The Frying Pan

1:00 AM

If it were possible to give bounties on meta, I would happily give one to anyone who wants to write a concise, new-user-friendly explanation of comments, how they get deleted, and where it's appropriate to have various kinds of discussion.

There's some relevant stuff on MSO FAQ: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/19756/how-do-comments-work, in the comment privileges page cooking.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/comment

SAJ14SAJ

@Jefromi Nice idea, but boy that is a lot of work :-)

SAJ14SAJ

2:27 AM

@user66001 Regarding meta.cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/1767/… When does something need a citation, and what does it mean? Something needs a citation when it is not obviously true or obvious and simple to verify without a specific citation, or when you are quoting or using the work of another. In this case, the fact in question is very, very easily verifiable. I had provided you the key phrase of jargon "standard of identity for margarine".

Simply googling that would provide the information. You don't need a formal inline citation for somethign that trivially verifyable, and the citation only adds value if you follow it. You could have just as easily found the infomration without the citation. And it was only a comment, which is why I didn't cite it there.

BTW, the discussion you found about butter with less than 80% milkfat is about things that can be labeled "light" or "reduced calorie" or "reduced fat"; they could not be labelled simply butter without the requisite 80% fat.

BTW, I flagged the commentary for moderator cleanup. Others may have as well, I don't know.

ElendilTheTall

8:16 AM

@Mien eh?

SAJ14SAJ

11:52 AM

I hate the week after a forced password change when you keep typing the old one by mistake....

Mien

12:12 PM

@ElendilTheTall Talking about Cameron's bright idea.

SAJ14SAJ

Hi @Mien Are you getting in to trouble in your last days of freedom?

Mien

Nope :P

there is a huge festival in my city now :)

SAJ14SAJ

@Mien Then you are festivating?

Martin Turjak

12:55 PM

@Mien is it this? gentsefeesten.be/en

looks super cool

Martin Turjak

1:05 PM

@SAJ14SAJ bean there, don that

it's an attempt to make a food pun this time, not my poor english ;-)

SAJ14SAJ

:-)

Martin Turjak

@SAJ14SAJ do you still have such crazy temperatures? here we overstepped the 100 mark yesterday ... and today it feels even worse ... and in a place where I was waring a jumper a week ago

=P

SAJ14SAJ

It is much more moderate this week :-)

Martin Turjak

and this are the temperatures outside in the shade ... in here it feels more like a sauna

lucky you ... I might follow your model from last week and take a cooling bath

although this reminds me of what you wrote yesterday - "convection is better than conduction" for cooling stuff - I should really get some kind of fan

SAJ14SAJ

1:25 PM

That is what I do... when I get off the phone I will tell you my tricks.

Martin Turjak

cool

that would be very much appreciated ... as I am slowly starting to melt

I haven't seen the cats today .... they probably already melted away

SAJ14SAJ

Tiers of defense....

1. Use a fan

2. Use a fan and as few clothes as you can reasonably get away with :-)

Martin Turjak

@SAJ14SAJ I am in germany ... so, as said the other day ... this shouldn't be a problem here

SAJ14SAJ

3. Use fan, and a water bucket. Wipe yourself down. The fan will evaporate the water, for a strong cooling effect.

4. Fill your tub, and get in it.

Martin Turjak

@SAJ14SAJ that's a great idea ... I will get a bucket straight away

SAJ14SAJ

1:31 PM

Suprisingly, you will probably have to use some hot water, or it will be too cold.

Martin Turjak

@SAJ14SAJ thanks

wow ... this bucket idea really helped ... we have an evaporation (pot-in-pot) fridge ... but never thought to apply this on myself

@SAJ14SAJ I owe you one ^_^

now I will be actually able to do some work today

SAJ14SAJ

:-) The tub thing is for really hot days. :-)

Martin Turjak

@SAJ14SAJ will keep it in mind

SAJ14SAJ

1:47 PM

No AC has tought me some practical applied physics :-)

Martin Turjak

@SAJ14SAJ I usually could escape somewhere into a deep shade have a cold beer ... but now I have my office under the roof and with the sun shining straight at the wall next to my desk ... so all your experienced advice is appreciated here

and since we moved here it has rained most of the time ... so I shouldn't complain about some summer weather

but the human nature ... never happy with what you've got

SAJ14SAJ

Hot days are when the kitties seem to need to sit with you and be petted. Furry blankets!

Martin Turjak

@SAJ14SAJ more like furry melting dumplings

SAJ14SAJ

That is very sweet.

Martin Turjak

indeed :-)

and this is a dumpling =D

and the other dumping ... otherwise known as the camel cat:

Mien

2:07 PM

@MartinTurjak It is

@SAJ14SAJ I was yesterday, will go again

Martin Turjak

@Mien looks really cool ... there seems to be stuff going on all over the place

Mien

There is :)

Martin Turjak

I just wanted to add this as reference, so that noone gets confused why I call the one above "camel cat"

SAJ14SAJ

I understood.

