The Factory Floor - 2018-03-22

« first day (1282 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (2220 days later) »

5:53 AM

@AndyD273 And don't forget D.C. which is its own thing but behaves like a territory in many ways.

@dot_Sp0T If you're writing a form to take a state code, you need to program 52 of them. DC is the 51st and everyone gets Kentucky wrong so accept it both ways.

@Secret I had a fragment of a dream worth keeping for story ideas. I'm going to pass it along to a comedy playwright tomorrow.

Which reminds me: http://pegasustheatre.org/
This is funny.

user image

6:14 AM

Good luck on that. I am not in USA thus I obviously cannot attend

2 hours later…

8:15 AM

@JDługosz harsh reality

@dot_Sp0T What are you up to?

@Secret Here's a report I blogged from a previous show: dlugosz.com/zeta/?p=341

@JDługosz not much, spending the birthday at home trying to figure what sort of cake to bake

@dot_Sp0T making your own cake?

What are the candidates?

@JDługosz so far none :)

@dot_Sp0T I always get pineapple upside down cake, since it's now the only time I ever have it.

When I make cake from scratch, I go with butter cakes, whether white, yellow, or chocolate. Once I made a spherical cake and decorated it as a bowling ball.

8:29 AM

@dot_Sp0T Happy Birthday!

Well, here's a basketball, in progress:

user image

Ah! found my “fire hazard” cake.

user image

2 hours later…

10:59 AM

@Secespitus many thanks :)

@JDługosz I don't even know what that is :D

3 hours later…

2:18 PM

@Shalvenay Hey-yeah! Hey-yeah! Oh! Oh!

2 hours later…

4:00 PM

@dot_Sp0T Happy birthday.

4:11 PM

@JDługosz How does anyone get Kentucky wrong? What do they confuse it with? Also, wouldn't it be just better to have a pre-populated dropdown with all the options so that you don't have to worry about non standard choices?

4:28 PM

@AndyD273 KY instead of KT. Dropdowns are more modern, but still suffer from the “missed something” problem, or becoming out of date. Now-a-days, address forms ask for country first, then taylor the rest of the form. And a web app can be updated immediatly when something changes somewhere in the world; an installed app user might be frustrated at not being able to enter something.

ajnatorix zersolar

could you not use the "other" text box?

@JDługosz Do you mean KT instead of KY? As a person who deals with databases a lot, I have to say that letting users type their own answers for a state is a huge pain. Sometimes you get MI, sometimes you get MICH, sometimes you get Michigan, and all variations of capitalization, and I'd rather push out an update on the slight chance that Guam ever decides to become a state than than go through that anarchy again. It took way to long to clean up and standardize the last time.

If it's just a web form that arrives as an email then it's a completely different story.

ajnatorix zersolar

sounds like hell

@ajnatorixzersolar It's just more trouble than it's worth for as rare as those kinds of changes happen. Especially since our customers are USA or Canada, and so I really don't have to worry all that much about new states/territories just appearing and disappearing all over the place without warning.

2 hours later…

6:22 PM

Quick message. The Wordlbuilding collaborative story room is re-open so if people could start contributing to that again or if anyone wants to join who wasn't involved before then please feel free to go to https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/70113/story-go-round
Rules an some background in the story so far is available at:
https://worldbuilding.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5678/story-go-round-background-info

4

1 hour later…

7:30 PM

@Green @AndyD273 So what do you guys want to talk about next time?

@James I'm thinking that after the magic discussion that exploring the role of deities big and small might be useful.

and considering we've touched slightly on religion with the Lynx people it makes sense on that front too

8:08 PM

Invention of a few deities should be fun. We already have some really interesting ways of instantiating them via the magic system.

Also, we need to close the loop on what celestial event the Lynx people use to time their annual gathering.

8:47 PM

@Green You'll have to tell me if the top voted answer on that question made sense.

9:08 PM

@James Yeah, Kingledion's answer is good. We can roll with that.

9:41 PM

@Green Coo.

10:03 PM

I have a question: I'm trying to figure out where to put the capital of the United Terran Federation.

These are my choices:

New York City

That's only one option.

London, England
Geneva, Switzerland
Paris, France
Washington, D.C., USA
Sydney, Australia
Moscow, Russia
St. Petersburg, Russia
Abu Dhabi, UAE
Jerusalem, Israel
San Francisco, USA

Sorry I hit the enter key before I finished typing out the list. My bad.

No problem.

I would say not New York or Jerusalem.

Why is that?

I mean New York is pretty much a city that is the literal definition of melting pot.

Jerusalem, has historical significance.

But I'm curious to why I shouldn't pick one of those two.

New York isn't a political city but it is a city that suggests the USA is in charge. San Francisco doesn't have the same connotations of the USA trying to control things, at least it wouldn't to the people I know.

10:11 PM

I see. I never thought about that in terms of NYC.

Jerusalem is just too risky. I mean look at the controversy over moving an embassy there. Putting an international organisation there means you have to recognise it as Israeli or Palestinian which is not a good idea.

