The Factory Floor

Aify

5:07 AM

He's back at it again with another alt worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/users/52158/mindx @James

Worldbuilding Meta

9:39 AM

-2

Q: Is there something wrong happening to my question?

Please,This is not right. How do i make skeletons formidable hand to hand fighters?

HDE 226868

1:58 PM

Happy timezone, humans.

dot_Sp0T

Happy timezone, number 6.

FoxElemental

3:08 PM

@HDE226868 Gasp! "Humans"! I always suspected!

FoxElemental

3:20 PM

Oh

By the way

to anyone listening

What can be done to switch a question from too storybased/plot based to worldbuilding?

I've looked on meta and there's not much about it

James

@Aify Gracias

FoxElemental

oh. Vaporizing accounts?

Or making a list?

Hello, @Ajnatorix

Ajnatorix Zersolar

hey @FoxElemental

James

@FoxElemental Sorta related: worldbuilding.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/3300/…

FoxElemental

@James seen it. Still worried. It's about what fire elementals could do to slow global warming/help the environment. Still about a group's actions

James

3:28 PM

Also this and this

16

Q: Risk Factor Definition: Too Story Based

We're going to look at merging the "Too Individual" and "Too plot based" close reasons into "Too Story Based". Keeping in mind the discussions from Risk Factor definition: Too Individual/Character Based and Are Too Character Based and Too Plot Based the same? here is the proposed close reason. C...

discussion on-topic

7

Q: Risk Factor definition: Too Individual/Character Based

As the Risk Factor identified as most important by this post I'm starting a discussion on Too Individual/Character Based. Please start answers to this question discussing each of the examples, adding more examples, and discussing just where to draw the line. Once we've reached a consensus and up...

discussion on-topic

FoxElemental

Good points

I'll have to think how I can rephrase it, though

James

How to Fix:

Rephrase the question to remove all references to an individual and any "should" or "would" parts of the questions. "Would Joe Marine 17 climb this hill wearing his backpack" is off topic. "Could a well trained marine wearing a 30kg weight backpack complete a 1 mile route with 500' of ascent in 10 minutes" is on topic.

Only the person who is writing a character can decide how that character will act in a given situation. Worldbuilding can determine what is possible for that character to do, but the choices that the character makes given those possibilities is down to that indi…

FoxElemental

@James Right. In this case it's "what could blank organization/group of characterless individuals do to blank to achieve blank"

Aify

4:20 PM

@FoxElemental That'd be POB/TB/TSB depending on the constraints

You're probably better off asking a reality-check where you've already decided what the individuals/group are doing

Then asking something along the scenario of "is the plan possible"

FoxElemental

5:06 PM

@Aify but the entire question is based on the fact that I have no idea, and it's too broad as it is. That's why I put it in the Sandbox: so I could come up with (currently 15) major constraints and explain what they can do. I don't think it's POB anymore (I'll add specifications to make sure of that) . . . still slightly too broad(which I'm fixing) . . .but I can't shake the feeling that it's going to be put on hold.

FoxElemental

5:26 PM

@Dubukay hello

Dubukay

@FoxElemental heyo!

FoxElemental

See above conversation^

Dubukay

Yeah, catching up right now

FoxElemental

I have the edit tab open for instant changes

I could create a new room to talk about this? If you want

AngelPray

@Dubukay Do your fire elementals have a particular set of skills?

Abilities?

FoxElemental

5:28 PM

Actually it's my draft

Dubukay

I agree with Aify and James on this one. The best thing to do would be to pick a possible scenario and check whether or not that's feasible. For example, you might want to ask something along the lines of "If there existed a fire elemental capable of transporting x amount of energy at y speed, could they use this heat transfer capability to send huge amounts of heat to the north pole as a way to slow global warming?"

AngelPray

If so you could phrase your question as "using these means, how could global warming be averted/reduced?"

FoxElemental

@Dubukay I don't see how that would slow warming

@AngelPray Good idea, hold on

Dubukay

Yeah, I don't think it would either lol I just needed to come up with a quick example for a non-story-based question

FoxElemental

Changed to :"Using these fire elementals, how could global warming be averted/slowed?"

AngelPray

5:32 PM

Well, see that's the issue.

FoxElemental

and it's a little less POB/TB because of further constraints

AngelPray

It doesn't have to have anything to do with fire elementals.

