The Factory Floor

12:07 AM

@JasonClyde Speaking as someone with an (admittedly much more mature than average) ten-year-old sister, it's definitely possible to train (at least some) kids to do jobs we wouldn't normally think they could. She's capable of babysitting younger kids, including infants, and she's starting to mow the lawn sometimes (my family lives in the country and have a ton of lawn, so we use the kind of tank-drive, massive, riding lawnmower that municipalities and cities use).

Essentially, you'd have to pick the right kids, but they could definitely operate machinery, as long as you ensure that a high level of physical strength is not required.

You could definitely ask a question along the lines of "Could kids be trained to operate the power grid for a week, given x amount of time to prepare everything". But I suspect the answer would be "yes, although you might have some outages in some regions since kids probably aren't going to be able to repair downed lines".

Jason Clyde

Well that's encouraging. I'm just hoping the training time isn't too huge.

Gryphon - Reinstate Monica

@JasonClyde I mean, historically, 13 for a guy was considered "you are now pretty much a man. Go work for 12 hours a day".

Jason Clyde

Ah yes, Willk said that too.

Green

4:08 AM

@Shalvenay hey!

Shalvenay

@Green how're things going?

Green

@Shalvenay pretty well I think. Learning CAD to design out my next Halloween costume.

Shalvenay

@Green dang XD

Gryphon - Reinstate Monica

@Green Some might call that somewhat excessive.

Green

4:47 AM

@Gryphon-ReinstateMonica perhaps, but when you walk down the street in that costume and people stare, or double-take, it's worth it to me.

Failus Maximus

9:37 AM

hi

Green

12:03 PM

@FailusMaximus hi

Failus Maximus

12:13 PM

I'm really confused about building proper magic world army

for example, I'm thinking about whether wood/bone rhinoceros pushed flametank would be useful or would be waste of resources

Green

@FailusMaximus that will depend on the overall battlefield conditions and opposing forces.

Failus Maximus

I had a phonecall

otherwise I would have supplied

Green

If that tank is easily countered or can't be made effective, then it's a waste.

Failus Maximus

tbh, I am not too sure, because the battlefield situation is already messed by magic

I have overall five types of magic users:
Seers, Mages, Shapers, Warriors and Shifters

Seers are strongest external mages in terms of mana capacity and magic power, but they find it extremely hard to learn any spell. This makes them:

Walking short range (30-50m) flamethrowers.
Very few are able to learn fireball and throw small balls of fire at distances of over 200 m.
These however are rarely their function in military, because they have far better use:
Seers are able to "leave their body" and spy on enemies in 10-15 km radius(that's as far as soul can travel, but their soul perception range is only around 50 m).

Other use for them is operating magic tools, which they're extremely good with.

Mages are weaker than seers in terms of external magic, but they can control it easily and can learn more complex spells. They're flame throwing has even more limited ranger (under 20m) their fireball too (under 100 m), but they can learn more advanced (and more exhausting) spells like fire lance which allows them to match fireball range of a seer. They can usually also learn some basic manipulation of water, wind and earth, although they can't use these offensively.

Mages, have very small role on the battlefield, where, while they're nowhere near as good operators of magic items as seer, …

Shapers are equaly talented in external and internal magic, and thus, suck at both. They're better internal magic users than mages, and better external mages than warriors, but that's not saying much. However, their balance of talent allows them unique skill, Shaping. They're able to shape organic material, and improve its qualities. This however isn't easy skill to learn, and as they consist majority of society, only those who are craftsmen do learn these skills well enough to be able to produce high quality bone and wood weapons, armours, ships or other things where magically treated impr…

Warriors are users of internal magic. They can stregnthen and harden themselves, and they can harden their weapons and armour using the internal magic, making them serve as heavy infantry or heavy cavalry. They're also skilled healers. They should form core of any army.

They are decent archers. They are also used as siege equipment operators, as they can improve efficiency of non-magic siege weapons (ballistae, scorpions, trebuchets) by casting internal magic on it just before it fires.

Finally, Shifters are strongest internal magic users, but they've also completely lost ability to project their powers outwards. They can't

Finally, Shifters are strongest internal magic users, but they've also completely lost ability to project their powers outwards. They can't heal others, but their self-healing is faster than healing of Warrior. They can enhance their strength, speed, and resistance more than warriors, but they can't make their weapons or armor harden and thus rarely fight in front lines, except in primitive tribal societies.