@SCPilot Capitals are rarely chosen this way. Sometimes, it's the largest city. Sometimes, it's some small rando spot where leadership happened to be when they needed to do something and setup shop. They didn't have to move anywhere else so they stayed. Office space was acquired and the aparatus of government accreted around the new spot.

I probably wouldn't put it in Russia because the USA, the UK and possibly other places wouldn't want Russia to have that kind of power.

Washington D.C. was chosen because Philadelphia was threatened by the British.

From your list I would chose Paris or Sydney. Another possibility would be Geneva.

10:14 PM

I also thought that NYC would be a good choice what with the UN Building being there, but now that you mention it, it could suggest that the USA is in charge. I never saw it representing as the USA trying to control things.

And you're right about Jerusalem. Forgot about that. I've been trying to tune out the news lately that I forgot about that.

@Green I see.

@Bellerophon that's true. So that leaves out Moscow and St. Petersburg. Washington, D.C. would be out too.

You'd never be able to build anything in Jerusalem. Freak, they can't even move ladders that workmen leave behind.

Ouch. I never knew about that @Green.

Immovable Ladder

The Immovable Ladder (Hebrew: סולם הסטטוס קוו‎, lit. "The status quo ladder") ([1]Arabic: السُّلَّم الثَّابِت‎, lit. "The stationary ladder") is a wooden ladder located above the facade, under the window of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in the Old City of Jerusalem. Made of cedar wood, possibly from Lebanon, it was first mentioned in 1757 and has remained in that location since the 18th century, aside from being temporarily moved on two occasions. The ladder is referred to as "immovable" due to an understanding that no cleric of the six ecumenical Christian orders may move, rearrange, or alter...

hey there @Green and @SCPilot

@Shalvenay hey!

10:16 PM

...although, wouldn't even Jerusalem have suburbs? :P

@SCPilot don't pick a major city at all. THere's too much baggage related to doing that.

Well, Paris, Sydney are good ideas.

And hi @Shalvenay!

Just trying to figure out where to put the capital of the UTF in my scifi setting.

Wait...@Green where would I need to put it then? A space station?

A small town then?

Put it in Saint John, New Brunswick.

It's small but not tiny. It's in Canada. It's a decent flight from most anywhere in Europe and the west.

South America, Africa and Asia won't like it but no where in North America or Europe is going to be convenient for them.

Hm......I see that sounds reasonable.

There's poo tons of space to build up as much office space and airport runways as you need.

10:20 PM

@Green I suspect you could pick pretty much any minor city in most countries and make a equally good case

google.com/maps/place/New+Brunswick,+Canada/…

Good point.

The airport is surrounded by a whole lot of nothing. Building new runways would be cake.

That's another good point.

@Bellerophon Agreed. I just think Saint John is a bit farcical and therefore funny.

10:22 PM

lol! that could be work too.

You build the big fancy buildings after power is consolidated, not before. Before, everyone is too busy actually working to plan out the finest and greatest layout for the new HQ building.

the big issue with St. John is the airport, but not for the reasons you'd think

NATO used to run out of a shake (well, improvised buildings) till the USSR fell, then they moved into huge specialized buildings.

@Shalvenay how come?

you'd need extreme all weather ops capability from operators flying into there in order to maintain 365-days-a-year ops

or I might be mixing my Canadian cities up

@Shalvenay And that kind of operational capability is a matter of money and political will. If the powers that be declare it to be Saint John, the world will move to make that so.

The weather is often very bad there, no question.

10:24 PM

@Green yeah, there are some technological limits as well -- we aren't quite to the point where 0-0 (0 ceiling, 0 vis) Part 121 ops are possible (can't taxi in 0-0 conditions!)

@Shalvenay another good point.

Eastern Canada is just bad weather most of the time anyway, so's most of the northern atlantic. Did stop the Allies from operating out of Keflavic Iceland or Thorshaven Faroe Islands.

Didn't stop*

yeah, military ops aren't as constrained as civil air transport though

especially during a live shooting war

That's true.

What about LA? It’s big, well talked about and seen as a to-go place. Also, what about the Liverpool? Now that I think about it using the capital of a nation might not be a good idea, so Paris and London would be out. Although why did you pick Paris and Sydney @Bellerophon? just curious here.

the LA basin itself is kinda full up :P and the air traffic situation down there is a nightmare

@Shalvenay Yeah, don't do LA.

10:27 PM

you'd have to redirect the extra air traffic into Palmdale or Victorville

Don't do anything in the US actually.

well, there are places in the US that could pull it off pretty well, but as you insinuated, they're midsized cities all the same

France has hosted a decent amount of tricky international negotiations and is also probably the most neutral cold war nuclear power.

So, anything US is out. And I didn't realize that the air traffic in LA was that bad.

Sydney was because I can't think of any country of the top of my head who particularly dislike Australia. That said it is quite a way from a lot of countries.

10:30 PM

@Bellerophon I'm sure there are some regional rivalries, even for Australia.

@Green Really?

@SCPilot Local power politics always makes enemies. Always.

Japan, Korea and China have been at each other's throats for centuries, if not millenia.

Hm.....Yeah Australia is a bit out of the way for a lot of countries.

