And I think that an amateur who is learning along with the making of the dish can give an even better explanation than the pro

@yossarian: you're calling me heavy? :o

@rumtscho- and then it becomes a contest on creativity and communication ability rather than just food service experience.

haha. Yes. Very heavy. ;)

Just because he is seeing what can be learned from the dish, what is hard to do, what is new. A chef won't notice this.

bastard :(

j/k, to be sure :p

@mien- wow.

i was kidding...

If there is anywhere a heavy person might be accepted it would be in a cooking community.

As to the problem with "somebody getting all the prizes", I think that a limitation is OK, but maybe not just three times forever

I know.

lol treu

*true

instead, we could make it based on time.

Once a winner, no right to a cash prize within the next 5 or 10 contests.

If there are badges or reputation along with the cash prizes, they don't need to be limited.

i'm not sure i follow you, rumtscho

We were talking about a new contest every 2 weeks.

they still can play, but no real prize?

So once somebody gets the first prize

@rumtscho That could be tuned to see what encourages participation.

Yes, they can play and get the visibility, reputation, and the fun of creating new stuff, of tackling a challenge

oh, something different: who decides what dish/ingredient has to be prepared? a poll? or the almighty admins?

@Mien Or the chat room owner!

That could be his token super power.

But to ensure fairness, they can't get the prize for 5 contests. Once the wait is over, they are eligible again.

Nah, that would be silly.

;)

Oh no.

Do you think I can come up with an interesting ingredient every 2 weeks?

post on meta. + votes. pick the top ones.

@rumtscho You'd probably come up with some bizarre thing that can only be found in rural Germany to give yourself an unfair advantage.

ah, sobaCHATina? i didn't notice

Oh yes. The quark-kutteln contest.

@Mien Oh no- sorry not me. My comment was in reference to a previous conversation about how rumtscho was automatically appointed the room owner somehow.

@rumtscho: in Belgium, there isn't an 'asparagus hype'

okay :)

But that's going in the direction I was thinking about. If the people who will enter the contest are proposing the ingredients on meta, then they can easily push whatever they are most comfortable with, especially if there isn't much voting at the beginning.

let a simple program pick a random ingredient?

@Mien That could be frightening or revolutionary.

The pickled herring contest.

@Mien, if there isn't a hype, is there at least the "common knowledge" that asparagus is better than other, more humble vegetables?

nope

Ok, so there are still sane people in the world.

you hardly see it in home kitchens or school kitchens

as always, the Belgians!

in the right season, sure, some restaurants put in on the menu

but not a lot of customers choose it :)

i'll ask some Dutch friends of mine too

Well, the Dutch have always seemed to me to have a much better (and varied!) relationship with their vegetables than the Germans.

The Dutch have control issues with their food.

Always tweaking it.

How many vegetables can you engineer out of cabbage afterall?

But they make it up with bread. If I was forced to eat Dutch bread every day, I'd develop ulcers. Sponge doesn't even start to describe it.

I've never had Dutch bread. I do like German bread though.

@rumtscho, but we (the flemish) do have a traditional way of serving asparagus, but it's nothing revolutionary

is there a difference in breads?

I have eaten many sorts of bread in Holland, and all were abominable.

in the netherlands, asparagus are quite popular :)

they have some weird combo's in NL

bacon in pancakes

Well, I eat my crepes with practically anything.

That is not a weird combo. That's a match made in heaven.

it is not :(

Bacon tastes good with anything.

I'd eat it.

Particularly maple syrup.

@Sobachatina, do you read calamities of nature?

they also put fruit in their pancakes, quite good, but not 'normal' here

i don't really like bacon.. Don't kill me

Pure fruit in a pancake is hard to manage, the pieces fall out.

@rumtscho I have not. What is it?

But if you mix the pieces in something creamy, it is very good.

@rumtscho Berries- in particular blueberries are very common.

@rumtscho, put them in when the pancake is almost done ;)

Calamities of nature is a web comic

It has a character who is more or less a stereotypical mad scientist

and he loves bacon

so many of his inventions center on bacon.

I'll check it out.

and I think that their merchandise, t-shirts and such, involved bacon.

baconorbeercan.com

thinkgeek.com/interests/zombies/da14

That's one of their t-shirts.

Is this SMBC?

looks more like XKCD

i'd go with xkcd

Well, I am not a bacon addict. Will never wear the t-shirt, just find it neat. But I'd totally eat bacon pancakes.

I've eaten crepes filled with mushrooms, small diced cured meat - not sure whether bacon or ham - and emmentaler. Tastes great.

I pasted the url to the xkcd entry and it displays the entry here as well as the mouse over text and linked back to the entry. Does this chat treat xkcd differently or is it that smart with other links as well?

I'm not an addict- I'm only allowed, by my wife, to eat it occasionally.