FoxElemental

@AngelPray But it's not a group of individuals anymore

AngelPray

What I'm saying is you could simply list the abilities that your fire elementals have (not even needing to mention that the abilities are possessed by elementals at all) and ask how global warming could be reduced with those powers.

FoxElemental

But some of the abilities aren't "human," not remotely.

AngelPray

5:34 PM

Irrelevant.

FoxElemental

So, "How could fire powers" is better?

AngelPray

You don't even need to mention whether the entities that have those powers are human or not.

FoxElemental

Got it. major edit coming through

AngelPray

Sure, that seems better, as long as you precisely define what fire powers are available exactly.

If you just write fire powers generally then it becomes opinion based.

FoxElemental

Oh, I'm specifying

So I just say "these being with the powers"?

AngelPray

5:36 PM

You can mention that they're fire elementals if you like, but it shouldn't matter.

Dubukay

I would keep them as fire elementals

AngelPray

If you can replace all mentions of fire elementals with "magical humans" or "entities" or "beings" then it won't be story based in my opinion.

But I do mean that hypothetically as a test.

FoxElemental

Okay. Just edited. Take a look again? Elementals are mentioned once but the rest is "beings"

AngelPray

I don't mean you have you replace all mentions of elementals.

Dubukay

It acknowledges the fact that there's magic present and gives you some leeway with their powers

@AngelPray ...that shouldn't make it more or less story-based

It shouldn't matter what the characters are, but rather asking about what they're doing rather than what they can do that makes it story based

AngelPray

5:38 PM

To reassure you though, this comes from the help page and is cited as an example of an acceptable topic: "How to achieve a specified effect in a defined world, including by the use of biology, technology or magic, while maintaining in-universe consistency"

FoxElemental

@AngelPray I'll cite that if it's put on hold

Thank you for the reference

How's that look now?

Dubukay

Sadly, I don't see how that's less story based than before. It's still asking about what the characters within the story should do

AngelPray

Seems good.

@Dubukay What part of the question specifically?

@Dubukay It's not asking what the characters "should do".

They already know what they want to do.

They want to slow global warming.

Dubukay

@AngelPray Yeah, I'm seeing that now

AngelPray

It's asking "how they should do it".

Dubukay

5:44 PM

I'm a little wary but I can't point to anything in particular

FoxElemental

I was still planning on asking for more help soon

Wasn't going to post for another week

I have to go but brb. Feel free to still leave comments here

Thank you for your help!

Dubukay

Yeah, I'd still wait a little bit before posting that one. Other people may have different ideas

Other thoughts about things that need to change in the question:

1. I'd skip the Trump line, as much as I appreciate it. It'll probably rub some people the wrong way

2. These things are insanely powerful. 1 petawatt/sec is 5-20 times the energy release rate of a hurricane.

AngelPray

I don't think there's any prohibition against making cheeky political jabs...

Journeyman Geek

actually...

AngelPray

Oh, I'm going to be corrected, aren't I.

Journeyman Geek

5:48 PM

Its more for chat but

361

Q: If you're gonna talk Politics, you must respect those who disagree

This is sort of a follow-up to two past discussions: Toward a philosophy of Chat Does the Be Nice policy require SE users to "be nice" to people who are not SE users (e.g. public figures)? Over the past year, there's been an uptick in discussions of politics in chat. JUST LOOK AT THIS CHART! ...

discussion chat etiquette

Dubukay

3. I think we still need some more limitations on these guys. Can they fly to the moon, and dump heat there? It'd only take them ~ a month and that'd be a great heat sink. If not that, then perhaps simply venting heat into outer space? The total energy received by the earth from the sun is ~174 PW, so all the fire elementals working together could balance that out

Aify

@FoxElemental The only way your question is going to work is if you pick a scenario

and ask if it's feasible (basically reality check it)

Otherwise I guarantee it's POB/TB

Dubukay

yeah, we haven't even been considering the too-broad problem. I think that's what i've been trying to highlight with my nitpicking about powers and flying to the moon and smiting politicians. I'm just not sure that a fully-developed theory of fire elementals can be developed coherently enough to guarantee that answers will be relevant/on-topic, which is why the specific recommendation for a scenario-style reality-check is something Aify and I have been arguing for.