They're great archers, and they also have ability unique to them to learn internal magic of animals, although this is anything but easy. More interestingly, they can partially shift t…

Thus usual army consists of: Spying Seers, Mages to manipulate magic tools(mostly flame throwing weapons), light infantry Shaper conscripts, heavy infantry Warriors and Shifter archers.

Failus Maximus

1:06 PM

as for balance of the combat, Heavy infantry usually resists archers, but they can tire them out, siege weapons outrange archers, but aren't too accurate at those distances and especially shifter archers are often able to dodge their attacks, heavy cavalry stomps both infantry, light and heavy, and archers, but need to be wary of flame throwing magic weapons and mages, as these usually burn through their mana very quickly and then cook them alive.

and mages and magic tools are bombarded by archers from safe distance

Green

@FailusMaximus that rhino tank would be super effective if combined with a magic nullification field. Everyone on the battlefield implicitly relies on their magic to protect them.... If magic suddenly doesn't work anymore, conventional weapons would be really effective.

Failus Maximus

sadly, magic nullification field doesn't exist... there's magic distruption field that completely breaks external magic and somewhat weakens internal magic, but that only forms around extremely fast moving metals

and I'm talking things like bullets

and because of aversion of magic users to metals(in form alloys and pure metals, compounds like oxides etc. are fine), their civilization never really developed metalurgy

well, that's not accurate because unreactive metals(silver, gold) don't actually have that property I mentioned

copper is sometimes used because it causes only slight discomfort in person touching it

and sometimes, militaries do use iron bolt/arrowheads, but because of discomfort of touching or even being in close(less than 5 cm) presence of iron, they're not easy to manufacture and are usually used in very limited numbers

Overall, militaries work somewhat similarly to middle ages, where in field combat heavy cavalry is the number 1, heavy infantry number 2, and the rest of the battlefield has to dance around this fact.

And in sieges, apart from siege weapons used for harassment, it's more about supplies and less about fighting.

Green

How does it work when people walk/live around very high yield iron ore where there's kilo tons of iron in the range of a few meters?

Failus Maximus

Exception for this is of course recently emerged Astriad Empire which has more advanced magic tools, and even aerial force of drake riders, which makes their power far more dangerous than other armies.

Iron ores are compounds

I imagine that this effect requires metalic state of matter (where the metal bonds form electron cloud)

so it does work in pure metals/alloys, but not in compounds

at the same time, this is not the only thing that matters, as low reactivity metals don't have that effect

the effect is extremely short ranged, extending only a few centimetres from the metal

AndyD273

2:03 PM

@JasonClyde The thing with child labor laws, is that while they are laws, they aren't laws of nature, meaning that you can put exceptions into place. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the existing child labor laws have certain exceptions. And now I have googled "child labor law exemptions" and the first, super obvious example is child actors.

Another possible loophole is that the law says "children under 14 can't work for pay"... So don't pay them

It's "vocational training" and a required part of school

And, again, this is for jobs that don't pose a huge physical risk

Jason Clyde

@AndyD273 That is definitely something to think about. I'll try to come up with a way to phrase a question to ask on the subject.

AndyD273

Yup yup. I'm mildly curious if there is a way to ask that which isn't too broad (at least as I understand the question, which is probably wrong). My thinking is that you'll get answers like "it's a law, laws can be changed, and often are."

Jason Clyde

@AndyD273 I guess I should keep in mind the info I'm trying to gather. And there are two big things there: what kinds of roadblocks there would be to enacting such a policy, and how long it would take to be able to train kids to do the job.

AndyD273

2:21 PM

A thing that might help would be something like emergency instructions on a tablet computer. "If error code 1, follow along with this video. If error code 2, then follow this video..." where you have a calm person walking through the steps. combined with job shadowing, and screening for the kids that do well under stress, combined with drills...

Jason Clyde

True.

AndyD273

But checking for mental stability under stress is probably going to be the biggest thing. And while training can help, there are adults that do not have it.

Was talking to a person about the time the place he was working at had a bomb threat called in. He turns to his second in command and is like, "hey, we have a problem, we need to look for a bomb." She is like, "this is a drill, right?" "Nope." And she turned into a quivering puddle of jelly. So he turns to the next person, and they took charge and did what needed to be done.

