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6:00 PM
@yossarian i've heard that before
@yossarian mmm
i think i saw it deep fried on iron chef once
I'm not sure it needs that much...
and then probably into ice cream....
I already thought of the ice cream.
But I will only use a small part for that.
6:01 PM
Or I will first make it into a cordial, then add the cordial to the ice cream.
you're on an ice cream kick
No, I've been planning a herb ice cream for a long time
but haven't made it
I'll just make it with good homegrown sage instead of supermarket-grown lemon balm.
@tastefive - btw, a novelty with that cheese slice is that you could put other stuff right into the cheese - like bacon or peppers or something
This sounds good. But without cornmeal.
@rfusca Don't you have compound cheeses in America?
6:05 PM
@rfusca i suppose so, but would you eat it straight like that?
@rumtscho we do sure, but you could make your own compounds
OK, maybe you can't ripen cheese with bacon with it.
@TasteFive nah, its really a convenience thing at that point. Move the work to a different time so that for lunch I just grab a slice of tasty special cheese for my easy grilled cheese
@rfusca i could see that i guess
Why wouldn't you eat a compound cheese straight?
6:08 PM
@rumtscho i find the texture of such cheeses when they're solid to be less than desireable
@rumtscho I wouldnt think it would taste good at all
not of normal compound, but of the slices ala American-style like earlier
especially if the texture was anything resembling american
again, I am hung up on the gelatin
6:10 PM
@rfusca We have edges of American-style compound cheeses here, we use them as a bread spread.
american is meant to melt..unmelted its really bad
@rumtscho as a spread??
@rumtscho you definitely could not use normal american cheese as a spread...you're not talking about the same product
which explains a lot of your side of the conversation
ya your thinking somthing else entirely
It comes in two kinds, one is thin square slices, the other is in edges.
The square slices are wrapped in foil separately, because else they would cling together.
6:12 PM
Each of the six pieces is wrapped in alu foil.
not the same stuff
OK, sorry. I didn't even realize I'm using the wrong word, although now you said it, I know I know it.
6:13 PM
ya, i've never heard of wedges of american cheese with a spreadable consistency. Pretty much the only way it is here is those square rubbery slices
The square kind is this one.
that is what Kenji replicated
They are made by the same technology
And if you cast the "slices" thick enough, you get the "wedges".
I couldn't see how you could spread it.
6:15 PM
All i'm saying is that normal american cheese, you cannot spread
if you can spread it, its not the same stuff
if it was thick it would be like velveeta which you couldn't spread
Maybe they use less cheese and more whey in the wedges, making them softer.
those wedges are a processed cheese product, and not a fresh young cheese with stuff added for flavor?
lol, from wikipedia about american cheese - ' In many jurisdictions, it does not meet the legal definition of cheese and must be labeled as "cheese analogue"'
Yes, they are made from cheese, whey, and additives.
6:18 PM
real american cheese isn't made from cheese...its a funky mix of dairy products that vaguely resembles cheese like substance
@rfusca Yes, my understanding of american cheese and velveeta is that they are not trully clasified as cheese
In Germany, you can call them "Schmelzkäse" (cheese for melting) as long as they have at least 50% real cheese in them.
@TasteFive ya I don't think they are
@rfusca it does start of with a mixture of real cheese
@TasteFive from my understanding, it used to but doesn't anymore
6:19 PM
@rfusca central market wont even put them in there cheese department, they are under dairy
its wikipedia, but it seems real to me - " It has been made from a blend of cheeses, most often Colby and Cheddar. Today’s American cheese is generally no longer made from a blend of other cheeses, but instead is manufactured from a set of ingredients[1] such as milk, whey, milkfat, milk protein concentrate, whey protein concentrate, and salt."
You can use either real cheese or other dairy stuff.
@rfusca sounds about right
@rumtscho either way, I would be interested to see those wedges.
you know what...i bet she's talking about a product similar to Cheez Whiz
@TasteFive I'm afraid the shipping costs will be too high. And then you'll have to spend a day in customs.
6:22 PM
@rfusca that is what I am thinking as well
If I'm allowed to send animal products outside of the EU at all.
you can spread Cheez Whiz
Here, you see an unpacked wedge.
wow that looks like american
but how is that spreading
that doesn't look spreadable to me...
6:23 PM
Do you notice how it holds its shape, but has impressions from the wrinkles in the foil? That's because it is softer than butter from the fridge.
It does spread, really.
wow, that is unique
It has the same glossy look like the squares
I havent seen anything like it here
but you can't tear you the way you can tear squares.