And that's ok.

My favorite application is to insert a slice of jalapeno into a large shrimp, wrap it in bacon, and grill it.

Sweet, salty, spicy and delicious.

sweet?

Just barely- from the jalapeno and shrimp.

@Sobachatina: I noticed the mouse over text as well :) it's awesome (the fact that it's visible in this room i mean)

I think it's smart with other rooms as well, let's try it out

I think that this is more of an imgur thing than chat room thing

Did you "upload" the image from the web, or just post a link?

@rumtscho I just posted a link to the xkcd page- not the image.

OK, then this is special treatment

common to all chat rooms, but works only with specific target sites

I read about it on the chat faq on SO when I researched the room owner questin

didn't know that xkcd is given that treatment. The ones named were YouTube, Amazon, etc. But it figures, given the frequency with which XKCD gets linked on the internet.

@rumtscho Good to know

i'm gonna sleep

nn guys

Later.

good night @Mien

@rumtscho- Do you have a good recipe for black bread?

Really heavy rye breads.

I haven't had much success trying to replicate Russian black bread.

It occurred to me that you might have some insight.

I think that is going to be my next experiment when I get all my stuff unpacked again.

No, sorry. I don't make the type. But you could try searching for a Pumpernickel recipe. This is what the heavy black bread is called in Germany.

That is what German rye bread is called here- I didn't know the word was authentic.

Not yet.

We close on the new house at the end of the month and then have to clean it up a bit before we move it.

I think that rye has a very low gluten content, maybe that's what is causing the trouble.

Everything is packed already because we are trying to sell our current house in the meantime.

I don't have a specific question to post yet because it's been a while since I tried and I don't remember exactly how it was wrong.

You have already the new house, but not yet sold the old one? Is the market lively enough that you can sell it within the month?

I have also learned something about bread since then so I want to try again.

Do you remember if you used sourdough or yeast? because all really dark breads I've eaten are sourdough.

Correct- if we don't sell it quickly then I will have to be making double mortgage payments. Hopefully not for long.

Yeast- that could be my problem.

Do you have McGee? I found what he says on rye bread.

I have it- it's packed.

What does he say about it?

That its gluten doesn't work like in wheat, that's why nowadays it's mostly mixed rye-wheat breads.

Pumpernickel is pure rye, with multi-stage sourdough fermentation, then baked at low temp for up to 20 hours.

Americans don't seem to like bread that they have to chew.

Rye has enzymes which digest the starches, the acid in the sourdough deactivates them.

Even rye breads from the store are too light and spongy.

Somebody once told me that practically all bread in the states has the texture of toast bread, even if it is called something else.

welcome, @hobodave.

The majority, yes.

That sunk the already low reputation of American cuisine in my eyes to new depths.

You can always find specialty breads if you look for them.

I make all the bread my family eats.

Yes, but I'd find it annoying to run all over town to get specialty items.

I bake 6 loaves twice a week and we give away 2 or three out of that.

hello :)

hello @hobodave

If I understand what you mean, I think you would still call it a toast bread but it is whole wheat and has some texture to it.

It is traditional American homemade bread but I don't know how to describe it to you.

I wouldn't take the time. With a family, it is probably another thing, but on most weekdays I don't do stuff which falls under "cooking" for me.

This is the recipe with a couple tweaks.

allrecipes.com//Recipe/fabulous-homemade-bread/Detail.aspx

Is it yeast bread? Because I think that the toast bread is chemically leavened.

Oh- no only yeast bread.

My wife and I have an arrangement- I assemble the dough and let it rise and then go to work, then she shapes the loaves and bakes them.

So the family not only eats, but helps. Sounds neat.

I once knew someone who had gluten sensitivity plus lots of other allergies. He practically couldn't eat anything storebought, only some very basic stuff.

He got a bread machine, because he didn't have the time or motivation for kneading. Made some amazing self-created recipes.

I think if I was gluten or lactose intolerant I would have to kill myself.

Somehow he got a half-sorghum, half-amaranth bread to taste well. And all with a machine.

Wow, cool.

I use a bosch mixer to knead- there's no way I would knead that much dough that frequently by hand.

Lactose intolerance would be the worst for me. Give me a cheese-yogurt mix garnered with cream cheese and I'll love you like a dog who chewed your house shoes.

I haven't tasted sorghum yet but it grows well around here so I want to try planting some and making syrup.

@rumtscho I'm afraid I have to star that one.

Thank you. I edited it to give context.

As for sorghum, I think that the bread baking variety and the sweet variety are not the same.

Oh- he used it as a grain? I've only heard of it as a sweetener.

Yes, it is a pseudo-grain.

No, sorry, it is a real grain. Amaranth is a pseud-grain.

I don't remember if he ground it or if he put the parcooked grains whole into the dough. Or both.

