 
@Green I've reached a point in my life where time consuming = difficult mainly because time is my limiting resource.
 
I later got singapore citizenship by virtue of being born here and living a while here but I couldn't renounce till I was 18, and singapore dosen't do dual nationalities
 
@JourneymanGeek So you had to renounce Sri Lanka before you could get citizenship in Singapore?
 
2:54 PM
@AndyD273 er
More like singapore would be deeply unhappy if I didn't
And would fine me
and throw me in jail
 
@JourneymanGeek Singapore fascinates me...actually a lot of SE Asia fascinates me I want to visit but it seems intimidating.
 
@James Its fine unless your political ;p
 
Its so linguistically and culturally different I don't even know where to start.
 
We speak english in singapore ;p
 
I want to do it but I feel like I need a friend from the places I want to visit to help me navigate.
 
2:57 PM
and don't forget a good chunk of the region was a colony
eh, I managed france with no french ;p
 
@JourneymanGeek Right, I've been to France, Germany, the Netherlands, and Greece...even with the language barrier enough people spoke English it wasn't a big deal.
But they are also culturally familiar which makes it easier...at least in my brain.
 
IIRC, China also doesn't do dual citizenship, but mostly they just refuse to believe it's possible. Like, a LOT of chinese women do tourist stuff in the US around their due date so they can have their babies born in the US. But their government doesn't officially recognize the US citizenship in addition to the Chinese citizenship
 
@James Flash cash and be uber-arrogant, and they'll think you're a rich, fickle American :P
 
Now I also have something called an OCI
Its basically an indian citizenship with certain rights stripped out so its not a citizenship
which is handy since my folks are around there, and it acts like a lifetime visa too
 
@JourneymanGeek Was there any special reason you chose Singapore over Sri Lanka, other than living in Singapore?
 
3:01 PM
Funny story, I was in Athens, and I had this idea that I wanted to find a copy of the Illiad and the Odyssey written in Greek. Not because I can read Greek but I thought it'd be cool to have. So I went into a bookstore. The little old man barely spoke English (apparently not many tourists want to buy books). After 10 minutes of failed communication a woman who spoke English walked in and saved us all.
 
@Hosch250 My dad switched, and we followed. And a singapore citizenship's more useful
 
@Hosch250 Screw those guys :D
 
I have no real ties to sri lanka outside my dad growing up there
 
@James Agree, LOL.
 
@Hosch250 My only IRL experience of Americans involved them being rude and flashing cash.
 
3:04 PM
@JourneymanGeek Makes sense.
@Bellerophon Yeah, American tourists have a reputation for that...
 
I do joke sometimes that if I work remote, I'd probably just move to india
 
Part of the reason I'm not really interesting in touring.
 
get a little self contained solar and wind powered cottage with fibre internet and a dog...
 
@Hosch250 Europe is weird for me...awesome, but weird. While we were in Greece we spent some time on an island we ended up spending two evenings hanging out with a British dude and his Polish girlfriend.
 
I don't want to be involved with that simply by association, and I'm mostly interested in ourdoorsy stuff, and the US is big enough to have everything I'd need--tundra to mountain to plain to rainforest. And Canada and Mexico have more.
 
3:07 PM
@Hosch250 Greece was amazing, and if you like hiking...they built everything important on the side of freaking mountains...
 
We've got the Rockies, the Appalachians, and the range on the pacific coast.
 
@noob I think you may have stumbled into the wrong chat...
 
Not to mention the badlands buttes and various small chains here and there.
 
@noob This is the chat for the worldbuilding stack, not for coding.
 
@James He's just random-spamming all the chatrooms.
 
3:09 PM
@Hosch250 What'd you see?
 
@James Click his profile and visit some of the c. 10 chatrooms he's in.
He's just posting it in all of them.
 
@Hosch250 My wife and I don't run into this problem just by the nature of how and where we travel. We don't go to the super touristy spots (tourist traps are the worst), rather we go to the fun places where other tourists aren't. All interactions with locals happen on a one-on-one basis. Sure, they may be prejudiced about loud Americans but if you are polite, they'll adapt to you very quickly.
 
@Green Cool. Nice to know.
 
@noob Please focus on the appropriate chatroom and be patient. You're likely to see at chat ban if you keep this up.
 
Still, I'll probably mostly stick in the US doing car trips to parks, but if I ever get unnecessary amounts of cash, I can always burn it that way without being too annoying :)
 
3:14 PM
@Green This is my method too. One of my favorites was getting drunk in a little store in St Maarten when no cruise ships were in town. He was bored and we started chatting, then he offered us some of his homemade rum varieties...
 
@Hosch250 We also prefer a style of travel where we go some place we want to explore then stay for a few days. That's enough time to get to meet people in a capacity beyond "You American! You buy my stuff!".
@James Swigging rum would do me zero favors but that kind of experience is the kind I like the most.
 