Velveeta looks pretty close to that out of the fridge. If it was a little softer, it would spread
6:24 PM
learn somthing new every day
i guess its somewhere between velveeta and cheez whiz
@rfusca sounds like a good enough explanation
which frankly, still sounds gross lol
@rfusca yeah I couldn't imagine it. Maybe they make it better over there, than they do here
@rfusca Sounds great to me.
6:26 PM
it must have a different flavor though. Nobody, and I mean, nobody willingly snacks on un-melted velveeta
You could use it as packing material or an industrial lubricant.
@Sobachatina lol
That's in the process of spreading.
@rumtscho, I'm familiar with the wedges, but Americans would definitely not call that American cheese. In fact, when it's available in the US, it's always got European packaging. I don't remember where it was from in England...
6:28 PM
@yossarian As I said, the Germans only have a single term for processed cheese, which includes American cheese. Maybe that's why I find it hard to see the difference.
@yossarian is that those same lil' wedges that they sell as 'laughing cow cheese'?
Sure, the squares are drier. But the texture is still very similar.
@rfusca That's exactly it, it is a big French brand.
La vache qui ris.
@rfusca, yes.
ah, ok....now this whole conversation makes sense
I'm glad we could clear that up.
6:30 PM
@rfusca I see know, I have never bought it before or even seen it unwrapped. I'll have to try it now.
i think i bought it once. it was 'ok' but not worth the price
@TasteFive It isn't the crown achievement of the dairy industry. It just has a texture which can come in handy in some cases.
@rumtscho understood, but after this conversation, I think it is diserving of at least a taste
ya, but its like two totally different things to me comparing that product to sliced American cheese. Its like calling chicken and beef the same because they're both meat - to me.
@rfusca, you don't just refer to them as meat? Weird.
6:32 PM
@rfusca To me, it is totally unexplainable how you can say cherry when you mean sour cherry. But that's life for you.
@rfusca but if they only really have one disticntion for processed cheese, you can see were the mixup is.
@TasteFive, I think it's worth a taste, but it reminds me of childhood, so I may be wrong. Unfortunately it's an import so you pay for that.
@TasteFive oh totally, it just still seems whacky
@yossarian :P no, but I don't call chicken, beef
@yossarian Yes, the import thing is ugly. The stuff at the English shop was also two to three times its normal price, despite the fact that there are no import taxes within the EU.
@rumtscho indeed, like i said - for me
6:34 PM
Every time I glance at this question I see: "How can I keep my wife relatively clean when making waffles?"
Q: How can I keep my waffle iron relatively clean when making waffles?

ahsteeleI do not make waffles overly frequently, but when I do I tend to make a mess of my waffle iron. I use a ladle to place waffle batter in the middle of my waffle iron. On accident I occasionally overfill the iron so that when it is closed batter runs out the sides. The obvious answer is use less ba...

And where does the iron come in?!
@hobodave ya, i really gotta stop flinging waffles at the missus...
I bet you also read "I use a lady to place wife batter"
i gonna switch to a cast iron waffle pan which I think will be ultimately easer to clean. All the electric ones I've had are a PITA
How is a cast iron waffle pan heated?
6:37 PM
@rumtscho on the stove
Oh, I didn't know they had this shape.
But does the upper half get hot enough?
Or do you exchange halves for each waffle?
you just flip it half way through
and it fits with my current cast iron kick
@rfusca yeah you are serious loving cast iron right know
6:39 PM
At least your habit is cheap on your side of the pond.
@TasteFive yes, yes I am
Click through for the price.
6:41 PM
@rumtscho OMG, that is crazy
It's a luxury product for snobs.
@rfusca couldn't you heat both side up and cook the waffle off the stove. Cast iron should retain the heat pretty well
considered that as well
I mean, that's who buys it here. Not people who are accustomed to iron being a great material for cooking, but people who want to cook in style.
6:43 PM
@rumtscho I like to cook in style
@rfusca I would think it would heat up to slow if you tried to flip during cooking without both sides already being heated up
@hobodave That's not a bad thing in itself. But there are people who put style before functionality in tools.
@TasteFive i need to replace my waffle maker with CI and my muffin tins, and get a good enameled CI dutch oven and I'll be happy
@TasteFive agreed, it would need to start off hot. But that's really only a problem for the first batch because it retains heat so well.
@rfusca If you have a costco near you, I have been happy with my Kirkland brand CI enameled dutch oven
I mean, style before functionaility is perfect for decoration. But the idea of paying 200 Euros for a water kettle because it is designed by Porsche engineers sounds crazy to me.
