The Factory Floor

4:09 AM

Last night dream:

attending a magic class, where the teacher talks about and demonstrated how the idea of magic is it rearrange the constituent atoms of matter at the resolution of classical elements thus the atomic makeup of each element is

unimportant (shown in a wooden place 4 of the basic elements orbit and fuse with each other as if they are wisp. The yellow element is not light nor lightning, but I forgot the details). He then demonstrate the use of the fire element as a metal being imbued with it is orange hot yet it remains solid in shape.

(I am on mobile, cannot show the picture)

dot_Sp0T

8:43 AM

Anyone willing to lend a hand? worldbuilding.meta.stackexchange.com/a/5931/2746 > I still need some good ideas for a better title :)

JDługosz

@Secret Interesting. Going to work it up as a piece of creative writing to share?

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T Willing, but not creative enough.

"Switcheroo" is the only term I know that would be appropriate for your situation.

At least I think it would be appropriate, but I am not sure...

JDługosz

9:16 AM

@Secespitus I like to surf the thesaurus when looking for a word.

@Secespitus Might look up specific terminology for railroads?

In a rare change, I jumped in on comments in a YouTube video. See youtu.be/EEpw2-D3KaI maybe thumb-up my criticism so it floats above the stupid "Try Electric Universe" remarks.

Secespitus

@JDługosz I can't access YouTube right now. I'll check it out later.

@JDługosz The problem is coming up with a name that is at the same time useful, makes users want to read more, accurate and at best in some way funny - all in a language that is not my native tongue. While I could definitely work around the first one, the second one becomes more of a problem, my lack of knowledge about trains makes the third one difficult and the fourth one...

May 12 '17 at 21:11, by Secespitus

@NexTerren "How many Germans does it take to change a light bulb?" "One. We are efficient and don't have humour."

JDługosz

10:22 AM

@Secespitus The problem is that the current title doesn't mean anything to me. Trains: you'd have to surf the web and find out. I assumed it was a made-up word, but after your last comment, I searched for it and found one place that gave a definition when hyphenated. scatterbrained is a better choice, being common and listed in normal dictionaries.

So from there, thesaurus.com/browse/scatterbrained will offer some brainstorming.

I had no luck finding a meaning for Spoorcaneers though.

Feeds

12:31 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Questions

When asking questions, I struggle with blind spots - every time I post, despite my best intentions, I always have to edit the question with some obvious and necessary information that I've somehow forgotten to include (example: forgetting to include a scale on Is an offset mountain range plausibl...

AndyD273

2:08 PM

Found an interesting (parody) article from Elon Musk about living on Mars: medium.com/@boredelonmusk/life-on-mars-3d985e6fc0f0

@dot_Sp0T a pirate train generally sounds like a bad idea. If they know you are coming they can block the track in front of you, wait for you to pass, block the track behind you, and you're stuck. It also wouldn't be hard to set up gun towers periodically along the track where the big, rich trains travel and pick off anyone that they don't think belongs.

Tracks are just too limiting, and you can't just jump off. It's the same reason you never take the freeway in the Matrix.

It could be even easier than that. Set up switching station periodically with a short spur that just ends. The tracks are set up to direct to the dead end, unless you radio ahead with the correct password. Then the heavily armed guard tower switches to the real track long enough for you to go past, and then switches back to the dead end. Any pirate that tries to run the blockade and get past the guard tower will just go down the spur and off the end of the track, possibly into a gully.

There is also the problem that if they use trains, they have to have rails leading into their super secret hideout, which could be a bit of a problem.

It would be much much smarter for pirates to have overland transportation so they could wait at a steep grade or block the track, swoop in, high jack the load, and escape overland again.

@JDługosz sure

Green

2:41 PM

@AndyD273 The John Wayne movie, Rio Lobo, is an excellent example of this kind of hijacking.

AndyD273

@Green Right, that's basically what I was thinking of. I mean train robbers were a real life thing, so it's likely that they would work the same way.

Green

@AndyD273 And that works till the pirates figure out how to just skip over the switch and go on the track they want.

AndyD273

@Green But you are on a rail. Trains don't jump very well. They would have to have someone there on the ground to flip the switch at the right time

Journeyman Geek

They jump fine, they suck at landing.