If their paws stick out, then it is the Sphynx :-)

Martin Turjak

lol

@SAJ14SAJ aren't otherwise "sphinx cats" the ones without fur?

SAJ14SAJ

2:16 PM

I think so, but that is a separate issue.

Martin Turjak

@SAJ14SAJ it just reminded me ... that i heard on the radio a while ago that someone left a box full of them in front of an animal shelter here in germany ... in the middle of the winter

and they almost froze to death in the night

and then they were giving them away, cause they need a lot of care ... and thousands of people were calling them ... apparently mostly cause it is an illegal breed here and one costs a lot of money

SAJ14SAJ

I don't approve, and they shouldn't be bred--its bad for the cats. But the ones who are born should be taken care of.

Martin Turjak

@SAJ14SAJ mhm ... I agree ... it's a sad story

SAJ14SAJ

I was talking about the pose.

But amazingly, if you just google "sphynx" and select images, you get many naked cat pictures. I had to google "sphynx egypt" to see a picture of... well... the sphynx!

Martin Turjak

@SAJ14SAJ I understood ^_^

Mien

2:24 PM

My cat sleeps something with his paws out.

Martin Turjak

@Mien mine sleeps sometimes with only the paws out ;-)

SAJ14SAJ

That is funny

Mien

lol :P

Martin Turjak

4:21 PM

@SAJ14SAJ I was just thinking about extracting something from a solution by freezing ... if something is soluble only at higher temperatures?

... I don't know ... but for example my family produces wine ... and by storing wine in the fridge, cream of tartar separates from the wine ... where otherwise it is completely dissolved.

or to crystalize sugar for example ... you can cool a saturated sugar solution

anyway ... apparently people got the mint oil out of their vodka

I never tried anything like that ... as we usually drunk all aromatized alcohol before having time to play with it more =P

SAJ14SAJ

@MartinTurjak This are differentially soluble, yes, but even then the outcome depends. Someone who knows more of the details would have to answer.

Martin Turjak

@SAJ14SAJ I think the one that you are talking about might be something like alcoholysis ... we learned about this in organic chemistry ... but I am not sure it effects all fats.

but yes, lets wait for a chemist to explain this part ^_^

but now I am curious and want to try it myself ^_^ (not that I have any particular need for mint essence)

rumtscho

4:53 PM

@MartinTurjak yes, this can be done. Used to be done to make strong alcohol before they discovered distillation, actually

It is rather inefficient, so not used any more

Fractional freezing

Fractional freezing is a process used in process engineering and chemistry to separate substances with different melting points. It can be done by partial melting of a solid, for example in zone refining of silicon or metals, or by partial crystallization of a liquid, for example "freeze distillation", also called "normal freezing" or "progressive freezing". Partial crystallization can also be achieved by adding a dilute solvent to the mixture, and cooling and concentrating the mixture by evaporating the solvent, a process called "solution crystallization". Fractional freezing is gener...

I should probably head over and create an answer at least to the third subquestion, but currently too tired to be bothered. If some of you guys wants to do it, go get the fame and points :)

ElendilTheTall

5:49 PM

@mien I wasn't aware he had any.

SAJ14SAJ

@rumtscho The only time I heard of this process being used was for home made applejack (hard cider) during the colonial era. But the thing is, doesn't it separate the water out (since the ice crystals tend to be pure), leaving all of the oils and other impurities behind? So it would not help separate the oils from the alcohol.

Mien

6:14 PM

@ElendilTheTall b0ing.me/thanks-david-cameron-no-really

oh that's a blog post

well, it links to an article :P

derobert

9:10 PM

Can I ask Cameron to filter royal births out of my Interwebs?

Actually, that should be the default. Far more likely to accidentally run across that than porn.

You see that nonsense even if you completely avoid celebrity gossip sites.

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert ??

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ like, even if you just pull up reputable supposed-news sites

even NPR has it now

and the BBC has been infected for weeks

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert I only do in the most most dire circumstances like storm reports. Ignorance is bliss :-)

derobert

Heck, even Al Jazeera...

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert You do travel widely.

derobert

9:18 PM

Even random economics blogs

There is nowhere to go to hide from it.

SAJ14SAJ

You definitely should stay away from those.

I point out... and I mean this... I hadn't heard about this event until you just mentioned it here! You have ruined my ignorant bliss.

Even here is not a place to hide!

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ Well, you see, you might thing the continuing unrest (following a "let's not call it a military coup for legal reasons") in Egypt is the most important news story going on. Or maybe the civil warn in Syria. Or the prison break in Iraq. Or the earthquake in China.