6:45 PM
@TasteFive it'll probably be either the Lodge or the Tramontina is rated well
@rfusca Lodge is a good go to company. Never used there enameled products though
@TasteFive ya, pretty much all my CI is Lodge - but they don't make a waffle maker yet :(
the tramontina is slightly large, which I'm trying to determine if I need
but I trust Lodge's warranty and brand name more
my favorite style when I cook is nude with just an apron
i think i just went blind
from a mental image
@hobodave ummmmmm, ok
6:48 PM
well I tried it sans apron before but that goes poorly when hot oil is involved
@hobodave just nothing that spatters, right
I don't think $150 is much to spend on a pan though
for a new cast iron pan it seems really high
@rfusca how did the orange chicken go last night
@hobodave depends on the pan.
6:50 PM
@TasteFive wonderfully
@rfusca only if you compare to lodge. Not staub or le creuset
@TasteFive Yes, but does a staub pan cook food which is three times as good?
@TasteFive well, i'm not talking about enameled cast iron - i'm referring to those wicked expensive normal CI waffle pans that rumtscho linked
@rfusca I agree, just saying it depends on comparison.
cooks illustrated rated the lodge above the staub
(I believe it was cooks illustrated at least)
6:53 PM
I actually paid 100 Euros for a small enameled DO from Le Creuset
@rfusca they take price into factor with there reviews.
as they should
But if another brand had been available, I would have gotten a cheaper one.
but gave it to the le creuset overall for one big reason
CI did not review the Staub
@hobodave i must be thinking of somebody else then
6:54 PM
OK, so what was the reason for Le Creuset?
CI rated both Lodge and Camp Chef as "Highly Recommended"
the lid is machined to sit flat
they also have an enamel interior
So, Staub sells pans for hundreds of euros and the lid doesn't even fit tight?!
other brands use three small bumps to create a stable, but not flat surface
6:54 PM
is lodge not an enameled interior
@TasteFive they make both
@rfusca ah, ok
@rumtscho i've never used one, i'm just going off what I read. I'll have to find the reviews I looked at
my kirkland brands appear to be machined flat. At least it doesnt have the bumps
@TasteFive thats nice, does it sit tight?
6:56 PM
I think I paid $50 for it
@rfusca it does
Where is the point of using a cast iron dutch oven, if you have air moving freely through a gap between the lid and body?
I have a CI subscription if you guys ever need me to look stuff up btw. I'm happy to.
i got it on sale i guess, cause i know i didnt pay 80
might be cheaper in the stores
@rumtscho very, very small bumps
@TasteFive seems to get good reviews
plus. mine is a white enamel on the inside, the pic doesn't reflect that.
this might just be a newer model
6:58 PM
looks thinner though
also notice it is made in france
@TasteFive interesting. it looks pretty decent - but I'd have to see it before buying and I don't think there's a costco close
worth noting is that costco sold a le creuset, before they had this branded one
3.5 hours away :(
@rfusca bummer
7:00 PM
@hobodave That's cool, can you maybe send me the article on ice cream makers in some way? cooksillustrated.com/equipment/overview.asp?docid=25989
@TasteFive ya, we have a lack of good stores in the area
for as much as I love arkansas, the shopping is not good
@rfusca it wont be a problem the lodge will be just fine I am sure.
@rumtscho Sure, is it OK to send to your yahoo email address?
here's a picture of those bumps on the rim btw
i need to get a look at the Tramontina to see if its the same way or not
@rfusca interesting
7:07 PM
BTW, as we are talking about international food exchange
wonder how much of a difference that really makes
three of them, make it like a tripod so that the lids don't have to be truly flat or fitting to look stable
I am having the first bite of Hershey's in my life.
@rumtscho :)
@rumtscho compared to european chocolate...its pretty waxy
7:08 PM
@rfusca lol
it is!
@rfusca I have a milk chocolate bar here, so I don't expect that much.
good to keep your expectations low with most american chocolate ;)
But I also think it is made with non-dutched cocoa. European chocolate is always made with dutched cocoa.
I am so not a chocolate person. Hersheys milk chocolate is my favorite
7:09 PM
@rumtscho read my last message to you before I get distracted and never send this :P
people think I am totally crazy
I think it's pretty OK, but don't have a European milk chocolate here to compare.
@TasteFive you are crazy
i'm a big chocolate person though
which is no surprise given my inclination towards desserts
@hobodave Oh, sorry, didn't see it. Yes, that's OK.