In Germany, sweetening bread is weird.

I should clarify- I've never heard of sorghum used in bread at all- I've only seen it boiled like sugar cane for the sugar.

In Germany, it looks that people don't even know about that.

Sorghum syrup was suggested in an answer here when I looked for corn syrup substitutes, and I searched it. Nobody is using it as a sweetener.

But as a grain, it is somewhat common.

It's kind of an old fashioned thing- I've never seen it in the store I've just read about it historically.

I'll see how it grows.

When you are at the supermarket, you can get wheat, spelt, maybe rye, and sometimes sorghum. For the more exotic breads, you have to go to a natural foods store.

You must have an enormous garden, with all the stuff you'll put there.

I don't have it yet- it's all just dreams right now.

I do want it to be bigger than the little plot we have now.

Actually have room for vining squash that we can't fit now.

If you already bought the house, it is much more than dreams. I dream of my own raspberries, but won't come out of the flat for at least another 3-4 years.

I'm annoyed that the last four sentences (including this one) ended with the word 'now'.

We have an internal technical conference every year at work.

As part of that they have a "science fair" where people can show off home projects.

This year I showed off my sous-vide controller that I built.

I get something like that often. When I feel that some aspect is important, and use the word which indicates it. Then I continue writing, and read over the text, and every single sentence in a paragraph or two contains the same word. Mostly such "fit-anywhere" words like "now" or "just" or "apparently".

I had 7 eggs that cooked for 3 hours or so at my booth.

4 of them were eaten by adventurous individuals.

Great. Did you get them to built their own controllers?

I've had several coworkers ask for build details so they can build their own.

It was very popular.

I thought about building one too, but have never done any hardware.

It was also an experiment in electronics- I'm a software guy so the electronics part is all new to me.

Also, I don't know if a rice cooker is the best starting point. I was thinking that a small induction heater with an exchangable pot would give much finer temperature control and a variety of pot sizes. But that makes it so much more complicated.

That's my setup.

I was thinking of taking a heater with me on vacation - I am visiting the family - and letting my dad take it apart for me and explain how it works.

That's the steak I cooked with it.

It was not the best steak I've ever eaten but by far the best I've ever made.

I'll do better next time.

So, the controller somehow changes the heat setting?

The slow cooker is only adequate.

Sorry- the picture doesn't show it but the slow cooker is plugged into the controller during normal operation.

Is it hard to override the built-in controls?

I meant to show this to @yossarian as well so I'll just drop his name so he can check it out.

@rumtscho No- the controller just turns the electrical outlet on and off as necessary.

Does it just get switched on and off, or does it get adjusted to another heating level?

Oh, the whole outlet.

The slow cooker is set to full on and then the outlet is turned on and off quickly to get average heating that is less than that.

That sounds definitely easier than trying to get the cooker controls to cooperate.

I agree.

But then, doing it with induction would be just as easy as with a slow cooker.

Because there is no need to hack into their controls.

I would think so- mine was an older slow cooker and is fine with being cycled all the time.

And will probably give a better responce.

I've read that newer digital models don't like that as much.

The biggest problem is circulation.

You're right, I shouldn't tell my dad about it.

My current setup has none so the temperature difference between the top and bottom of the pot is as much as 4-5 degrees in my tests.

He's always on me for "torturing" electrical components.

That's ok for starting out but not fine enough for advanced experiments.

Hmm, I think I've heard of using aquarium bubblers?

Also, your pot is quite high.

If you are making steaks and not a whole roast, won't less water work better?

Less of a temperature gradient between top and bottom, and also less thermal inertia of the whole thing.

But then, you'll have more frequent cycling.

That's true.

I bought a water heating element and waterproofed it.

I also bought an aquarium pump for circulation.

I just haven't put it all together yet.

The slow cooker was enough to get me excited about it.

Definitely, sounds like a great idea.

There must be some solution to the frequent cycling problem.

You mean with digital controls?

I was thinking of induction plates because I recently bought a cheap one - a great improvement in my kitchen.

Digital or non-digital, both are not entirely happy with frequent starts and stops at power supply level.

As long as it draws less than 10A of current my controller would still work with it.

I can understand if digital is worse.

My slow cooker is basically just a big heating element- starting and stopping shouldn't affect it much- it isn't getting time to cool down much.

But for the induction thing - and it is less than 10A, it gets the pan at 150°C with 300W at 240v - there is a funny thing I noticed.

It cycles itself, at least at the lower settings.

It heats for a while, maybe 15 seconds. Then it stops for 5 seconds. Then heats again.

OK, maybe it was only about things with motors.

Or maybe I am overly cautious. It is prudent to be, when you grow up with my father.