Aify

@FoxElemental As a recommendation, you should always ask yourself "Why am I asking this question" before actually asking the question

If the reason is "I'm stuck in my story writing and need new ideas" - then your question is almost 100% going to be POB AND TB

Alternatively, if you're thinking, "I have this idea, it's all fleshed out, does this make sense? Is it possible?" then you're on the right track, and WB can probably help you

Granted, you still have to make the actual question not story based, but at least now it's not TB and POB

By setting a specific scenario properly, you eliminate the possibility of it becoming too broad. By asking a reality check, you're asking people to poke possible holes in your premise (which can only have 3 outcomes; yes, it will work, no, it won't, or maybe, we need more information; the third case means the question is unclear (close reason alert) and requires more information)

Feeds 4026

6:25 PM

1

A: Sandbox for Proposed Questions

All I need is a earth and giant earth(2*earth) ,each have 5 suns in sky and the earth want to have 2 moons. In between these planets a mystery planet like diamond planet is needed. The earth need to be much similar to our earth, and giant earth need to be little hotter than our earth. And both in...

FoxElemental

7:10 PM

@Aify @AngelPray @Dubukay Thank you all for your feedback, opinions, and explanations. I'm going to work for the next week on that draft until I feel comfortable that it meets most of the above points and is less POB/TB/TSB.

@Dubukay I'll remove the joke. I don't want to upset people when I'm just looking for a solution to this

I can't bring myself to make it a reality-check, but I have some ideas how to make it less idea-gen/broad/POB. I'm going to do revisions on my own and do some thinking about potential solutions that I don't want, so I can modify restrictions.

AndyD273

8:36 PM

@Aify If every question has to have an answer before it can be asked, (essentially reality check) what use is this site? Looking for holes in existing ideas is good and useful, but severely limited. Forget how useful it is in getting answers, it's not much fun for giving answers either. A good reality check question should be answerable with Yes or No. That's boring. And no SE site works like that. I'm not sure why you should expect WB to work that way.

Aify

8:58 PM

Nowhere did I ever say that EVERY question has to have an answer before it's asked @AndyD273

I simply noted that Fox's question would be easily fixed by making it a reality check, and that most bad questions that are similar to what Fox had down followed the "i'm stuck in story writing and need new ideas" path.

Also note that I didn't say that "I have this idea, it's all fleshed out, does this make sense? Is it possible?" is the ONLY plausible path for a WB question. I simply noted that it was ONE possible path.

AndyD273

I was mostly responding to the "then you're on the right track, and WB can probably help you" part, which (to me) implies that other types aren't a good fit. And you do seem to have a track record of VTC questions that aren't so narrow that only a single (obvious) answer will work.

2

Aify

I have a VTC track record of so many questions you could probably make that generalization about every single question type LOL

AndyD273

The real threat to WB is not "broad" questions, or even "homework" questions (how do you have world building homework?), but Help Vampires. People who drive by with dozens of questions but never follow through with accepting answers or upvoting, only to disappear when the sun rises.

Aify

Help vampires often ask homework questions

Hang on, i'm sure ive linked a HW question before

AndyD273

I saw your example from a week ago.

Journeyman Geek

9:13 PM

@AndyD273 though...

AndyD273

Wasn't convinced it was homework

Aify

Ah, it was tagged with you

Journeyman Geek

the flavour of HV on worldbuilding is likely to be very different from elsewhere

Aify

That could easily be physics Homework

AndyD273

Or it could be legit worldbuilding.

Aify

9:14 PM

I'm not even sure "homework" exists in "worldbuilding" as "worldbuilding" probably isn't a course taught anywhere

Where's the worldbuilding context?

AndyD273

Creative writing maybe?

I gotta go pick up the children. BBL

Aify

Creative writing would require you to calculate the length of a planet's solar year?

lol

For those who don't know which question we're discussing, it's this one worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/112738/…

AndyD273

No, but if your creative writing required you to write a story with planets, then it might be a good thing to include. Except then it is legit worldbuilding

even if it is for a class

Aify

Except you would just make it up

Instead of calculating it

What kind of Creative Writing teacher checks the math on a planet's orbit in a story?

If we allow stuff like that to get through, we will defacto become the dumping ground for every other question on every other SE site

Basically every question can be justified with the words "It's for creative writing/a story/worldbuilding"

Journeyman Geek

@Aify on the other hand, you might scope the site out of questions.

Aify

9:18 PM

@JourneymanGeek We've never had an issue with lack of questions

Journeyman Geek

The 'problem' with world building and a few other sites is... the broad scope is kinda why they're useful

Aify

Let's agree to disagree.

Journeyman Geek

That's fine

I spend most of my time in more 'traditional' stacks

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