Forgot that you can see the address, and was just thinking of a way to give it to you without leaving it in the transcript for all robots around the internet to read.
@rfusca yeah even in dessert I rarely would opt for chocolate
7:13 PM
@rfusca you are totally right about the waxy part.
There is European chocolate which uses emulsifiers, but probably not in these amounts.
@rumtscho yup. I've eaten a fair amount of good chocolate and then when I bite a hershey's its like eating a bar of wax
@rumtscho sent
@rfusca I was just curious, because it is mentioned often in American sources.
ya, its super, super common over here
and quite cheap
I wouldn't expect it to compare to a Lindt or a Cote d'or, but there are common chocolates here too.
Do you have Milka in the States? It is a Kraft product now.
7:15 PM
I'm not sure if we do yet..but I've had Milka
Actually Kraft Jacobs Suchard, but I think you don't use the long concern name as often as the brand.
Milka is pretty much the standard chocolate in Germany.
based on their website, I don't think its here yet
Reasonable price, OK taste, big variety.
I used to sell different imported chocolates as a fund raiser for German club in high school :)
How did you like it?
7:17 PM
it was pretty decent
@rumtscho they are all owned by phillip morris now
@hobodave Thank you very much, it arrived and I'm starting reading it.
Is it normal for CI tests to be so short?
wow, I just actually double checked my previous statement and phillip morris actually distributed its holding of kraft to its share holders so it is actually now an independently held company, that is actually very interesting.
@rumtscho pretty much, there's more to it but they segment it inconveniently on their website, e.g. there is the "overview" which is a few paragraphs explaining the testing criteria, then there is a bit of detailed product info on each product, on a separate page, and finally the "results" page that I sent you
@TasteFive Wikipedia says Kraft were bought by Philip Morris in 1988, bought Jacobs Suchard in 1993, and left Philip Morris in 2007. So they are not Philip Morris any more.
7:27 PM
A: Should cooking with drugs (legal or illegal) questions be on topic?

Robert CartainoPlease, give me a break. Once you edited out the potency reference (which was clearly off topic), leaving the rest is just gratuitous grandstanding. It's asked simply to provoke. This isn't a drug issue or an issue of legality. It's a content issue and what you want for this site. Are you even a...

yeah I just want aware of the 2007 move. When I studied them in collage it was all about the phillip morris move.
I recanted my statement above
go Robert
@hobodave I see, they have a Web layout. With German magazines, people with Web subscriptions usually get a pdf file with each article as printed in the magazine, and it has lots more to say, that's why I wondered. The results are then a densely-packed table, so I didn't recognize them as such.
@rfusca I haven't looked back on that question in a while. Didn't realize anyone was trying to say free speech
well that's what the whole "well we can't censor drugs.." argument is
7:32 PM
@hobodave I thought the argument though was in certain society the is a cooking relevance, not a we should be able to talk about it because of free speech.
I have seen no one claim there is cooking relevance in any society
So, you would classify cannabis butter as food?
I guess I have mainly followed the discussion on this chat
@rumtscho I would not
what you classify it as is irrelevant
that just brings out the dictionary/wikipedia nerds
But it was brought up in the chat that because cannabis butter had a uniquely different process to its preparation than say just any other herb butter, the process could be relivant to discuss. I could see an arguement made for that
7:35 PM
the "drugs include nutmeg" and "food includes cum" because they fit the definition crowd
I'm late but I have an opinion about the chocolate thing.
@hobodave But I have said if it were left totally up to me I would rather just leave it off the site. But I am in no way King
Cheap chocolate in the US tastes way better than cheap chocolate in Europe.
it's a shame when common sense is considered a poor justification for something that is in fact common sense :)
@Sobachatina I can listen to opinions about chocolate any time.
7:37 PM
Expensive chocolate in Europe doesn't taste better than expensive chocolate in the US.
The problem is that we only get the expensive European chocolate here which people compare to cheap US chocolate and are then convinced that all chocolate in Europe is amazing.
You can by the same cheap, waxy, chocolate in gas stations there that you can here- but there it will be mostly puffed-rice filler.
There. I'm done.
@Sobachatina its a good point, you dont see very much high end made in america chocolate in the super markets
@TasteFive true
It doesn't even have to be that expensive to compare favorably.
@hobodave No, the word "common sense" is in fact bad I think. Because everybody thinks that his own beliefs are the beliefs of everybody (or at least everybody who matters) and labels those "common sense".