Same. You can't really see something if you don't settle down for a few days at least.
Otherwise, you just get a brief overview, but you don't see the details.
 
And it saves you from being exhausted with travel. Moving to a new hotel every day just takes so much out of you.
 
@Hosch250 We went to Greece for 13 days. We arrived with a three day hotel reservation in Athens and virtually no other plans.
 
Longest trip I did was 3 days in Theodore Roosevelt park, north section.
 
3:16 PM
@James I think I could travel that way but having no plans would drive my wife completely bonkers.
 
It wasn't long enough :(
 
@Green Mine wasn't particularly a fan...
 
But, on the other hand, I got allergies really badly from not having air conditioning and not bathing, and the campground host told me to not try the harder trails because they are some of the hardest trails in the country because they aren't maintained too well and I don't know backcountry packing.
 
@James Funny that you work as a project manager where your whole job is to have a plan and get people to stick to it.
 
@Green Speaking of nightmare fuel... a vacation with the wife without everything planned out months in advance
 
3:18 PM
So, I only did better marked trails (which you could still only see about 10 feet ahead in many places).
 
@James How did she feel about it after it was all done?
 
@James Why? Not having plans is fun. You can do what you want, not what you planned.
Make some points to see, but just do what is interesting at the moment.
How do you know what you want to see without being there and seeing what it is really like?
 
@Hosch250 There's a balance there. No plans means you spend a lot of time making sure you have a place to stay or something to eat, which means you can't go exploring. Conversely, if you're scheduled down to the 15 minute interval, if you see something really cool, you can't change course because that will mess up the rest of your schedule.
 
Make plans the second visit, maybe, but keep the first one more a probing experience.
@Green True about place to stay. Something to eat is usually easier if you are in a city--find the golden arches!
I ended up sleeping in my car on a 45 degree (F) night in ND, because I didn't plan :)
That was very very cold.
 
@Hosch250 ...Golden Arches...*cringe* Yes, you can do that....
 
3:24 PM
@Green Yeah, it is cringe. I like to find a Subway instead.
Or buy a yogurt from a gas station.
 
@Hosch250 Or, if you're out of the country, you've got to identify the local equivalent to Subway/McDonalds/etc.
 
In the country is harder, but if I'm going to the country, I grab a day or several worth of food that can last.
 
@Hosch250 This was "Subway" for me in Iceland. bonus.is
Bonus points for the deranged pig logo.
3
 
@Green The wife doesn't need that much structure, but not having hotels booked for the whole trip ahead of time would be a huge stress point.
 
@AndyD273 TBF, that does make sense.
 
3:28 PM
@AndyD273 Mine wouldn't travel without hotels/AirBnB for the whole trip either.
 
Sleeping in the car is an overrated pastime.
There were three hotels where I was in ND, and they were all booked to the last room.
But, I didn't realize at the time, I could've gone to a campground and registered myself.
 
I must say that one of the nice things about knowing what you're doing ahead of time is that it's almost always cheaper. You can go when the flights/hotels are cheapest and get all the good deals ahead of time.
 
@Gryphon Shoulder season is the best for this.
 
Right. I mean, if I had enough money to where cost literally was no worry, to where I could throw down a black card or something and get any room that was available and not have to sleep on a park bench, that might be less of a problem.
When I was young we did a cross country trip to california, and booked all our hotels on the day we needed them. Like we'd start driving really early, figure out where the next place we wanted to visit was, and call ahead to book a room. That was a really fun vacation
 
@James "The Wrong Chat" would be a fairly good name for this one if it didn't already have a name.
4
 
 
2 hours later…
5:57 PM
 
6:19 PM
@Gryphon this is not the chat you're looking for
 
Geo
6:50 PM
How do you quantify the effect of weight on agility? I mean, suppose someone were to wear enough armor to double his total weight. What would that do to his ability to dodge? How would one figure out the general relationship between weight and dodging?
How would one estimate at what weight of armor a person would cease to be able to move, and how would a person's performance diminish when approaching that point?
 
7:20 PM
@Geo Interesting. Alot of it is going to depend on the person inside the armor...
if you're trained for it and muscled for it you'll do a lot better than a strong person that just decides to throw on armor.
 
Geo
@James That raises the question of the range of training. How much armor can an untrained person wear versus how much armor can a perfectly trained person wear.
Looking around the internet it seems that 30 kg of armor is a popular figure, and 45 kg of armor is quite heavy for armor. It's not clear if that is a practical limit or not.
 
@Geo Type of armor matters too. Greaves a pauldron and bracers is a whole lot different than leather and both are a lot different than full plate. Type, along with weight, will impact agility and flexibility.
 