2

also

Road–rail vehicle

A road–rail vehicle is a vehicle which can operate both on rail tracks and a conventional road. They are also called hi-rail, from highway and rail, or variations such as high-rail, HiRail, Hy-rail, etc. They are often converted road vehicles, keeping their normal wheels with rubber tires, but fitted with additional flanged steel wheels for running on rails. Propulsion is typically through the conventional tires, the flanged wheels being free-rolling; the rail wheels are raised and lowered as needed. Purpose-built road–rail vehicles also exist. == Overview == Such vehicles are normally used for...

Green

@AndyD273 Oh, I don't know. A sufficiently motivated party could invent a train that can bypass the switch and do their own thing. We just haven't needed such a train because it's not worth that degree of specialization

@JourneymanGeek Bingo!

T

AndyD273

2:50 PM

@JourneymanGeek But if you are going to have that, then you might as well just have these and skip the whole rail thing

Dune buggy

A dune buggy or beach buggy is a recreational motor vehicle with large wheels, and wide tires, designed for use on sand dunes, beaches, or desert recreation. It is called a "Beach Buggy" in the United Kingdom, Ireland and many other English speaking countries. The design is usually a modified vehicle and engine mounted on an open chassis. The modifications usually attempt to increase the power-to-weight ratio by either lightening the vehicle or increasing engine power or both. Dune buggies designed specifically for operation on open sand are called sandrails. A similar, more recent generation of...

Journeyman Geek

@AndyD273 unless you could steal power off a third rail

AndyD273

That could be one advantage

I mean, it's not part of the question in question at all, but it's possible

The question asks "how would you design a train that can turn quickly so it can escape" and the only thing I can think of is to design a portable roundhouse, which is silly, or have two engines, one on the back, one on the front, and just switch which one is driving the train.

Green

Would long distance trains use a third rail? I've seen overhead lines for high speed trains in Japan but not a low-down rail.

@AndyD273 Trains don't turn. They only have a single dimension of travel. Turning implies two dimensional travel. Switching to a different track doesn't count in my mind.

AndyD273

@Green Which is why I think that going overland is going to be vastly superior.

Green

@AndyD273 The trade-off is that trains can carry orders of magnitude more cargo than an overland vehicle can at the cost of where the train can get to.

dot_Sp0T

2:59 PM

uuuhm.... train engines can go in both directions guys

Secret

networks.h-net.org/node/3128/discussions/27450/…

How the history of magic is being studied using archaelogical aartifacts

Green

@dot_Sp0T That's still a single dimension of direction. Forward or backward. There is not such thing as left and right to a train that it can choose for itself. Switches make the decision for them.

Secret

@JDługosz maybe, stories are pretty slow to come by. My dreams are good at exploding a lot of settings related ideas more than stories

dot_Sp0T

@Green yeah, i was more about the language issue; maybe turning is the wrong word

AndyD273

@Green Right, but you might not be looking to steal the whole train and every scrap of cargo. Just the bits that are really useful. And then you load it into one of these:

The World's Longest Truck - Road Train in Australia

►

dot_Sp0T

3:11 PM

@AndyD273 but they need roads...

AndyD273

@dot_Sp0T So put bigger wheels, better suspension, etc,

dot_Sp0T

@AndyD273 but there's no space; nor the tech

Green

@AndyD273 That's very impressive.

AndyD273

I'm not saying you shouldn't have your train pirates. Just pointing out a few of the many holes you'll have to overcome

Green

@AndyD273 and lighter payload requirements.

AndyD273

3:15 PM

@Green Sure, but the original question specified that they'd only have an engine and one or two boxcars. Something like this, should be able to handle that much freight, even with the lighter payload requirements, just by spreading the weight out over a longer area

dot_Sp0T

@AndyD273 so to understand you: the question is bad because you hate trains?

AndyD273

@dot_Sp0T I like trains, I just think trains are a bad idea for people who don't want to get caught by the authorities. They HAVE to follow the track. You can't just turn down a side street and lose them. If the authorities control the switches, and they will if there are pirates preying on cargo, then they can control who gets to be on the tracks, and can cut anyone off if they feel like it.

dot_Sp0T

I really just want to have pirate trains hijacking other trains on 6-8 track wide railroads

@AndyD273 there are no authorities

wel, brb, doctor's appointment

AndyD273

If there are pirates, then the people who don't want to get robbed by the pirates will get together and become the authorities, unless the pirates are just a tiny problem that isn't worth bothering about.