@Sobachatina interesting. I'll admit, I don't know that i've ever had cheap euro chocolate. They probably don't bother to import the stuff
7:39 PM
I usually buy 70% cocoa bars in the candy isle for a couple bucks a bar.
@rumtscho really has nothing to do with belief here, but I don't want to discuss this anymore
More expensive but I don't make smores out of it.
OK, I'll continue discussing chocolate then :)
Good. Join us.
yes chocolate is a much better topic even in my opinion
7:40 PM
So, what is "good" American chocolate then?
Just kidding.
@Sobachatina lol
I'm not much of a Toblerone fan.
7:41 PM
In Europe, you have 4 tiers of chocolate.
The lowest are some supermarket brands which taste terrible.
@rfusca hey I have had there chocolate, it is actually pretty darn good. I thought it was an import though
sometimes its good to be wrong
nope, Cali :)
ahh, cali
Second comes "normal chocolate", like Milka and Ritter Sport. Can have veggie fat instead of cocoa, but has a decent taste.
@TasteFive its right up there with any chocolate I've ever had from anybody or anywhere
and you pay accordingly
7:43 PM
Price around 1.20 € for 100 grams, comes in lots of different tastes, doesn't go to more than 60% cocoa for the darkest sorts.
five pound baking squares is about 70 bucks, not including shipping
Third is the luxury chocolate, like Lindt. Really good stuff, starts at 2 € for 100 grams for plain chocolate, runs from 30% to 99% chocolate content. Only has cocoa solids, cocoa fat, sugar and milk solids. No additives beyond that.
It also comes in fancy variations beside plain - with fillings etc.
we have lindt in the supermarkets here
its decent
Expensive but 5lbs is a lot of chocolate.
its a lot but if you're making a lot out of chocolate its not that much
a bag of chocolate chips for a batch of cookies is 12 oz
7:46 PM
Good point.
And fourth is the conditor chocolate, like Valrhona. The manufacturer sells it in 20 kg bags only, and also carries pure cocoa butter etc. Conditors use it to make handmade chocolate ware and sell it to customers locally.
@Sobachatina ya, for a home baker, 5 lbs is monstrous. If you're selling chocolate stuff, thats a drop in the bucket
so I have to ask, since it is semi related to chocolate. does anyone like mole sauce
i've had one mole sauce that I liked - it was in a class I took a few years ago
i've never had it out that I enjoyed
nor have I attempted to make it
@sobachatina, what is in your opinion the correct comparison of common American chocolate to said European classes, and what is the actual comparison being made?
7:50 PM
I had it once and enjoyed it. I enjoyed it because it was an interesting and unique flavor to me. I don't think I would just eat it for fun.
Good heavens @rumtscho. I don't know American manufacturers nearly well enough to be able to compare them at that level.
I am just skimming the mole sauce article on Wikipedia (never heard of it before), how is it related to chocolate?
looks like scharffen berger and valrhona are pretty often compared, they seem to be in the same 'class'
It contains chocolate
My comment above is not that European chocolate isn't good but that there are good American chocolates that people ignore.
@TasteFive not all do, but most American's, if they're familiar with mole sauce, with of it as having mexican chocolate in it. But it doesn't have to by definition
7:52 PM
Kind of like how Mercedes is a luxury car here and in Germany even the dump trucks are made by Mercedes.
@rfusca But you can't get Valrhona bars at the supermarket here. Or is Scharffenberger also sold to bakers only?
@rfusca I have never had one without it.
@rumtscho its not sold in markets around here, but I think you can get it easier out west. You can definitely just order some as an average joe though
looks like some normal'ish markets carry it
wegmans, publix, whole foods,albertson - those are national chains
@Sobachatina I'd like to try high grade American chocolate some day. But until then, do you think that comparing a Hershey's to a regular European chocolate bar for 1.20 € per 100 g is unfair, or is it that the frame you had in mind?
@rfusca I guess it is because I have only had it on turkey with Mole sauce. What I had come to know as the national dish of Mexico. It would have always included chocolate. So i never new there was any other preparation. I hear Mole, I think chocolate sauce
7:57 PM
I don't think Hershey's compares unfavorably but it is a style and flavor that Americans are very accustomed to so it seems boring. This is just my opinion of course. I try to pay attention to what I like but I don't spend a lot of money comparing chocolate.
I agree @TasteFive. I thought mole meant cocoa was in it.
@Sobachatina it would be a very expensive task indeed to do an in-depth chocolate comparison.

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