But no, it's the fact that some British person got knocked up 9 months ago!

SAJ14SAJ

I hadn't heard about any of those things

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ Ah, well, don't worry, it seems according to most folks, only one of those is important.

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert I imagine they are all important to someone.

Even the last.

But I cannot bring myself to begin to care about the last.

derobert

9:26 PM

Yes. The last one should be important to, oh, how about the three people involved?

SAJ14SAJ

Their parents too.

derobert

Ah, yes. And maybe some siblings as well. They might care about a new nephew.

SAJ14SAJ

That would be the scope of it, yes.

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ so what other major news stories haven't you heard of? Have you heard that Bush is no longer President?

SAJ14SAJ

If it makes it through to comedy blogs, I generally hear about it.

Pluis, it was Bush the Second's usurpation of the presidency that turned me from a news junkie into a news avoidier.

derobert

9:30 PM

Wait, both the Daily Show and Colbert were infected with that British birth thing... surprised the comedy blogs haven't been affected yet. Suggest quarantining them immediately, for their own good.

SAJ14SAJ

I would tell you about the monks who helped the lady across the street, despite a vow not to touch women. But cannot remember the koan.

So I will just tell you the moral of the story: you are making a big fuss over it too :-) Take a deep breath. Order a pizza!

derobert

Hah, true. We should talk about something else.

Like, say, which Tchaikovsky symphony is the most fun to listen to. I'm thinking the 5th.

SAJ14SAJ

You can post your kitty pictures.

I only know from the balet, not symphonies.

Now nutcracker is in my head, you evil evil person.

And Bunheads was cancelled. I really liked that show :-(

derobert

Bunheads? Appears to be a TV show I've never heard of.

SAJ14SAJ

It was a really niche show from ABC family, never got great viewership, but it was really fun. I liked it.

derobert

9:37 PM

(Though the first TV show that comes to mind from Tchaikovsky's ballet is Princess Tutu which I'm sure you've never seen.)

SAJ14SAJ

All your shows are manga I have not only never seen, but never even heard of :-)

derobert

It's on Hulu, apparently.

SAJ14SAJ

Hulu is gathering some obscure stuff.

derobert

That one is pretty accessible! It's more or less a traditional Western fairy tale.

SAJ14SAJ

I tried the alchemist one. .... it wasn't for me.

I wtched maybe six episodes.

derobert

9:47 PM

Wow, Wikipedia's collection of reviews (of Tchaikovsky's 5th) is impressive...

"Of the Fifth Tchaikovsky Symphony one hardly knows what to say ... In the Finale we have all the untamed fury of the Cossack, whetting itself for deeds of atrocity, against all the sterility of the Russian steppes. The furious peroration sounds like nothing so much as a horde of demons struggling in a torrent of brandy, the music growing drunker and drunker. Pandemonium, delirium tremens, raving, and above all, noise worse confounded!"

SAJ14SAJ

Erm, but what does it sound like?

derobert

Hah, YouTube will certainly have a copy...

Or whatever subscription music service you use.

SAJ14SAJ

I don't really use anything.

derobert

Well, then, I suppose you'll have to settle for the reviews describing it!

youtube.com/… gives plenty of recordings, of course.

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert Is it one I would recognize if I heard it?

derobert

9:57 PM

Maybe, I'm not sure if anything really famous has used it.

of course, easy enough to find out with that YouTube link

SAJ14SAJ

Years of classical radio at grandparents house...

derobert

yeah, then you've probably heard it

SAJ14SAJ

Its very hard to bring up youtube while playing a game on the other monitor. The computer tends to get fussy.

And the zombies must die. Or whatever these monsters are.

derobert

Wait, the zombies should have been prevented when they avoided turning off the water for days.

SAJ14SAJ

That was the real world, this is a game.

Cerberus

10:10 PM

Sooo the royal baby.

pukes

SAJ14SAJ

@Cerberus grrr

Cerberus

There. Covered.

SAJ14SAJ

Good.

I remain at least ignorant of who the parents are, its gender, or what its name is. So that is at least good.

Cerberus

It's ridiculous how even "respectable" newspapers devote more than a single short article to it.

SAJ14SAJ

And don't tell me.

Cerberus

10:11 PM

Fear not.

SAJ14SAJ

And yet not one article on 3-headed dog sightings in Holland.

Cerberus

I mean, sure, the very fact that the baby was born is worth a short article stating the basic facts, on the same day. But I do not need an "analysis", which is bogus and bollocks anyway, nor several articles during, before, and after.

SAJ14SAJ

What is there to analyze about a baby? It sleeps, eats, and poops.

Cerberus

Exactly.

I mean, it's OK to be interested in silly gossip, as a guilty pleasure. But not in major newspapers.

There are tabloids and gossip magazines for that.