Geo
7:35 PM
@James But isn't armor always flexible around the joints where it matters?
 
I kinda feel this question is going to be incredibly subjective and dependant on random genetics as much as training. While training can make a huge difference, and give an advantage to someone who would normally be disadvantaged, biology is still going to play a huge part. Take the example of Secretariat again; Genetics gave it a huge advantage. Training also helped, but compared to another horse given the same training but smaller heart, and there is no contest.
 
@Geo It always has some flexibility but not the same amount. The more flexible the joints the more vulnerable they'd be. Plus the weight of the armour would make a difference to how easily you can move in it.
 
Geo
@AndyD273 Even so, there was a limit to how fast Secretariat could run. As fast as he was, he was still a horse, not a race car. There must be a way to establish the realistic range of human performance in armor.
I'd love to know how much weight a person can carry in terms of armor and equipment, how that load diminishes a person's abilities, and how much that can be improved through training, and how much through genetics. There must be numbers for this.
 
@Geo Sure, and you're talking a guy in armor, not a tank... You're comparing two people in armor, so it's fair to bring up two horses. Secretariat won by 31 lengths, and was still accelerating when he crossed the finish line. It's easy to establish an average range, but when you want to set limits you're going to run into trouble
One possible thing to look at is modern military gear
What's the heaviest load that a soldier is expected to carry on a regular basis
The army has probably spent huge amounts of money to figure out the exact optimal amount
 
Geo
@AndyD273 Unfortunately that won't tell me how much their abilities would be impaired if they were to wear more than the optimal amount.
 
7:48 PM
@Geo It may actually. Impact analysis would be a normal part of military equipment reviews.
@AndyD273 Fully geared up I think it is like 90 lbs
 
@Geo The title of this one looks promising: apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/1060058.pdf
 
UK infantry carried 50kg in Afghnistan when on patrol.
 
Though modern military gear wouldn't have the same impact on joint flexibility as medieval armor.
 
Geo
@AndyD273 Oh yes, that looks perfect!
 
Its usually a flak vest with armor plates in front and back.
 
Geo
@Bellerophon I'd love to know how much the soldiers could have worn if they'd been really pushing themselves.
 
@Geo Another very promising title: The History of the Soldier's Load
 
@Geo Well, 50kg was suggested to possibly be too much for them to be effective. Most military look to have marches with around 30-40kg as part of their training so I'd assume that is about the limit of effectiveness.
 
Geo
@Bellerophon That does line up nicely with the range of figures for armor weight I've been finding of 30 kg to 45 kg.
 
> A century later, the Greek infantry soldier, the Hoplite, was thought to carry a load of between 22.5 and 32 kilograms when dressed in a complete panoply of breastplate, greaves, helmet, shield, spear and sword. For the Hoplites, who them-selves may not have weighed more than 68 kilograms, this equated to a load of between 33–47 per cent of their body weight.
 
Geo
7:59 PM
@AndyD273 Should the performance impact of load be measured as a proportion of the weight of the soldier, or as an absolute figure? It seems like 50 kg is just as heavy no matter how much or how little the soldier's body weighs.
 
> Afer viewing a Canadian Exercise conducted in May 1942, Field Marshal Montgomery, in a letter to General Crerar (a Canadian General), recommended a load that would not have an impact on the soldier’s fighting ability—a maximum 22.5 kilograms.
It also says that the loads carried by US soldiers in WW1 meant they were exhausting themselves crossing no mans land when attacking.
 
@Geo Sure. There might be some people with the genetic advantage that would allow them to do it with less trouble, but 50 kg is should probably be on the upper end of the curve.
 
Geo
@AndyD273 Would that still apply to Olympic champion world-record breaking weight lifters?
 
@Geo It will still apply though their additional constitution and strength could lend them more success.
 
@Geo I'd say genetic lottery plays a big part with them, yeah
 
8:09 PM
They'd do better than the normal soldier perhaps, but it would still not be feasible in the long term.
and more importantly they would still likely be more combat effective with less weight.
 
So you know what a bell curve is, right? You have the big hump in the middle, and the taper out to both sides. Most people are in the middle, and right on the very end of the long tails you have the extremes. Say Mr Glass on one end, and Mr Unbreakable on the other end, with most of us in the middle.
 
Geo
@AndyD273 The trick is figuring out the mean and standard deviation of that curve.
 
Yup
Which is why I figure looking at current and historical data is probably going to be your best bet
 
Geo
And it's not just a simple matter of whether you can carry a particular load or not, but rather there is a whole load of costs and benefits to consider.
I think I'll see if I can formulate this into a coherent question in the question sandbox.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:45 PM
@Green -- they're going alright here. kind of wondering what sorts of things you could get if you melted alumina and poured it into a suitably refractory mold...
 

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