I hope I can cultivate those qualities with my kids playing with my stuff. :)

Otherwise, there are frequent lectures every time he notices that I am pushing on an ancient elevator button for less than 5 seconds. "Do you know what is happening with its poor connectors at this low starting current? Give it some time to start up properly before you release it. You are hurting it. " Mind you, that's not an elevator in a building where we live.

But he is an automation engineer and has some passion for his work.

Give your kids your soldering iron, they'll learn to respect your stuff quickly :)

Why is my starred comment sticking to the top of the list and have a hollow star?

It isn't starred, it is pinned.

I told you, as an owner I can pin a comment.

I didn't know what that looked like.

The weird thing is that I can't unpin it after some time limit (quite a short one, 15 min max).

I hope that it doesn't stay there forever.

Do you see stars made by me as golden? Because that's how I see them. Not hollow, but golden instead of black. The pinned one is golden with a dark border.

You should take your pinning powers more seriously- apparently they're permanent.

I think the comments that you star are gold for you.

Wait, I'm going to do a foolhardy thing now.

Mine are gold for me.

:(

Didn't work.

I hoped that there is just one pinned message, like the room topic on IRC

and that when I pin a new one, the old will go away.

But there were two pinned messages instead.

But you were able to immediately unpin the pinned comment?

Yes.

But when I try to unpin the old one, it says "it is too late for this action".

And now, after I pinned and unpinned a message of yours

You'd think they'd mail you an instruction manual when you were appointed leader.

it is still in the list, but with a star.

A normal star, not a pinned one.

It is golden.

And when I try to remove it, it just turns black.

I can perform which action again in 1 second?

Lol, did I just type too quickly?

OK, now I could remove the star. Or did you want it?

but stays there.

OK, so much for playing with room owner powers.

I feel used.

Why? Because I did a test on your message? I am sorry, but as nobody else has provided messages, I couldn't well select another test subject :P

:)

Now you have a star, cheer up.

It is 1:37 am in Heidelberg right now. You probably have class in the morning.

I'm going to leave that one, the message is a really good thought.

Oh, really? How come you've noticed it?

@yossarian As a gamer, I can say that the gaming proposal is a great idea for what they need over there. What we need over here would be more experts and better voting through put

I don't have to get up terribly early, but it's definitely past my usual bedtime.

I just thought of how Mien in Belgium had to get off a long time ago.

Oh, right. But I avoided looking at the clock then.

Sorry. Inconsiderate of me to draw attention to it.

Actually, I only logged on to see if there are new messages, before I noticed that there are real people in chat.

I hope it didn't come through that way. I don't mind it, and find it actually helpful that you reminded me.

I forgot to include the smiles to show that I was kidding. :)

I wasn't planing to chat the night away. Pardon my usage of German expressions, but there is no appropriate word in English - it is my internal swinedog which kept me from looking at the clock.

I like asparagus a lot.

Gently steamed so it is still crisp with or without a sauce.

But I can't say that it is given special treatment here.

huh?

@rumtscho - asked a question about cultish-like adoration of asparagus.

@sargesmith, @Sobachatina is referring to my question,

@sargesmith- what kind of restaurant running do you do?

ahh... i thought i was following the conversation but i don't have the main site up at the moment

i have rub a pizzeria, and I bounced through a bunch before that doing the "how to make your restaurant profitable" thing, and i run a kfc now

Oh my. Just wanted to do a search on a user. On the Users main page, I saw my avatar. And underneath? "bacon". Just because I answered one dumb question about it, which somehow got 1k hits. Now I am branded as a bacon specialist.

@rumtscho Branded? More like crowned a bacon specialist.

I could also be the reason why @Sobachatina is labeled "buttermilk", "dairy" and "pancake".

bacon specialists get all the bacon... there are worse things to be :)

@rumtscho That does sound like me though. Those tags seem pretty fickle.

Well, now people will think that I am really a bacon expert and/or a bacon lover, and there are so many other foods which I prefer.

(look at the sidebar, fourth star from above).

Yeah- if I had to choose between bacon and cheese it would be cheese.

I hope am never forced to make that choice.

I think it will be something that works itself out over time...

@sarge_smith The inaccurate tags or his love of dairy over bacon?

both... I find that as I answer questions what I am good at has naturally floated to the top.

not to say that there aren't the occasional outlier

Actually, I find this to be one of the weaknesses of the SE system.

@rumtscho Do that tags really matter that much though? I just considered them amusing not a source of useful information.

Up until two days ago, my highest voted answer was on a question Aaronut asked about chocolate.

No, they don't matter that much, but I mean something else.

I mean that I had an answer for that other question which I thought really good. In fact, it was my "original research" answer I mentioned earlier today.

Wow- I didn't notice how much that bacon answer had been voted up.

i guess what matters is, does it affect your ability to answer the other questions? and will you answer a question about bacon with purposely false info? if neither is yes, will it mess up anything to be identified as such?