That's true. And I also considered Tokyo and maybe Hong Kong.

@Green Absolutely but I doubt that Australia is disliked as much as most powerful countries.

If you're trying to serve the most people with the shortest flights, then it has to be in India or China....or somewhere around there.

@Bellerophon Sure, but they're also not one of the super powerful countries either.

It's not the same kind of power class. You only make enemies with competitors.

10:32 PM

@Green True. Is that a negative though?

I mean, I'd rank them on a similar level to Canada. Both have strong relations with powerful countries.

@Bellerophon No, but dumping the new world capital on them will certainly raise the envy of many other nations that didn't get picked.

Having the global capital would be a huge status bump. They may not be the most powerful nation now, but that lower status may not last long.

Depending on how the capital works out, it could be the center for trade, finance and a number of other things.

Right, but you'll get that with any country.

Hm....I had originally had the idea where the capital of Earth would be voted on, but that idea was tossed out due to the fact that everyone would want to vote for their city. The requirement was it couldn't be the capital of a nation, but I removed that out since I thought having Paris as the capital of Earth would be neat. But still, I'm right back where I started with the immediate problem.

@SCPilot This is back to the planned vs emergent. If you plan it, then the powers will angle to have the new capital to establish their national prestige as much as possible. Maybe aliens nuked the capitals, so you have to setup shop in Novosibirsk, Russia.

Since the story takes place in the early 22nd century, I think having a permanent capital city would be good. I almost picked Detroit or Chicago, but then I remembered that Detroit had gone bankrupt and Chicago has such a high crime rate. :(

@Green Hm...Interesting point

10:39 PM

@SCPilot There's a lot of innovation that happens in 100 years. We went from ships to spaceships that land themselves.

If you look at historic big things then countries rarely vote for themselves. They usually vote for whoever bribed them the most or to stop someone else getting it.

steam ship to spaceships.

you may not even need a global capital

Build a megaship that sails the 7 seas to move where it's needed.

Also, what about Shanghai or Tokyo?

@Bellerophon I never thought about that.

Well, still, if you look at it, weather conditions also make it hard to launch spaceships. If you look at where a lot of the launch centers are, they're near the Equator since that's the best place to launch rockets, as....Okay, I forgot why it's better to launch rockets near the equator, but it has to do something with the planet's rotation.

Wait, build two. One for the Pacific, one for the atlantic.

One could be the UTF's military HQ, and the other the political HQ.

10:42 PM

You launch from near the equator because the earth's rotation gives you a free boost into orbit.

That's it!

Thank you @Green!

@SCPilot These two things don't usually get seperated in modern nation-state because the state is supposed to be the one with the monopoly on violence. You'll want as little lag as possible between those that order the shooting and those that do the shooting.

Hold up....I just thought of something: since the UN Building is located in NYC, wouldn't it make more sense to put the political capital of Earth there? Just wondering that's all. Don't get me wrong, I understand what y'all said earlier that I would want to avoid cities like New York.

I see.

@SCPilot Depends. Is this a successor to the UN or does it replace a failed UN?

@SCPilot You can if you want. Depends on how you want the story to develop.

10:47 PM

Successor to the UN actually, although many people think that the UN sort of failed in certain areas, but succeeded in others. The first one was the United Terran Nations after Earth began colonizing the Sol System (almost called our solar system the Helios System but still debating on that one). And later the UTF after the first extrasolar colony was set up.

But after awhile, I started looking at where other scifi stories had their capital of Earth.

Just to give me some ideas.

Oh and the story involves a Martian rebellion. Apparently, shoving environmental protection laws down the throats of Martian miners is not a very good idea.

@SCPilot Another option is to not put the capital on Earth at all. The gravity well is kind of a pain to get in and out of. Put in on the moon or something.

Hm.......I see. I do remember in the old Exosquad cartoon, the capital of the Earth System was located on a space station.

Oh a funny story about my setting: after a colony on Pluto was set up, the Pluties (still working on what to call a colonist of Pluto) demanded that Pluto be given back its planet status or else! Pluto was originally a penal colony and well, you don't want the criminals to start making trouble do you?

@SCPilot There's a long tradition of penal colonies turning out just fine.

Oh that's true. Australia is at the top of the list. :)

@SCPilot Yep. I'm off for a bit. Have fun worldbuildling!

10:55 PM

Thank you for your help and suggestions @Green!

Hm.....Well, I don't think most Martian colonists would be too worry about environmental protection laws like people on Earth would be.

@FutureHistorian yes, USA rejoined the Paris Climate Change Deal in 2095 and UK rejoined the EU in 2098.

11:18 PM

BTW, anyone here ever watched the Red Planet animated adaption that appeared on Fox?

Besides me.

« first day (1282 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (2220 days later) »

Transcript for

Mar '1822

The Factory Floor

Main chat room for worldbuilding.stackexchange.com

bad-puns balloon-whales bewildered-gods glarnak reasoned-discussion

join this room
about this room

00:00

06:00

12:00

18:00

all times are UTC

site design / logo © 2024 Stack Exchange Inc; legal

mobile