There was no law in Deadwood, until the people decided that they were tired of how things were going, and appointed a sheriff. And then there was law in Deadwood.

@dot_Sp0T Consider this part of the "are there any already obvious flaws in the concept that could derail the question if any nitpickers look at it?" clause in your question.

Green

@dot_Sp0T Then make world where there are only tracks.

AndyD273

3:28 PM

If you don't care then that's fine. Just make it happen and handwave the problems. No big deal.

dot_Sp0T

@Green but that i did

Green

@dot_Sp0T ah, sorry. I didn't see the original question.

dot_Sp0T

not your fault, need to add more of that data to the intro

I should wail more on the chat,that's a great issue with the q

@AndyD273 I wanted to apologize for saying that you hate trains. I know you love them just as much as everyone should. I just wanted to bring an edge of emotion into the rationality to see if it led to results - and blimey it did

Future Historian

Hmmmmmm. I have an idea: would an Industrial Revolution in the 1st or 2nd Century CE in the Roman Empire have accelerated its collapse?

AndyD273

@dot_Sp0T didn't offend me. We don't have a ton of rail options around where I live. The wife and I were thinking about taking a train as part of a romantic getaway sometime this summer, but decided that it would be way faster and cheaper to just drive just about anywhere we would want to go.

Future Historian

3:41 PM

Because it turns out that 1st Century Rome had a concept for a steam engine that never got off the ground. So, what if it did?

James

@FutureHistorian I am almost 100% sure that question was asked on main

dot_Sp0T

@FutureHistorian no

@AndyD273 you should go on vacation to Switzerland

James

7

Q: How can my ancient Roman civilization develop effective steam power for use in ships?

Following on from this question which specificaly asks about the consequences of aeolipile development, how can my ancient Roman civilization develop effective steam power for use in their ships? I assume this is just about impossible in our word, but what changes might make this possible? Or a...

Future Historian

@dot_Sp0T? Then what would be the consequences of this early Industrial Revolution?

Would Rome last longer or fall faster?

AndyD273

@dot_Sp0T Definitely can't drive there.

Can't take a train either though

dot_Sp0T

3:43 PM

@FutureHistorian Rome would conquer the world just like Britain did

RULE ROMANNIA

Bellerophon

@dot_Sp0T Technically we only conquered part of the world.

dot_Sp0T

@AndyD273 but once you're here you can do both

James

@AndyD273 Your car doesn't have wings?

@Bellerophon lol

dot_Sp0T

@Bellerophon The sun never set, that counts

Future Historian

But if Rome invented the steam engine and it was connected to the Silk Road, would the invention not spread beyond Rome's borders?

AndyD273

3:45 PM

@James The range isn't good enough to cross the Atlantic. I expect you'd need a bus at the minimum.

dot_Sp0T

also if anyone needs some good mil scifi: Jack Campbell, The Lost Fleet

@FutureHistorian Rome just has to spread fast enough by itself

James

@FutureHistorian Eventually, depends on how well it is protected and having one isn't the same as knowing how it works or how to replicate.

Future Historian

As in: China and Rome did have traders connected via the Silk Road.......so, would China not industrialise as well?

dot_Sp0T

@FutureHistorian no, because China is traditionalist

James

@dot_Sp0T Well they were...

Future Historian

3:47 PM

Even under the Han Dynasty?

James

Its a good point though

AndyD273

dot_Sp0T

The reason Rome did so bloody well is because it integrated and adapted; if there was something that could lead to issues they just integrated it and made it part of Rome - e.g. Gods were just added to the Pantheon

@AndyD273 is that the Kayak thing?

James

@AndyD273 bahaha

Future Historian

In other words: even under necessity, China would not industrialise?

AndyD273

3:48 PM

@dot_Sp0T Swimming

Future Historian

After all: I feel like China would industrialise out of the need to avoid getting boned by Rome.

dot_Sp0T

@FutureHistorian eventually presumably, but I would assume that would involve China breaking up first

Future Historian

But I am not sure if that is even possible.

@dot_Sp0T? I think I just noticed something. Rome was actually crawling with slaves.

dot_Sp0T

@FutureHistorian when threatend by the Huns they didn't create riding armies to get rid of them, they just built a wall

Future Historian

So, if the Romans start the Industrial Revolution, the slaves are no longer needed.