SAJ14SAJ

We seem to have consensus in this room.

Cerberus

10:15 PM

Rats.

SAJ14SAJ

Where?

Cerberus

As in, "damn".

Or were you joking...

Do people say "rats" in those parts?

SAJ14SAJ

Yes, so I was being silly. It has been known to happen.

Cerberus

shocked

throws baby at you

SAJ14SAJ

ducks

derobert

10:19 PM

Now, there is a news story!

SAJ14SAJ

I am babyphobic

derobert

"Royal baby kidnapped by 3-headed dog, thrown at passerby"

SAJ14SAJ

They are very scary

That would sell papers.

I don't think you can blame the infant for the royal thing though.

Cerberus

@derobert As long as it hits the passer-by...

derobert

@Cerberus What if it misses the passerby and hits VA Governor McDonnell, along with $250k in gifts?

Anyway, time to run.

Cerberus

10:41 PM

@derobert Huh, what?

And bai!

Cerberus

11:05 PM

in The Symposium, 19 hours ago, by Dr Sister

"a delirious lucidity whose madness testifies to the hyper-sanity of its own quadruple negation of birth through self immolation, negating the precreated absent affirmations of the night of being that never arrives, interiorised next to the interiority of the opaque clarity in revealing the always present subject whose lack of being is constituted by never being there." - Maurice Blanchot

A random quote from the chat room about philosophy.

Quoted as an example of ridiculous post-modernist language, no doubt.

in The Symposium, 18 hours ago, by Dr Sister

"stuff is like a rhizomatically decentred machinic virtuality miraculating bodies-without-organs inside nomadic self organising refrains repeating schizophrenic difference via incarnation of real but not actual universal singularities" - Deleuze & Guattari

SAJ14SAJ

@Cerberus if there is meaning in those combination of words, it escapes me.

Cerberus

And me.

At best, these writers are extraordinarily bad at expressing their ideas.

Then the first writer would, for example, have had to explain what he meant in at least 20 sentences instead of...this.

SAJ14SAJ

11:37 PM

One wonders if there is any meaning left if the obfuscation is removed.

Cerberus

Well, meaning is not contained in letters, but in the total of communication.

And it is a subjective experience, not an object.

SAJ14SAJ

Erm...

Cerberus

So I'm sure the author means something, but he cannot communicate it, because his text does not mean anything to me.

SAJ14SAJ

You are more generous than I am. I tend to think that they don't know what they think.

Cerberus

Now I don't understand what you mean.

> The Human–Computer Institute at Carnegie Mellon has found that your “passive consumption” of your friends’ feeds and your own “broadcasts to wider audiences” on Facebook correlate with feelings of loneliness and even depression. Earlier this year, two German universities showed that “passive following” on Facebook triggers states of envy and resentment in many users, with vacation photos standing out as a prime trigger.

SAJ14SAJ

11:46 PM

That first passage reminds me of the famous sentence "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously."

Cerberus

Yes, and that is on purpose, no doubt.

SAJ14SAJ

That sentence was specifically constructed to be completely self-contradictory, and without meaning, although it is grammatical.

Cerberus

Some people like paradoxes.

A paradox is not necessarily without meaning...but I hate it.

SAJ14SAJ

Well, actually it was to illustrate the separation of semantics and syntax... but the point is.... I cannot find any possible meaning in the quadruple negation of birth.

Cerberus

I have no idea what it is about either.

But perhaps that bit was explained in the previous chapter, who knows?

SAJ14SAJ

11:50 PM

Perhaps.

One never knows, do one?

Cerberus

> “If you see beautiful photos of your friend on Instagram,” she says, “one way to compensate is to self-present with even better photos, and then your friend sees your photos and posts even better photos, and so on. Self-promotion triggers more self-promotion, and the world on social media gets further and further from reality.”

I'm glad I don't really know what Instagram is.

SAJ14SAJ

"People compete for the best pictures on Instagram, and it is a self-perpetuating cycle leading to further separation from average real people". At least that is clear, if one infers that Instagram is some sort of photo posting whatchamathingy.

I don't do any of the social networks, except some light linked in, and SA.

Cerberus

@SAJ14SAJ Yeah.

> Each time you swipe through more images of people’s meals and soirees and renovation projects and holiday sunsets, you are potentially blurring the boundary between stranger-you-haven’t-met and sleazy voyeur skulking around the cabana with an iPhone.

I use Facebook, but not a lot.

I certainly don't log in every day.

I am on Linkedin, but I never ever use it.

No photo-sharing crap.

SAJ14SAJ

I actively avoid Facebook. I have never reddit. I dont pinterest anything. Or any of the others.

I post kitty pictures in chat here :-)

Cerberus

Yeah, well.

Only here!

SAJ14SAJ

11:55 PM