Thankfully it was a hoax by a disgruntled ex employee, and not real

Green

@AndyD273 and there's no way to predict who's going to be the jelly or the steely minded. I've heard similar stories in combat situations.

AndyD273

Exactly

The only way to find out is to go through it

But there are probably ways to test for it

Gryphon - Reinstate Monica

2:41 PM

@JasonClyde Additionally, if you're going to write about kids like this, I'd recommend seeing if you can interact with some actual kids in the appropriate age range. 12-13 is a very interesting age, and there's a huge range of maturity levels in various areas.

Jason Clyde

Yeah.

AndyD273

Especially in kids that grew up having responsibility and chores, vs the ones who had bulldozer parents. Farm kids for instance, where if you don't get up hours early and go out in the snow to feed the animals, they'll starve. Maybe find a way to talk to kids at a 4H club without getting the parents mad :)

I lived in town, but in a very rural area, so most of my friends growing up were farm kids, and they knew how to work at a really young age.

Ranger

Gooooood morning.

Everyone causing trouble, I hope?

Gryphon - Reinstate Monica

@AndyD273 Yeah, farm kids almost always grow up really responsible (and often also really buff).

Ranger

@Gryphon-ReinstateMonica EHHHHHHH

Gryphon - Reinstate Monica

2:56 PM

@Ranger Is that disagreement? I'm not sure what it's supposed to be.

Ranger

I'll buy "typically hard workers" but I feel like "almost always [...] responsible" is a stretch.

Like if they set to a task they're great about putting work into it, but... in my experience they're more likely to be rambunctious, reckless, and not-quite-as-responsible.

AFK for meeting

Gryphon - Reinstate Monica

@Ranger I mean, there was an "almost" in there. And working with heavy machinery and/or animals does have a tendency to result in either responsibility or severe injuries. I'll admit that when "off the job", farm kids can definitely be more rambunctions, when they need to be, they're typically very responsible.

That might be what you meant by "if they set to a task they're great about putting work into it". But, if your goal is to get an important job done using only kids, farm kids are probably going to be the best choice.

AndyD273

3:29 PM

One of my best friends had a running competition with his siblings of "who can hold the metal coat hanger on the horse fence the longest?"

Gryphon - Reinstate Monica

@AndyD273 Sounds like a fun contest.

AndyD273

It's a game I didn't do very good at the one time I tried

Gryphon - Reinstate Monica

If I recall correctly, a couple of people I knew from high school had a similar competition, but it involved replacing the coat hanger with a stream of yellow liquid. Which makes me wince just thinking about it.

AndyD273

Yeah, Not sure if my friends just naturally had better judgement than that, or if it was because 3 of his 5 siblings were girls.

Hosch250

7:14 PM

@AndyD273 Report has it you can barely feel it, and the display is just for dramatics.

I didn't grow up with an electric fence, so I wouldn't know for sure.

AndyD273

7:33 PM

@Hosch250 Well, I did touch my friends fence, and I wouldn't say "you can barely feel it". It definitely tingles a bit. Not exactly painful, but I didn't want to do it again.

Hosch250

That's basically what I heard.

Just don't touch two of the wires at the same time. That's when it gets bad.

AndyD273

Kinda like an licking a 9 volt, except extra strong, and all the way up your arm

Hosch250

7:53 PM

I'm down to just a few hundred over 5400 seconds left before I can go home...

I've read 3 chapters in an Azure book, 2 re-reading C# In Depth prepping for a certification exam work wants me to get, and read some F# documentation and figured some new stuff out today.

Done lots and lots of chatting.

Back on the electricity stories, my younger sister stuck her finger in a lightbulb socket once and got "bit."

She went and complained to one of my older sisters, who promptly went and stuck her finger in too (neither of them were ever very bright).

And she stuck a roll-up measuring tape with a metal tip into a wall socket once, and sent a spark flying about 30' across the room.

AndyD273

@Hosch250 Maybe they were hoping the light socket would up their wattage?

Hosch250

Maybe they thought they'd glow and attract guys like bugs are attracted to light.

Who knows what they were thinking.

James

10:06 PM

I think I have said this at least once before...people are freaking weird.

Ranger

@James Example of the day?

James

@Ranger Oh...I didn't expect a pop-quiz

A dude on my team got us free cake because he has been here 25 years. I can't even comprehend working in one place for 25 years...

Ranger

10:30 PM

We had a guy retire having worked 50 years here.

Started in high school

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