James

3:49 PM

@FutureHistorian Timing would be important...as would available communication technology...can rule all the way to china if you can't talk to them

dot_Sp0T

@FutureHistorian yes, and even slaves bathed

AndyD273

@Bellerophon At least in England you have a few alternate transportation methods available...

the Easter eggs can be quite fun...

Future Historian

Hmmmmm. I am assuming that the mid-late 1st Century results in the aeolipile being used as a sort of novelty at first, but in the 2nd Century, a fictional Roman scientist probably decides to find a practical use for it. Independently, a Chinese mechant who purchased an aeolipile decides to try and see if the same technology could be used to provide energy.

So,@James? Could that work to get this early Industrial Revolution started?

Basically, China and Rome independently begin industrialisation, though Rome's transition is faster than China's.

Wait a minute......

dot_Sp0T

Oh we can ping @James again?

Future Historian

@dot_Sp0T? The Silk Road at the time goes through the Parthian Empire, right?

Because I think their industrialisation via Sino-Roman trade relations may actually make Rome's expansion beyond Europe a problem.

The Kushan Empire being neighbours with them and China also makes things a problem.

dot_Sp0T

4:00 PM

@FutureHistorian I woudlnt know

Future Historian

Looks like the spread of the early Industrial Revolution via the Silk Road would cover most of Eurasia very quickly by the time of the early 3rd Century CE.

Perhaps it could even spread to Africa.

dot_Sp0T

most of what?

Future Historian

@dot_Sp0T. Eurasia.

Aka: Europe and Asia, not to mention parts of Africa (aka: a part of NOT Eurasia).

@dot_Sp0T? So, Rome has industrial technology but no printing press, right?

James

@FutureHistorian I don't see why not.

Future Historian

For now......

>:)

dot_Sp0T

4:09 PM

@FutureHistorian why not?

Future Historian

Because the conditions that Rome had in the 1st Century were not able to allow that yet?

dot_Sp0T

@FutureHistorian didn't Rome roam parts of northern afirca as well?

Future Historian

HOWEVER, keep in mind that since the Industrial Revolution happens early, then the Romans could invent the printing press later.

@dot_Sp0T. Yes, and in fact, that is where the aeolipile was invented.

Alexandria is the first industrial city in this timeline.

@dot_Sp0T? Late 2nd - early 3rd Century = printing press is invented.

However, I propose that invention to originate from China, which has industrialised at this point out of necessity.

Keep in mind that by "China", I mean as a culture, not as a unified state.

287 CE = Printing Press invented in China.

Bellerophon

5:29 PM

@AndyD273 That's not England.

AndyD273

@Bellerophon I wasn't sure where the delineation between Wales and England was. It doesn't show up on the map very well. I guess in hindsight I could have just used UK

I didn't think it was Wales, as there were plenty of vowels and I could pronounce all the city names.

Bellerophon

The dragon is a Welsh dragon.

AndyD273

5:45 PM

@Bellerophon Ah, well, not being from that area I wasn't sure about the distinction between a Welsh dragon and the common red dragon, especially from such a small image.

Bellerophon

Nor am I, I just recognised it because it is on the Welsh flag.

AndyD273

Where I'm from, anything south of Flint is essentially Detroit. But apparently people who live down there seem to think that there are multiple smaller cities. I just kind of smile and nod when one of them tries to explain the difference between Detroit and Auburn Hills.

dot_Sp0T

I know where you're coming from! Recently someone told me that America has more than 52 States

Bellerophon

Does it?

AndyD273

@Bellerophon Not exactly. It does have several territories, but they aren't really states

United States territory

United States territory is any extent of region under the sovereign jurisdiction of the federal government of the United States, including all waters (around islands or continental tracts) and all U.S. naval vessels. The United States asserts sovereign rights for exploring, exploiting, conserving, and managing its territory. This extent of territory is all the area belonging to, and under the dominion of, the United States federal government (which includes tracts lying at a distance from the country) for administrative and other purposes. The United States total territory includes a subset of...

American Samoa
Guam
Northern Mariana Islands
Puerto Rico
U.S. Virgin Islands

James

6:03 PM

50 formal states, quite a few little territories.

Green

7:53 PM

@James 50 formal states, quite a few colonies.

James

8:59 PM

@Green Shhh....

Green

@James Hey man, I'm gonna call an empire an empire. 'spade's a spade.